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Tim, Good post. thanks. I don't know what I can say though.
I experienced it differently. But your really positive – good on you – God bless you.
Hi Theodore.
I read about that. My family had an `awakening as to their Jewish roots a couple of years ago. The surname example of my Mother was really strange but nobody made the connection untill I googled it. Talk about blindness! Same with my Fathers side. They were all excited about it, but it didn't mean much to me at all. Not untill just recently.
So interesting though I'm feeling good getting back into all this.
Did you read the `Armstrong branches booklets and Magazines?
For All: I would ask a question to all. When we share the words of Jesus and the gospel of God unto salvation do we not tell the hearor, recognize Jesus(the word of God) as Lord, believe in our hearts(by faith) that he is raised from the dead and you are saved(sozo & soteria)! Thats, forgiven, healed, made whole, cleansed, sinfree, righteous and perfect unto God? Is that what we were told?
Is that what we pretty much tell others? Is that not what the gospel tells us? Is that not the free gift, received by faith from God through Jesus? Would that not be considered an instant, final judgment. If one is declared perfect by faith then how do works or deeds have anything to do with our salvation? Are you are cleansed by faith but become dirty by how you act? Is that truth to you.
Religion tell us these things. Dark leaders tell you that you are saved and whole BUT you better not do this or do that or say this or say that etc.! They need you or us to return week after week to pay our dues (money) to support their cause. Gods cause is you. God doesn't need your money at all. Only the physical, brick and mortar temple needs money to support. The spirit/body of Christ needs no money for support. Jesus told us to build the Temple and the Church and the house of God with spiritual words of truth from him, the very foundation.We have been once again deceived, lied to and tricked by high order darkness posing as light.
This is the day of the Lord. Every day, all day, 24/7,! This is the Sabbath day prophesied to come. The day of rest from works and deeds. This is the eternal day/light of Christ Jesus. This is the last day apart from God for those who accept the truth. The salvation of Jesus, the word of God, is the final judgment for each individual that accepts the truth in their heart. There is no judgment against the perfection created in Christ. Those alive in Christ are not judged again. Only the dead in sin and tresspassed is judged in the end. Now we enter the new spirit world of perfection unto God. IMO, TK
Tim, I see what you are saying, but I also believe that the new world will be a literal one, re-created for us to live in with him forever. You have some truths that I agree with. I believe that when you die you will find that the literal side to all of this is also true, in ways you or I cannot possibly comprehend. Love, Mark
Quote (Rena @ June 21 2011,23:07) Thats true Mark. I just noticed. About two years ago the Man emailing me was talking about Plankton dissapearing. There was nothing on the internet about it at the time. I just googled `Plankton dissapearing, and it's there, Plankton is dissapearing. (Google it).
(Have to go).
It's coming. Fear not. It's bad but it's also very, very good. IMHO it's like the angel in Revalation that gives the scroll to the man to eat and says “it will be sweet in your mouth, but it will turn your stomach sour” . It's gonna be bad, but I believe we will be sheltered. It's gonna be bad for those who hate God or deny him. Again, IMHO (I got that extra H from Theo, I like it) Love ya, MarkQuote (Rena @ June 22 2011,10:07) Hi Theodore. I read about that. My family had an `awakening as to their Jewish roots a couple of years ago. The surname example of my Mother was really strange but nobody made the connection untill I googled it. Talk about blindness! Same with my Fathers side. They were all excited about it, but it didn't mean much to me at all. Not untill just recently.
So interesting though I'm feeling good getting back into all this.
Did you read the `Armstrong branches booklets and Magazines?
Greetings Rena …. I have studied HWA extensively over many years… The confusion starts with the accepted written history that addresses all twelve tribes as “The Jews”…One only has to go to their own bible to see this erroneous assertion….The tribes of Judah,Levi and Benjimen made up the kingdom of Judah the remaining nine tribes made up the kingdom of Israel and biblical history shows that they fought each other on a regular basis…The first time the identity of Jew shows up in the book of kings….Jew … Tribal indentity Judah…In the seventh century BC the assyrians took the israelites captive and moved them from their land…There are several identifing factors throughout Europe that indicate tribal names Denmark…Mark of Dan…. Saxons ….Sons of Isaac and so on…If you look to Irish History this observation is supported…Rena …. Once we are able to grasp from whence we come (eg…Isrealites) biblical profesy comes alive and it is not to difficult to see that a large portion of it is yet to come and it speaks to the remnants of Israel and the readily identifiable tribes of Judah..
theodore: You say that a large portion of biblical profesy is yet to come! Jesus said (in four different books from four different authors) the law and the prophets(along with prophesy) were until John the Baptist. Who is correct, you or Jesus? TK
Hi Tim.
So what do you do with these verses,
Matthew 5:17
'Do not suppose that I came to throw down the law or the prophets — I did not come to throw down, but to fulfil; for, verily I say to you, till that the heaven and the earth may pass away, one iota or one tittle may not pass away from the law, till that all may come to pass. Whoever therefore may loose one of these commands — the least — and may teach men so, least he shall be called in the reign of the heavens, but whoever may do and may teach them, he shall be called great in the reign of the heavens.
'For I say to you, that if your righteousness may not abound above that of the scribes and Pharisees, ye may not enter to the reign of the heavens.
Quote (mikeangel @ June 23 2011,01:22) Quote (Rena @ June 21 2011,23:07) Thats true Mark. I just noticed. About two years ago the Man emailing me was talking about Plankton dissapearing. There was nothing on the internet about it at the time. I just googled `Plankton dissapearing, and it's there, Plankton is dissapearing. (Google it).
(Have to go).
It's coming. Fear not. It's bad but it's also very, very good. IMHO it's like the angel in Revalation that gives the scroll to the man to eat and says “it will be sweet in your mouth, but it will turn your stomach sour” . It's gonna be bad, but I believe we will be sheltered. It's gonna be bad for those who hate God or deny him. Again, IMHO (I got that extra H from Theo, I like it) Love ya, Mark
Mark, I remember having a really day one day and I prayed to Jesus to come, please… I meant it so much. It didn't happen! Some people say there will be a rapture and Gods people will be taken up AND THEN the bad thing's will start to happen – but I think this leaves believers unprepared, because I do believe we will have to go through it and it won't be easy, but it will be easier because we have God and we understand what is happening. Also we can explain to others what is happening and why.Love to you too Mark.
Hi Theodore.
I have found the Herbert Armstrong branches to be interesting. I used to love thier TV programes and I loved their booklets. I wanted to join a church. I found a local -ish one and asked by email if I could come along. But they said I needed to learn a bit more and had to agree with their beliefs first. Well, I agreed with most – at the time except one thing. And that was the millenium. I'm `amillenial. I don't believe in a thousand year millenium but that – when the day of the Lord comes then the new eternal kingdom will come. I also believe Satan has been or will soon be let lose to try and decieve the world one last time and that is now or soon. I believe the gospel of Jesus and the coming kingdom was spread throughout the world because Satan was “bound. So I disagreed with them on this point. I also heard they took a lot of money? something like 30% tithing but I could be wrong.
I admired them for giving away their books free, and DVDs.
With the tribes of Isreal, I don't know about this because I know theres also Ethiopian Jews, Jamaicans and others. I did read what you said about the Jews and the other tribes. I'm not to sure on it though. It is interesting.
Quote (Rena @ June 23 2011,12:00) Hi Tim. So what do you do with these verses,
Matthew 5:17
'Do not suppose that I came to throw down the law or the prophets — I did not come to throw down, but to fulfil; for, verily I say to you, till that the heaven and the earth may pass away, one iota or one tittle may not pass away from the law, till that all may come to pass. Whoever therefore may loose one of these commands — the least — and may teach men so, least he shall be called in the reign of the heavens, but whoever may do and may teach them, he shall be called great in the reign of the heavens.
'For I say to you, that if your righteousness may not abound above that of the scribes and Pharisees, ye may not enter to the reign of the heavens.
Rena: Matt.5:17..KJV…..Think not that I am come to destroy(stay in or “lodge” in, same grk. word when they went to town to find “lodging”) the law or the prophets: I am not come
to destroy(stay in) the law but to fulfill(complete) the law.V18…verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass(come together)(the union of man and Jesus) one jot or tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled/completed.
Has the sacrifice in the temple been removed? Has the temple itself changed from brick and mortar, man made to the human being made by God, that accepts and believes the truth?
V19…whosoever therefore shall break one one of these least commandments(Jesus broke washing rituals, sabbath work rituals and did not perform sacrifices) and shall teach men so(he taught his disciples the passing of the law), he shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven. (the least in the kingdom shall be called greatest)….
whosoever(those Jews he was talking to) shall do and teach (the law) shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. (they taught the law, they were great, the greatest is the least according to Jesus per the kingdom)….
The scribes and pharisees were never righteous under the law. The law could not make anyone perfect. So under the law man is lost from God and cannot enter God/heaven.
Very cleaver parable by Jesus to say what he wanted to say to the pharisees without being direct enough to cause a disturbance. IMO, TK[/U]
Quote (Rena @ June 23 2011,12:06) Quote (mikeangel @ June 23 2011,01:22) Quote (Rena @ June 21 2011,23:07) Thats true Mark. I just noticed. About two years ago the Man emailing me was talking about Plankton dissapearing. There was nothing on the internet about it at the time. I just googled `Plankton dissapearing, and it's there, Plankton is dissapearing. (Google it).
(Have to go).
It's coming. Fear not. It's bad but it's also very, very good. IMHO it's like the angel in Revalation that gives the scroll to the man to eat and says “it will be sweet in your mouth, but it will turn your stomach sour” . It's gonna be bad, but I believe we will be sheltered. It's gonna be bad for those who hate God or deny him. Again, IMHO (I got that extra H from Theo, I like it) Love ya, Mark
Mark, I remember having a really day one day and I prayed to Jesus to come, please… I meant it so much. It didn't happen! Some people say there will be a rapture and Gods people will be taken up AND THEN the bad thing's will start to happen – but I think this leaves believers unprepared, because I do believe we will have to go through it and it won't be easy, but it will be easier because we have God and we understand what is happening. Also we can explain to others what is happening and why.Love to you too Mark.
Hey Shimmer,I have been thinking about my book, and your comment. I think I will tell people as I am asked, but I don't think they will listen. Everybody is so ignorant and in complete denial. Not many care about the real truth anymore, they are much more comfortable with the lies that have tickled thier ears into believing everything is o/k and all we have to believe is everything is just fine, but it's not. My mindset is one like God told the hebrews when they were faced with war, he told them not to be afraid and have faith and he would fight for them. I'll let it go. My family is the best example of that to me. My mom denys the truth of what really is happening in the church, and not the apppearances. Theo pointed out that thier is already bunches of books on the subject, and mine would be one of many, and people would pay no attention to it. I need to “Give it to God” and let him handle it. Lately what tells me it can't be long is they legalized Gay marriage in New York yesterday. There are pictures of gay people making out in the streets celebrateing. Supporters are saying “People are finally listening to reason over faith”. It surely can't be long. The world has gone crazy and Satan is having a field day, and it seems people are all too eager to let him. Peace
Quote (Tim Kraft @ June 23 2011,06:43) theodore: You say that a large portion of biblical profesy is yet to come! Jesus said (in four different books from four different authors) the law and the prophets(along with prophesy) were until John the Baptist. Who is correct, you or Jesus? TK
Greetings Tim ….. The issue is what has been written and how it is interpreted…. Jesus came to full fill the law and to give credence (belief ) to the prophets….His ministry was a fullfillment of prophesy…The law has not changed,what has changed is the way man has interpreted it…I do not question the authority of the law nor the teachings of my savior….My effort is to understand and gleen the truth from the written word…My mind is open,My prayer is for wisdom, and I question teachings of men in an effort to prove all things….Quote (Rena @ June 23 2011,12:28) Hi Theodore. I have found the Herbert Armstrong branches to be interesting. I used to love thier TV programes and I loved their booklets. I wanted to join a church. I found a local -ish one and asked by email if I could come along. But they said I needed to learn a bit more and had to agree with their beliefs first. Well, I agreed with most – at the time except one thing. And that was the millenium. I'm `amillenial. I don't believe in a thousand year millenium but that – when the day of the Lord comes then the new eternal kingdom will come. I also believe Satan has been or will soon be let lose to try and decieve the world one last time and that is now or soon. I believe the gospel of Jesus and the coming kingdom was spread throughout the world because Satan was “bound. So I disagreed with them on this point. I also heard they took a lot of money? something like 30% tithing but I could be wrong.
I admired them for giving away their books free, and DVDs.
With the tribes of Isreal, I don't know about this because I know theres also Ethiopian Jews, Jamaicans and others. I did read what you said about the Jews and the other tribes. I'm not to sure on it though. It is interesting.
Greetings Rena ….. Iam not a member of the WCG,or any of its splinter organizations,although I have been known to support several of them…In principle the teachings of HWA are scriptual and for the most part proveable…As you know the Saturday Sabbath and the holy days have drawn much resistance from the established protestant and catholic churches….In concert they launched an effort to brand this organization as a cult…The requisites for this church seem some what demanding,but when you set back and think about it…what is purpose in bringing in members that oppose some of the basic core beliefs of their organization…Quote (theodorej @ June 27 2011,01:35) Quote (Tim Kraft @ June 23 2011,06:43) theodore: You say that a large portion of biblical profesy is yet to come! Jesus said (in four different books from four different authors) the law and the prophets(along with prophesy) were until John the Baptist. Who is correct, you or Jesus? TK
Greetings Tim ….. The issue is what has been written and how it is interpreted…. Jesus came to full fill the law and to give credence (belief ) to the prophets….His ministry was a fullfillment of prophesy…The law has not changed,what has changed is the way man has interpreted it…I do not question the authority of the law nor the teachings of my savior….My effort is to understand and gleen the truth from the written word…My mind is open,My prayer is for wisdom, and I question teachings of men in an effort to prove all things….
theodore: The same reason that there was a need for someone to come to earth with the truth is the reason the prophets fortold of the coming day/light. Man was lost in sin! Man was lost from the truth of God. Man had lost his way. The law could not make the worshippers clean. Why! The law was deeds to do or not do. That can never make a person clean before God.The day was coming. What day? The day of the lord, Jesus. What good was that day. The great and terrible day of the lord was coming. What good was that? Its a great day for the truth of God, the spirit truth coming to mankind through Jesus. Why? The truth of God/Spirit of truth will burn away the error/wrong thinking. At the same time the Truth will mend, cleanse, make whole, heal, save and give peace with God and man.
Going back to the law that didn't work before would be stupid!
The words of God through Jesus are our salvation today. The doctrines of God now are at peace. We are cleansed, made whole, forgiven, made worthy, and made righteous. Why go back to sin?
This is not about interpretation of the law. There is no law to interpret. Fulfillment is completion. The law is completed. The sacrifice is gone. If any part of the law is used today or if an part of the law is done away, one must honor the entire law.
Sacrifice is completely fulfilled for ever. IMO, TK
Tim,
I have to ask, and I am stupid so please make your answer as short as possible, I have a very short attention span, in addition to not knowing how to spell-
If you died today, what do you believe would happen to you? Where would you be in your opinion?
Sincerely= Mark
Quote (mikeangel @ June 27 2011,05:08) I have to ask, and I am stupid so please make your answer as short as possible, I have a very short attention span, in addition to not knowing how to spell-
Haha Mark, I could say the same about myself!
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