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Quote (Tim Kraft @ July 03 2011,05:13) Well Ed, I thought: Now the righteousness of God…without the law.. is manifested…Rom3:21….
Man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law…Rom3:28….
Rom4:15….the law worketh wrath: where there is no law there is no transgression/sin….
We are dead to the law by the body of Christ…Rom7:4…the law brought death…Rom7:6
…the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death…Rom8:2
Paul must have really missed it. It sounds to me like Paul thought the law was finished…for ye are not under the law but under grace…Rom6:14….The law was fulfilled and completed when Jesus came and finished the work of God expressing the truth.
If you follow any part of the law you must follow all of the law. Do you make animal sacrifices for atonement? The law of moses is an old religious held doctrine that will not stand against the truth of Jesus!
I welcome any information old or new that will uphold sin as something done rather than something believed. IMO, TK
Hi Tim,Do you pay attention to anything I say, Tim Kraft?
The Law is written for criminals; proving they are wrong.
Romans 5:13 For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.Rom.2:14-16 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law,
do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law,
are a law unto themselves: Which show the work of the law written in their hearts,
their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing
one another; In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.For this is the love of God, that we keep (The Law) his commandments: (1 John 5:3)
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
PS> Will you disregard theses verses as well, Tim Kraft?Hi Tim,
Will you disregard what (Shaool) the Apostle Paul says
unless you believe what he says fits into your agenda?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgEd: I disregard nothing. All truth must align. Jesus came for a reason or many reasons. One or the reasons Jesus came was to make mankind perfect(actually return them to their original perfection before they tainted their minds with lies) with the truth by faith. The law could not do what God did through Jesus. The perfection of mankind was not anything to do with deeds and acts or works.
There is no such thing as a “perfect walk” or “perfect way of life” or “perfect actions”! Perfection is in the mind/heart. To know who you really are, as a son of God one must believe what God has done “for us”. He gave us an example of how to live on planet earth. Jesus had complete control of his life. He came for a specific reason, to do the will of the Father. The will of the Father was to perfect, once and for all, the errant sin/error/condemning thinking of mankind. Perfected faith is to believe only, with no after thoughts,
wonders, negative thoughts etc.! When you recognize Christ, the annointing of God, IN YOU, in your mind/heart, just as it was in Jesus, you will begin to express and project the unlimited power of a son of God. Rooting out of the mind all “can't do's” and preconceived notions of how things work in physicality so to begin a life with unlimited ability of creation. Jesus didn't follow any law. Like you said,
following a law is for a criminal. A true son of God is far beyond rules and regulations for perfection. Rules or regulations will never and can never make one perfect in mind and heart. Only faith that God has done the work, for us, in creating perfection, can truly cleanse our minds/hearts. IMO, TK
Quote (Tim Kraft @ July 03 2011,21:07)
Ed: I disregard nothing. All truth must align.TK
Hi Tim,You do you agree then, that this verse, Rom.2:13 is “The Truth” of God?
Rom.2:13 For not the hearers of the law are just before God,
but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Or will you say differently?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Tim Kraft @ July 03 2011,21:07) Ed: There is no such thing as a “perfect walk” or “perfect way of life” or “perfect actions”!
IMO, TK
Hi Tim,Your thoughts appear to be in contradiction with Col.1:10;
can you explain why your thoughts are not in contradiction with Col.1:10?That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing,
being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God. (Col.1:10)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgEd: He is making reference about people that are under the law. If under the law, doers of the law shall be justified. This is a new day. We are no longer under the law. We are justified unto God by FAITH or not at all. Everything we are today was bought and paid for by Jesus and given from God to WHOSOEVER WILL BELIEVE!!
If you feel justified by the law you must follow every jot & tittle! You must sacrifice under the law. Or shall you pick and choose your way apart from the sacrifice. If Jesus fulfilled the sacrifice of the law he fulfilled all of the law. TK
Quote (Tim Kraft @ July 03 2011,21:43) Ed: He is making reference about people that are under the law. If under the law, doers of the law shall be justified. This is a new day. We are no longer under the law. We are justified unto God by FAITH or not at all. Everything we are today was bought and paid for by Jesus and given from God to WHOSOEVER WILL BELIEVE!! If you feel justified by the law you must follow every jot & tittle! You must sacrifice under the law. Or shall you pick and choose your way apart from the sacrifice. If Jesus fulfilled the sacrifice of the law he fulfilled all of the law. TK
Hi Tim,This is Romans Chapter two's heading…
Those who sin cannot excuse themselves, or escape the judgment of God.Do you 'think' you don't have to follow God's law?
Sin is the transgression of the law. (1John 3:4)
I have listed God's laws for you, Tim Kraft…1) Thou shalt have none other gods before JEHOVAH.
2) Thou shalt not make thee any graven image.
3) Thou shalt not take the name of JEHOVAH thy God in vain.
4) Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as JEHOVAH thy God hath commanded you.
5) Honor thy father and thy mother.
6) Thou shalt not kill.
7) Thou shalt not commit adultery.
8) Thou shalt not steal.
9) Thou shalt not Lie.
10) Thou shalt not covet .The Lord(JEHOVAH) is well pleased for his(Jesus) righteousness' sake;
he(Jesus) will magnify the law, and make it honorable. (Isaiah 42:21)Your words seem to be in contradiction with Matt.19:16-19 and Isaiah 42:21,
can you explain how 'your thoughts' are not in contradiction with Matt.19:16-19?Matthew 19:16-19 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master,
what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him,
Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou will
enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou
shall do no murder(#6), Thou shall not commit adultery(#7), Thou shall not steal(#8), Thou
shall not bear false witness(#9), Honor thy father and thy mother(#5): and, Thou shalt love
thy neighbor as thyself(#10).Hey Ed,
Seeing the ten commandments, and you using Gods name Jehovah, reminded me of this video. I know I have witnessed on here how bad Memphis is spiritually, and how “the King” title means much more than people realize,and I know ya'll are problibly sick of hearing me go on and on, but I wanted to show you something I think would even make you raise an eyebrow. In this video, there is a picture of the Statue of Liberty in front of a church, holding a cross and having been chained at the ankle. That is way out wacko to me in itself. #2 commandment above to me is definately transgressed here, because as I mentioned before The Statue of Liberty is actually the Roman Goddess “Libertas”. Well, the guy that works for me lives right behind this church On Winchester in Memphis, Tn, and I pick him up and drop him off every day. One day, He asked me “Have you ever noticed the letters in the crown?” and I started looking. A few days later, when the sun was right, I saw them. Those people actually put “Jehovah” across the crown of that statue. It must be the last days. I think sooner or later something bad is going to happen to this church. PeaceCheck it out. In this video, at 1:04, if you look over the eye on your right, you can see the h. and as God lives it says Jehovah.
Ed: As you told me before, the law is for criminals of which I am not. God has made me who I am and I rest in that perfection. I was lost in sin/wrong thinking. Now I am found. God saved me from those evil beliefs with his words through Jesus. Now I am clean. Never will I return to 'thinking' I am in sin. It was taken away by the truth from God.I have no sin! Jesus took away my sin. If I were to agree with you and say I did have sin, then I would have a sin consciousness and be separated from God. You and others say they sin or have sin.
For that I am sorry. I have no sin which creates peace within, and thanksgiving in my heart for my lord Jesus who gave me this truth. I am thankful also that no liars, or deceivers can take away the truth given to me from God. You can declare yourself under a law or the law or under sin or unclean or evil. But nobody can place me under any law that my Father has taken from me.
If Jesus died for our sin and thereby took away our sin, then what would there be a law for? The truth is here, sin is irradicated and gone. There would be reason for any law. Perfection is come from Gods spirit words, through Jesus. I need no one else.
So believe and be comfortable in whatever way you choose. If I believed that I needed a law to follow for perfection unto God I would feel like I completely denied Jesus and his work. This is my truth and nobody can taint it with lies or take it away!! TK
Quote (Tim Kraft @ July 04 2011,21:35) Ed: As you told me before, the law is for criminals of which I am not. God has made me who I am and I rest in that perfection. I was lost in sin/wrong thinking. Now I am found. God saved me from those evil beliefs with his words through Jesus. Now I am clean. Never will I return to 'thinking' I am in sin. It was taken away by the truth from God.I have no sin! Jesus took away my sin. If I were to agree with you and say I did have sin, then I would have a sin consciousness and be separated from God. You and others say they sin or have sin. For that I am sorry. I have no sin which creates peace within, and thanksgiving in my heart for my lord Jesus who gave me this truth. I am thankful also that no liars, or deceivers can take away the truth given to me from God. You can declare yourself under a law or the law or under sin or unclean or evil. But nobody can place me under any law that my Father has taken from me.
If Jesus died for our sin and thereby took away our sin, then what would there be a law for? The truth is here, sin is irradicated and gone. There would be reason for any law. Perfection is come from Gods spirit words, through Jesus. I need no one else.
So believe and be comfortable in whatever way you choose. If I believed that I needed a law to follow for perfection unto God I would feel like I completely denied Jesus and his work. This is my truth and nobody can taint it with lies or take it away!! TK
Greetings Tim ….. The law is NOT for criminals it is judgement that is for criminals…. It is really very simple and certainly not challenging to see the purpose of the law and why it is a necessary dicipline….In order to participate and enjoy an uncomplicated life….understanding where the law fits in is key…God has a plan,that he wants all of us to be part of,and that is to live in eternity in his presense…Since our creation we were gifted with the freedom to choose in this case it is right living or wrong living…In order that we be able to discern the difference between the two,God in his infinite wisdom coupled with his never ending love for us gave us the LAW, and in his word he plainly says that this law will stand from” Generation to Generation even unto FOREVER…”Sin is the transgression of the law” and we all sin…The Eternal recognized our carnality and weekness for the temptations of the world and for that reason he had mercy on us all and gave us a savior or an advocate by which we as sinners can approach the throne of God and beg forgiveness….Jesus is that savior ,he is very much alive in the hearts of true believers…During his ministry he plainly said “I DID NOT COME TO CHANGE THE LAW,BUT TO FULL FILL IT”….What I can't understand is this, What scriptual authority does the many facited multiconfusing so called christian churches dismiss something that God Almighty plainly says is FOREVER….theo: What I can't understand is how anyone could read the Bible and not be aware of the total change that was to come with Jesus. All of the law and all the prophets told of the great day of the lord to come. Jesus said that was him. He said they all testify of me. So Jesus comes and completely changes religious order unto God, the temple changed, the sacrifices, the washings(he never followed) actually he didn't follow the law at all. One cannot follow what one is the completion and fulfillment of.
Everything changed because the old way was lost in sin and could not find the truth of God. Why wasn't the law doing its thing? If the law could not make worshipers perfect then what good was it? I thought the law led us to Christ If the law created perfection and forgiveness of sin why did Jesus need to come? The sacrifices of bulls and goats could not do the work intended. If it did, why a new day. What about the righteous men and prophets that were before the law of Moses. Weren't they made righteous by faith in God.
God was always in man. He can't leave man because he is everywhere.God is mans life source. Man mentally left God by believing incorrectly/wrong thinking/sin. He believed his way apart from God. He made up rules, and do's and don'ts that if one did them they were sinners and separated from God.Then they broke their rules and believed they were in sin. God is your life force. God is your mind. God is you breath. You live in your body with God. If you subdue your “self” and take on God then you are one. Not two but one. Mental alignment is submitting your self to God. YOU CANNOT DO ENOUGH GOOD WORKS OR DEEDS TO BE ACCEPTABLE TO GOD. Your relationship with God is in the mind/heart.What is the truth? We accept Jesus words for our cleansing, healing and total salvation. What are we saved from? Are we saved from sin? Did Jesus take away the sin of the world? What was the sin? He didn't take away works. He took away darkness, wrong thinking, error of thinking, sin!!
The law of moses is not really any different than the doctrines of most all chruches. When Jesus spoke of the law he was answering questions to the Jews, the scribes, religious hierarchy. His answers were directed at the law. He wasn't confirming the law he was saying that under that type of rules and regulations no one is perfected. Rules and regulations don't cleanse the inside/heart. They only show on the outside for peers to see and gratify you with.
Tell me, how is it that you come to God? Is it by hearing with faith? Tell the truth, if it is hearing by faith then you could only fall away from God by unbelief. You can't come by faith and fall away by works. Can you work your way to Gods grace and salvation? Will good deeds save you and make you whole? We both know that answer. If good works don't save you then bad works don't condemn you!! Physical works have nothing to do with establishing a relationship with God.
Lastly Theo, in my opinion, anyone who in this day does not believe that God has entirely saved them, is denying the work of Jesus. Anyone who believes they sin or believes they are in sin, is denying that Jesus saved them from sin and took away the sin of mankind.
Any who does not believe that they are cleansed by Jesus words from God, and believe they are perfected unto God by Gods own declaration, denies the work of Jesus, denies his words and is mentally separated from the love and power of God. Its a choice, IMO, TKGreetings Tim ….. Every time I open the Bible I learn something new….The ministry of Jesus clearly adhered to the Law with respect to the commandments one of corner stones of his teachings clarified the commandments and seperated them as they apply to the eternal and as they apply to men…He summed up the commandments that apply to men as, the greatest commandment is, that we love one another as he loves us,this did not deminish or eliminate it clarifies the purpose…The law of Moses is much more complex than the Law Of God (ten Commandments / Torah)…Tim I am denying the ministry of Jesus, however Iam a carnal sinning human being who needs salvation…If Iam saved now,what am I saved from???
Quote (Tim Kraft @ July 04 2011,21:35) Ed: As you told me before, the law is for criminals of which I am not. God has made me who I am and I rest in that perfection. I was lost in sin/wrong thinking. Now I am found. God saved me from those evil beliefs with his words through Jesus. Now I am clean. Never will I return to 'thinking' I am in sin. It was taken away by the truth from God.I have no sin! Jesus took away my sin. If I were to agree with you and say I did have sin, then I would have a sin consciousness and be separated from God. You and others say they sin or have sin. For that I am sorry. I have no sin which creates peace within, and thanksgiving in my heart for my lord Jesus who gave me this truth. I am thankful also that no liars, or deceivers can take away the truth given to me from God. You can declare yourself under a law or the law or under sin or unclean or evil. But nobody can place me under any law that my Father has taken from me.
If Jesus died for our sin and thereby took away our sin, then what would there be a law for? The truth is here, sin is irradicated and gone. There would be reason for any law. Perfection is come from Gods spirit words, through Jesus. I need no one else.
So believe and be comfortable in whatever way you choose. If I believed that I needed a law to follow for perfection unto God I would feel like I completely denied Jesus and his work. This is my truth and nobody can taint it with lies or take it away!! TK
Hi Tim,The reason Ed J is perfect is because I do no sin.
(Heb.8:10) I will put my laws into their mind,
and write them (my laws) in their hearts.This is further exemplified by 1John 5:18…
Whosoever is born of God sinneth not.Do you have a guilty conscience to say…
Quote If I were to agree with you and say I did have sin, then I would have a sin consciousness and be separated from God.
Are you currently breaking any of God's commandments? If you are breaking any of God's commandments then this verse applies to you…Quote 1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH! (Psalm 45:17)
117=יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org …(Eccl.9:12-16)Hi Tim, here is what I said…
Quote (Ed J @ July 03 2011,07:46) The Law is written for criminals; proving they are wrong. And here is what you said…
Quote (Tim Kraft @ July 04 2011,21:35) Ed: As you told me before, the law is for criminals YOU removed the word “WRITTEN”, in
an attempt to change what I have written.
Do you not see how you changed what I said?Hi Theodore J,
Thanks for trying to explain to Tim why it was necessary for God to write the law in
the first covenant, and why God wrote the law in our heart in the second covenant.Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Tim Kraft @ July 04 2011,23:18) theo: What I can't understand is how anyone could read the Bible and not be aware of the total change that was to come with Jesus.
Hi Tim,The change was first recorded in Jer.31.31-33, and later recorded by the (Shaool) Apostle Paul in Hebrews 8:10;
why is the change so hard for you to grasp, Tim Kraft?Jer 31:31-33 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel,
and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I
took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I
was an husband unto them, saith the Lord: But this shall be the covenant that I (YHVH) will make with
the house of Israel; After those days, saith [The LORD JEHOVAH], I (YHVH) will put my law in their
inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days,
saith the LORD; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts:
and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people.Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH! (Psalm 45:17)
117=יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org …(Eccl.9:12-16)Ed: I my honest opinion there are so many things wrong with the religious belief of a continuing “law of Moses” that there is not enough room or time for me to point them out. You have your belief in the law. I do not believe the law of moses is in the new testament. I follow Jesus and I guess you follow the law of Moses and Jesus and mix the old and new. It doesn't matter. This matter is closed for me. Lets move on to much deeper things of God. This is grade 1 for me! If you feel you have won the disagreement, so be it. Don't let animal control find out about your sacrificing of animals! Thats against the law today! TK
Hi Tim,
This is NOT about the law of Moses! (2Cor.3:15)
This “IS” about “The Law” of God. (1John 5:2)Why are you having so much trouble distinguishing the difference?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
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