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Level I: Preconventional Moral Reasoning
Emphasis is placed on getting rewards and avoiding punishments, this is a self-centered level.-Stage 1) Might makes right (a punishment and obedience orientation). The most important value is obedience to authority, avoiding punishment while still advancing self-interest. Don't get caught!
-Stage 2) Look out for number one (an instrumental and relativist orientation). Each person tries to take care of his or her own needs. The reason to be nice to other people is so they will be nice to you.
Level II: Conventional Moral Reasoning
Emphasis is placed on social rules; this is a community centered level.-Stage 3) “Good girl” and “nice boy.” Proper behavior is behavior that pleases other people. Social approval is more important than any specific reward.
-Stage 4) “Law and Order.” Proper behavior means being a dutiful citizen and obeying the laws set down by society. Even when no police officer is nearby, obey the law.
Level III: Postconventional Moral Reasoning
Emphasis is placed on moral priciples; this level is centered on ideals.-Stage 5) Social Contract. Obey social rules because they benefit everyone and they are established by mutual agreement. If the rules become destructive or if one party doesn't live up to the agreement, the contract is no longer binding. Under some circumstances, disobeying the law is moral.
-Stage 6) Universal Ethical Principles. General universal principles, not individual situations [level one] or community practices [level two], determine right and wrong. Ethical values [such as “life is sacred”] are established by individual reflection and may contradict egocentric [level one] or legal [level two] values.
Hi Stu,
Thanks for the morals thing.
Imagine what the Spirit of God could do.Gal5
18But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Kohlberg's ideas come from his research on the development of ethical thinking in 10 to 16 year old boys. His model is one of people moving up the stages by a process of discussion with others who are on different stages, generally no more than one step away. He also concluded that meaningful communication on ethical issues between people on widely different stages would be virtually impossible.
Many years ago I was involved in a short course that showed how Kohlberg classified people by the development of their ethical reasoning. The class was chiefly composed of recent university graduates. I was curious then about where Kohlberg would have placed those of different shades of religious belief. As it turned out most of that class were at stage 4, with a few at 3 and some at 5, as might be expected for a cohort like that. Those of mainstream Protestant or Catholic belief were little different from those who professed no religion. There were 2 or 3 fundamentalist christians there but we never found out where they placed because by the third session they had all left the course. They simply found themselves unwilling or unable to express their moral reasoning, and would just suffer frustration that they seemed not to be able to express. The course teacher had even predicted as much at the start. If Kohlberg is right, fundamentalists must be at stage 1 or 2. If they were at stage 6 they would be able to articulate their reasoning and communicate at least with those at stage 5. The description of 'concern for self' attributed to Level 1 would seem to fit the attitudes towards others displayed by those here who are fundamentalist in their outlook.
This anarchist website, in it's politically coloured way, asserts that fundamentalists are stuck at the first level:
http://a4a.mahost.org/moral.htmlThis abstract of a study expresses the conclusion that there is a negative correlation between socially conservative religious belief and the level of ethical reasoning they exhibit:
http://links.jstor.org/sici?si….O%3B2-GThere is no absolute guarantee that this is an accurate means of classifying human reaction but it is telling that it made a prediction and had a theoretical basis for it.
Stuart
Quote Imagine what the Spirit of God could do.
Stage 1.Quote Gal5
18But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Stage 4.Quote 19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Stage 1.Quote 22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Stage 2.Quote 23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Stage 3?Stuart
Hi KJ,
So level 4 is your ideal of human behaviour? I think many of the world would agree with you.
But the simple kind and helpful ways that nurture society do not seem to be there.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 29 2008,16:54) Hi KJ,
So level 4 is your ideal of human behaviour? I think many of the world would agree with you.
But the simple kind and helpful ways that nurture society do not seem to be there.
Stage 6 is the apex, according to Kohlberg. I tested at stage 5 all those years ago and I don't know to what extent I have progressed since.As a person at Stage 5 perhaps I could reason that kindness and helping others are a priority because we all agree that it is the right thing to do, even if doing a particular kindness for someone turns out to be illegal (or unscriptural for that matter).
At stage 6 it could be that you reason that kindness is just the right thing to show and helping others a principle on which everyone should base their actions. I think I might tend toward that reasoning a bit more than I used to.
Stuart
As kejonn has not posted here I have assumed you mean Hi Stu.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 29 2008,18:35) Hi KJ,
It could just be that your kindness could extend to the brothers of Christ.
God blesses that.
That's stage 2.Stuart
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 29 2008,20:11) Hi Stu,
So what is better than kindness?
You are best to read:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kohlberg%27s_stages_of_moral_development
Especially the section on moral dilemmas.
Stuart
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 29 2008,20:44) Hi Stu,
Kindness solves most dilemmas.
Do you need lots of reference books to remain atheistic?
Nick it is not 'kindness' itself that is the focus, it is the reasons you give why showing kindness is the right thing to do. Why do you show kindness?Stuart
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 28 2008,23:54) Hi KJ,
So level 4 is your ideal of human behaviour? I think many of the world would agree with you.
But the simple kind and helpful ways that nurture society do not seem to be there.
Is there a stage for people who constantly get confused on who they are talking to? Or is Nick attempting to insult again?BTW, I am not insulted, I just think it is funny that Nick is so easily confused.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 29 2008,01:35) Hi KJ,
It could just be that your kindness could extend to the brothers of Christ.
God blesses that.
And once again…
.I wonder if anyone has ever done a study on the correlation of Alzheimer's and Fundamentalism?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 30 2008,07:52) Hi Stu,
Is not kindness it's own reward?
Absolutely. No need to fear a god to be kind. But if you want to discuss kindness, why don't you start a thread for it?Stuart
Hmmm. It was me who missed the point there, actually.
Your reason for kindness is the intrinsic reward that comes as a result. Do you have any other reasoning for showing kindness?
Stuart
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