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Hi Nick.
Death is death, first, second, third, fourth… If you are saved from death, does it matter how many?Blessings.
Hi CO,
Is everyone already saved but not many appreciate the fact, and it is advantageous to be aware and grateful, but it does not really matter and can all just carry on sinning anyway?Hi Nick.
GOD HAS A GOAL*
by Adolph E. Knoch
GOD HAS A GOAL. He intends to become All in all His creatures (1 Cor.15:28). He will accomplish this by way of reconciling all His enemies by the blood of Christ's cross, by justifying, vivifying, and saving all mankind at the consummation (Col.1:20; Rom.5:18; 1 Cor.15:22; 1 Tim 2:4; 4:10). But before this there is a long and painful preparatory process, a weary way which leads His creatures to this consummation, much of which is as dark and distressing as the goal is bright and filled with blessing.Almost all of us are short-sighted. We see a part of the way but we do not see the end. We confuse the going with the goal. Our translations are partly to blame, for they fail to clearly mark the fleeting nature of the process, as it is in the original. And if an honest attempt is made to carry this across in a concordant version, it clashes with our conventions and our hard hearts. God grant that we may faithfully witness, in our renderings, when God reveals a fact, and when it is only a temporary process, for this He has clearly indicated in the original.
Judgment is God's strange work. He uses it on the way. Men make it the end. No matter how an unbeliever is dealt with, whether he dies as a result of sin, or by the direct intervention of God, whether he be cast into outer darkness or into Gehenna, this is not his end. All who do not belong to Christ will be roused from the dead and judged before the great white throne. There they are not forgiven, or saved, but judged. But this is not their end. All these will be cast into the lake of fire, to suffer the second death. Even this is not their end. God does not reach His goal in any of His disciplinary measures. These only prepare His creatures for it. Let us not confuse the going with the goal.
Very little is said to us about God's goal until Paul completes the orbit of God's Word with his later revelations. Hints there have always been by which hearts in tune with God have been filled with high hopes. But it is not until the meridian sun of God's grace has come from behind the clouds of sin and law, to reveal the deepest recesses of God's immanent love to the most undeserving of the race, it is not until the truth for the present was made known that God tore aside the veil of the future completely, and gave us a clear and unclouded view of His ultimate. Once we revel in this we will never go back to previous revelation on this theme, for like the curtain of the tabernacle, it seems to hide, rather than reveal the full blaze of the Shekinah glory.
The usual way is to view the goal in the darkness of the way. We go back to passages which deal with judgments and allow them to throw their dark shadows across the consummation. We should believe that God will justify all mankind (Rom.5:18), and view the previous judgments in the light of this final achievement. We bring up passages which tell of death, to darken God's declaration that it will be abolished. We should believe that God will make death inoperative at the last, and view the previous passages in this glorious light. We turn to texts which prove that unbelievers will be lost or destroyed, and, with these passages, dim the great declaration that God wills the salvation of all. We should illumine them with the later and higher revelation. We find God's enemies in the fiery lake at what seems to be the close of revelation, and misuse this fact to deny God's declaration that all will be reconciled (Col.1:20). We should not take one to destroy the other, but believe both, for reconciliation follows estrangement, and it alone accords with God's final goal.
How perverse and blind have we often been! When God says all, we have said some. When God speaks of a very small fraction of mankind, such as the living nations who stand before Christ to be judged according to their treatment of Israel–a mere handful as compared with all mankind–then we extend their sentence to all! Faith has almost fled from the earth. What calls itself faith is mostly a masquerade, for it refuses God's Word for the traditions of men, yet insists that it is genuine.
Let us allow the light of the latest revelation to illumine the earlier, partial unfolding, and let us not use the earlier to eclipse the latest, the highest, and the only complete unveiling of God's mind and heart.
Why should we be Jonahs, sitting under our withered gourd, furious because God does not fulfill the word which we have proclaimed. What about the truthfulness of God's Word? Must it not be upheld? Would it not make God a liar if He repented and did not overturn Nineveh in forty days? The idea that God has a heart as well as a mouth, and had compassion on the creatures He had made was heresy in Jonah's eyes. Are we not far worse than Jonah? He actually had to take back God's express declaration. We need only retract our own false inferences from it, dictated by a heart altogether out of harmony with His loving goal, which our dim eyes have failed to discern, even though it is written in letters of gold across the horizon of the far off future, and is clearly visible to every heart which has been humbled by His grace, and which beats in unison with His love. God grant that we are no Jonahs!
[*Originally an untitled Editorial in January 1935 Unsearchable Riches]
© Concordant Publishing Concern
——————————————————————————–Hi Adolf,
You say
'GOD HAS A GOAL. He intends to become All in all His creatures (1 Cor.15:28). He will accomplish this by way of reconciling all His enemies by the blood of Christ's cross, by justifying, vivifying, and saving all mankind at the consummation (Col.1:20; Rom.5:18; 1 Cor.15:22; 1 Tim 2:4; 4:10).1Cor 15
” 22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
[So this appllies only to those reborn into Christ-not surprising as the letter was addressed to them]24Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
[Enemies are put under his feet and his rule established-better to be safe in him]26The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. “
So order is established in creation and those in Christ are unified in him under God.
His enemies are entirely another story.Col1.
” 20And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.21And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
23If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;”
So again this was written to the saints who were once alienanted from God and have been reconciled with Him will see this newly established order in all creation. Some remain enemies of God.
Rom 5.
15But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.16And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
17For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
18Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Written to the saints in Rome MANY will accept this gift among humanity but ALL do not feature here.
1Tim 2
” 1I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;2For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
3For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
7Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not;) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.
8I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.
9In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
10But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
11Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
15Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.”
Just as all women will not find salvation through childbearing neither will the gracious offer of God be accepted by all.
1Tim4
” 6If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.7But refuse profane and old wives' fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness.
8For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come.
9This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation.
10For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.”
Indeed God is the saviour of all those who do respond and the brethren ought listen and not refuse to offer that saving gospel to all men leaving the response of the remnant to God.
Hi Nick.
I didn't see your last statement, “Indeed God is the savior of all those that respond and…..” in any of the scripture you quoted, please give the scripture that included this.Blessings.
Hi CO,
Your expurgated version of the NT does not include the invitation of gentiles to be reborn yet you offer then preferential entry over the Jews and then apply all the writings of the apostles to the saved to them.
By whose authority?Hi Nick.
I can't recall giving any (expurgated?) “version” of the NT, I only quoted scripture. Is that not enough?Blessings.
Hi Nick.
Please quote any posting of mine you read, that you feel was in a “questionably discriminate fashion”, that I may defend myself. A general accusation like yours needs exact details, otherwise it is useless.Blessings.
Hi CO,
You say the gospel are written only for the Jews?
Then you apply the teachings of the apostles to all men?
Have I misunderstood you?Hi Nick.
You may have. Jesus' teaching was to the Jews, under the “law”, and the “Old Covanent”. In that generation the Gentiles were apart from God, not included. All scripture is FOR us, but not ABOUT us. We are to learn the total history of Gods ways with all mankind, but in the proper context. The Jews were Gods “chosen people”, and would inherit the “Kingdom” with Christ the King if they would obey the “law” and fulfill the covenant with God. This they could not do. When their Messiah arrived, they rejected and murdered Him. After His resurrection, the Kingdom was reoffered and rejected still. God then set them aside and turned to the Nations (Gentiles). After the fullness of time concludes with the gentiles, the Jews will again be in favour with God when He makes a “New covenant” with them. (Heb.8:8-12) They will reign with Christ as a nation of “priests and kings” for the millenium.
This is my understanding of scripture, I may be mistaken in some parts, I am only human, led by the spirit of God. I firmly believe in applying the scripture “All is of God” and “God is operating ALL according to thr council of His will”, when trying to understand Gods ways according to scripture.
Only Pauls epistles are for us during this time, this incudes the believing Jews and Gentiles.God Bless.
Quote (chosenone @ May 25 2007,07:09) Hi Nick.
You may have. Jesus' teaching was to the Jews, under the “law”, and the “Old Covanent”. In that generation the Gentiles were apart from God, not included. All scripture is FOR us, but not ABOUT us. We are to learn the total history of Gods ways with all mankind, but in the proper context. The Jews were Gods “chosen people”, and would inherit the “Kingdom” with Christ the King if they would obey the “law” and fulfill the covenant with God. This they could not do. When their Messiah arrived, they rejected and murdered Him. After His resurrection, the Kingdom was reoffered and rejected still. God then set them aside and turned to the Nations (Gentiles). After the fullness of time concludes with the gentiles, the Jews will again be in favour with God when He makes a “New covenant” with them. (Heb.8:8-12) They will reign with Christ as a nation of “priests and kings” for the millenium.
This is my understanding of scripture, I may be mistaken in some parts, I am only human, led by the spirit of God. I firmly believe in applying the scripture “All is of God” and “God is operating ALL according to thr council of His will”, when trying to understand Gods ways according to scripture.
Only Pauls epistles are for us during this time, this incudes the believing Jews and Gentiles.God Bless.
Hi CO,
So only Jews will be raised in the millenium?
So Heb 4 is only written to the Jews?What of Cornelius and the other gentiles blessed with the Spirit of eternal life?
You say the letters of Paul are for US and to you that means ALL UNSAVED MEN thus denying what he wrote?
How can unsaved men be helped by the wisdom of God which needs the eyes of the Spirit to be read?
Hi Nick.
Question 1. The Jews will reign in the millenium, a nation of priests and kings.
2. Hebrews is written ABOUT the Jews, but all scripture is FOR us.
3. ?
4. Yes, Paul for the Nations. I didn't say what you said it means to me.
5. I don't know.Blessings.
Quote (chosenone @ May 25 2007,18:47) Hi Nick.
Question 1. The Jews will reign in the millenium, a nation of priests and kings.
2. Hebrews is written ABOUT the Jews, but all scripture is FOR us.
3. ?
4. Yes, Paul for the Nations. I didn't say what you said it means to me.
5. I don't know.
Blessings.
Hi CO,
1Peter 2
“Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings,
2As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:3If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
4To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
5Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
6Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
7Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
9But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
10Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
11Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;
12Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.”
Rev 20
“4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. “
So you would say these too are written solely for the Jews?
You have yet to give any indication as to who is in the US and how they can know they are.Hi Nick.
Yes, the above scripture you wrote is to the Jews, but for all to read. All scripture is FOR us, but not all is ABOUT us. We need to read all of Gods ways with mankind, but He deals differently with all.Blessings.
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