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Quote (Is 1:18 @ Jan. 21 2008,17:58) high position? elaborate.
The stronger brother is to uphold the weaker brother.I don;t think you've been reading my posts Mandy, how many times do I have say this….
“I just think Ken wanted you to convince you of the real Yeshua, but didn't know how to go about it. In his approach he got it wrong.“
I'm not going to argue with you, Paul. Yes, you said that you believe he got is wrong in his approach, but you have also said other things in the past few posts that lead me to believe you think although he got it wrong in his appraoch – it was harmless – or he did it out of care for me and so on……blah, blah, blah. So ya, I hear you. I just don't agree with everything your saying. So, I'll drop it.
A dead horse can't get anymore dead tho you beat it.
Tell you what Mandy. Let's turn this into something constructive. You have been struggling with all these big questions apparently, and no one has been giving you the christian perspective. What is, in your opinion, the single biggest bulleye Towshab hit on here? What error has he highlighted that has struck a blow to the foudations of you faith and led you to question the validity of christianity or the Bible? I'll do my best to answer it. If I can't maybe someone else can.
Goodness. Well, I guess I would have to say that he has drawn some pretty good pictures of what the OT says the Messiah should be like; what the OT predicts that the Messiah should fulfill, and Jesus has come-up short. Most have said that certain prophesies will only be fulfilled in Jesus' second coming – but in the OT there is NO talk of a “second coming” for the Messsiah. That has confused me and made me doubt.
You know what? If you're serious about having this discussion, maybe we should move over to the CONFUSED (logic of Jesus) thread for others benefit as well? What do you think? Or there are othe threads like “The Real King Messiah” and that would be a good one to add this to? Thanks!
t8 Even tho Ken upset some with His behavior, I find it not right, that He had to go, while Stu and Tow who caused all of this are still allowed to post. I read what you said to others and disagree with that. Ken was a member for over 3 years, and why is He gone. He P.M. me many times because He was very much concerned about Mandy. I know that it was somewhat stressful for Mandy, but He did that to me too, and now He is behaving just fine with me. All Mandy had to do is tell Him what He wanted to hear if She had denied Jesus or not. She left Him hanging there. No offence intended Mandy. Am I going to be next, because I disagree with Tow and Stu? And Mandy is still questioning about Jesus as you can see what She wants to do with Is.1:18. I find everything somewhat uneven. Tell you the truth, If I had a website no Atheist would be allowed to post. Have you ever asked yourself this question why is He here? Certainly not to make friends with Christians. He is here to upset them. That I would not allow.
Peace and Love MrsIM4Truth
Quote (seek and you will find @ Jan. 21 2008,19:13) She left Him hanging there. No offence intended Mandy
No, I'm sure you didn't mean any offense, but you also are not totally aware of everything Ken put me through either.I deserved his abuse because “I left him hanging there”? I'm not even going to reply to this.
As to what I'm doing with Isaiah……..pay closer attention, Mrs. – instead of being a spoon and stiring the pot! You may learn something!
Amanda Don't worry i will pay attention, will I learn something, if it is good, I am more then willing to change. But I will not deny Jesus. He is my Savior and my King, King of Kings and Lord of Lords.
Peace and Love Mrs.
Quote (seek and you will find @ Jan. 21 2008,19:13) t8 Even tho Ken upset some with His behavior, I find it not right, that He had to go, while Stu and Tow who caused all of this are still allowed to post. I read what you said to others and disagree with that. Ken was a member for over 3 years, and why is He gone. He P.M. me many times because He was very much concerned about Mandy. I know that it was somewhat stressful for Mandy, but He did that to me too, and now He is behaving just fine with me. All Mandy had to do is tell Him what He wanted to hear if She had denied Jesus or not. She left Him hanging there. No offence intended Mandy. Am I going to be next, because I disagree with Tow and Stu? And Mandy is still questioning about Jesus as you can see what She wants to do with Is.1:18. I find everything somewhat uneven. Tell you the truth, If I had a website no Atheist would be allowed to post. Have you ever asked yourself this question why is He here? Certainly not to make friends with Christians. He is here to upset them. That I would not allow. Peace and Love MrsIM4Truth
Ken shouldn't force people into confessions.He shouldn't force anyone to do anything. He should have won people to Christ.
To do anything under compulsion has no reward.
2 Corinthians 9:7
Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.If someone put a gun to your head and said “say I love God”, would that make the person love God? Of course not. Jesus never forced confessions out of anyone and Ken's behaviour is a type of violence, albeit in a virtual world.
Remember that he was banned not because of his doctrine or his concern, but his behaviour. I think that too many people are too quick to forget this.
If there are no rules here, then the forums would just turn into an abuse-fest and I think that some would love that to happen.
I have had to ban a few members in the past who (like Ken) demanded that everything be done their way. E.g., there use to be a member here who tried to stop everyone from saying “God” as that word according to him had pagan origins. He use to get upset and harass people over this issue. It would have been OK in the appropriate discussion, but he brought this baggage to every discussion and the result was the discussions couldn't progress.
Ken was similar and these forums were not created for such people to tell others what to do. Rather they are here so that we can check to see if what people believe is written and true.
It is not about harassing people. If people decide to choose the darkness, then you have to respect that. God does.
But the way to win people for God is to become like them and bear them and show them the light. If they see bad behaviour then you have little chance of winning anybody, I can promise you that.
Harassing people and not taking no for an answer is only going to make people resist him and unfortunately even resist that which is of the faith that he may be demonstrating.
Like I said earlier, I had no problem with his accusations toward me because I knew that he wasn't right in some of the accusations he fired at me. But not all members are like me. Some get very upset at his behaviour toward them.
But I am glad he is gone now. I know of some good members who left because of him and I felt their worth and contribution was greater than his. Now I don't have that hassle of him acting in a contrary way and giving this website a bad name.
Remember this, God disciplines his sons. If those who are not of the faith are not disciplined, then don't cry about it, rather understand that sons represent their Father, and we must be very careful of our conduct. Because of this, our discipline should be harder.
Ken had plenty of warnings about his conduct and encouragement in the good things that he said. He has only himself to blame.
On a selfish note, I would like to know exactly why I have been given a little white box.
I was sent this pm anonymously:
****************************************************************************
You have been warned by a staff member. Your warning level has been increased, and this will be viewable to all members. Once you have reached the maximum warning level, your posting permissions will be revoked.
You have been warned from the following post: https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….ry91428Hi Stu,
Some respect for the sincere faith of others please
****************************************************************************From this I cannot determine which post is the offending one, nor what offense against the rules has been committed. 'Respect for the sincere faith of others' does not seem to be in, or implied by the rules. If this was the problem and it had been consistently applied, by now I would be like Kenrch and have enough little tiles to do out my bathroom. I feel a response from the responsible mod would be a courtesy at least. I remember Kenrch made a similar objection earlier.
Stuart
Quote (heaven @ Jan. 21 2008,16:23) Regarding those who have denied the messiah. A new member group has been set up called “Non-believers” and 2 members have already been moved into that group. The Non-believers group cannot post in the “Believers Place” forums.
If a member is posting in these forums and disrupting the discussions with unbelief arguments or arguments about God not existing, then please report that member so I can move them into this new group.
Non-believers can post in other forums and can argue their point of view as long as the subject of the discussion is appropriate.
E.g., it is technically OK to argue for Evolution if the discussion is related to that subject.
By stopping people posting you could exclude someone who was a believer but chose to post as a non-believer for the purpose of asking difficult questions without attracting the 'you should know better' answers that some here get.In the thread that I started on the Nature of Faith, I ask why faith needs so much protection and nurturing. Well it would seem that by formally wrapping in cotton wool some threads and insulating them against critique, Heaven has emphatically provided an answer: faith cannot answer the hard questions and would curl up and die if not constantly fed milk and told not to worry.
Do people here really follow a way of life that cannot stand the mildest of criticism?
Stuart
Not at all Stu. I have no fear in criticism of my faith. In fact a challenge is good.
Rather it is just a practical thing that non-believers not post in that category because what they have to say is completely unrelated to the topics there and will only be disruptive.
There are other forums where you are free to post about your beliefs that are more appropriate.
Simple as that. It is just about management and keeping discussions on their subjects.
You are free critique in other forums that are appropriate.
I think some people are failing to see that Ken did not pick up his warnings all in the same time period. If I recall, he picked up his first one when the Sabbath was a hot topic on here. Ken often had a tendency of being nasty towards people who did not agree with him about the Sabbath.
As to the others, Ken constantly called out others who are struggling with certain aspects of their faith — I am one in that group — and started calling us antichrists. I never once said Jesus was not the Christ, but I wonder exactly that is supposed to mean. The word “christos” means “anointed” and the OT are full of “anointed” people. Yet not a single time is the future David called “anointed”.
Also, I think people fail to see that once Ken got 4 blocks, most of his posts at the point became “dares”, pushing t8 to see what he would do next. Really quite sad if you ask me.
Stu can do less harm here than Towshab did because Stu doesn't believe in God. Trying to prove or disprove God is like nailing jello to the wall. But Tow was using OT vs. NT to try to prove his point and the people who did engage him were not doing a good job of answering his “proof”.
The worst thing that anyone could have done was to even respond to Tow. His threads would have eventually been buried but for some reason Nick kept responding to him like the person who needed to get the last word in. That kept the various threads prominent and they constantly showed as the new threads when you came back to the board. The curious reader always reads the newest threads.
To clarify my last post, I will admit to questioning whether Jesus was truly the Messiah, but by that I did not mean messiah in a general sense, but the coming David of the OT, who was never called messiah. The very few times you see that one mentioned he is either called “son of David”, “David”, or “My servant David”. The Jews did not start attaching the title Messiah to the coming David until Christians started calling Jesus the Christ, and they did this as a reactionary measure.
For those who have compassion on Ken and the way he was trying to snatch me from the fire, I tell you this – he is now harassing me through emails. Wanting a confession of faith or giving me over to hell! This brother has gone way beyond scriptural boundries for caring for brother's and sister's. He needs help, folks. And I'm changing my email address!
Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 21 2008,23:51) I think some people are failing to see that Ken did not pick up his warnings all in the same time period. If I recall, he picked up his first one when the Sabbath was a hot topic on here. Ken often had a tendency of being nasty towards people who did not agree with him about the Sabbath. As to the others, Ken constantly called out others who are struggling with certain aspects of their faith — I am one in that group — and started calling us antichrists. I never once said Jesus was not the Christ, but I wonder exactly that is supposed to mean. The word “christos” means “anointed” and the OT are full of “anointed” people. Yet not a single time is the future David called “anointed”.
Also, I think people fail to see that once Ken got 4 blocks, most of his posts at the point became “dares”, pushing t8 to see what he would do next. Really quite sad if you ask me.
Stu can do less harm here than Towshab did because Stu doesn't believe in God. Trying to prove or disprove God is like nailing jello to the wall. But Tow was using OT vs. NT to try to prove his point and the people who did engage him were not doing a good job of answering his “proof”.
The worst thing that anyone could have done was to even respond to Tow. His threads would have eventually been buried but for some reason Nick kept responding to him like the person who needed to get the last word in. That kept the various threads prominent and they constantly showed as the new threads when you came back to the board. The curious reader always reads the newest threads.
Hi KJ,
We need to understand the tactics of the enemy and his troops and we need to know our own weaknesses so it is necessary to engage in debate to become stronger. Any embittered but educated man with time on his hands can assault this site but avoiding conflict is unhelpful for all of us.Although I agree we need to know our weeknesses and understand the enemy, I can't quite agree about debating making us stronger. Scripture tells us in 2 Tim. 2:14-15 Keep reminding them of these things. Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen.
Wm
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