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Hi KeJohn:
You say:
Quote There is one word you should pay attention to, one word that defines this thread: “Personal”. It is your “personal” experience. Now, how can you show that your personal experiences disqualify the reality of other gods? I have already answered this question for you.
And why should I not bring up, you say for my sake, the fact that God has shown me that He will use me as a Bishop in the church in this last day. The truth will be manifest one way or the other. And I know what He has said to me. It can't fail. You see, that is the difference between other so called gods and the One and Only God. When my God speaks, He is able to perform what He has said.
Love in Christ,
MartyHi KeJohn:
As I have said and I believe you stated your self there are people in every religion that have experienced
God to their great satisfaction, having prayers answered, healings occur, being showed visions and the such
Actually I shouldn't post in this thread because I am not really debating but my point is for everyone else here
in which I will say:your personal testimonies cannot hold “more” validity than someone elses personal testimonies. It's like
relationships, some people apply themselves in their relationships and have nothing but good things to report about their friends, spouses, work…etc. Others report that women are trouble, work is difficult and friends are undependableA person cannot escape their intent. How could it be so that some here believe that if someone grew up in some religion unfamiliar to them and that person had full intent of pursuing that path purely with Love and Joy that God would somehow choose destruction for them?
That simply would make no sense. This is why the Quran says to not mock the religion of others because you would be Mocking ALLAH/YHVH/THE CREATOR out of ignorance assuming it was some “other” GOD
6:108 Revile not ye those whom they call upon besides Allah, lest they out of spite revile Allah in their ignorance. Thus have We made alluring to each people its own doings. In the end will they return to their Lord, and We shall then tell them the truth of all that they did.
I don’t mean to interlope or outstay my welcome in this thread or lead anyone to think I was a theist, but just briefly for P of the K:
Quote personally stuart, one point needs to be made in regards to your theory, i did not evolve from an animal, hence the title 'princess'. to place human form and its beauty and throw it to the swines is beneath me.
OK, fair enough. I will refer only to all other humans in saying that we ARE all animals and we ARE all apes. That is our classification. I guess we are not all princesses of a king.Quote how could such a wonderous creation be compared with anything, we are the masterpiece of our creator.
Wondrous yes! Created no. All the more wondrous for not having been created!Quote do you believe the world will cease to exist, or do you believe mankind will cease to exist.
It is pretty much a certainty that in about 5 billion years time there will be no earth, and apart from the possibility of brief stays on planets further from the ever-inflating sun, all life in this solar system will cease. All living things are evolving, and humans will be nothing like we are now in even a couple of million years, let alone a couple of billion.Quote do you think the apes will evolve into another mankind, a smarter one, one that evolves to a higher intelligence then mankind has today.
I think the sequence of circumstances that allowed the evolution of humans is unique. The key would be whether some other species would stumble upon the same opportunities for selection of big brains that our ancestors did. Maybe cetaceans?Stuart
Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 02 2010,14:51) Quote (princess of the king @ Jan. 01 2010,19:56) a better starting place is what is your definition of god. Does that really matter? Other people worship other entities — real or imagined — that they call “god”. Please do not detract.
Quote god is just a word, belief in that god is what makes the world go round does it not. Not really, no.
i did not ask a universal question, apparently you have no definition of what a god is by your measure.please do not avoid.
Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 02 2010,09:13) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 02 2010,06:55) Still no theist yet prepared to use the word 'because'… Stuart
Not so STU,I said BECAUSE THERE IS NO OTHER GOD
No you didn't, you said:“…not another actual God because that would be impossible”.
…which I acknowledge nevertheless as your use of the word because.
…but which in turn is not really an answer to a why question. WHY is it impossible?
Stuart
billions millions of years, wow stuart, i just finished my day, too much to think about, maybe another time okay.
we have created a friendship of some sort. now, explain to me with natural selection, enviroment, evolution how this came about. please do not use opposites' attract.
i just think humans are unique, there is not another like us, how the world was created to suit us. like a perfect fit. too many things that just fit, nicely.
there is so much more.
and stuart, who wants to smell like fish. ew
take care.
Quote (Stu @ Jan. 02 2010,15:36) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 02 2010,09:13) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 02 2010,06:55) Still no theist yet prepared to use the word 'because'… Stuart
Not so STU,I said BECAUSE THERE IS NO OTHER GOD
No you didn't, you said:“…not another actual God because that would be impossible”.
…which I acknowledge nevertheless as your use of the word because.
…but which in turn is not really an answer to a why question. WHY is it impossible?
Stuart
It is Impossible because GOD is the Originator and therefore THE SUPREMEP of the K
“Being surprised at the fact that the universe is fine tuned
for life is akin to a puddle being surprised at how well it
fits its hole”
– Douglas AdamsStuart
Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 02 2010,16:48) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 02 2010,15:36) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 02 2010,09:13) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 02 2010,06:55) Still no theist yet prepared to use the word 'because'… Stuart
Not so STU,I said BECAUSE THERE IS NO OTHER GOD
No you didn't, you said:“…not another actual God because that would be impossible”.
…which I acknowledge nevertheless as your use of the word because.
…but which in turn is not really an answer to a why question. WHY is it impossible?
Stuart
It is Impossible because GOD is the Originator and therefore THE SUPREME
[Sorry kejonn!]BD
Not good enough. Define what you mean by 'originator', and 'supreme'. You haven't even said which god you are promoting here! That is the whole point of the thread. Why YOUR god and not someone else's SINGLE god?
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Jan. 02 2010,16:54) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 02 2010,16:48) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 02 2010,15:36) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 02 2010,09:13) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 02 2010,06:55) Still no theist yet prepared to use the word 'because'… Stuart
Not so STU,I said BECAUSE THERE IS NO OTHER GOD
No you didn't, you said:“…not another actual God because that would be impossible”.
…which I acknowledge nevertheless as your use of the word because.
…but which in turn is not really an answer to a why question. WHY is it impossible?
Stuart
It is Impossible because GOD is the Originator and therefore THE SUPREME
[Sorry kejonn!]BD
Not good enough. Define what you mean by 'originator', and 'supreme'. You haven't even said which god you are promoting here! That is the whole point of the thread. Why YOUR god and not someone else's SINGLE god?
Stuart
There is no other God? So asking which god is redundant.You know what Prime means?
ADJECTIVE: 1. First in excellence, quality, or value
It stands to reason that there has to be a God (life) that is higher than all others. Unless one holds to the belief that there are 2 or 3 … that are equal.
Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 02 2010,17:00) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 02 2010,16:54) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 02 2010,16:48) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 02 2010,15:36) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 02 2010,09:13) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 02 2010,06:55) Still no theist yet prepared to use the word 'because'… Stuart
Not so STU,I said BECAUSE THERE IS NO OTHER GOD
No you didn't, you said:“…not another actual God because that would be impossible”.
…which I acknowledge nevertheless as your use of the word because.
…but which in turn is not really an answer to a why question. WHY is it impossible?
Stuart
It is Impossible because GOD is the Originator and therefore THE SUPREME
[Sorry kejonn!]BD
Not good enough. Define what you mean by 'originator', and 'supreme'. You haven't even said which god you are promoting here! That is the whole point of the thread. Why YOUR god and not someone else's SINGLE god?
Stuart
There is no other God? So asking which god is redundant.You know what Prime means?
ADJECTIVE: 1. First in excellence, quality, or value
So we are talking about Zeus then. There is no other. Thanks for clearing that up for us.Stuart
Quote (t8 @ Jan. 02 2010,17:50) It stands to reason that there has to be a God (life) that is higher than all others. Unless one holds to the belief that there are 2 or 3 … that are equal.
Thanks for that Thomas Aquinas. This god must exist because it is the highest of the high, most noble of the noble, smelliest of the smelly and most violent of the violent.Stuart
I am just pointing out something logical. In all things, there is usually the greatest. It is unlikely that 2 or more are exactly the same greatness.
There must exists the greatest soccer player, the greatest intellect, the greatest guitar player.
I made a simple point. No point in arguing with that and being silly about it.So if there are are so-called gods, there must be one that has greatest authority. Authority over all, even other so-called gods/authorities.
My point was no more than that thus far, and was not meant to prove anything beyond what I wrote it for.
Sounds to me though, that you may not be able make correct judgements with statements that are made, or that you are not worthy to even be discussing such a topic. Your post comes across as something a kid might say.
Quote (t8 @ Jan. 02 2010,19:38) I am just pointing out something logical. In all things, there is usually the greatest. It is unlikely that 2 or more are exactly the same greatness. There must exists the greatest soccer player, the greatest intellect, the greatest guitar player.
I made a simple point. No point in arguing with that and being silly about it.So if there are are so-called gods, there must be one that has greatest authority. Authority over all, even other so-called gods/authorities.
My point was no more than that thus far, and was not meant to prove anything beyond what I wrote it for.
Sounds to me though, that you may not be able make correct judgements with statements that are made, or that you are not worthy to even be discussing such a topic. Your post comes across as something a kid might say.
Maybe you should discuss with Nick the requirements of christians to think like children, notwithstanding Paul's writing in Corinthians.Stuart
It helps when you act as a grown up Stu. Mature people can discuss things in a civilised way. Childish behaviour often involves rebellion, teasing, and taking the opposing view for the sake of it being opposing.
There is a difference between child like and childish too. One is about innocence of evil and the other is immaturity in responsibility and behaviour. Hopefully that sets the record straight for you.
BTW, you do not have to choose childish because you reject child-like. Thought I had better point that out for you as I have a hunch that you might be childish in your next post.
We will see.
Quote (t8 @ Jan. 02 2010,23:25) It helps when you act as a grown up Stu. Mature people can discuss things in a civilised way. Childish behaviour often involves rebellion, teasing, and taking the opposing view for the sake of it being opposing. There is a difference between child like and childish too. One is about innocence of evil and the other is immaturity in responsibility and behaviour. Hopefully that sets the record straight for you.
BTW, you do not have to choose childish because you reject child-like. Thought I had better point that out for you as I have a hunch that you might be childish in your next post.
We will see.
It is a serious point I made, calling it childish is pretty ironic of you.You have used Aquinas's argument from degree, which apart from it being fallacious because it is circular (assuming as it does a state of supremeness which it then uses to assign a property of a god), is not actually being an argument for one specific god over all others, which would seem to be the intent of the thread.
Instead of defending your Aquinine argument against the point that it only picks on particular positive traits for this god to be the best at, and ignores the bad things it could be also called best at, and ignores the possibility of a dead heat between two gods, instead you have opted for the logical fallacy of ad hominem.
Not your finest moment in debate t8. That is three fallacies and one instance of ignoring the proposition.
Are you serious about this debate?
Stuart
t8
My apologies, I retract one of those fallacies as I see you did in fact acknowledge the possibility of two or three gods of equal…um…smelliness.
That is just two fallacies and ignoring the proposition.
Stuart
Sorry I missed your response PotK.
Quote (princess of the king @ Jan. 01 2010,15:40) it would take on the question of: original meaning of god, would it not. the word god is so universal, surely the meaning of the word would have a great definition. I do not know that one could come up with the original meaning of god. If you look back upon the known history of man, the first gods to be recognized were quite primitive. In fact, if you look at the depiction of YHWH in the first book of the bible, he appears to be a volcano god (fire at night, cloud of smoke by day, found in a mountain).
Quote for one, what is the value of life. what is the great purpose of mankind. just to live and die, repopulate, fight, accustome oursleves to the lastest trend Not much different than the rest of the animal kingdom, are we?
Quote who was the first god or did two or more show up. ancient text show everyone has come from a god culture/nature. The reason behind that is very simple: the unknown, filled by what we call a “god of the gaps”. Primitive people thought all sorts of natural phenomena were related to some unknown power, thus a god. Think thunder, lightning, the wind, stars, the sun, the moon, etc.
As we learn more, reasons to explain things away by attributing them to some god become less and less. Some people are willfully ignorant of many modern discoveries as a form of denial so they can retain their god beliefs.
Quote if you say dna, genetics, i am sure there is some undiscovered gene, that may chose what god you serve, would that not be exciting, the god particle (for the use of better) why do so many stories of creation take similiar form,
Do they?
Top 10 Intelligent Designs (or Creation Myths)
A perusal of the above shows that the various creation myths are not really that similar beyond some god or gods doing it. That's were they start to part.
Quote why do some religions, just by a bit are different but the same. Because some religions grew out of the factions of an original.
Quote i mean take the theory of stuart (only as reference) by some mis fire, apes became human. just that little bit of difference, with the same matter. that catorgizes stuarts' theory with the trinitarians'. sub title so to speak. what in natural selection has evolved us, to show we are any different from the ancients. where has this evolution taken place in the mind of man.
I'm really not that big into evolution (I do not think it matters a whole lot, but that's just me), but we have certainly evolved socially and culturally. We definitely have evolved in technology. Some aspects of our personality remain basically the same, but others have been rejected.
For instance, modern religions do not sacrifice animals or other humans, yet the very same god worshiped at one time is now different? This goes to show that it is the human who has evolved to be less barbaric in practice.
Since the rest of your post seems to be to Stu, I will stop commenting now.
Just curious, but why were you addressing Stu in this thread?
Quote (seekingtruth @ Jan. 01 2010,19:41) kejonn,
I agree truth is truth, but I totally disagree that there are many truths.I think you misunderstood my statement. There are many truths. Water is essential for life. The sun heats our planet and provides daylight. Everyone dies. You get the picture.
Quote I believe truth to be absolute and unchanging. And while there is one all encompassing truth, it is a lifetime pursuit of trying to uncover it, beset with false trails having many advocates trying to pull us in, we resist some truths because they don't fit our pet theory, and in many cases we're just too lazy or too busy to put the effort in to search for truth. So it is my belief that we are all at various levels of this truth and have portions of the truth in different areas. No one has all truth and all of us have allowed some errors in our belief. However, if you believe that there can be many “truths” then we have no reason to discuss further as we have no common ground to build on.
My opinion – Wm
See above. As I stated before, I do not believe that “truth” is an appropriate word for things of the supernatural realm. “Belief” is the best word.
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