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Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 28 2010,21:08) So plants came before seeds? and what did birds eat before seeds were “evolved” Do you see how ill informed you are? Dude, no one knows with certainty, but plants likely preceded animals. Where do you think atmospheric oxygen comes from?
Please, learn at least a few basics.
Quote Did you not know that grass holds the soil in place? How did grass get spread out like a carpet?
Is there a point to all of this? Oh yes, the point is “I don't know everything so that means Allahdidit!Laziness = religiousity it seems.
Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 29 2010,15:50) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 28 2010,21:08) So plants came before seeds? and what did birds eat before seeds were “evolved” Do you see how ill informed you are? Dude, no one knows with certainty, but plants likely preceded animals. Where do you think atmospheric oxygen comes from?
Please, learn at least a few basics.
Quote Did you not know that grass holds the soil in place? How did grass get spread out like a carpet?
Is there a point to all of this? Oh yes, the point is “I don't know everything so that means Allahdidit!Laziness = religiousity it seems.
You don't get it do you? I have already studied these things and there is no doubt that God is real but when
forced to look at it you will simply fold because of the obvious facts.Everything is evidence of God!
Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 28 2010,23:14) You don't get it do you? I have already studied these things and there is no doubt that God is real but when
forced to look at it you will simply fold because of the obvious facts.Everything is evidence of God!
You studied them, the answers confused you, so you believed there was a designer.You “evidence” just as easily points to aliens creating the earth.
Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 29 2010,22:45) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 28 2010,23:14) You don't get it do you? I have already studied these things and there is no doubt that God is real but when
forced to look at it you will simply fold because of the obvious facts.Everything is evidence of God!
You studied them, the answers confused you, so you believed there was a designer.You “evidence” just as easily points to aliens creating the earth.
Wouldn't such an “Alien” be a Supreme Being”? besides no such aliens did create the earth it was ALLAH/The GodDo you consider all things that we consider “Designed” to just be coincidence and if so what method of designed thinking brought you to that conclusion, if there is no design there is no reason and if there is no reason there is no validity of Value and yet we know your lungs, kidney and heart all have value because they are designed to function in a way that helps you maintain life.
Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 29 2010,04:57) Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 29 2010,03:23) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 28 2010,18:10) I am glad you believe that there is only ONE GOD, Because The Holy Bible and The Quran are from the same Author and both are available to everyone
Hi BD,Are you now calling an Angel (Gabriel?) God?
Col:2:18: Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels(satan),
intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by (the 'book of fraud' and) his fleshly mind,I thought you said there was 'only' one God?
Explain your inconsistencies and Hypocrisy.Ed J
Gabriel is not the Author of the Quran
2Cor.11:14: And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness;
whose end shall be according to their works.Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 29 2010,11:04) Wouldn't such an “Alien” be a Supreme Being”? http://www.thefreedictionary.com/supreme
1. Greatest in power, authority, or rank; paramount or dominant.
2. Greatest in importance, degree, significance, character, or achievement.
3. Ultimate; final: the supreme sacrifice.So according to the definition, NO. They would simply be advanced beings.
Quote besides no such aliens did create the earth it was ALLAH/The God Evidence of this outside of assertion, speculation, and ancient texts written by priests and goat herders?
Quote Do you consider all things that we consider “Designed” to just be coincidence and if so what method of designed thinking brought you to that conclusion, if there is no design there is no reason and if there is no reason there is no validity of Value and yet we know your lungs, kidney and heart all have value because they are designed to function in a way that helps you maintain life.
Or they merely developed that way so that we might survive in our environment. Really, you haven't a clue how the evolutionary theory works, do you?Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 30 2010,04:04) Wouldn't such an “Alien” be a Supreme Being”?
NO!'great i am'='lucifer': 'satan's' title'=66!
Psalm 69:8: 'i am' become a stranger…and an alien…
Job 19:15 …'i am' an alien in their sight.
Luke 16:24: And he cried …'i am' tormented in this [“GOD flame“=63].Heb:12:29 …God(YHVH=63) is a consuming fire.
Heb.11:34 …waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 29 2010,16:14) You don't get it do you? I have already studied these things and there is no doubt that God is real but when
forced to look at it you will simply fold because of the obvious facts.Everything is evidence of God!
You are a bull in the china shop of epistemology.And you know what bulls are full of, don't you.
Stuart
Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 30 2010,05:00) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 29 2010,04:57) Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 29 2010,03:23) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 28 2010,18:10) I am glad you believe that there is only ONE GOD, Because The Holy Bible and The Quran are from the same Author and both are available to everyone
Hi BD,Are you now calling an Angel (Gabriel?) God?
Col:2:18: Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels(satan),
intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by (the 'book of fraud' and) his fleshly mind,I thought you said there was 'only' one God?
Explain your inconsistencies and Hypocrisy.Ed J
Gabriel is not the Author of the Quran
2Cor.11:14: And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness;
whose end shall be according to their works.
Are you now speaking evil against Gabriel? If so, then why do you do such a thing?Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 30 2010,05:33) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 29 2010,11:04) Wouldn't such an “Alien” be a Supreme Being”? http://www.thefreedictionary.com/supreme
1. Greatest in power, authority, or rank; paramount or dominant.
2. Greatest in importance, degree, significance, character, or achievement.
3. Ultimate; final: the supreme sacrifice.So according to the definition, NO. They would simply be advanced beings.
Quote besides no such aliens did create the earth it was ALLAH/The God Evidence of this outside of assertion, speculation, and ancient texts written by priests and goat herders?
Quote Do you consider all things that we consider “Designed” to just be coincidence and if so what method of designed thinking brought you to that conclusion, if there is no design there is no reason and if there is no reason there is no validity of Value and yet we know your lungs, kidney and heart all have value because they are designed to function in a way that helps you maintain life.
Or they merely developed that way so that we might survive in our environment. Really, you haven't a clue how the evolutionary theory works, do you?
Kejonn,Does your ignorance know no bounds? You just said that kidneys, lungs and hearts “developed that way so that we might survive in our environment” Are these body parts mindful or concerned with surviving? It's like saying fruits and plants only grew to be edible to feed us, really ignorant isn't it.
“Grass was only developed to hold down the soil so it wouldn't erode and make it incompatible with growing things”
“Our eyes only developed so we could see where we were going” Don't these statement sound ridiculous? That's exactly how you sound.
Now tell me if you went to another planet and you found a screw driver or an automobile would that be proof of intelligent conscious life having existed there or would you assume that cars and screwdrivers sometimes form there?
Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 29 2010,03:56) Quote (david @ Jan. 28 2010,00:42) Kejonn, you did not address my point. You ask:
All I am asking is for theists to show me why other gods are false or non-existent while there own god is the only true one.In a nutshell.
Quote My comment:
“One God had a book authored and made available to everyone in the world. This God says, “I exist” and seems to want us to know him, and how he deals with people. Other gods seem less concerned with us knowing they exist.”What of the Rigveda? Avesta? Both were authored by people who spoke for their god, just as the bible has been. There really is no indication at all that your god authored any bit of the bible, just claims that he has.
And as to other gods, they seem to be revealing themselves to other people, so why should I disbelieve what they say about their god(s) and believe what you say about yours? Because of some ancient book?
The Iliad is an ancient text, too. What does having an ancient text mean?
Quote My argument is simply this: If other gods existed, they don't seem to want to make it known. Sure they do. To the people that believe in them. If all you have is a book claiming other people knew a god, then that isn't much. I can find you books on people who believe in fairies.
Quote But if you look closely, you'll notice that the Bible is about one specific God, from beginning to end, and that amazingly, this book has not just survived, but become available to everyone. It claims to be about the same god, but its amazing how this god changes with the passing of time. First he is a tribal volcano god, then he is a god who only speaks through his prophets (still to the same tribe), and now he is supposed to be some god represented by the character of Jesus. Hate to say it, but Jesus is really not much like the god of the Jews found in the OT. Anyone taking a critical look at the bible can plainly see that.
Quote Kejonn, whether you consider this book to be filled with outdated practices or not, does not erase the fact that everyone on the planet has access to that book, whereas all the other gods seem to still be negotiating editing rights.
So you are saying that since the Rigveda has not been changed in hundreds of years, that it is also proof of the god(s) of the Hindus?Quote What of the Rigveda? Avesta? I literally have never heard of them. So my point stands.
Quote Both were authored by people who spoke for their god, just as the bible has been. But that was not my point. My point was not that God is said to have authored the Bible, but rather that the God of the Bible says: “Here I am, I exist” and he makes this message available to everyone. I have never heard of Avesta or Rigveda, and certainly no one has ever came up to me and tried to tell me about them. Maybe Avesta and Rigveda don't care if anyone knows they exist.
Quote And as to other gods, they seem to be revealing themselves to other people, so why should I disbelieve what they say about their god(s) and believe what you say about yours?
Again, my point is this: I believe if there is a Creator, who created us, he would want us to know him. (If I created a life form, I would want it to know me. Or if I had a child, I would want it to know me.) So, if there is a creator, he'd have to someone make his name known to everyone, in every langauge in a way that they all have access to. To the best of my knowledge, the Bible by far comes closest to that.Quote Sure they do. To the people that believe in them. If all you have is a book claiming other people knew a god, then that isn't much. I can find you books on people who believe in fairies.
And yet, none of these books that were inspired by fairies have any chance of making it into my hands. Or anyone else's hands either, really? Whatever book you pick that is said to be the work of a fairy will only ever be read or heard by less than One 10,000th of 1% of the world. And that fairy book is probably written in 1 maybe 5 languages.
Every thing you say here only seems to agree with my point.Quote It claims to be about the same god, but its amazing how this god changes with the passing of time.
I am sure you have changed with the passing of time. Without knowing you, I'm sure you have. But does that mean you don't exist? A man may be a judge as a profession, and sentence people during the day but come home to his children and family at night and take on a different role. To his children, he is loving, to the criminals, he is harsh. A man is what he needs to be. I know you have changed. But I'm still pretty sure you exist.Quote So you are saying that since the Rigveda has not been changed in hundreds of years, that it is also proof of the god(s) of the Hindus?
No, my joke about other gods still “negotiating editing rights” was to highlight the fact that other gods seem to still have a long way to go with their advertising.BD
Quote “Grass was only developed to hold down the soil so it wouldn't erode and make it incompatible with growing things” “Our eyes only developed so we could see where we were going” Don't these statement sound ridiculous? That's exactly how you sound.
You are right BD, those things are absurd strawmen statements, and they sound very silly.
And you know what else? Kejonn didn't write them, and you did.
Stuart
Quote Now tell me if you went to another planet and you found a screw driver or an automobile would that be proof of intelligent conscious life having existed there or would you assume that cars and screwdrivers sometimes form there?
The fallacy of the argument from composition.Just another to add to your long list of logical gaffes.
Stuart
Quote (david @ Jan. 29 2010,23:48) Quote What of the Rigveda? Avesta? I literally have never heard of them. So my point stands.
But I have, and many others have as well. So your point is invalidated.
Quote Quote Both were authored by people who spoke for their god, just as the bible has been. But that was not my point. My point was not that God is said to have authored the Bible, but rather that the God of the Bible says: “Here I am, I exist” and he makes this message available to everyone. I have never heard of Avesta or Rigveda, and certainly no one has ever came up to me and tried to tell me about them. Maybe Avesta and Rigveda don't care if anyone knows they exist.
Maybe not. Maybe others don't care to force their religion on others. Maybe they believe their god can speak for him/herself rather than letting humans do the talking. Oh that Christians would do the same!
Quote Quote And as to other gods, they seem to be revealing themselves to other people, so why should I disbelieve what they say about their god(s) and believe what you say about yours?
Again, my point is this: I believe if there is a Creator, who created us, he would want us to know him.So what is he doing about it? An ancient book just doesn't cut the mustard.
Quote (If I created a life form, I would want it to know me. Or if I had a child, I would want it to know me.) Would you do it in person, or would you leave a letter to be read 2000 years later?
Quote So, if there is a creator, he'd have to someone make his name known to everyone, in every langauge in a way that they all have access to. To the best of my knowledge, the Bible by far comes closest to that. FAIL.
Humans were responsible for all of this. They are the ones to keep the parts they wanted, and these parts were translated to other languages.
Quote Quote Sure they do. To the people that believe in them. If all you have is a book claiming other people knew a god, then that isn't much. I can find you books on people who believe in fairies.
And yet, none of these books that were inspired by fairies have any chance of making it into my hands.Sure they do. Either purchase them or check them out at a library.
Quote Or anyone else's hands either, really? Whatever book you pick that is said to be the work of a fairy will only ever be read or heard by less than One 10,000th of 1% of the world. So? Popularity = God?
Quote And that fairy book is probably written in 1 maybe 5 languages.
Every thing you say here only seems to agree with my point.Your point is weak and very unconvincing.
Quote Quote It claims to be about the same god, but its amazing how this god changes with the passing of time.
I am sure you have changed with the passing of time.So God grows up? God learns? God gets older and then dies?
Quote Without knowing you, I'm sure you have. But does that mean you don't exist? A man may be a judge as a profession, and sentence people during the day but come home to his children and family at night and take on a different role. To his children, he is loving, to the criminals, he is harsh. A man is what he needs to be. I know you have changed. But I'm still pretty sure you exist. See above.
Quote Quote So you are saying that since the Rigveda has not been changed in hundreds of years, that it is also proof of the god(s) of the Hindus?
No, my joke about other gods still “negotiating editing rights” was to highlight the fact that other gods seem to still have a long way to go with their advertising.
Maybe other gods don't care to be the BMOC. Pride comes before the fall.Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 31 2010,14:21) Quote (david @ Jan. 29 2010,23:48) Quote What of the Rigveda? Avesta? I literally have never heard of them. So my point stands.
But I have, and many others have as well. So your point is invalidated.
Quote Quote Both were authored by people who spoke for their god, just as the bible has been. But that was not my point. My point was not that God is said to have authored the Bible, but rather that the God of the Bible says: “Here I am, I exist” and he makes this message available to everyone. I have never heard of Avesta or Rigveda, and certainly no one has ever came up to me and tried to tell me about them. Maybe Avesta and Rigveda don't care if anyone knows they exist.
Maybe not. Maybe others don't care to force their religion on others. Maybe they believe their god can speak for him/herself rather than letting humans do the talking. Oh that Christians would do the same!
Quote Quote And as to other gods, they seem to be revealing themselves to other people, so why should I disbelieve what they say about their god(s) and believe what you say about yours?
Again, my point is this: I believe if there is a Creator, who created us, he would want us to know him.So what is he doing about it? An ancient book just doesn't cut the mustard.
Quote (If I created a life form, I would want it to know me. Or if I had a child, I would want it to know me.) Would you do it in person, or would you leave a letter to be read 2000 years later?
Quote So, if there is a creator, he'd have to someone make his name known to everyone, in every langauge in a way that they all have access to. To the best of my knowledge, the Bible by far comes closest to that. FAIL.
Humans were responsible for all of this. They are the ones to keep the parts they wanted, and these parts were translated to other languages.
Quote Quote Sure they do. To the people that believe in them. If all you have is a book claiming other people knew a god, then that isn't much. I can find you books on people who believe in fairies.
And yet, none of these books that were inspired by fairies have any chance of making it into my hands.Sure they do. Either purchase them or check them out at a library.
Quote Or anyone else's hands either, really? Whatever book you pick that is said to be the work of a fairy will only ever be read or heard by less than One 10,000th of 1% of the world. So? Popularity = God?
Quote And that fairy book is probably written in 1 maybe 5 languages.
Every thing you say here only seems to agree with my point.Your point is weak and very unconvincing.
Quote Quote It claims to be about the same god, but its amazing how this god changes with the passing of time.
I am sure you have changed with the passing of time.So God grows up? God learns? God gets older and then dies?
Quote Without knowing you, I'm sure you have. But does that mean you don't exist? A man may be a judge as a profession, and sentence people during the day but come home to his children and family at night and take on a different role. To his children, he is loving, to the criminals, he is harsh. A man is what he needs to be. I know you have changed. But I'm still pretty sure you exist. See above.
Quote Quote So you are saying that since the Rigveda has not been changed in hundreds of years, that it is also proof of the god(s) of the Hindus?
No, my joke about other gods still “negotiating editing rights” was to highlight the fact that other gods seem to still have a long way to go with their advertising.
Maybe other gods don't care to be the BMOC. Pride comes before the fall.
Kejonn,You are a worst atheist than Stu, you have even lost all your honesty. Tell me are you now ABSOLUTELY sure that God doesn't exist?
Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 30 2010,21:46) Kejonn, You are a worst atheist than Stu, you have even lost all your honesty. Tell me are you now ABSOLUTELY sure that God doesn't exist?
What's a “worse atheist”? Is there a scale to measure such things?This thread is about showing your god is to be believed in while other gods are to be seen as false. 32 pages later and I see that this cannot be done.
Quote (david @ Jan. 29 2010,23:48) Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 29 2010,03:56)
What of the Rigveda? Avesta?I literally have never heard of them. So my point stands.
What about the Quran? Predictions are that Islam will one day either catch up to or overtake Christianity as the #1 religion. Will that mean that you will believe in Allah and convert if it happens in your lifetime?Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 31 2010,15:11) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 30 2010,21:46) Kejonn, You are a worst atheist than Stu, you have even lost all your honesty. Tell me are you now ABSOLUTELY sure that God doesn't exist?
What's a “worse atheist”? Is there a scale to measure such things?This thread is about showing your god is to be believed in while other gods are to be seen as false. 32 pages later and I see that this cannot be done.
There are no other godsQuote (Stu @ Jan. 31 2010,16:23) Tee Hee. I am better atheist than kejonn. Sorry, kejonn, don't mean to brag…
Stuart
Well, it's true and the reason is you admit your lack of certainty while Kejonn is simply bitter and angry at his old religion and hates religion with certainty.He was enjoying his religion and now he has to deny it and not believe it at all just to feel comfortable.
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