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I meant to say “I would not call it debate”. My call for Skeptics to be allowed editing rights fell on blind eyes.
Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 25 2010,21:40) I meant to say “I would not call it debate”. My call for Skeptics to be allowed editing rights fell on blind eyes.
Thanks for taking up the cause. I guess we will have to carry on thundering through with oops…sorry…repost. It will be the arguments that are elegant, not necessarily the formatting.Stuart
Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 24 2010,22:23) You said it was based on misguided beliefs are you changing the story now? What if someone believed that thumbs were evil and and believed they had to be removed?
The fact is you don't think that circumcision is child abuse but the quetion is why would anyone decide to circumcize their children and not just you but your whole Nation as Israel did?
Are all Jews misguided parents?
To be truthful, I was addressing the whole gamut of religious beliefs, not just one one particular practice. Jews, Christians, Muslims, Hindus, JWs, Mormons, etc. all have odd practices and beliefs that they teach their children.If you only meant the one practice of circumcision, then no, it would not be real child abuse IMHO.
But to get back to your last question, Jews who follow Torah and have their children do so are misguided parents. They follow some ancient practice invented by priests who said some god told them to do it. Funny thing is that this god doesn't seem to be speaking anymore. And if he does, he says different things (often contradictory) to different people. Funny how that works.
Your thread, I believe. There is enough material today alone to cause a whole lecture theatre full of first-year philosophy students to groan in dismay. Good luck!
Stuart
Quote (david @ Jan. 24 2010,23:49) Quote All I am asking is for theists to show me why other gods are false or non-existent while there own god is the only true one. –kejonn
There seems to be one basic answer given:
One God had a book authored and made available to everyone in the world. This God says, “I exist” and seems to want us to know him, and how he deals with people. Other gods seem less concerned with us knowing they exist. Or if they do want us to know they exist, they need to find better publishers, because the God that says he exists, has been on the best seller list for quite a while.
A book that is very flawed and full of ancient, outdated practices. Since this god does not revise with the times and speak to modern man, I would not say that this god can be believed in any more than those who don't have some ancient tome.
Unless he died?
Quote Is this an argument based on popularity?
Those are never good arguments.Quote (Stu @ Jan. 25 2010,04:48) Your thread, I believe. There is enough material today alone to cause a whole lecture theatre full of first-year philosophy students to groan in dismay. Good luck! Stuart
Heck, there's enough material in the last few pages to make a 10 year old with a bit of logical thinking moan!Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 25 2010,00:12) You lost another debate and it's not even your debate. Kejonn,
Can a Virgin be artificially inseminated, YES or NO?
I never said this thread was for me alone. But arguing over virgins giving birth is not what this thread is really about in any case.Quote (Stu @ Jan. 25 2010,21:27) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 25 2010,21:13) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 25 2010,18:44) BD are you claiming NOW, that actually the supposed virgin birth of Jesus is credible because artificial insemination is possible with retention of the title 'virgin', even though EARLIER you were claiming that virgin birth of Jesus was credible because sharks undergo parthenogenesis? Which is your view?
Stuart
I asked you can a Virgin give Birth you are in such an advanced stage of The Atheism Disease, you couldn't answer no matter how the question was posed.It's just like when you explained to me that people are born atheist and must be taught God which proved that man could not know about God unless they were taught by God. Which also proves that the person being taught about God would have to have understood.
Are you serious about this artificial insemination pedantry, or are you just quibbling for the sake of it?The person who 'knew about god' might know what the fantasy story says, but that says nothing about the reality or otherwise of the gods described in it. All your paragraph proves is that you don't realise your own non-sequitur.
Stuart
How would that person “Know about God” who would have taught the person if people are born atheist who would have taught this first Atheist about God?Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 25 2010,21:47) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 24 2010,22:23) You said it was based on misguided beliefs are you changing the story now? What if someone believed that thumbs were evil and and believed they had to be removed?
The fact is you don't think that circumcision is child abuse but the quetion is why would anyone decide to circumcize their children and not just you but your whole Nation as Israel did?
Are all Jews misguided parents?
To be truthful, I was addressing the whole gamut of religious beliefs, not just one one particular practice. Jews, Christians, Muslims, Hindus, JWs, Mormons, etc. all have odd practices and beliefs that they teach their children.If you only meant the one practice of circumcision, then no, it would not be real child abuse IMHO.
But to get back to your last question, Jews who follow Torah and have their children do so are misguided parents. They follow some ancient practice invented by priests who said some god told them to do it. Funny thing is that this god doesn't seem to be speaking anymore. And if he does, he says different things (often contradictory) to different people. Funny how that works.
So this one practice of circumcision you find not harmful?Where did those parents get the idea to get their children circumcised?
Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 25 2010,21:57) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 25 2010,00:12) You lost another debate and it's not even your debate. Kejonn,
Can a Virgin be artificially inseminated, YES or NO?
I never said this thread was for me alone. But arguing over virgins giving birth is not what this thread is really about in any case.
Yes or No?Is it your policy to not answer any incriminating questions?
Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 25 2010,12:02) So this one practice of circumcision you find not harmful? Male circumcision no. I'm sure it is painful, and it does end up removing some sensitivity for pleasure later in life, but many believe it to be hygiene related.
Quote Where did those parents get the idea to get their children circumcised?
Jews get it from the Torah. Muslims get it from the Koran. Whoever wrote the Torah got it from the Egyptians. Likely less of a religious issue initially then a hygiene one.Was there supposed to be a point here?
Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 25 2010,12:04) Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 25 2010,21:57) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 25 2010,00:12) You lost another debate and it's not even your debate. Kejonn,
Can a Virgin be artificially inseminated, YES or NO?
I never said this thread was for me alone. But arguing over virgins giving birth is not what this thread is really about in any case.
Yes or No?Is it your policy to not answer any incriminating questions?
Answered in another thread.Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 25 2010,12:21) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 25 2010,12:04) Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 25 2010,21:57) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 25 2010,00:12) You lost another debate and it's not even your debate. Kejonn,
Can a Virgin be artificially inseminated, YES or NO?
I never said this thread was for me alone. But arguing over virgins giving birth is not what this thread is really about in any case.
Yes or No?Is it your policy to not answer any incriminating questions?
Answered in another thread.
And about 7 hours before your response here, if you had bothered to look.Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 26 2010,04:57) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 25 2010,21:27) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 25 2010,21:13) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 25 2010,18:44) BD are you claiming NOW, that actually the supposed virgin birth of Jesus is credible because artificial insemination is possible with retention of the title 'virgin', even though EARLIER you were claiming that virgin birth of Jesus was credible because sharks undergo parthenogenesis? Which is your view?
Stuart
I asked you can a Virgin give Birth you are in such an advanced stage of The Atheism Disease, you couldn't answer no matter how the question was posed.It's just like when you explained to me that people are born atheist and must be taught God which proved that man could not know about God unless they were taught by God. Which also proves that the person being taught about God would have to have understood.
Are you serious about this artificial insemination pedantry, or are you just quibbling for the sake of it?The person who 'knew about god' might know what the fantasy story says, but that says nothing about the reality or otherwise of the gods described in it. All your paragraph proves is that you don't realise your own non-sequitur.
Stuart
How would that person “Know about God” who would have taught the person if people are born atheist who would have taught this first Atheist about God?
Are you serious about this, or are you just quibbling again?Read the origins of your faith. The mythology of your god begins in a polytheistic belief system, where there were invented supernatural beings covering the range of areas where people's pattern-seeking brains decided there was agency, even though they had little clue, for example, about why crops failed and so on. The can't have realised that the sacrifices to the gods of their crops made no difference to the rates of crop success and failure, such is the delusion of believing in the supernatural.
Your question is one of the kind I have seen muslims ask before. Who taught the first man to talk, etc.
Who taught the first man to breathe?! These are absurd questions that just give away a gross lack of understanding about natural history. Of course if you have been turning up to Friday prayers to listen to ignorant incitement for enough years, and your 'education' consisted of rote-learning the koran, then perhaps it is understandable that you would be wide-eyed and pig-ignorant about the most basic concepts.
HOW could they have taught about god if there is no god?
EASILY, because the whole idea is make-believe.
Stuart
Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 26 2010,05:20) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 25 2010,12:02) So this one practice of circumcision you find not harmful? Male circumcision no. I'm sure it is painful, and it does end up removing some sensitivity for pleasure later in life, but many believe it to be hygiene related.
Quote Where did those parents get the idea to get their children circumcised?
Jews get it from the Torah. Muslims get it from the Koran. Whoever wrote the Torah got it from the Egyptians. Likely less of a religious issue initially then a hygiene one.Was there supposed to be a point here?
The Torah states that it was told to Abraham directly from God, is that a lie?Quote (Stu @ Jan. 26 2010,07:19) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 26 2010,04:57) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 25 2010,21:27) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 25 2010,21:13) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 25 2010,18:44) BD are you claiming NOW, that actually the supposed virgin birth of Jesus is credible because artificial insemination is possible with retention of the title 'virgin', even though EARLIER you were claiming that virgin birth of Jesus was credible because sharks undergo parthenogenesis? Which is your view?
Stuart
I asked you can a Virgin give Birth you are in such an advanced stage of The Atheism Disease, you couldn't answer no matter how the question was posed.It's just like when you explained to me that people are born atheist and must be taught God which proved that man could not know about God unless they were taught by God. Which also proves that the person being taught about God would have to have understood.
Are you serious about this artificial insemination pedantry, or are you just quibbling for the sake of it?The person who 'knew about god' might know what the fantasy story says, but that says nothing about the reality or otherwise of the gods described in it. All your paragraph proves is that you don't realise your own non-sequitur.
Stuart
How would that person “Know about God” who would have taught the person if people are born atheist who would have taught this first Atheist about God?
Are you serious about this, or are you just quibbling again?Read the origins of your faith. The mythology of your god begins in a polytheistic belief system, where there were invented supernatural beings covering the range of areas where people's pattern-seeking brains decided there was agency, even though they had little clue, for example, about why crops failed and so on. The can't have realised that the sacrifices to the gods of their crops made no difference to the rates of crop success and failure, such is the delusion of believing in the supernatural.
Your question is one of the kind I have seen muslims ask before. Who taught the first man to talk, etc.
Who taught the first man to breathe?! These are absurd questions that just give away a gross lack of understanding about natural history. Of course if you have been turning up to Friday prayers to listen to ignorant incitement for enough years, and your 'education' consisted of rote-learning the koran, then perhaps it is understandable that you would be wide-eyed and pig-ignorant about the most basic concepts.
HOW could they have taught about god if there is no god?
EASILY, because the whole idea is make-believe.
Stuart
I didn't say anything about the origins of any particular faith I said how would the first Human get the information about God?Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 26 2010,11:05) I didn't say anything about the origins of any particular faith I said how would the first Human get the information about God?
You assumed my position of everyone born atheist, then asked this:Quote How would that person “Know about God” who would have taught the person if people are born atheist who would have taught this first Atheist about God? The answer I gave is, effectively, that your god idea did not exist as a concept at the time of the first humans. As far as it is possible to know, monotheism began in both Egypt and India in the second millennium BCE. Humans have been around since the 185th millenium BCE. So there was a point at which the supremacy of one god (you did use the singular) was asserted over all the other gods. Then you get to henotheism and eventually monotheism in the sense you assert it.
As for 'the information', how did we get 'the information' about the life and times of Sherlock Holmes? Who was the first to teach that truth?
I think you will find it most likely that the two processes not entirely dissimilar.
Stuart
By the way, the other problem with this is the statement “the first human”. There is no such ONE individual. There never has been a time of just one, or two humans.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Jan. 26 2010,11:40) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 26 2010,11:05) I didn't say anything about the origins of any particular faith I said how would the first Human get the information about God?
You assumed my position of everyone born atheist, then asked this:Quote How would that person “Know about God” who would have taught the person if people are born atheist who would have taught this first Atheist about God? The answer I gave is, effectively, that your god idea did not exist as a concept at the time of the first humans. As far as it is possible to know, monotheism began in both Egypt and India in the second millennium BCE. Humans have been around since the 185th millenium BCE. So there was a point at which the supremacy of one god (you did use the singular) was asserted over all the other gods. Then you get to henotheism and eventually monotheism in the sense you assert it.
As for 'the information', how did we get 'the information' about the life and times of Sherlock Holmes? Who was the first to teach that truth?
I think you will find it most likely that the two processes not entirely dissimilar.
Stuart
No Stu,How did any God information come about? Where did the concept and teaching come from and why?
Quote (Stu @ Jan. 26 2010,11:46) By the way, the other problem with this is the statement “the first human”. There is no such ONE individual. There never has been a time of just one, or two humans. Stuart
And your evidence of this is…?Now you are about to lose another point if in your description a multitude of humans occured at the same time who taught all these atheists in different regions of the world about God?
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