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Keith,
As I PM'd you…I will move our discussions over here to our one on one discussion thread in order to keep things together.https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….y297520
You may respond or not but I just need a place where I can see all that we say from this point. Thanks for understanding, Kathi
Kathi,
Start with God – then adjust to Man.
Don't start with Man and claim God must be likewise. This is how you started saying that God is Like a Woman… !!
How do you say the thing that creates is like the thing it created?
No, but the thing created can have qualities of that which created it!You may just have meant that – but it is important to understand the difference else it will have consequences later on if the idea is carried through…
And Keith, you misread t8's post on 'deity'. For t8 said that each is 'THE Deity' – The One Same Deity, not from his bier but what he was saying TRINITARIANS say!
It is this rush to defend that which needs no defending that often leafs to drastic misunderstanding between posters : 'ANYTHING the opponent says MUST BE [treated as] WRONG – no matter the truth of it !!!
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 27 2011,02:00) Quote (t8 @ May 26 2011,04:58) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 28 2011,04:50) Hi Kathi You mean “collective Deities” don't you?
WJ
TRINITY:
The Father is the deity
The Son is the deity
The Spirit is the deity.There you go WJ, a collective of deities.
t8Of course that is a misrepresentation of the Trinitarian view for we believe that the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit are “One Deity” or “One God”.
It is you and Kathi that believe in more than “One Deity”, right?
WJ
Ask yourself WJ.Is the Father a deity
Is the Son a deity
Is the Spirit a deitySee, you have a collection of three persons that are all 100% a deity.
The fact that your doctrine has the clause, “oh and by the way, we also believe that they are one and the same deity and each is 100% that deity” has nothing to do with it.
You still believe that:
Is the Father a deity
Is the Son a deity
Is the Spirit a deityPlease remove the plank from your own eye before asking others to remove a speck that may or may not be there.
Quote (Istari @ May 26 2011,16:21) Kathi,
Start with God – then adjust to Man.
Don't start with Man and claim God must be likewise. This is how you started saying that God is Like a Woman… !!
How do you say the thing that creates is like the thing it created?
No, but the thing created can have qualities of that which created it!You may just have meant that – but it is important to understand the difference else it will have consequences later on if the idea is carried through…
And Keith, you misread t8's post on 'deity'. For t8 said that each is 'THE Deity' – The One Same Deity, not from his bier but what he was saying TRINITARIANS say!
It is this rush to defend that which needs no defending that often leafs to drastic misunderstanding between posters : 'ANYTHING the opponent says MUST BE [treated as] WRONG – no matter the truth of it !!!
I think you believe that the 'thing' that creates is less capable than the 'thing' created. You believe that man can have an offspring with the same nature as himself but God can't.
Kathi – how do you say what you just said: not only is a stupid thing to say, it is also absolutely counter to everything I said in my post.
Kathi, how can you have got things SO WRONG!
Quote (Lightenup @ May 27 2011,02:05) The spirit of man is called the innerman or innerperson.
The son of man is called man.Wouldn't the Spirit of God be the innerperson of God?
Wouldn't the Son of God be called God?
If God Almighty is called Father, can He be called true Father apart from a true Son? If you don't believe in the true and proper Son, then you do not have the true and proper Father. He is only a true and proper Father is there is an offspring that carries His nature. Otherwise He would be called Father by those improperly called sons and thus not a true and proper Father as is one who passes on His nature to His Son.
The spiritual children of the one true God are called gods and yet they are not God as God is God.I am not sure about the innerspirit of God which would probably insterad be the soul of God as spirit has more than one meaning.
Quote (Istari @ May 27 2011,18:16) Kathi – how do you say what you just said: not only is a stupid thing to say, it is also absolutely counter to everything I said in my post. Kathi, how can you have got things SO WRONG!
If she has I can understand how it could have happened – your post is hardly an exemplar for clearly articulated thought…and then you're incredulous (and insulting) because she may have misconstrued it? Little wonder you have 4 tiles.Whoever you are -you do not understand the dynamics in operation here!
Kathi has not 'Misconstrued' my meaning – she has kneejerked and not read what I said because of it.
She simply, like WJ, wants to say that anything said against her is wrong!
So you also are as for her in being a kneejerker!Oh, and I LOVE MY TILES – thank you!!
Wizards love bright spangley colours – do you want to see me make them disappear?(Can someone else tell this person that I can do that in case he thinks I'm just boasting!)
Quote (kerwin @ May 27 2011,02:43) Quote (Lightenup @ May 27 2011,02:05) The spirit of man is called the innerman or innerperson.
The son of man is called man.Wouldn't the Spirit of God be the innerperson of God?
Wouldn't the Son of God be called God?
If God Almighty is called Father, can He be called true Father apart from a true Son? If you don't believe in the true and proper Son, then you do not have the true and proper Father. He is only a true and proper Father is there is an offspring that carries His nature. Otherwise He would be called Father by those improperly called sons and thus not a true and proper Father as is one who passes on His nature to His Son.
The spiritual children of the one true God are called gods and yet they are not God as God is God.I am not sure about the innerspirit of God which would probably insterad be the soul of God as spirit has more than one meaning.
Hi Kerwin,
God begets God who contains the Father God's nature.
A god begets nothing.
God cannot beget a god.
Perfect cannot beget imperfect.and
God adopts sons who partake of His nature.
Only one Son was truly begotten according to His essential nature. That Son is unlike all others.You are right about the meaning of the word 'spirit.' It has different meanings according to context. When we think of man's spirit in the sense of his 'innerperson' we think, or at least I think of what is missing when a person is in their casket. The 'person' is not there, just their 'vessel' remains. I believe that 'they' are with the Lord…absent from the body, present with the Lord. So when I read about the Spirit OF God, I relate it to what I accept about the spirit that He created within humans…an innerperson that can leave the body. However, it seems that the Spirit OF God can be sent and return to God or perhaps be sent without ever completely leaving. I don't know, but the Spirit of God can dwell within us. I have also considered the Spirit of God as His means of omnipresence…kinda like the internet, how I can write something in America and someone else can read it almost immediately in another continent, all wirelessly. Radio waves are everywhere carrying messages to and fro. That creation is amazing to me…how much more the creator of the creation is!
Have a blessed day,
KathiQuote (t8 @ May 26 2011,19:23) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 27 2011,02:00) Quote (t8 @ May 26 2011,04:58) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 28 2011,04:50) Hi Kathi You mean “collective Deities” don't you?
WJ
TRINITY:
The Father is the deity
The Son is the deity
The Spirit is the deity.There you go WJ, a collective of deities.
t8Of course that is a misrepresentation of the Trinitarian view for we believe that the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit are “One Deity” or “One God”.
It is you and Kathi that believe in more than “One Deity”, right?
WJ
Ask yourself WJ.Is the Father a deity
Is the Son a deity
Is the Spirit a deitySee, you have a collection of three persons that are all 100% a deity.
The fact that your doctrine has the clause, “oh and by the way, we also believe that they are one and the same deity and each is 100% that deity” has nothing to do with it.
You still believe that:
Is the Father a deity
Is the Son a deity
Is the Spirit a deityPlease remove the plank from your own eye before asking others to remove a speck that may or may not be there.
t8It is simple. I believe in “One Deity”, One Divine Being” and you don't.
You believe in more than one “Divine Being”.
According to the scriptures is Jesus “Deity” or not?
WJ
Quote (Lightenup @ May 28 2011,04:24) Hi Paul,
Thank you!I appreciate you stepping in,
Kathi
No problem. Not that you need in Kathi, you can look after yourself just fine, I just thought the whole tenor of that post was obnoxious.So, Is… Now I remember you – you were that one I said I wouldn't discuss with because it was ready a lost cause -…. Nothing changed then!
If Kathi thinks that me saying that
– 'the one who creates is greater than that which it creates'
means
– 'that that which creates is LESS than that which created it'
and you defend that, then 'IS' you need to go back to kindergarten!!If you believe that 'God is like a woman' then you have seriously got your priorities wrong!
You see one thing and do not know the history of it – and make a judgement – incorrect judgement at that – doubly wrong you IS!
I am pointing out to Kathi that once again she has got her reasoning wrong and if left this way will lead to others adopting similar poses.
Kathi equates God incubating Jesus before giving birth – this is giving PRECEDENCE to a Humsn concept over the divine… Incubation is for the Flesh – not the Spirit!Quote (Istari @ May 28 2011,19:57) So, Is… Now I remember you – you were that one I said I wouldn't discuss with because it was ready a lost cause -…. Nothing changed then!
Huh?Quote (Istari @ May 28 2011,19:57) If Kathi thinks that me saying that
– 'the one who creates is greater than that which it creates'
means
– 'that that which creates is LESS than that which created it'
and you defend that, then 'IS' you need to go back to kindergarten!!If you believe that 'God is like a woman' then you have seriously got your priorities wrong!
You see one thing and do not know the history of it – and make a judgement – incorrect judgement at that – doubly wrong you IS!
I am pointing out to Kathi that once again she has got her reasoning wrong and if left this way will lead to others adopting similar poses.
Kathi equates God incubating Jesus before giving birth – this is giving PRECEDENCE to a Humsn concept over the divine… Incubation is for the Flesh – not the Spirit!
I'm skeptical that Kathi wrote what you have quoted. I think it's more probably that you've taken her out of context or have misconstrued what she wrote altogether. But you're entitled to prove me wrong by quoting her. Cite the thread links.Error – no editing rights – t8….!!!
'If Kathi thinks that me saying that
– 'the one who creates is greater than that which it creates'
means THAT
– 'that which creates is LESS than that which IT createS'….IS, why don't you just ask Kathi !!
Many people read somethings and 'readjust' the meaning to what they THINK the person is saying BECAUSE they WANT TO THINK that that was what the person was saying.
In Kathi's case this is exactly what she did because there was no way what I said – or would ever say – amounts to 'That which is created is greater than that which created it!!' – now that IS – a 'Huh!' moment…
God creates Man – Man is greater than God!!!! Eh?
Man creates Robot – Robot is greater than Man? Nah!!! Only in Science fiction!My point to Kathi was that she was saying that God is assuming the attributes of that which he created – not so, Kathi! And that she has done that before – which seems a trait that she needs to be aware of in her thinking…Check the precedence !
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