Kathy What Do You Mean By Preexisting Sonship?

[kerwin]

I believe that the human being that would be named Jesus came into being in the womb of Mary and inherited the Spirit of Christ before he was ever tempted by evil.

I do not believe his inheritance of the Spirit of God made him God or a part of God.  It did make him part of the Unity fo the Spirit otherwise known as Elohim.

Is this your understanding.  If not then what is the difference and what scriptures convince you of such?

Note: Edited to place the correct name “Jesus” in the first paragraph. Sorry if I confused anyone.

[Lightenup]

Hi Kerwin,
I would be happy to discuss this with you. Please tell me what you mean by the 'inherited spirit of Christ.' I want to understand what you are saying before I respond.

Thanks,
Kathi

[kerwin]

Quote (Lightenup @ April 23 2011,10:50)

Hi Kerwin, I would be happy to discuss this with you.  Please tell me what you mean by the 'inherited spirit of Christ.'  I want to understand what you are saying before I respond. Thanks, Kathi

This definition from the Merriam-Webster online dictionary fits what I mean.

Quote

to come into possession of or receive especially as a right or divine portion

[Lightenup]

Kerwin,
My understanding of the term pre-existent Son is an only begotten divine Son that has a mind and a will and a spirit…He was within the Father as an offspring that always existed, and then was begotten/born from the Father to work with Him…equal in nature to the Father just like a literal son would be…equally divine.

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17“For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18“He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

There are many scriptures to show bits and pieces but for now, maybe you can read this which explains my understanding better than I can:

http://gill.biblecommenter.com/john/1.htm

[terraricca]

Quote (Lightenup @ April 24 2011,18:48)

Kerwin, My understanding of the term pre-existent Son is an only begotten divine Son that has a mind and a will and a spirit…He was within the Father as an offspring that always existed, and then was begotten/born from the Father to work with Him…equal in nature to the Father just like a literal son would be…equally divine. John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17“For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18“He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. There are many scriptures to show bits and pieces but for now, maybe you can read this which explains my understanding better than I can: http://gill.biblecommenter.com/john/1.htm

Kathi

the son was not in the father unless God make the will to create the son ,there is no son,

so wen it says he is the first of all creation ,the son is just that ,the first in the will of God to create ,

read gene 1;2 ….and God says let the ………and it was so…

Pierre

[Lightenup]

Pierre and Kerwin,
It doesn't say that He is the first of all creation…it says that He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation and then goes on to say that all things came into being by Him.

The Son is deity, one with the Father, He is eternal…was always within the Father, not as an act of the will, and then, before the ages was begotten which was an act of the will. Since then, the Son has come from and returns to the Father. In the OT, we see Him as the Jehovah who can be seen and His Father is the unseen Jehovah…both one in deity but not the same being.

Kathi

[kerwin]

Kathy,

What do you mean by the word “deity”?

Edited to correct spelling after Kathy alerted me to my error. My thanks to her.

[Lightenup]

Kerwin,

I think you mean 'deity.' Deity, true deity, all who have divine nature and are represented collectively as one deity and/or independently as individuals depending on the context, i.e. the Father and the Son collectively represent one deity and they each are deity in their person although they are not ever independent of each other. In other words, there wasn't first the Father and then later the Father and the Son with their Spirit. There was always a collective deity even from eternity.

Kathi

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Lightenup @ April 27 2011,08:03)

Kerwin, I think you mean 'deity.'  Deity, true deity,  all who have divine nature and are represented collectively as one deity and/or independently as individuals depending on the context, i.e. the Father and the Son collectively represent one deity and they each are deity in their person although they are not ever independent of each other. In other words, there wasn't first the Father and then later the Father and the Son with their Spirit.  There was always a collective deity even from eternity. Kathi

Hi Kathi

You mean “collective Deities” don't you?
WJ

[Baker]

Kathy!
Rev 3:14 ¶ And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

Jesus is the beginning of Gods creation.

Peace Irene

[terraricca]

Quote (Lightenup @ April 28 2011,07:03)

Kerwin, I think you mean 'deity.'  Deity, true deity,  all who have divine nature and are represented collectively as one deity and/or independently as individuals depending on the context, i.e. the Father and the Son collectively represent one deity and they each are deity in their person although they are not ever independent of each other. In other words, there wasn't first the Father and then later the Father and the Son with their Spirit.  There was always a collective deity even from eternity. Kathi

Kathi

there you go again on one of your trips in the dream arena of your mind.

no to all your comment

Pierre

[Lightenup]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 27 2011,12:50)

Quote (Lightenup @ April 27 2011,08:03) Kerwin, I think you mean 'deity.'  Deity, true deity,  all who have divine nature and are represented collectively as one deity and/or independently as individuals depending on the context, i.e. the Father and the Son collectively represent one deity and they each are deity in their person although they are not ever independent of each other. In other words, there wasn't first the Father and then later the Father and the Son with their Spirit.  There was always a collective deity even from eternity. Kathi Hi Kathi You mean “collective Deities” don't you? WJ

No Keith…read again.

[Lightenup]

Quote (Baker @ April 27 2011,16:39)

Kathy!   Rev 3:14 ¶ And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;   Jesus is the beginning of Gods creation. Peace Irene

Here Irene,
Read this for understanding on that verse:

The beginning of the creation of God; not the first creature that God made, but the first cause of the creation; the first Parent, producer, and efficient cause of every creature; the author of the old creation, who made all things out of nothing in the beginning of time; and of the new creation, the everlasting Father of, everyone that is made a new creature; the Father of the world to come, or of the new age and Gospel dispensation; the Maker of the new heaven and new earth; and so a very fit person to be the Judge of the whole world, to summon all nations before him, and pass the final sentence on them. The phrase is Jewish, and it is a title the Jews give to Metatron, by whom they sometimes mean the Messiah; so those words in Genesis 24:2, and Abraham said unto his eldest servant of his house, they paraphrase thus (b),

“”and Abraham said unto his servant”, this is Metatron, (or the Mediator,) the servant of God, “the eldest of his house”; for he is , “the beginning of the creation of God”, who rules over all that he has; for to him the holy blessed God has given the government of all his hosts.

Christ is the “the Prince”, or Governor of all creatures,

from here under Gill's commentary:

http://bible.cc/revelation/3-14.htm

Peace to you too,
Kathi

[Pastry]

Quote (Lightenup @ May 01 2011,15:58)

Quote (Baker @ April 27 2011,16:39) Kathy!   Rev 3:14 ¶ And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;   Jesus is the beginning of Gods creation. Peace Irene Here Irene, Read this for understanding on that verse: The beginning of the creation of God; not the first creature that God made, but the first cause of the creation; the first Parent, producer, and efficient cause of every creature; the author of the old creation, who made all things out of nothing in the beginning of time; and of the new creation, the everlasting Father of, everyone that is made a new creature; the Father of the world to come, or of the new age and Gospel dispensation; the Maker of the new heaven and new earth; and so a very fit person to be the Judge of the whole world, to summon all nations before him, and pass the final sentence on them. The phrase is Jewish, and it is a title the Jews give to Metatron, by whom they sometimes mean the Messiah; so those words in Genesis 24:2, and Abraham said unto his eldest servant of his house, they paraphrase thus (b), “”and Abraham said unto his servant”, this is Metatron, (or the Mediator,) the servant of God, “the eldest of his house”; for he is , “the beginning of the creation of God”, who rules over all that he has; for to him the holy blessed God has given the government of all his hosts. Christ is the “the Prince”, or Governor of all creatures, from here under Gill's commentary: http://bible.cc/revelation/3-14.htm Peace to you too, Kathi

Kathi! So a man says something much different then what three Scriptures say in
Rev 3:14 ¶ And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

The new creation in Jesus the head of the Church Jesus is in

Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.

Jesus is the firstborn OF ALL CREATION< AND ALSO THE FIRSTBORN FROM THE DEATH…the start or the beginning of the Church of God……Our Lord of Lords and Kings of Kings….
Kathi, you put way to much as truth from commentaries…..Even though Jesus is all of that, but the point is that He didn't just exist in Almighty Gods mind. He existed as a Spirit Being, He also had a beginning, before the world was……There is no Scripture that says He existecd from all eternity…..
Peace Irene

[Proclaimer]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 28 2011,04:50)

Hi Kathi You mean “collective Deities” don't you? WJ

TRINITY:
The Father is the deity
The Son is the deity
The Spirit is the deity.

There you go WJ, a collective of deities.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (t8 @ May 26 2011,04:58)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 28 2011,04:50) Hi Kathi You mean “collective Deities” don't you? WJ TRINITY: The Father is the deity The Son is the deity The Spirit is the deity. There you go WJ, a collective of deities.

t8

Of course that is a misrepresentation of the Trinitarian view for we believe that the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit are “One Deity” or “One God”.

It is you and Kathi that believe in more than “One Deity”, right?  

WJ

[Pastry]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 27 2011,02:00)

Quote (t8 @ May 26 2011,04:58) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 28 2011,04:50) Hi Kathi You mean “collective Deities” don't you? WJ TRINITY: The Father is the deity The Son is the deity The Spirit is the deity. There you go WJ, a collective of deities. t8 Of course that is a misrepresentation of the Trinitarian view for we believe that the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit are “One Deity” or “One God”. It is you and Kathi that believe in more than “One Deity”, right?   WJ

Keith!  We came out of the Catholic Church and taught all 3 of our Children the trinity.  It is Three person s in one    If they are all deity??? If the are all the same, which they are all one, they are also all three deity…..So in that I agree what t8 said….Peace Irene

[Istari]

The Spirit is OF the Deity… (The Spirit OF God)
The Son is OF the Deity… (The Son OF God)
The Father is …what?… OF the Deity??? (The Father OF God??)

The Father
|
OF
/ \
The Son– — The Holy Spirit

Who IS the Deity (Almighty God)?
What is God's name?
What is the name of the Father?
What is the name of the Holy Spirit?
What is the name of the Son

[Lightenup]

The spirit of man is called the innerman or innerperson.
The son of man is called man.

Wouldn't the Spirit of God be the innerperson of God?
Wouldn't the Son of God be called God?
If God Almighty is called Father, can He be called true Father apart from a true Son? If you don't believe in the true and proper Son, then you do not have the true and proper Father. He is only a true and proper Father is there is an offspring that carries His nature. Otherwise He would be called Father by those improperly called sons and thus not a true and proper Father as is one who passes on His nature to His Son.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Hold on there Kathi…

You said…

“Otherwise He would be called Father by those improperly called sons and thus not a true and proper Father as is one who passes on His nature to His Son.”

When was there a time that Jesus did not have the nature of God? You have repeatedly said Jesus always existed in the Father sharing the same “essence” or nature with the Father yet now you are saying…

“the Father passes on his nature to his Son” is that correct?

WJ

[Author]

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