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Quote (t8 @ Dec. 17 2009,19:56) Yawn. Wake me up if Stu ever gets interesting.
Ed still hasn't answered the questions you posed in your first reply to him.He hasn't given any answer to mine either.
Ed doesn't seem to want to take his own advice about asking a god into his life.
Have you tried calling out to Jupiter to ask him to demonstrate the reality of his existence to you t8?
Let me know how you get on.
Stuart
Show me a book that prophecies in the name of Jupiter and predicts the future.
A large part of the bible is prophecy. If you wanted proof that the bible was a load of cobblers that would be the best place to start. It is something tangible or should I say, something that you can test.
You could try and disprove that the bible didn't say that Israel would be reinstated and that the Jews would speak Hebrew in the last days. Fulfilled thousands of years later. Nothing like it has happened before. Just look at Israel today. They are not only there, but they are prospering and their enemies are many. It seems that this needed to happen in order for what is left to come to pass.
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.Anyway Stu. If you perish, then that is your choice and no one else's to make. God respects your decisions. Even if they ultimately end in your own destruction, he gave you a will and it is your will to do with it as you will.
Stu,
Its called a HIGHER POWER as AA would put it
If I had to rely on my own power id be pretty lost
A light to guide the way out of the darkness
Proof isnt needed its called faith (believing what cant be seen
Spirit
Cool
And I as a child of God am not like a person in a dress in a church singing hymns. I dress different, smoke, and listen to music thats not classed as religeous, and I get really drunk sometimes when iv just had enough, but God understands, he is my REAL FATHER in heaven
And as God is just, and many people are innocent victims of crime where justice is never had, “Vengeance is mine saith the Lord”
But an eye for an eye tooth for tooth, punishment could not be eternal suffering in a burning hell thats just rubbish that cold hearted people have to believe
t8
Quote Show me a book that prophecies in the name of Jupiter and predicts the future.
I could write one for you if you want. I will have my characters make predictions of solar eclipses in the name of Jupiter that will be so accurate that readers will see supposed book of prophecies as the blind guessing or writing that is not meant to be prophecy at all that it is.Quote A large part of the bible is prophecy. If you wanted proof that the bible was a load of cobblers that would be the best place to start. It is something tangible or should I say, something that you can test.
Let’s say your hypothesis was that Isaiah made predictions about the life of Jesus. How would that be measured? Would we expect the writers of Isaiah to give the name of Jesus translated into some language? Might we expect to read specifically of crucifixion? Would it say that Jesus walked on water, or was resurrected?Do the writers of Isaiah do any of that? Are any of those things actually true of Jesus? Isaiah says the bit about being born of a virgin, but can you show that the gospel writers did not simply invent that to fulfil the ‘prophecy’? Even if the gospels could be considered reliable, there is no way they could be reasonably argued for in terms of Jesus’s birth and childhood. The whole thing is almost certainly a bluff.
I think you might have a hard time proving or disproving any biblical prophecy. Especially with all the allegorical interpretations that people put on it. You won’t have any of that nonsense with Stu’s Book of Jupiter. The prophecy in that will be so good you will be able to set your watch by it.
Quote You could try and disprove that the bible didn't say that Israel would be reinstated and that the Jews would speak Hebrew in the last days. Fulfilled thousands of years later. Nothing like it has happened before. Just look at Israel today. They are not only there, but they are prospering and their enemies are many. It seems that this needed to happen in order for what is left to come to pass.
If none of the zionists who established Israel had ever read their holy books, or yours, then I might be interested. However, if you cannot understand the idea of working hard to fulfil prophecy, and its relationship of the political history of the 20th Century then I don’t think you are ready to comment.Quote 2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
…but watch out if you are a good man who has not accepted the human sacrifice of Jesus. You will be resurrected from death so you can feel pain, then burned in order to punish you and destroy you again, by a loving, forgiving deity.Quote Anyway Stu. If you perish, then that is your choice and no one else's to make. God respects your decisions. Even if they ultimately end in your own destruction, he gave you a will and it is your will to do with it as you will.
I will that this god be brought to justice.Of course, it is a pretty pointless wish, isn’t it. I may as well wish that Darth Vader be brought to justice.
Stuart
Hi karmarie
Good to hear from you in the thread that bears your name!
Quote Its called a HIGHER POWER as AA would put it
Yes, the psychological effect appears to be essential for some desperate people. The Boy Scouts insist on belief in a higher power. Are they desperate too, I wonder.Quote If I had to rely on my own power id be pretty lost . A light to guide the way out of the darkness
In dark ages people are best guided by religion, as in a pitch-black night a blind man is the best guide; he knows the roads and paths better than a man who can see. When daylight comes, however, it is foolish to use blind old men as guides. – Heinrich HeineQuote Proof isnt needed its called faith (believing what cant be seen
That’s fine for you. Please do not expect me to believe it though.Quote And I as a child of God am not like a person in a dress in a church singing hymns. I dress different, smoke, and listen to music thats not classed as religeous, and I get really drunk sometimes when iv just had enough, but God understands, he is my REAL FATHER in heaven
The only thing you should change, in my opinion, not that I know you well enough or have any right to tell you what to do, is to cut out the smoking, and go easy on the alcohol for the sake of your liver.You could add not believing in a god that punishes good people, too. Poor Uzzah was only trying to help. He was punished by divine smiting, apparently. As an atheist, I will be dug up from my grave, sparked back into life and then set on fire as a vengeful act of punishment by your god because I do not go along with accepting human sacrifices for selfish gain. Do you think that is reasonable?
Quote And as God is just, and many people are innocent victims of crime where justice is never had, “Vengeance is mine saith the Lord”
And what of forgiveness?Quote But an eye for an eye tooth for tooth, punishment could not be eternal suffering in a burning hell thats just rubbish that cold hearted people have to believe
My idea of hell is eternal existence, never having a final day to give meaning to my life (whatever form it might take). There you are in heaven, endlessly worshipping a god that has few morals that humans can understand, with no particular reason to do anything today because there is ALWAYS tomorrow.The good news is actually that none of these myths are true.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Dec. 17 2009,21:29) made predictions about the life of Jesus. How would that be measured? Might we expect to read specifically of crucifixion?
Hi Stuart,How many words are attributed to “diety”, the majority equal 63.
The “Divine”=63 “Deity”=63 of “The Bible”=63 is “YHVH”=63.How many words are attributed Jesus directly, the majority equal 74.
The “Gospel”=74: is “Jesus”=74 dying on the “cross”=74 and resurrected by God The Father.
Jesus REAL name in “English”=74 is “Joshua”=74; he is the “Messiah”=74.Though his name is not mentioned, here is the Prophesy!
Isaiah 53:10-12 Yet it pleased the LORD(YHVH) to bruise him(Jesus); he hath put him to grief:
when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed(us Christians),
He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many;
for he shall bear their iniquities. Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great,
and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death:
and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.Here is the crucifixion account!
Psalm 22:1- My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Our fathers trusted in thee: they trusted, and thou didst deliver them.
They cried unto thee, and were delivered: they trusted in thee, and were not confounded.
But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.
All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying ,
He trusted on the LORD that he would deliver him: let him deliver But thou art he that took me out of the womb:
thou didst make me hope when I was upon my mother's breasts.
I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother's belly.
Be not far from me; for trouble is near; for there is none to help.
Many bulls have compassed me: strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round.
They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravening and a roaring lion.
I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax;
it is melted in the midst of my bowels. My strength is dried up like a potsherd;
and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.
For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.
I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.
They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture(The Gospel writers specifically mention this).
But be not thou far from me, O LORD: O my strength, haste thee to help me.
Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog.
Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns(wild ox).
I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee.
Ye that fear the LORD, praise him; all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him; and fear him, all ye the seed of Israel.
For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.
My praise shall be of thee in the great congregation: I will pay my vows before them that fear him.
The meek shall eat and be satisfied: they shall praise the LORD that seek him: your heart shall live for ever.
All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.
For the kingdom is the LORD'S: and he is the governor among the nations.
All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.
A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.
They shall come, and shall declare his(Jesus) righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that he(YHVH) hath done this.There is plenty of evidence of the REAL God's existence!
All the significant Biblical ideas (though NOT all) follow this pattern…
“The Key”=74
1) 117 GOD The Father=117
2) 74 Jesus=74
3) 151 Holy Spirit=151
4) 63 YHVH=63 (GOD: The Eternal Existing One)5) יהוה =26 is “GOD”=26 spoken as YÄ=26!
This “pattern” illustrates both views of GOD, trinitarian and non-trinitarian views(they BOTH are right); and can showed as a simple “Box Graph”.
I show and “fully” explain this box graph representation of God in the free e-book called “HolyCityBibleCode”; plus much more.Let me know if you want me to e-mail it to you; it is in PDF.
God bless,
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (t8 @ Nov. 12 2009,20:56)
Quote Or would it be better to have another category for other faiths including the Muslim faith? I think this would have been better,
With protection, as the believers section
(against Athiests posting)I agree with Karmarie except I believe Atheists should also be able to post in that section everyone has the right to engage
Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 18 2009,10:59) Quote (t8 @ Nov. 12 2009,20:56) Quote Or would it be better to have another category for other faiths including the Muslim faith? I think this would have been better,
With protection, as the believers section
(against Athiests posting)I agree with Karmarie except I believe Atheists should also be able to post in that section everyone has the right to engage
Hi BD,Welcome back.
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (t8 @ Dec. 18 2009,12:11) Isn't that what we have now BD? An area where all can post and express their doubts and skepticism.
Other faiths are not doubts or scepticism.When I first joined here I admired your sense of Justice and was quite disappointed in your false vote, really it was like stealing an election from someone.
plus your pointing and seperating me out specifically showed hypocrisy on your behalf. Really, how could you then argue soundly with someone about the trinity or other things you are totally against when you have made it clear that you consider those beliefs as “acceptable”
You have even allowed those who consider themselves sceptics to post as believers over me who does not consider myself a sceptic, I don't really care about posting at this point but I am really trying to get through to you your blatant hypocrisy.
I love what ED is doing and yet according to your belief he should be considered practicing the occult but you simply don't take him seriously(perhaps that's good) otherwise, you would persecute him too.
I see you are here high fiving WJ a polytheist are you now a trinitarian? Nick, calls WJ's belief that of worshiping a whore and says to WJ to come out of that whore, do you believe that WJ is with the Whore of Babylon and yet High Five and agree against me?
Nick remains silent after all his bravado injustice happens right in his face and silence is all that is heard.
T8, I don't know what you were like before this site started but perhaps you have been corrupted.
COME OUT OF HER! and stop HIGH FIVING her showing approval for her ways.
Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 18 2009,13:03) Other faiths are not doubts or scepticism.
They are when it comes to the bible and what is written in there. You have even expressed skepticism yourself regarding the preservation and teachings in the bible have you not?Heaven Net was from it's inception a site where people could question what they were taught using scripture.
If you question scripture itself, then that was never going to be helpful to that mission. Yet even given that, you still have a category where your skepticism can be voiced. I am not sure why you think you have been hard done by. It is just about keeping an orderly structure that is helpful to all.
bd, I disagree with the Trinity doctrine. I believe it is a doctrine of the whore. So this site is helping those who are caught up in her ways using the very scriptures that they supposedly hold dear.
But other faiths voice skepticism of scripture and what is written therein.
Given that, it is logical to have a place where people who believe scripture that Jesus is the messiah and son of God to discuss topics whereas those who are skeptical of scripture and the identity of Jesus as the son of God, can discuss their skepticism.
Mixing the two into one group is too chaotic and every topic would inevitably degenerate into “is Jesus the son of God” and with atheist contribution it would fall even further to, “God does not exist so why bother talking about this topic”.
I have been in this forum for 10 years now, and I know that this is what happens.
Oh, I should mention BD, that it says “come out of her my people” when talking of the Whore. The keywords here are MY PEOPLE.
Ed
Very pleased to see you move onto a new topic Ed. The numerology is a load of dull nonsense.
So, to the writers of Isaiah, whoever they were:
I am poured out like water,
Immanuel will be bled to deathand all my bones are out of joint:
Immanuel will suffer drawing and quarteringmy heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.
Immanuel will be burned at the stakeand my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.
Immanuel will be killed by thirst? Starvation? Dragged through the dust by wild horses?For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.
Immanuel will suffer crucifixion!I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.
Immanuel will be flayed to death.How did Jesus die? What was his name again? Talk about hedging your bets.
Convince me of this:
The gospel writers, in copying one another based on an allegorical oral tradition, did not simply invent a crucifixion martyrdom for their judicially executed messiah, for political motives.
Don’t forget that Josephus and Tacitus were not eyewitnesses to Jesus, and they were recording what christians told them, not reporting on any official records or likewise.
Stuart
Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 18 2009,13:03) Quote (t8 @ Dec. 18 2009,12:11) Isn't that what we have now BD? An area where all can post and express their doubts and skepticism.
Other faiths are not doubts or scepticism.When I first joined here I admired your sense of Justice and was quite disappointed in your false vote, really it was like stealing an election from someone.
plus your pointing and seperating me out specifically showed hypocrisy on your behalf. Really, how could you then argue soundly with someone about the trinity or other things you are totally against when you have made it clear that you consider those beliefs as “acceptable”
You have even allowed those who consider themselves sceptics to post as believers over me who does not consider myself a sceptic, I don't really care about posting at this point but I am really trying to get through to you your blatant hypocrisy.
I love what ED is doing and yet according to your belief he should be considered practicing the occult but you simply don't take him seriously(perhaps that's good) otherwise, you would persecute him too.
I see you are here high fiving WJ a polytheist are you now a trinitarian? Nick, calls WJ's belief that of worshiping a whore and says to WJ to come out of that whore, do you believe that WJ is with the Whore of Babylon and yet High Five and agree against me?
Nick remains silent after all his bravado injustice happens right in his face and silence is all that is heard.
T8, I don't know what you were like before this site started but perhaps you have been corrupted.
COME OUT OF HER! and stop HIGH FIVING her showing approval for her ways.
Amen!Quote (Stu @ Dec. 17 2009,21:53) Hi karmarie Good to hear from you in the thread that bears your name!
Quote Its called a HIGHER POWER as AA would put it
Yes, the psychological effect appears to be essential for some desperate people. The Boy Scouts insist on belief in a higher power. Are they desperate too, I wonder.Quote If I had to rely on my own power id be pretty lost . A light to guide the way out of the darkness
In dark ages people are best guided by religion, as in a pitch-black night a blind man is the best guide; he knows the roads and paths better than a man who can see. When daylight comes, however, it is foolish to use blind old men as guides. – Heinrich HeineQuote Proof isnt needed its called faith (believing what cant be seen
That’s fine for you. Please do not expect me to believe it though.Quote And I as a child of God am not like a person in a dress in a church singing hymns. I dress different, smoke, and listen to music thats not classed as religeous, and I get really drunk sometimes when iv just had enough, but God understands, he is my REAL FATHER in heaven
The only thing you should change, in my opinion, not that I know you well enough or have any right to tell you what to do, is to cut out the smoking, and go easy on the alcohol for the sake of your liver.You could add not believing in a god that punishes good people, too. Poor Uzzah was only trying to help. He was punished by divine smiting, apparently. As an atheist, I will be dug up from my grave, sparked back into life and then set on fire as a vengeful act of punishment by your god because I do not go along with accepting human sacrifices for selfish gain. Do you think that is reasonable?
Quote And as God is just, and many people are innocent victims of crime where justice is never had, “Vengeance is mine saith the Lord”
And what of forgiveness?Quote But an eye for an eye tooth for tooth, punishment could not be eternal suffering in a burning hell thats just rubbish that cold hearted people have to believe
My idea of hell is eternal existence, never having a final day to give meaning to my life (whatever form it might take). There you are in heaven, endlessly worshipping a god that has few morals that humans can understand, with no particular reason to do anything today because there is ALWAYS tomorrow.The good news is actually that none of these myths are true.
Stuart
Stu,Iv been where you are before too,
Even Mother Theresa had her doubts for a while
I'm not a big fan of Mother Theresa!
And not just because she was a bigot and mindless promoter of Catholicism.
To be honest, from what you say I don't think you have been where I am.
I have never felt like christianity is an answer to anything, let alone personal issues. From what I have observed it just adds to the confusion by providing false certainty and the immoral philosophy of celebrating human sacrifice with the empty promise of vengeful punishment on others.
Not nice, to put it mildly.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Dec. 18 2009,16:00) Ed Very pleased to see you move onto a new topic Ed. The numerology is a load of dull nonsense.
Stuart
Hi Stuart,At one point I believe you said something like mathematics can be solid proof.
But when I give you numbers verification you say…
'to tedious'
'dull nonsense'What is it, are mathematics proof or no?
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
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