- This topic is empty.
- Posts
I mildly resent your cheap attempts to prostyletise at me.
How about you have a think about the absurdities you believe and ask yourself if it might not be time to follow the advice of Saul of Tarsus and leave childish things behind you? (not that he did himself mind you).
Proof to me is something that can only be provided in mathematics which is self-referential. Outside that, 'proof' could be taken, although not strictly correctly, as the body of evidence that demonstrates something is a fact, ie something that it would be perverse to deny.
Is the existence of your god a fact that would be perverse to deny?
I'm not sure what you think god is, and you probably don't know what other people think god is either, but if it is anything like the thing described in Judeo-christian mythology then I would suggest to you that given all the evidence (and lack of evidence) we have, it is perverse to assert that there is any such thing as this god you imagine, and it is not perverse to call the bluff of the believer (or the delusion) as something that could not reasonably be rejected with as much evidence as it is asserted, ie none.
You have not even analysed your numerology in terms of the probabilities that you might use to demonstrate that there is anything remarkable going on. Of course, a rigorous statistical treatment of your writing would show that there is nothing going on at all.
Stuart
90210
Atheists say that believers are deluded for carrying such nonsense in their heads (well some of them do, anyway). 'Salvation' is a nonsense concept that is an abuse of the noble nature of humanity. The promise of 'eternal life' is a cheque drawn on a bank that cannot be shown to exist. Would you accept that kind of cheque if it was an offer of financial payment?
You are downplaying the scriptures: this god is punishing people through destruction by fire in an act of punishing vengeance, people who, outside the nonsense concept of 'rejecting god' have only done good. For the vast majority of people, the only way you could really say they have done 'bad' is to not bother with religious traditions, and who are you to say you have the right set of religious traditions for people to avert the violence of your petulant god?
What kind of a punishment is this anyway? The central nervous system does not function after death, so all this god will be guilty of is offering indignities to a corpse.
What a mindless belief system this is.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Dec. 16 2009,15:59) Proof to me is something that can only be provided in mathematics which is self-referential. Outside that, 'proof' could be taken, although not strictly correctly, as the body of evidence that demonstrates something is a fact
Hi Stuart,I offer you mathematics, and nonrandom anomalies.
My God, is a God of love [YHVH(63) + Love(54)=117]!Please don't let futuristic threats dissuade you from putting the REAL God to the test, as I have suggested.
You may even say the God of Ed J if you like; but at least give my suggestion a try(outloud); OK?I don't go for bullying tactics either, so your not alone.
You deserve more respect than cheap shots like that!God Bless you Stuart,
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgEd if you found what you thought was a fossil you would probably be inclined to take it to a paleontologist to get a professional appraisal before you proclaimed it the condyle of a new ancestral hominid. Have you ever asked the professional opinion of a statistian about the probabilities associated with your writing, which is either a profound set of coincidences that warrant some investigation (for example to ascertain whether the writers of the KJV were clever conspirators) or just quite low correlation of numbers that are linked by no significant relationship at all?
I'm afraid I will not be talking to myself regarding your god. That would be a precedent for testing each of the thousands of gods that have been invented by humans over the millennia, an experiment which I have neither the time nor inclination to perform, and for which in any case there is no objective means of measurement of any results.
Have you followed your own advice, by the way? Have you tried inviting the African god Juju into your life by calling out aloud to it?
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Dec. 16 2009,18:29) Ed if you found what you thought was a fossil you would probably be inclined to take it to a paleontologist to get a professional appraisal before you proclaimed it the condyle of a new ancestral hominid. Have you ever asked the professional opinion of a statistian about the probabilities associated with your writing, which is either a profound set of coincidences that warrant some investigation (for example to ascertain whether the writers of the KJV were clever conspirators) or just quite low correlation of numbers that are linked by no significant relationship at all? I'm afraid I will not be talking to myself regarding your god. That would be a precedent for testing each of the thousands of gods that have been invented by humans over the millennia, an experiment which I have neither the time nor inclination to perform, and for which in any case there is no objective means of measurement of any results.
Have you followed your own advice, by the way? Have you tried inviting the African god Juju into your life by calling out aloud to it?
Stuart
Hi Stuart,I agree probability factors should be calculated by a certified mathematician.
As far as the AKJV translators conspiring to create these anomalies, this can be discounted for a number of reasons.
1) How successful do you think 54 translators could keep a secret, such as you propose?
2) These translators were under strict orders from King James I of England to do a “word for word” translation;
This would add much constraint to accomplish such a task.3) Certainly and conspirator from 1603-1611 could NOT see through time to put my personal name(עד=74 Ed) in The Bible?
I'm sure there are more reasons than these, but this is all I can think of right now.
I realize my request might seem silly to you.
The results of the test would entirely be determined by you.
Are you afraid to give it a try, you got nothing to loose?
You might find out us silly Christians are actually correct in our assertions.You will spend hours on this internet forum, but NOT willing say a simple silly phrase out loud that will take less than 15 seconds?
I have showed you both plenty of statical information, and respect that few are willing to give you, plus my time, I humbly ask you to reconsider.
God's word declares for a certainty you will get results, because…There are two unchangeable things about God; they are…
1) …Hebrews 6:18 That by two immutable(unchangeable) things, in which it is “impossible for God to lie”…
2) …2Timothy 13 If we(Stuart) believe not, yet he(God) abideth faithful: “he cannot deny himself “.I suggest when nobody is around(so you don't sound silly), say “outloud”…
God, if you are real, prove yourself to me.
Then see for yourself if 'your(my) invisible friend' is REAL or no.
And you also determine the results of the test. You will definitely find out that he is!Your friend,
Ed JI look forward to you getting the analysis done and reporting to us the results. Then your wild and wide-ranging speculation can be assessed to see if any of it was warranted.
You didn't answer my question by the way, have you tried saying out loud “O, Jupiter, greatest of all gods, give me a sign to verify your reality”?
If not, why not? And would you suggest I try it with any other god?
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Dec. 16 2009,19:47) I look forward to you getting the analysis done and reporting to us the results. Then your wild and wide-ranging speculation can be assessed to see if any of it was warranted. You didn't answer my question by the way, have you tried saying out loud “O, Jupiter, greatest of all gods, give me a sign to verify your reality”?
If not, why not? And would you suggest I try it with any other god?
Stuart
Hi Stuart,What about point #3?
I can't wait to hear the probability factor on that point!Now your just being 'silly'; statistically how many people in the world believe in Greek mythology?
Historical record states that most of the Apostles were willing to die for there belief in a risen Christ.
That doesn't count?Your friend,
Ed JI think you will find that Jupiter was a Roman god, but anyway, why will you not call out to ask for him to reveal himself to you? It will only take a very short time. You can do that when you are alone. Why not try it? What do you have to lose?
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Dec. 16 2009,20:30) I think you will find that Jupiter was a Roman god, but anyway, why will you not call out to ask for him to reveal himself to you? It will only take a very short time. You can do that when you are alone. Why not try it? What do you have to lose? Stuart
Hi Stuart,Most of the Apostles were martyred, because they preached a risen Christ.
Do you really think the two compare?Ed J
Your early christians were caught up in a wider political conflict, so it is a matter of opinion that they were 'martyrs'. Anyway, what does this have to do with asking gods to reveal themselves?
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Dec. 16 2009,20:51) Your early christians were caught up in a wider political conflict, so it is a matter of opinion that they were 'martyrs'. Anyway, what does this have to do with asking gods to reveal themselves? Stuart
Hi Stuart,I have given you reasons, you give none?
Ed J
Hi Stu:
You say:
Quote Atheists say that believers are deluded for carrying such nonsense in their heads (well some of them do, anyway). 'Salvation' is a nonsense concept that is an abuse of the noble nature of humanity. The promise of 'eternal life' is a cheque drawn on a bank that cannot be shown to exist. Would you accept that kind of cheque if it was an offer of financial payment? There are some who say that they are believers who are in fact deluded, and the atrocities that some of these supposed Christians have committed have not helped those of us who are sincere Christians. I know through my personal experiences that God is a reality and that His Word is true, and so the promises that God has made to those who love Him will certainly come to pass. I can take this to the bank as I would a certified check.
And you say:
Quote You are downplaying the scriptures: this god is punishing people through destruction by fire in an act of punishing vengeance, people who, outside the nonsense concept of 'rejecting god' have only done good. For the vast majority of people, the only way you could really say they have done 'bad' is to not bother with religious traditions, and who are you to say you have the right set of religious traditions for people to avert the violence of your petulant god? Some of this will definetly be vengeance against those who have persecuted God's children because in obeying His Word, He tells us not to avenge ourselves but that he will avenge us if these do not repent, but I will just post the following scripture which I believe will show you that the punishment will be according to crime or crimes committed.
Quote uk 12:42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom [his] lord shall make ruler over his household, to give [them their] portion of meat in due season? Luk 12:43 Blessed [is] that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
Luk 12:44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath.
Luk 12:45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
Luk 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for [him], and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
Luk 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not [himself], neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many [stripes].
Luk 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few [stripes]. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
Relative to the rest of your statement, I know that the bible is the Word of God and is the truth, and so that is what I teach. I am not teaching my own thoughts.
And you ask:
Quote What kind of a punishment is this anyway? The central nervous system does not function after death, so all this god will be guilty of is offering indignities to a corpse. Those who are alive at the coming of the Lord for the church who are not saved will be judged and punished by the seven last plagues, and those who died in their sins prior to the rapture will be raised from the dead and will be judged according to their works. And so, we are not talking about a dead corpse when the punishment is rendered.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (Ed J @ Dec. 16 2009,20:54) Quote (Stu @ Dec. 16 2009,20:51) Your early christians were caught up in a wider political conflict, so it is a matter of opinion that they were 'martyrs'. Anyway, what does this have to do with asking gods to reveal themselves? Stuart
Hi Stuart,I have given you reasons, you give none?
Ed J
Huh? You have given me no reasoning for anything you have told me Ed!Have you asked aloud for Banaitja the Australian Aboriginal creator god to confirm his existence? Don't slack off on me, there are a lot of gods on the list for you to get through. I'd do Odin after that.
Stuart
90210
Quote There are some who say that they are believers who are in fact deluded, and the atrocities that some of these supposed Christians have committed have not helped those of us who are sincere Christians. I know through my personal experiences that God is a reality and that His Word is true, and so the promises that God has made to those who love Him will certainly come to pass. I can take this to the bank as I would a certified check.
I agree it is unfair to be associated with the crimes of others with the same group identity, however that would be a characteristic habit of your god, according to Exodus 20:5 and Deuteronomy 5:9, although not according to Deuteronomy 24:16 and Ezekiel 18:20.All this contradictory scripture is confusing, don’t you find? I think your last sentence there demonstrates that you might be one of the deluded faithful. Do you think it is unreasonable that non-believer laugh at the invisible promises of eternity that your religion claims to offer you? Islam makes similar promises for their faithful, but the description of it is quite different, and of course it does not require a Jesus obsession. Why are they wrong and you right? There is no unambiguous evidence to support one over the other, or indeed to support either myth.
Quote Some of this will definetly be vengeance against those who have persecuted God's children because in obeying His Word, He tells us not to avenge ourselves but that he will avenge us if these do not repent, but I will just post the following scripture which I believe will show you that the punishment will be according to crime or crimes committed.
So, scripturally, non-believers are second-class citizens in your view (and George H. Bush’s). I think your god is a second-class god. It would appear to be a small-minded, paranoid deity who appeals to a small-minded paranoid congregation. What a coincidence!Quote Relative to the rest of your statement, I know that the bible is the Word of God and is the truth, and so that is what I teach. I am not teaching my own thoughts.
I can tell. I think you are probably a far more decent person than your religion allows you to appear.Quote Those who are alive at the coming of the Lord for the church who are not saved will be judged and punished by the seven last plagues, and those who died in their sins prior to the rapture will be raised from the dead and will be judged according to their works. And so, we are not talking about a dead corpse when the punishment is rendered.
We are talking about a live corpse then? From what vampire movie did Judeo-christianity borrow its mythology? I guess it happened the other way round.A human who dies following a good life in service of his fellow humans, will then be dragged from the grave, resurrected then suffer vengeance by fire resulting in everlasting destruction, JUST because he did not subscribe to belief in this paranoid monster of a god. You can forget trying to convince me that your god has anything to do with what I understand to be justice.
The good news is that none of it is true. The universe is actually a beautiful place.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Dec. 17 2009,13:08) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 16 2009,20:54) Quote (Stu @ Dec. 16 2009,20:51) Your early christians were caught up in a wider political conflict, so it is a matter of opinion that they were 'martyrs'. Anyway, what does this have to do with asking gods to reveal themselves? Stuart
Hi Stuart,I have given you reasons, you give none?
Ed J
Huh? You have given me no reasoning for anything you have told me Ed!Have you asked aloud for Banaitja the Australian Aboriginal creator god to confirm his existence? Don't slack off on me, there are a lot of gods on the list for you to get through. I'd do Odin after that.
Stuart
Hi Stuart,I stand corrected, I believe you are right that 'jupiter' was a god of the Romans.
You continue to be silly, to compare “Real” with 'fake'.
I do respect your honesty, and you have the right to believe and defend your beliefs.
If you choose not to believe, that is your choice.
I will “Not” pressure you, but know this,
you show no interest in the evidences that God does indeed exist.Truly both our “Avatars” represent our separate beliefs!
God bless you Stuart,
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecodePS. Let me know if you “want” me to continue to “spoon feed” you the evidences, If 'not' I won't bother you any more with them.
Hi Stu:
I will just answer this last statement of yours and then there is no need to continue any further discussion with you. You are not here trying to understand what is being said but simply show your disrespect for my God and for me.
You say:
Quote The good news is that none of it is true. The universe is actually a beautiful place. You are in for a rude awakening.
And with this, I will leave you to your own fate. I won't answer any more of your posts.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Dec. 17 2009,14:14) Hi Stu: I will just answer this last statement of yours and then there is no need to continue any further discussion with you. You are not here trying to understand what is being said but simply show your disrespect for my God and for me.
You say:
Quote The good news is that none of it is true. The universe is actually a beautiful place. You are in for a rude awakening.
And with this, I will leave you to your own fate. I won't answer any more of your posts.
Love in Christ,
Marty
You are so funny 90210. You say all this stuff over and over again to me.How is it possible to disrespect something that does not exist, with any meaning?
Do you feel that you got the last word this time?
Stuart
Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 17 2009,14:09) Quote (Stu @ Dec. 17 2009,13:08) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 16 2009,20:54) Quote (Stu @ Dec. 16 2009,20:51) Your early christians were caught up in a wider political conflict, so it is a matter of opinion that they were 'martyrs'. Anyway, what does this have to do with asking gods to reveal themselves? Stuart
Hi Stuart,I have given you reasons, you give none?
Ed J
Huh? You have given me no reasoning for anything you have told me Ed!Have you asked aloud for Banaitja the Australian Aboriginal creator god to confirm his existence? Don't slack off on me, there are a lot of gods on the list for you to get through. I'd do Odin after that.
Stuart
Hi Stuart,I stand corrected, I believe you are right that 'jupiter' was a god of the Romans.
You continue to be silly, to compare “Real” with 'fake'.
I do respect your honesty, and you have the right to believe and defend your beliefs.
If you choose not to believe, that is your choice.
I will “Not” pressure you, but know this,
you show no interest in the evidences that God does indeed exist.Truly both our “Avatars” represent our separate beliefs!
God bless you Stuart,
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecodePS. Let me know if you “want” me to continue to “spoon feed” you the evidences, If 'not' I won't bother you any more with them.
You know, the funny thing is that I have never made a choice to specifically not believe in your deity. That would be ridiculous, don't you think? Why should I make an active choice to not believe in things that don't exist? Have you made an active decision not to believe in Zeus? I think this is one of the more absurd aspects of the Judeo-christian mythology, that it actually convinces believers that their faith in things that cannot be seen or heard is somehow the norm, and those people who don't share that delusion have made some special effort to be evil. What a bluff.I don't think you are able to justify your mockery of Jupiter as 'false', after all you only have your scriptures to go on, and would you expect them to contain a balanced debate on the issue?
I promise you I have every interest in any evidence you can provide that your god exists. The problem is that you have presented none. You have not once written “my god is the only reasonable explanation for…”.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Dec. 17 2009,15:12)
You know, the funny thing is that I have never made a choice to specifically not believe in your deity. That would be ridiculous, don't you think? Why should I make an active choice to not believe in things that don't exist? Have you made an active decision not to believe in Zeus? I think this is one of the more absurd aspects of the Judeo-christian mythology, that it actually convinces believers that their faith in things that cannot be seen or heard is somehow the norm, and those people who don't share that delusion have made some special effort to be evil. What a bluff.I don't think you are able to justify your mockery of Jupiter as 'false', after all you only have your scriptures to go on, and would you expect them to contain a balanced debate on the issue?
I promise you I have every interest in any evidence you can provide that your god exists. The problem is that you have presented none. You have not once written “my god is the only reasonable explanation for…”.
Stuart
Hi Stuart,I never said you were (nor will I say) evil.
My God(YHVH=63) is the only reasonable explanation for “The Bible”=63 and “ALL” pertaining evidences therein.
The “Facts” and nothing but the facts (I already know) is all you will accept; and that is what I present to you.I even respect your willingness “NOT” to have to work for them.
That is why I continue to work(my time) to present them to you.
And I thank my God(Jehovah God) that you have an open mind to them.Once again I stand corrected, your Avatar does not represent your beliefs!
God bless you Stuart,
Ed J
http://www.holycitybibleocdePS. I will deliver more, a lot more “circumstantial evidences” to you; that is the “Proof” I offer!
1John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time.
If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time;
the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.Ed
I'm not sure what your relationship is with the Judeo-christian scripture. You may deny it for all I know, but it proclaims me a fool (Psalms) who should be put to death (Leviticus, Deuteronomy) or describes me as worthy of death (Romans). I don't necessarily think you believe me to be evil, but the attitude of your Book of Spells towards me is pretty clear. I am relieved that you reject these teachings.
My intention is to show to you that your numerology says nothing at all if you analyse it properly. You are not analysing it at all right now.
Here is a first problem for you. Here it says:
If there is no Scriptural significance then the calculation is of no significance.
If you accept this statement, then you would only ever select sets of numbers that appear to be convincingly related AND match ideas in scripture. Scripture is only concerned with stories that reinforce the idea that there is such a thing as a god. So your method is invalid as a means of demonstrating the existence of god because it is circular logic.
Secondly, try these in English:
messiah Jesus
god in man's form
satanic ritual
averts hopes
god is a con trick
revelation a lieStuart
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
