Karmarie

http://www.articlesbase.com/non-fic….99.html

Participant

This is the fourth article of the series:

“Is The Lord God Seen or Not in Bible versus Quran?”

In the previous three articles, the Bible says that many men have seen the Lord God like Abraham and Isaac, Jacob. Not only has that, but Jacob Wrestles with God and Jacob defeated GOD.

Read the articles “The Lord God is seen in Bible versus Quran” (1-3).

In this article, Moses and Aaron, Nadab, Abihu and seventy elders saw the Lord God of Israel face to face. This indicates that in addition to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, there are 74 persons more who saw the Lord God.

Yet the Bible declares that No one has ever seen God at any time.

The Noble Quran says that No one can see the Almighty Creator in the life of this world; yet, only the believers will see Him in the Hereafter.

In addition, the Quran mentions the story when Moses said, ‘My Lord! Show me, Yourself and Allah told him that he could not see him; and then Allah revealed Himself, to the mountain He leveled it to the ground and Moses fell down senseless.

======================================================

?? In the Bible: The Lord God is Seen (4)

The Lord God appeared to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Moses; hence, Moses is the fourth man who saw the Lord God

The Lord God spoke to Moses and said to him, “I am the LORD; I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, as God Almighty, but by my name the LORD I did not make myself known to them.

Moses then took the blood, sprinkled it on the people and said, “This is the blood of the covenant that the LORD.

Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and the seventy elders saw the Lord God.

Under God's feet was something like a pavement made of sapphire, clear as the sky itself. God did not lay his hand on the chief men, the elders of Israel; they beheld God, and ate and drank.

——————————————————————–

? The Lord God appeared to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Moses

Exodus 3:15-16 (New International Version)

15 God also said to Moses, “Say to the Israelites, 'The LORD, the God of your fathers—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob—has sent me to you.' This is my name forever, the name by which I am to be remembered from generation to generation.

16 “Go, assemble the elders of Israel and say to them, 'The LORD, the God of your fathers—the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob—appeared to me and said: I have watched over you and have seen what has been done to you in Egypt.

——————————————————————–

? Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob did not know the name Jehovah

Exodus 6:2-3 (New International Version)

2 God also said to Moses, “I am the LORD.

3 I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac and to Jacob as God Almighty, but by my name the LORD (Jehovah) I did not make myself known to them.

——————————————————————–

? Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and the seventy elders saw the Lord God.

This indicates that in addition to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, there are 74 persons more who saw the Lord God.

Under God's feet was something like a pavement made of sapphire, clear as the sky itself. God did not lay his hand on the chief men, the elders of Israel; they beheld God, and ate and drank.

Exodus 24:8-11 (New International Version)

8 Moses then took the blood, sprinkled it on the people and said, “This is the blood of the covenant that the LORD has made with you in accordance with all these words.”

9 Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and the seventy elders of Israel went up

10 and saw the God of Israel. Under his feet was something like a pavement made of sapphire, clear as the sky itself.

11 But God did not raise his hand against these leaders of the Israelites; they saw God, and they ate and drank.

——————————————————————–

? Yet, No one have ever seen the Lord God in the Bible!

Read Exodus 33:20, John 1:18 and 1 John 4:12 and read the articles “The Lord God is Seen in Bible versus Quran” (1) and (2).

======================================================

?? In the Quran: The Lord God is NOT Seen (3)

In the previous articles “The Lord God is seen in Bible versus Quran” (1-3), the following three points are mentioned therein:

1) No man can see the Almighty Creator in the life of this world (Verse 6:103)

2) On the Day of Judgment, your sight will be acute, very sharp and piercing. (Verse 50: 22)

3) Only the Believers will see their LORD in the Hereafter (Verses 75: 22-23).

In this article, verses 7:138-144 tell the story when Moses said, ‘My Lord! Show me, Yourself and Allah told him that he could not see him; and then Allah revealed Himself, to the mountain He leveled it to the ground and Moses fell down senseless.

The meanings of verses 7:138-144

The meanings of verse 7: 138

And Allah brought the Children of Israel across the sea, and they came unto a people (who were given up to idols which they had) who worshipped idols. They said:

O Moses! Make for us a god, show us a god to worship, an idol for us to worship, just as they have gods ‘O Moses, make for us a god, an idol for us to worship, just as they have gods.’ He said, ‘Truly you are an ignorant folk, for repaying God’s grace to you with what you have said.

The meanings of verse 7: 139

Truly as for these, their idolatry will be destroyed and all that they are doing of idolatry is in vain.

The meanings of verse 7: 140

Then Moses said: Shall I seek for you a god other than Allah, shall I command you to worship another lord when Allah has favored you above all the nations of your time through surrender unto Him?

The meanings of verse 7: 141

And remember when Allah delivered you from Pharaoh's folk who were afflicting you with dreadful torment, slaughtering your little sons and sparing your girls. These events were tremendous trial as well as blessing from your Lord, so will you not heed the admonition and desist from what you are saying?

The meanings of verse 7: 142

And when Allah appointed for Moses to spend in the mountain thirty nights and added to them ten more days and he completed the whole time appointed by his Lord of forty nights (thus was completed the term of communion) with his lord, forty nights.; and Moses said unto his brother Aaron: Take my place, be my deputy among the people. Do right, enjoin them to do right, and do not follow the way of mischief-makers by committing transgressions.

The meanings of verse 7: 143

And when Moses came at Allah's appointed time, that is, the time at which Allah had promised to speak to him, and his Lord spoke with him, without any intermediary, with speech which he heard from all directions,

Moses said, ‘My Lord! Show me, Yourself, that I may behold You!’

Allah Said, ‘You shall not see Me, that is to say, you do not have the power to see me, but behold the mountain, which is stronger than you are, and if it remains, stays fixed, in its place, then you shall see Me’, that is, [then] you shall remain fixed and able to see Me, otherwise, you will not have the capacity for it.

And when Allah revealed Himself, that is, [when] He manifested of His Light the equivalent of half a nail of a little finger, (as stated in one Hadith), to the mountain He leveled it to the ground and Moses fell down senseless, having lost consciousness at the awesomeness of what he had seen.

And when he recovered his senses he said, ‘Glory be to You!, in Your tr
anscendence. I repent to You, for having asked You what I was not commanded [to ask], and I am the first of the believers’, of my time.

It should be emphasized that the use of this expression [lan tar?n?, which means, ‘you shall not see Me’] instead of lan ur?, which means, ‘I shall not be seen’, implies that it is possible to see God, exalted be He (but only the believers will see Him in the Afterlife)

The meanings of verse 7: 144

Hen Allah said, to him: ‘O Moses, I have elected you, chosen you, from among mankind, the people of your time, for My Messages and My Speech, that is, [for] My having spoken to you. So take what I have given you, of bounty, and be of the thankful’, of My favors.

——————————————————————–

Verses 7: 138-144 (Yusuf Ali translation)

Verse 7: 138

We took the children of Israel (with safety) across the sea. They came upon a people devoted entirely to some idols they had. They said: “o Moses! Fashion for us a god like unto the gods they have.” he said: “surely ye are a people without knowledge.

Verse 7: 139

As to these folk, – the cult they are in is (but) a fragment of a ruin, and vain is the (worship) which they practice.

Verse 7: 140

He said: “shall I seek for you a god other than the (true) Allah, when it is Allah who hath endowed you with gifts above the nations?”

Verse 7: 141

And remember we rescued you from pharaoh's people, who afflicted you with the worst of penalties, who slew your male children and saved alive your females: in that was a momentous trial from your lord.

Verse 7: 142

We appointed for Moses thirty nights, and completed (the period) with ten (more): thus was completed the term (of communion) with his lord, forty nights. and Moses had charged his brother Aaron (before he went up): “act for me amongst my people: do right, and follow not the way of those who do mischief.

Verse 7: 143

When Moses came to the place appointed by us, and his lord addressed him, he said: “o my lord! Show (thyself) to me, that I may look upon thee.” Allah said: “by no means canst thou see me (direct); but look upon the mount; if it abides in its place, then shalt thou see Me.” when his lord manifested his glory on the mount, he made it as dust. and Moses fell down in a swoon. When he recovered his senses he said: “glory be to thee! To thee I turn in repentance, and I am the first to believe.

Verse 7: 144

(Allah) said: “o Moses! I have chosen thee above (other) men, by the mission I (have given thee) and the words I (have spoken to thee): take then the (revelation) which I give thee, and be of those who give thanks.

January 2, 2010 at 5:44 am#167793

Participant

Moses didn't really exist.

Just like 'allah'.

Stuart

January 2, 2010 at 5:46 am#167794

Participant

Quote (Stu @ Jan. 02 2010,16:44)

Moses didn't really exist.

Just like 'allah'.

Stuart

Why?

January 2, 2010 at 7:29 am#167813

Participant

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 02 2010,16:46)

Quote (Stu @ Jan. 02 2010,16:44)

Moses didn't really exist.

Just like 'allah'.

Stuart

Why?

Because I assert it to be true.

Stuart

January 2, 2010 at 10:47 am#167822

Tim Kraft

Participant

To Stuart that is the truth. And so it is, we create ourselves!

January 2, 2010 at 11:07 am#167823

Participant

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 02 2010,16:17)

Do you mean Psalm 117?

Psalm 117 (King James Version)

Psalm 117
1 O praise the LORD, all ye nations: praise him, all ye people.

2 For his merciful kindness is great toward us: and the truth of the LORD endureth for ever. Praise ye the LORD.

Hi BD,

Sorry, It should have been Psalm 117.

YHVH is GOD=117

The Center Chapter in the Bible just so happens to be Psalm 117 (Psalms is the largest book);
since there are exactly 1189 chapters in the entire bible that would make Psalm117
(the smallest chapter) the center, because there are 594 chapters before and 594 after.
What similarity can we draw from this? Well how about… From small to large,
YHVH is at the center of all truth even unto the smallest of particles yet larger
than our mortal minds can fully comprehend.

Thanks for Pointing it out,
Ed J

January 2, 2010 at 11:42 am#167825

Participant

Quote (Tim Kraft @ Jan. 02 2010,21:47)

To Stuart that is the truth. And so it is, we create ourselves!

Excepting idiot creationists, I have refrained from calling people idiots in my posts here thusfar, and I will carry on that policy despite you making a good case for such treatment.

Stuart

January 2, 2010 at 12:07 pm#167826

Participant

In case any further evidence was needed, here it is (TK posting recently in Science and faith can co-exist):

Quote

Continual exercising of good thinking could raise your good feeling to the point of ecstacy. Most scientists agree that living in elevated emotions (energy) can be very healing to the entire body. In fact while living in a feeling of bliss I dare say that sickness of any kind would not be found. If no sickness, there would also be no death.

To TK that is the truth. We can think ourselves well. Whistle a cheerful tune and your chance of sudden heart attack vanishes. Forget chemo, just go for happy thinking.

Stuart

January 2, 2010 at 9:13 pm#168242

Participant

Quote (Stu @ Jan. 02 2010,23:07)

In case any further evidence was needed, here it is (TK posting recently in Science and faith can co-exist):

Quote

To TK that is the truth. We can think ourselves well. Whistle a cheerful tune and your chance of sudden heart attack vanishes. Forget chemo, just go for happy thinking.

Stuart

Hi Stuart,

You are familiar with Jail(The penal institution), well religion is actually God's religious penal instatution.
That's why you consider the to be weak, incompetent, and more specifically both mental and emotional basket cases(fuddies).
But what you may not realize is that people must first believe(the truth TK speaks of)they have hit rock bottom, before they will REPENT.

This is NOT the case with me, I realized(at the age of 12) that my sense of “right and wrong”, was out of control.
I was raised by a divorced mom, with little to no discipline, I was de-evolving, Not evolving(your TK's type of false truth).

I will use an illustration for you to grasp this concept that the “God idea” fixed, resolving “my” personal problem!

Alcoholics while drinking are 'never drunk'(their truth much like TK's and yours),
Does this mean they really are? Well you pointed out the answer in many cases is actually NO;
“stop drinking your already drunk”, but their truth says they are not(at least not yet).
In other words the 'line in the sand' keeps moving! You are a very intelligent individual,
that concept caused me to realize I needed help, or I was going to end up in Jail.

The line of “right and wrong” was ever expanding to match my every situation;
NO “personal accountability”. “Situational ethics” as I call the concept (personal false truths; satan's lie);
Evolution calls this 'truth', but the God Idea calls this SIN. satan is everybody's 'invisible enemy' entity; according to you(another myth).

That is why I can personally testify to you “my invisible friend”(YHVH) is real.
With No “God” it was only a matter of time before I did something
the penal institution would label as a Jailable offence. Evolution is satan's lie (a free for all),
Communism, Genocide, Murder, Rape, the list is very long.
by the way Alcohol was not the issue, don't let satan tell you it was!
Robbing trains out by the railroad tracks 1/4 mile from my house, in the forest preserves was of my hobbies.

What REPENT really means is to “change direction”, not to simply say: 'I'm sorry'; that is NOT what “repent” in the biblical sense means!

The bible clearly teaches this…

Philippians 2:11-13 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father. Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed,
not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence,
work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Without the “God idea” there is NO working this problem out. Your sense of “right and wrong” came from “God” on the inside of you!
Though you will deny this fact! It doesn't matter my goal in Not to get you to think as I do, but only to realize God is real.

God does NOT fry his Children like a piece of bacon, religion has lied to you.
But bratty children must be dealt with!
I'm glad you did not have to hit rock bottom, as most do!

Here read this, starting at Post 6, also READ Page 7 and continuing…
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….st=3070

Psalm 102:11-13 My days are like a shadow that declineth; and I am withered like grass.
But thou, [YHVH], shalt endure for ever; and thy remembrance unto all generations.
Thou shalt arise, and have mercy upon Zion(Ed J): for the time to favor her, yea, the set time, is come.

You are my friend, Stuart.
God bless
Ed J
http:/www.holycitybiblecode.org

January 2, 2010 at 10:32 pm#168256

Participant

I am very grateful to have generally had good guidance from my parents and adults around me when I was growing up, and to have been lucky with the genes I inherited in regards to how they affect my social behaviour: this is a big factor, and is not the fault of anyone, although as you say any antisocial effects, if they are present, need to be dealt with for that person to be a positive contributor to the community.

You say:

Quote

You are familiar with Jail(The penal institution), well religion is actually God's religious penal instatution. That's why you consider the to be weak, incompetent, and more specifically both mental and emotional basket cases(fuddies). But what you may not realize is that people must first believe(the truth TK speaks of)they have hit rock bottom, before they will REPENT.

I don't consider christians necessarily to be any more weak or incompetent, in fact one of the problems of interest for me is how powerful and effective US evangelical christians are in spreading lies about science because they feel the need to impose their version of morality on the world. I'm not sure how lying is an ethical means of spreading your morals! (It's FUNDIES by the way, as in fundamentalist). When it comes to repenting, it depends what you mean by that. I understand it in the sense of making an effort to stop a damaging behaviour. The psychology runs deep here: I understand how people find it effective to submit themselves to a concept of 'a higher power' because then they have the responsibility diverted so they can get on with doing something about it, and they have the collective support of the group that has adopted that common frame of reference in that higher power concept. If it works, why not? I appreciate that addictive behaviours can be very difficult to overcome and maybe the addict will need to retain the higher power concept to stay on the wagon. Of course none of this means that there is any reality to the higher power whatever. Studies of the effects of believing in gods and praying to the show show consistently that god belief has about the same psychological or medical effect as placebos. Essentially christian worship is like unknowingly taking sugar pills.

The thing is, I wonder how you go from the higher power of AA to the brutality of John 3:16. Repenting and accepting a human sacrifice because there is INHERENTLY something wrong with you is nonsense. It is pretty much the same tactic as the army uses in breaking down new recruits and making them see themselves as useless, before rebuilding them in the army mould. It works, but it does not mean that military life should be seen as a perfect model for ones own life.

So what is it that moves the addiction from alcohol (or whatever) to a god that is almost certainly not really there? God as substitute father figure? That is the basis of whole schools of thought on religion. God is the father you lost, or never had, or would like to have. Could be!

Quote

The line of “right and wrong” was ever expanding to match my every situation;
NO “personal accountability”. “Situational ethics” as I call the concept (personal false truths; satan's lie); Evolution calls this 'truth', but the God Idea calls this SIN. satan is everybody's 'invisible enemy' entity; according to you(another myth).

Natural selection might explain the origins of ethics, but it does not use the word 'truth' in this sense. What satan is, according to me, is a simplistic concept that ignores much of what we have learned about human psychology. It is a concept of human behaviour for the illiterate and the gullible.

Quote

It is real in the sense that it is having a placebo effect on you, and I am pleased it has worked. You have paid a big price for it, in my opinion, because you have taken on a whole system of mythology to go with it, little of which can be shown to reflect anything real. You could have stopped at “I better behave differently because the higher power, my community, is something to which I am devoted”.

Quote

Evolution is satan's lie (a free for all),
Communism, Genocide, Murder, Rape, the list is very long.

This is what is really wrong with christian fundamentalism. So often the preachers LIE (either because the agenda cannot be derailed by ungodly things like 'facts', or the preacher is simply regurgitating the lies he was told) and the people accept blindly. Well many don't, and question, and leave.

What do you say to all the devout christians who use evolution by natural selection in their work every day?

What do you say to those who can justify the ideas of communism with scripture?

What do you say to your god, one who killed Uzzah for just trying to be helpful? That is first degree homicide in our language.

As for the genocide which your god boasts about in the OT, it is beginning to look like your list applies to god.

Before you accept the line you read on fundie creationist websites, maybe a little thought might help. I could just use Obama's line “…guns and religion…” and leave it at that, but that would ignore the subtle differences in people's beliefs. It is the same with your list. Evolution is a fact and natural selection is the only explanation we have that fits the evidence. Now how do you justify your sentence that casually associates it with communism, murder, rape, satan and genocide? Did you actually have a point to make or were you just off on a fundie rant?

Stuart

January 3, 2010 at 1:10 am#168292

Participant

Stuart quotes…

Quote

I am very grateful to have generally had good guidance from my parents and adults around me when I was growing up, they affect my social behaviour: this is a big factor, although as you say any antisocial effects, if they are present, need to be dealt with for that person to be a positive contributor to the community.

What If you had grown somewhere remote, with no community?

Quote

Why do you consider that a problem? That is what your parents did and you don't consider that a problem?

Quote

lies about science.

I thought you said Science 'only disproves'?
Why do you support the Darwin story; when it adds NOTHING to behavior or community?

Quote

I'm not sure how lying is an ethical means of spreading your morals!

What have they lied about that can be proven?

Quote

When it comes to repenting, it depends what you mean by that.

Sticking to a set of Godly ethics, one that circumstances CANNOT change.

Quote

1
I understand it in the sense of making an effort to stop a damaging behaviour. I understand how people find it effective to submit themselves to a concept of 'a higher power' God is the father you lost, or never had, or would like to have. Could be!
2
Of course none of this means that there is any reality to the higher power whatever.

I manipulated your words a bit, but only for clarity.
You have a yes/no here? 1=yes 2=no
legislated morality cannot create Personal responsibility!
ONLY the God idea can!

Quote

Natural selection might explain the origins of ethics, but it does not use the word 'truth' in this sense.

What satan is, according to me, is a simplistic concept that ignores much of what we have learned about human psychology. It is a concept of human behaviour for the illiterate and the gullible.

Does science use words like might?
So you only swallow the pieces you like?

Quote

It is real in the sense that it is having a placebo effect on you, and I am pleased it has worked.

Dr. Stuart agrees with Ed J sometimes?

Quote

You have paid a big price for it, in my opinion, because you have taken on a whole system of mythology to go with it, little of which can be shown to reflect anything real.

I have shown to you REAL mathematical proof; yet Stuart rejects it; even though science cannot disprove it!
Which is science's only function regarding ethics; according to Stuart?

Quote

You could have stopped at “I better behave differently because the higher power, my community, is something to which I am devoted”.

Big brother doesn't scare me.
Perhaps your god is Government?

Quote

This is what is really wrong with christian fundamentalism. So often the preachers LIE (either because the agenda cannot be derailed by ungodly things like 'facts'

What lies can you prove they told?
What facts?

Quote

What do you say to all the devout christians who use evolution by natural selection in their work every day?

Explain?

Quote

What do you say to those who can justify the ideas of communism with scripture?

That is the job of atheists.
God supports freedom!

Quote

What do you say to your God, one who killed Uzzah for just trying to be helpful? That is first degree homicide in our language.

Nicole Tesla surmised the Ark was a Giant capacitor.
That would make it an electrical accident; would it not?
Calling it a homicide is a Judgment.

Quote

As for the genocide which your god boasts about in the OT, it is beginning to look like your list applies to god.

Why should you have a problem with bad genes?
Natural selection is OK, right?

Quote

Before you accept the line you read on fundie creationist websites

Haven't done that?

Quote

I could just use Obama's line “…guns and religion…”

Is Government really your god?

Quote

Evolution is a fact(theory) and natural selection is the only explanation we have that fits the evidence.

When does a theory turn into fact?
When you say it does, but not when others do?
The only theory Stuart will accept?

Quote

Now how do you justify your sentence that casually associates it with communism, murder, rape, satan and genocide? Did you actually have a point to make or were you just off on a fundie rant?

Don't justify communism?
NO fundie?
If you consider responding to me a burden, then quit responding?

Your ranting friend,
and BD's stubborn friend,
Ed J

January 3, 2010 at 2:38 am#168298

Participant

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 02 2010,16:17)

Muhammad is Lord=151 too

Until you acknowledge the Quran you will never be fit to be a witness:

Please learn brother, by the Might of YHVH

Quran is lord Muhammad=222

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ?
He is antichrist(guess who?), that denieth the Father and the Son.

Col.2:22 Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?

The Might of YHVH

January 3, 2010 at 5:01 am#168313

Try these creationist lies that are shown to be wrong.

Participant

Stu: I don't consider christians necessarily to be any more weak or incompetent, in fact one of the problems of interest for me is how powerful and effective US evangelical christians are in spreading the need to impose their version of morality on the world.

Quote

Why do you consider that a problem? That is what your parents did and you don't consider that a problem?

I have not had my morals imposed on me. I have always been encouraged to think for myself. I have a major problem with evangelical christians trying to impose their morals on the whole community because I have a problem with anyone trying to do that. I think you would too if it was sharia law you were being subjected to.

Quote

I thought you said Science 'only disproves'?

Yes, in relation to proving things, science only disproves. Of course it tries to disprove theories which scientists have thought of. What is your point?

Quote

Why do you support the Darwin story; when it adds NOTHING to behavior or community?

Why should you only support stuff that ‘adds something to the community’? Actually it adds a great deal because humans have curiosity about their origins, and Darwin explained them brilliantly, and his work is still just as right today as it was in 1859.

Quote

What have they lied about that can be proven?

You mean disproved!

Quote

Sticking to a set of Godly ethics, one that circumstances CANNOT change.

Was slavery right in biblical times but is wrong now? Scripture tells you how you should treat your slaves. I am not aware of any scripture that says you should not keep slaves. Are you telling me that no circumstance should ever have changed slavery? If that is godly ethics, we are certainly better off without them.

Quote

I understand it in the sense of making an effort to stop a damaging behaviour. I understand how people find it effective to submit themselves to a concept of 'a higher power' God is the father you lost, or never had, or would like to have. Could be!
2
Of course none of this means that there is any reality to the higher power whatever.
I manipulated your words a bit, but only for clarity.
You have a yes/no here? 1=yes 2=no
legislated morality cannot create Personal responsibility!
ONLY the God idea can!

Well that is obviously wrong. Just look at all the atheists in the world who take their personal responsibility seriously.

Quote

God supports freedom!

You mean like the ‘free will’ that we can all exercise, but if we make the wrong choice then after death we are resurrected and burned in vengeful punishment for making the ‘wrong’ choice’? Doesn’t sound much like a support of freedom to me.

Quote

Nicole Tesla surmised the Ark was a Giant capacitor.
That would make it an electrical accident; would it not?

How many times would you like to change your scripture so it removes god’s involvement? Just this once?

Quote

Calling it a homicide is a Judgment.

Yes, it is my judgement. Why is my ethical opinion less valid than yours? The net effect is an obviously innocent man was killed. Your god claimed responsibility, yet you do not seem to want ‘him’ to take that responsibility while here you are railing against that because they do not follow your god.

Stu: I could just use Obama's line “…guns and religion…”

Quote

Is Government really your god?

What has that got to do with it??

Quote

When does a theory turn into fact?

Evolution is a fact because it is so well demonstrated that it would be perverse to deny it. You have not disproved it, so it remains a fact.

Stuart

January 3, 2010 at 6:04 am#168321

Participant

Hi Stuart,

Quote (Stu @ Jan. 03 2010,16:01)

Quote

I thought you said Science 'only disproves'?

Yes, in relation to proving things, science only disproves. Of course it tries to disprove theories which scientists have thought of. What is your point?

The Science of Theomatics disproves the theory that biblical numbering is merely random!
Which I have been illustrating to you; yet you continue to reject this science.

Quote

Actually a great deal of humans have curiosity about their origins, and Darwin explained them brilliantly, and his work is still just as right today as it was in 1859.

It seems you have Darwin confused with YHVH

Quote

You mean disproved!

Only “Bible Truth”=117 regarding 117=יהוה האלהים disproves Lies.
Theory's remain theory's until they are proven to be factual.
You haven't agreed to read my science paper yet; that's the deal remember?

Quote

http://ww fw.talkoxvrigins.org/indexcc/list.html#CC200]Try these creatiynonis t lies that a e showgn to be wron cg.

Quote

Was slavery right in biblical times but is wrong now?

Are you familiar with “The Bible'=63 story, how”YHVH”=63
set the Children of Israel free from slavery imposed on the by them the Egyptians?
The bible has never condoned slavery; only BD's fake book has.

Quote

Well that is obviously wrong. Just look at all the atheists in the world who take their personal responsibility seriously.

They deny the God that gave them their ethics.
Ethics did not come from darwin, did they?

Quote

You believe lies told about God?
Are you trying to dismiss yourself from personal responsibility?

Quote

Nicole Tesla surmised the Ark was a Giant capacitor.
That would make it an electrical accident; would it not?
How many times would you like to change your scripture so it removes God’s involvement? Just this once?

That depends on your attacks.

Quote

Calling it a homicide is a Judgment.
Yes, it is my judgement. Why is my ethical opinion less valid than yours? The net effect is an obviously innocent man was killed. Your god claimed responsibility, yet you do not seem to want ‘him’ to take that responsibility while here you are railing against that because they do not follow your god.

Declaring the man innocent is yet another judgment.
I thought you said God didn't exist, how many times are you going to talk about God’s involvement, just this once?

Quote

Is Government really your god?
What has that got to do with it??

Isn't that the higher power you submit to?

Quote

When does a theory turn into fact?
Evolution is a fact because it is so well demonstrated that it would be perverse to deny it. You have not disproved it, so it remains a fact. Stuart

Story's have to be proven for them to be believed.
Theomatics is so well illustrated by me that you cannot disprove it.
The facts remain as proof, God's existence is illustrated.
Evolution is a myth. It is a fact of science it takes life to propagate life. How did Evolution start? In Darwin's mind?

God cannot be disproved.

Bod bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org[/quote]

January 3, 2010 at 10:06 am#168327

Participant

Sorry not interested in your nonsense any more. Get back to us when you know something about what you are writing about.

Stuart

January 3, 2010 at 5:51 pm#168364

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 03 2010,13:38)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 02 2010,16:17)

Muhammad is Lord=151 too

Until you acknowledge the Quran you will never be fit to be a witness:

Please learn brother, by the Might of YHVH

Quran is lord Muhammad=222

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ?
He is antichrist(guess who?), that denieth the Father and the Son.

Col.2:22 Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?

The Might of YHVH

Surah 2:22 Who has made the earth your couch, and the heavens your canopy; and sent down rain from the heavens; and brought forth therewith Fruits for your sustenance; then set not up rivals unto Allah when ye know (the truth).

Quran is lord Jesus=222

Keep it coming, until you have the truth, you have to accept the Quran as the word of God or you will be kept in the dark.

January 4, 2010 at 2:17 am#168455

Participant

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 04 2010,04:51)

Who has made the earth your couch, and the heavens your canopy; and sent down rain from the heavens; and brought forth therewith Fruits for your sustenance;

Keep it coming, until you have the truth…or you will be kept in the dark.

Hi BD,

The “Divine=63” “Deity=63” of “The Bible=63” is “YHVH=63”!

Evodus 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob,
by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.

Hosea 6:3:“Then we shall know, if we follow on to know the LORD his going forth is prepared as the morning;
and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter rain and former unto the earth. [The Latter Rain=151 & Former Rain=117].

Subject 117; YHVH is GOD=117!

PSALM 117 “is” [The Bible's Center], AND the “[smallest chapter]” of the [LARGEST BOOK]!

I always thought that the former rain was during the time that the Old Testament was written,
and the latter rain started at Pentecost; but my research has convinced me this to be the case.

The three main feasts of God are…

1) The Passover=148 made possible by Joshua Messiah=148
2) Pentecost=117 started the Former Rain=117
3) Feast of Booths=151 begins The Latter Rain=151

If this information is accurate, then this doctrine is actually part of the latter rain!

Deuteronomy 32:2-3: “My (YHVH’s) doctrine shall drop as rain.
My speech shall distil as dew, AS THE SMALL RAIN upon the tender herb,
and AS THE SHOWERS upon the grass: Because I will publish the Name
of “The LORD” (YHVH YÄ-hä-vā) (Psalm 45:17): and ascribe greatness to our GOD.”

YHVH wants you to have your own personal “Pentecost”,
but you first must accept “The Passover”(Gospel). (Romans 8:6)

Gen.1:1-3 In the beginning God(אלהים=86 ĔL-ō-Hêêm) created the heaven and the earth.
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.
And the Spirit of God moved upon the And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

117=יהוה האלהים YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm “IS THE LIGHT“=117

1 John 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light,
and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie,
and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another,
and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Rev.21:2 And I John saw the “holy city“=117, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of [heaven.net.nz],
prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying,
Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people,
and God himself=117 shall be with them, and be their [YHVH=63]. (Rev. 21:22-22:7 / Rev.16:15 / 2Peter 3:10)

Ed J (Daniel 11:18 / Hebrews 11:34 / Isaiah 60:14)
http://www.holycitybiblecibe.org

January 4, 2010 at 2:18 am#168456

Participant

Quote (Stu @ Jan. 03 2010,21:06)

Sorry not interested in your nonsense any more. Get back to us when you know something about what you are writing about.

Stuart

Hi Stuart,

It seems neither Stuart nor BD like seeing their own reflection in Ed J?

Psalm 18:25-27 With the merciful thou wilt show thyself merciful;
with an upright man thou wilt show thyself upright; With the pure thou wilt show thyself pure;
and with the froward thou wilt shew thyself froward. For thou wilt save the afflicted people;
but wilt bring down high looks.

The Savior=117 “IS“ GOD The Father=117; 117=יהוה האלהים YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!

Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:14)
http:/www.holycitybiblecode.org

January 4, 2010 at 4:37 am#168485

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 04 2010,13:17)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 04 2010,04:51)

Who has made the earth your couch, and the heavens your canopy; and sent down rain from the heavens; and brought forth therewith Fruits for your sustenance;

Keep it coming, until you have the truth…or you will be kept in the dark.

Hi BD,

The “Divine=63” “Deity=63” of “The Bible=63” is “YHVH=63”!

Evodus 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob,
by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.

Subject 117; YHVH is GOD=117!

PSALM 117 “is” [The Bible's Center], AND the “[smallest chapter]” of the [LARGEST BOOK]!

I always thought that the former rain was during the time that the Old Testament was written,
and the latter rain started at Pentecost; but my research has convinced me this to be the case.

The three main feasts of God are…

1) The Passover=148 made possible by Joshua Messiah=148
2) Pentecost=117 started the Former Rain=117
3) Feast of Booths=151 begins The Latter Rain=151

If this information is accurate, then this doctrine is actually part of the latter rain!

YHVH wants you to have your own personal “Pentecost”,
but you first must accept “The Passover”(Gospel). (Romans 8:6)

117=יהוה האלהים YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm “IS THE LIGHT“=117

Ed J (Daniel 11:18 / Hebrews 11:34 / Isaiah 60:14)
http://www.holycitybiblecibe.org

Evodus 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob,
by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.

Surah
6:3 And He is Allah in the heavens and on earth. He knoweth what ye hide, and what ye reveal, and He knoweth the (recompense) which ye earn (by your deeds).

The Latter Rain=151 & Allah=34 former rain=117 (151) he knows what you hide and what you reveal

Surah 32
2 (This is) the Revelation of the Book in which there is no doubt,- from the Lord of the Worlds.
3 Or do they say, “He has forged it”? Nay, it is the Truth from thy Lord, that thou mayest admonish a people to whom no warner has come before thee: in order that they may receive guidance.

Surah 1:1-3

1 In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
2 All praise is due to Allah, the Lord of the Worlds.
3 The Beneficent, the Merciful.

Daniel 11:18 / Hebrews 11:34 / Isaiah 60:14

Daniel 11:18 (King James Version)

18After this shall he turn his face unto the isles, and shall take many: but a prince for his own behalf shall cause the reproach offered by him to cease; without his own reproach he shall cause it to turn upon him.

Surah 11:18

18 Who doth more wrong than those who invent a lie against Allah. They will be turned back to the presence of their Lord, and the witnesses will say, “These are the ones who lied against their Lord! Behold! the Curse of Allah is on those who do wrong!-

Hebrews 11:34 (King James Version)

34Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.

Surah 11:34

34 “Of no profit will be my counsel to you, much as I desire to give you (good) counsel, if it be that Allah willeth to leave you astray: He is your Lord! and to Him will ye return!”

Isaiah 60:14 (King James Version)

14The sons also of them that afflicted thee shall come ben
ding unto thee; and all they that despised thee shall bow themselves down at the soles of thy feet; and they shall call thee; The city of the LORD, The Zion of the Holy One of Israel.

January 4, 2010 at 8:45 am#168511