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Hi,
“The road is narrow and few will find it”
Heb 4.11
” Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, ..”Salvation in Jesus is the doorway to that rest.
“Come to me ye who are heavy burdened and I will give you rest”.
That rest is the the entry into the first resurrection, into the millenium kingdom-nothing to do with our works but those done for us by the son of God..
Sadly most will await the second resurrection and face the white throne judgement which is about works-works done towards the followers of Jesus and the advancement of the kingdom of God.
Hi kenrch,
There are some thoughts in here you may be interested in;
Rev 20v3 is after the return of Jesus and the start of the millenial kingdom.
vv4-6 describes those who are raised in the first resurrection or raptured and they are not judged but reign and are priests and judges with him for 1000yrs.
v6 tells us the second resurrection occurs after the 1000yrs and those in the first never die again.
v13f tells us about the second resurrection. We are not saved by our deeds but those of Christ. They are judged by their deeds. All the rest of mankind [the dead] are resurrected into their old bodies and stand and and face the sheep and goat judgement. Some come from the sea,some from hades and some from a place called death[?sheol] The names of the sheep will be found in the book of life.So david,
Do I understand from what you say about death acquitting us of sin[
?] that there is no judgement for men after death?Hi david,
Those in Christ are not judged. They are in the first resurrection into the millenial kingdom. They only face the tribunal of Christ where they are rewarded or otherwise as with the parable of the talents.There is no condemnation for them who are in Christ Jesus. They have already passed over from death to life.
The rest are in the second resurrection and do face a judgement of condemnation with mercy shown only according to their works towards those in the kingdom alone as in the judgement of the sheep and goats.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 05 2005,19:53) Hi kenrch,
There are some thoughts in here you may be interested in;
Rev 20v3 is after the return of Jesus and the start of the millenial kingdom.
vv4-6 describes those who are raised in the first resurrection or raptured and they are not judged but reign and are priests and judges with him for 1000yrs.
v6 tells us the second resurrection occurs after the 1000yrs and those in the first never die again.
v13f tells us about the second resurrection. We are not saved by our deeds but those of Christ. They are judged by their deeds. All the rest of mankind [the dead] are resurrected into their old bodies and stand and and face the sheep and goat judgement. Some come from the sea,some from hades and some from a place called death[?sheol] The names of the sheep will be found in the book of life.
Hi Nick,If Rev. 20 :13 is the second resurrection then who are they in verse 12?
Quote (kenrch @ Nov. 26 2005,03:06) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 05 2005,19:53) Hi kenrch,
There are some thoughts in here you may be interested in;
Rev 20v3 is after the return of Jesus and the start of the millenial kingdom.
vv4-6 describes those who are raised in the first resurrection or raptured and they are not judged but reign and are priests and judges with him for 1000yrs.
v6 tells us the second resurrection occurs after the 1000yrs and those in the first never die again.
v13f tells us about the second resurrection. We are not saved by our deeds but those of Christ. They are judged by their deeds. All the rest of mankind [the dead] are resurrected into their old bodies and stand and and face the sheep and goat judgement. Some come from the sea,some from hades and some from a place called death[?sheol] The names of the sheep will be found in the book of life.
Hi Nick,If Rev. 20 :13 is the second resurrection then who are they in verse 12?
Those of the 2nd resurrection are saved because of Christ. The judgements are rewards for their works. I'm not repeat I'm NOT saved by my works. But their works are judged. According to their works they will get a reward.Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works
1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.Quote (kenrch @ Nov. 26 2005,03:06) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 05 2005,19:53) Hi kenrch,
There are some thoughts in here you may be interested in;
Rev 20v3 is after the return of Jesus and the start of the millenial kingdom.
vv4-6 describes those who are raised in the first resurrection or raptured and they are not judged but reign and are priests and judges with him for 1000yrs.
v6 tells us the second resurrection occurs after the 1000yrs and those in the first never die again.
v13f tells us about the second resurrection. We are not saved by our deeds but those of Christ. They are judged by their deeds. All the rest of mankind [the dead] are resurrected into their old bodies and stand and and face the sheep and goat judgement. Some come from the sea,some from hades and some from a place called death[?sheol] The names of the sheep will be found in the book of life.
Hi Nick,If Rev. 20 :13 is the second resurrection then who are they in verse 12?
Hi kenrch,
The second resurrection is Rev 20.11f
The first resurrection is Rev 20.1-6Quote (kenrch @ Nov. 26 2005,03:20) Quote (kenrch @ Nov. 26 2005,03:06) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 05 2005,19:53) Hi kenrch,
There are some thoughts in here you may be interested in;
Rev 20v3 is after the return of Jesus and the start of the millenial kingdom.
vv4-6 describes those who are raised in the first resurrection or raptured and they are not judged but reign and are priests and judges with him for 1000yrs.
v6 tells us the second resurrection occurs after the 1000yrs and those in the first never die again.
v13f tells us about the second resurrection. We are not saved by our deeds but those of Christ. They are judged by their deeds. All the rest of mankind [the dead] are resurrected into their old bodies and stand and and face the sheep and goat judgement. Some come from the sea,some from hades and some from a place called death[?sheol] The names of the sheep will be found in the book of life.
Hi Nick,If Rev. 20 :13 is the second resurrection then who are they in verse 12?
Those of the 2nd resurrection are saved because of Christ. The judgements are rewards for their works. I'm not repeat I'm NOT saved by my works. But their works are judged. According to their works they will get a reward.Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works
1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
Hi ,
Yes and that is why they are sheep as clarified in Matt 25 31f. But the works are very specific. The judgement is on whether we have believed and obeyed the Son of God. Mercy is shown only:
” To the extent that you did it TO ONE OF THESE BROTHERS OF MINE, even the least of them you did it to me”
So is it for obeying the ten commandments, or being good people. No.The verses in 1Cor 3 are written to the saved as are all the letters. So it enlarges on the parable of the talents and the tribunal of Christ as shown in 2Cor 5.10f
Hi bastion,
Here is a forum you may be interested in. You say there are two judgements? I find that a difficult concept for a fair minded God. Surely that is double jeopardy? The righteous are not judged according to scripture but have already passed from death to life. The righteous are raised into the 1000yr reign in new impersishable bodies [outer man] but that says nothing of the inner man which are as well. The inner man which sleeps at physical death is resurrected to face judgement if one is outside of the millenial reign. That is waht is cast into the lake of fire along with the devil, the beast and the false prophet.
Rev 20.15
” And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire”
Rev 21.8
” But the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death”This place was prepared for the devil and his angels but those who make him their father share his fate.
Nick,
I will repost here what I posted in the other forum.
This judgment has nothing to do with resurrection, saints, or the white throne. It is a judgment of the Nations at the second coming. When this takes place the first fruits in Christ have already been resurrected.I am sorry I don't understand your post about the outer and inner man. Could you please explain.
BastianREPOST:
Nick,
Mark 43-48 ?
Isaiah 66 is referring to when Messiah establishes his earthly kingdom. He will rule the Nations with a rod of iron. The first order of business when he is king will be to judge the Nations.
Matthew 25:31 -32 But when the son of man comes in his glory and all the angel with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne.
All the Nations will be gathered before him; and he will separate them from one another, as a Shepard separates the sheep from the goats. This judgment is not about the eternal state. It is about the earthly kingdom. Under King Jesus, judgment is fair and swift.From new, moon to new moon from Sabbath to Sabbath
There is neither moon nor Sabbath keeping in the eternal.
Do you really think that there is a place in the new heaven, or the new earth where we can view and smell the stinking dead carcasses of men that rebelled against God’s law?There is no death in the new earth and Heaven.
The great white throne judgment takes place a thousand years after the kingdom judgment, and before the new heaven and the new earth come into view.
I don’t know if you read my previous post. According to God’s word, only those in Christ are raised and given immortality. That is why the lake of fire is the second death, literally. Death is also thrown into the lake of fire. Death is no more once it is cast into the lake of fire. The bible never says that humanity is tormented in the lake of fire. It says the devil, the beast, and the false prophet are tormented. The devil is a spirit being he is immortal therefore, it makes since that the fire would not destroy him. I cannot say what the deal is with the false prophet, and the beast they are tormented that is for sure.
Hi bastion,
Man was made from dust. Into that dust was blown the breath of God and man became a living being[Gen2]The flesh is condemned and dies, and dies also in baptism[Rom6]Thereafter the saved man is in conflict between his two natures and only the inner man, which is transformed into the likeness of Christ, is saved.
2 Cor4+ 5, Rom 7 14f, Eph 4.22f, Rom 12.2.Looking at the sheep and goat judgement of Matt 25 you say it is before the 1000 yr reign. I am unconvinced that there is not 2 resurrections 1000 yrs apart between the start of v 31 and the end of that verse. In his teaching on judgement in Jn 5 Christ mentioned the two resurrections but gave no indication there would be two such judgements. Certainly no judgement will take place before the return of Christ but Matt 25 is a judgement of condemnation with eternal punishment for those who works are insufficient. Do you say there are two such judgements with some condemned now and some later to the same fate at the great white throne judgement of rev20 21f? Then who is condemned now?
Hi,
Jn 3.16 f
“For God so loved the world, that he gave His only begotten son, that whoever believes in him may not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through him. He who believes in him is not JUDGED;he who does not believe has been JUDGED ALREADY, because he has not believed in the name of the ponly begotten Son of God. This is the judgement, that the light has come into the world and men loved the darkness rather than the light for their deeds were evil”So
God loved the world.
God had a Son whom hHe gave that the world be saeved.
God sent that Son into the world.
Salvation ids through belief in the Son.
Thus it is the same for Jew and gentile.
God wants all to be saved.
All must believe in the Son.
Refusal to believe in the Son of God causes us to eternally judge ourselves as sinners.But what of those who do not believe that God has a Son?
What of those who believe God Himself came in the flesh to save us?
How can they obey the Son they do not believe exists?Hi,
Do men face judgement,
or is there only death with no resurrection unto judgement,
as david has shown is the belief of the JWs?Hi,
In the judgement after the second resurrection the only mercy God grants is to those who have helped the brothers of Jesus. It is my view that the numbers of these will be huge. They will include all the gentle, kindly, friendly folk who help all who cross their path every day, including the scattered members of the body of Christ. Few of the self rightous, religious, legalistic judges will find such mercy.Indeed the meek shall inherit the earth.
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