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Hey Nick!
It doesn't say that God was with the logos. It says that the logos was with God. Are your thoughts with you? Do they make up who you are?
“saw and touched God's intent”— Don't get me wrong. Jesus was a man. Flesh and blood. What I was saying was that he was the logos in the flesh because he fulfilled the intent. It is like an architect and a blueprint. The building is in the architect's mind all along- it is the architect's purpose. Everything that he does is for that building. Everything is constructed through the purpose of the end result.
Jesus was born with the same oppertunity as Adam. [sin was not passed down to him through his father] He had the oppertunity for a right, sinless relationship with his Father. He lived in complete obedience and submission. They had a real relationship that nothing hindered. There was no sin between them. That is why the fullness of God could dwell in Him. This is why Jesus is the second Adam. He is the firstborn among many brothers. The logos [intent] was the same for all of us- it was salvation. That is why we have to walk as Jesus did.
We do not obtain salvation by this walk- don't get me wrong. We are saved by faith through favor [grace]. The blood of bulls and goats could not take away sin. The contract between man and God was broken by man, and it would only take a perfect, sinless man to restore it. He paid the sacrifice. He continually stands in the gap, interceding. It is through that sacrifice that we are made clean are able to have a relationship with our Father.
As for Rev 19: again- he is real, tangible man. Not an appariton. He is our head and our authority because all authority in heaven and on earth has been given to him.
This passage is what I have been talking about:
1 Cor 15:20-28
20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all .
NIVMy intent in posting is not to make anyone angry or put anyone down. This is just the understanding that I have come to and I admit that there could be fault in it or that there is more to it. I do not posess all truth and I am just as hungry as many who come here. I am hungry for Him. Knowledge without love is useless.
Hi shania,
No my thoughts are not with me.
They are aspects of the function of my mind.
I have always been one with my thoughts and not been just associated with them.Hi shania,
My thoughts are so much part of me that they perish with me.Psalm 146:4
His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.Words are another matter and they can linger as a matter of joy or regret.
Hey Nick!
You are making me think… could you please explain to me your understanding of John 1, and Jesus's pre-existence? How does it relate to him not being deity? [ex: “the word was God”] If you have to open up another thread I understand. Thanks!
Hi Shania,
Many are called gods in scripture, including the beloved monogenes Son.[1Cor8]
Being called god does not make any being a deity to be worshiped.
For us there is one God, one true God, the Father.The begotten Word had been in heaven with the Father
He had seen the Father and was going back to there.
He was before Abraham, David, John the baptist.A body was prepared for him and he became son of Man by the Spirit of God and Mary.
No different from us he obeyed scripture, suffered and died as our sacrifice.
Reborn from above at the Jordan he was raised by that Spirit of God.Many are distracted by his origins to forget his mission.
He did not come to be served but to serve.
The vine and not the Gardener.Quote (Shania @ April 02 2008,17:51) Nick: That actually makes a lot of sense. Thank you! I will think on these things.
I hope that you don't mind that I add something I feel to me at least is important.
Jesus was man in every way, He hurt, He was sad, He was hot or cold every emotion we have He had. But He had God's Holy Spirit in Him full strength. He knew what was at stake if He failed. The Father had taught Jesus from the beginning and He was strong, that is why God had to send His only begotten Son into the world to save us. He could have failed just like Lucifer did and became Satan and along with Lucifer 1/3 of the Angels that became Demons.
This I find important and very happy that our Heavenly Father loved us so much to send His only begotten Son to die for us, so we can have eternal life. First repent , then get Baptized receive God's Holy Spirit and grow that the mind which is in Christ be in us.
Peace and Love Mrs.Nick are you asking to annoy people or do you really don't know.
Rev. 12: 3 And there appeared another wonder in Heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his head.I am sure you know that the great red dragon is Satan.
verse 4 And His tail drew the third the Stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour Her child as soon as it was born.You do understand that by stars Angels are meant that followed Satan in his rebellion.
verse 7 And there was war in Heaven: Micheal and His Angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels.
verse 8 And prevailed not; neither was there place found anymore in Heaven.
verse 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the devil, and Satan, which deceived the whole world: He was cast out into the earth, and his angels where cast out with him.
Some translations of the Bible calls the falen Angels devil and but in my Bible, the New king James version they are called demon.
Math. 17:18, Like 7:33, John 8:48
demonic James 3:15
demons Deut. 32:17, Luke 9:1, 10:17, 1 Corinth. 10:21, James 2:19, Rev. 18:2.Peace and Love Mrs.
Quote Nick are you asking to annoy people or do you really don't know. –SEEK.
Seek, he really doesn't know.
And until you find a scrpture that says: “The angels that sinned became known as demons” he won't know.
Hi Mrs,
I realise there are demons and fallen angels.
Angels are in heaven and on earth and can go between.
Demons or evil spirits appear to be earth bound completely.I do not think the two should be confused.
Quote (david @ April 03 2008,10:01) Quote Nick are you asking to annoy people or do you really don't know. –SEEK.
Seek, he really doesn't know.
And until you find a scrpture that says: “The angels that sinned became known as demons” he won't know.
David You mean that Rev. 12:9 is not good enough? I guess I should ask Nick, right.Peace and Love Mrs.
Hi Mrs,
In what way does the falling of angels from heaven in Revelation relate to the works done by Jesus in expelling demons from people? Jesus taught a lot about evil spirits. He never said they were angels.Nick Question were did the demons come from? They are spirit beings. Did Satan have a fight in Heaven and did not 1/3 of the Angels go with Him? That is when Lucifer became Satan and the Angels became demons. We do not call Satans Angels, Angels anymore we call them demons.
You dont understand that Satan was here on earth to take care of it, when He went to make war to take God of His throne. The Angels that were with Lucifer(SATAN) went with him to make war with God, and that is when they also changed and became demons, and Lucifer became Satan. Rev. 12:9 Satan is called the God of this world. That is why Satan temted Jeus and said ” I will give you all this, if you bow down and worship me.” We are all kept in bondage here on earth, until Christ shall come again. You know why? Because God can test us if we are found worthy to be one of His Sons. Tell me if you have not been pestered by Satan before? I think we all have been. Jesus has saved us all by His death and Sin is not imputed to us, but we all have to grow into the mind that is in Jesus.
I know this seems strange to some, but this is the way I see it
Peace and Love Mrs.
Good question. Where did the demons come from? It makes sense if they were angels who decided to follow satan, who was also an angel.
But it doesn't make sense for God to have created bad spirit creatures just for the sake of having bad spirit creatures.
The angel that sinned and rebelled against God (and later became known as “resister” and “slanderer” (satan and devil) was not created bad. He had free choice. The other angels also have choice.If many of the angels decided to rebel, it makes sense that they would be given a new name and not simply called “bad angels.”
For a wrong purpose, “the [heavenly] sons of the true God began to notice the daughters of men, that they were good-looking,” states the Bible, “and they went taking wives for themselves, namely, all whom they chose.” These unions were unnatural, and they produced hybrid offspring known as Nephilim. (Genesis 6:2-4) The spirit creatures who thus disobeyed God joined in Satan’s rebellion against Jehovah.
When Jehovah brought the Flood upon mankind, the Nephilim and their human mothers perished. The rebel angels were forced to dematerialize their human bodies and return to the spirit realm. However, they could not resume “their original position” with God. Rather, they were consigned to “dense [spiritual] darkness,” known as Tartarus.—Jude 6; 2 Peter 2:4.
Ever since the wicked angels lost “their original position,” they have been the demon companions of Satan and have served his evil interests.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 03 2008,10:52) Hi Mrs,
Opinions are fine but we need scriptural statements to give them any validity.
Looks like we all posted at the same time. I gave you scripture. Rev. 12:9Quote (david @ April 03 2008,10:55) For a wrong purpose, “the [heavenly] sons of the true God began to notice the daughters of men, that they were good-looking,” states the Bible, “and they went taking wives for themselves, namely, all whom they chose.” These unions were unnatural, and they produced hybrid offspring known as Nephilim. (Genesis 6:2-4) The spirit creatures who thus disobeyed God joined in Satan’s rebellion against Jehovah. When Jehovah brought the Flood upon mankind, the Nephilim and their human mothers perished. The rebel angels were forced to dematerialize their human bodies and return to the spirit realm. However, they could not resume “their original position” with God. Rather, they were consigned to “dense [spiritual] darkness,” known as Tartarus.—Jude 6; 2 Peter 2:4.
Ever since the wicked angels lost “their original position,” they have been the demon companions of Satan and have served his evil interests.
David I agree. Have put those scriptures down before. I dont understand why it is so hard to understand that the Demons were Angels before.
Peace and Love Mrs.
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