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John 17:5Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
This passage is misinterpreted to justify the teaching that Jesus preexists his conception. In order to do so they must deny an individual can receive a gift even though they are not present and are not presently alive because the Christ is not literally said to be their but only to have been given the gift of glory.
The literal words are contradictory as they both state Jesus has not received the glory even though he has received it. That can be resolved by pointing to the fact that a person may be given a car but has not yet come into possession of that car. Others would claim it is resolved by the person being given a car then giving it up and being given that same car again. Both would fit the wording even though they are different teachings. The question is which is true.
John 17:5 like many passages is vague because the intended hearers knew the unwritten context but we of a later generation do not. Instead we often rely on unwritten context provided by our culture and false teachers. The best I can do is reveal its wording as being vague. My understanding of the context is based on other passages which also provide.
John 17:24Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
This is similar to John 17:5 but reveals that God loved the Christ before the world began, that the disciples had not beheld Jesus’ glory, and they be with him where he currently is in order to do so. It is clear the later is speaking of the location of the inward self as the disciple were already with him as to their outward self.
…according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began…(2 Timothy 1:8-11)
In this on believers themselves are given a gift before the world begins.
This is similar where Jesus is given a gift before he is conceived in his mother’s womb for these believers that are given this gift from God in Christ Jesus before the world began do not yet exist except for their breaths and perhaps their souls.Nick,
It is always Jesus speaking as he is carried along by the Spirit.
My point is that some insist Jesus had to exist before the world began to have glory but deny that believers had to be there to receive their gifts before the world began. There arguing of neither of those passages supports the conclusions they draw from it.
What is happening in both cased is that they already assume the Christ preexists and that believers do not. In truth it is not a proof passage but one that is correctly understood by those that already know the truth.
I do not know that the “glory” but I suspicion it is becoming Lord of all things in heaven and on earth. It is also possible it is the new covenant.
Nick,
I don’t believe that they are speaking of the inward man of Jesus, Paul, or those Paul was speaking to.
Instead they illustrate that God had each and everyone of their lives planned out for them before the world began.
Those that believe in random, i.e. unpredictable, free will have trouble with that idea.
Hi KW,
Gal 5.18
But if you are led by the Spirit you are not under the Law.
Are you saying that Jesus was not under the law when he was born
as scripture says he was
or that he was not led by the Spirit?
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