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Hi Stu,
So Paul and his writings existed and the words are true records? He travelled and preached and healed the sick and even raised the dead? You see he was supported by Peter in his teaching too?Great.
Wonderful writings, so pure and harmonious with each other and building on the beauty of the OT.
So what motivation do you see for Paul and the dozen or more disciples of Jesus or more other men who did likewise some leaving glorious teachings too and sometimes working at the cost of their lives.
Since you deny God was their Motivator then you cannot claim Satan was behind some sort of celestial conspiracy either?
A rather massive myth contrived by many people with nothing to gain?
Hi Nick
Quote So Paul and his writings existed and the words are true records? He travelled and preached and healed the sick and even raised the dead? You see he was supported by Peter in his teaching too?
Harry Potter is a true record of events too. The books are one thing, but I have seen the movies with my own eyes.Quote Wonderful writings, so pure and harmonious with each other and building on the beauty of the OT.
So what motivation do you see for Paul and the dozen or more disciples of Jesus or more other men who did likewise some leaving glorious teachings too and sometimes working at the cost of their lives.
They were idiots then. Were they standing up for truth and universal principles of justice for humanity, or were they systematically reinventing Jesus after his death for political gain? There are atheists that follow the ‘real’ Jesus, but fundamentalists need Paul to make christianity the obsessive set of dogmas that it became, and that Jesus warned against.Quote Since you deny God was their Motivator then you cannot claim Satan was behind some sort of celestial conspiracy either?
There is no such thing as god or satan or santa or UFOs or the tooth fairy, so you are right, I do not claim a supernatural conspiracy. Conspiracy theories are for the religious. Jesus was probably a decent fellow that genuinely wanted people to develop positively. Paul was self-important and either deluded or ambitious.Quote A rather massive myth contrived by many people with nothing to gain?
No, they have plenty to gain, and the power of christian churches across the world today shows you exactly what it was.Stuart
Hi Stu,
For someone who can only see with physical eyes you make some brave statements about what you say cannot exist. You see conspiracies where others see harmony and kindly purpose. I really think it would help you to occasionally listen to and accept the possibilities that the experiences and knowledge of others may also have a little validity?Hi Nick
Quote For someone who can only see with physical eyes you make some brave statements about what you say cannot exist. You see conspiracies where others see harmony and kindly purpose. I really think it would help you to occasionally listen to and accept the possibilities that the experiences and knowledge of others may also have a little validity? But you have not come up with anything that cannot be seen with ‘physical eyes’, so I am calling your bluff on you being able to know stuff that I can’t. Give me something tangible and I’ll listen. Harmony and kindness are in the eye of the beholder, and I can see why you think it might look that way, but I think you do not see the full picture. Harmony and goodwill are not only the preserve of believers, in fact often the opposite is true.
Stuart
Hi Stu,
We have sacred writings that speak of heavenly matters
and since our Master believed in them we do too.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 07 2008,16:19) Hi Stu,
We have sacred writings that speak of heavenly matters
and since our Master believed in them we do too.
You have no basis for rejecting Harry Potter then.Stuart
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 07 2008,19:32) Hi t8,
You are right.
We do need a children's section.
There is a Boy Scouts' section.Stuart
Hi Stu,
Your appeal to logic and worldly knowledge will not be effective here
and you will be frustrated to find that we walk by faith and not by sight.Classic. I might start collecting some of your quotes. Logical and intelligent people will find them a hoot.
Hi tow,
I'm pleased I am not considered intelligent as the fishermen of Galilee were not either
and the wise find it difficult to grasp onto faith.
Mock away.According to you, if the apostles had been alive today, they would struggle with tying their shoes. After all, they did not understand when Jesus told them he would be killed and would rise again. You say it takes spiritual understanding to understand even the simplest things and since they could not, they lacked both intelligence and spiritual understanding.
Poor them.
I'm not mocking them, I'm mocking you characterization of them. You said they could not understand this:
Luk 9:22 saying, “The Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised.”
You said they could not understand this when they heard it. Looks pretty straightforward to me, and remember, I don't have the spirit to help me understand right?
Hi tow,
But you do have the words recorded for you to see.
Call them stupid if you must but is that actually very wise?
It calls into question your own intelligence in discarding the fair offer of salvation God made to you.No Nick Twister, I said I call them stupid as you characterize them. You say they could not understand it.
If I told you I was going to be killed but raised 3 days later would you believe me? No. But what if three days later my body was gone? Would you cat as if you never heard me say what I did? That is what the disciples did according to GJohn, and your excuse is that they didn't understand and obviously totally forgot that Jesus said it.
It is you who is saying they are stupid by giving such a lame excuse.
Hi Tow,
We do not have to apologise for our brothers.
But it is all made clear for us.Did every disciple hear every word he spoke and if so how?
Mat 16:21 From that time Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised.
Mat 16:22 And Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him, saying, “Far be it from you, Lord! This shall never happen to you.“
==================================Take note, Nick. It specifically says Peter understood but didn't want to believe it. Yet Peter saw Jesus die (if even from a distance). So he knew for a fact that Jesus died. So far so good right?
==================================
Joh 20:2 So she ran and went to Simon Peter and the other disciple, the one whom Jesus loved, and said to them, “They have taken the Lord out of the tomb, and we do not know where they have laid him.”
Joh 20:3 So Peter went out with the other disciple, and they were going toward the tomb.
Joh 20:4 Both of them were running together, but the other disciple outran Peter and reached the tomb first.
Joh 20:5 And stooping to look in, he saw the linen cloths lying there, but he did not go in.
Joh 20:6 Then Simon Peter came, following him, and went into the tomb. He saw the linen cloths lying there,
Joh 20:7 and the face cloth, which had been on Jesus' head, not lying with the linen cloths but folded up in a place by itself.
Joh 20:8 Then the other disciple, who had reached the tomb first, also went in, and he saw and believed;
Joh 20:9 for as yet they did not understand the Scripture, that he must rise from the dead.
Joh 20:10 Then the disciples went back to their homes.
==================================As you can see, Peter was told by Jesus he would die and then rise again. Yet GJohn says something of scripture (which does not exist) that speaks of it, which contradicts what is going on in Mat 16:21-22.
Peter knew it in Matthew, but had no clue in John,
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