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Did anyone know that Jesus was to rise from the dead? Let's investigate:
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Joh 20:2 Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and saith unto them, They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him.Joh 20:9 For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead.
==============================Well, to be honest, there was NO scripture that said that the Messiah (which Jesus is not but beside the point) would rise from the dead. Yet it appears that neither the disciples nor Mary knew that Jesus was supposed to rise from the dead. Interesting in that he told them of the sign!
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Mat 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
Mat 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
==============================So either the disciples did not hear him say this, did not understand it, or it was not really a sign of his death and resurrection. Therefore, they might be off the hook. Unless…
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Mat 16:21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.Mar 8:31 And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.
Luk 9:22 Saying, The Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be slain, and be raised the third day.
==============================Uh oh, seems they WERE told that Jesus would be killed and would rise again the third day. Yet they did not know anything about it according to the Gospel of John!
That is what happens with a lie. The story is never told the same way twice. Just like when Paul relates his Damascus road experience: it is never the same with each telling. Lies are like that.
Hi tow,
So they were all able to understand everything he said about the future at the time he said it?
You have great faith in men.Luk 9:22 Saying, The Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be slain, and be raised the third day.
I dunno, seems pretty straightforward to me Nick. What's hard to understand there?
Hi Tow,
These fishermen and simple men had not yet partaken of the new wine of the Spirit to grasp the things of God.Hi tow,
How can they think he was a liar when they did not grasp the meaning?
Indeed many left him because they did not understand him but the remnant remained by faith.Luk 9:22 Saying, The Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be slain, and be raised the third day.
Seriously Nick, you don't have to be “spirtually discerning” to understand this. At this point you are saying that the disciples had the IQ of a turnip.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 03 2008,14:29) Hi tow,
How can they think he was a liar when they did not grasp the meaning?
Indeed many left him because they did not understand him but the remnant remained by faith.
John must have lacked spiritual discernment as well then:Luk 7:20 And when the men had come to him, they said, “John the Baptist has sent us to you, saying, 'Are you the one who is to come, or shall we look for another?'”
Was this the same man who supposedly said earlier
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Joh 1:35 The next day again John was standing with two of his disciples,
Joh 1:36 and he looked at Jesus as he walked by and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God!”
Joh 1:37 The two disciples heard him say this, and they followed Jesus.
=========================I guess John saw through the veneer too. Maybe John returned to Judaism before his death. Good for him.
Hi tow,
The gospels were not written immediately based on notes taken that day.
Again the miracle of God's Spirit is to remind them of every word spoken some time later.
The strength of God show up best in weak vessels.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 03 2008,14:47) Hi tow,
The gospels were not written immediately based on notes taken that day.
Again the miracle of God's Spirit is to remind them of every word spoken some time later.
The strength of God show up best in weak vessels.
What does that have to do with what Jesus said to them?Quote (Towshab @ Jan. 03 2008,14:01) Did anyone know that Jesus was to rise from the dead? Let's investigate: ==============================
Joh 20:2 Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and saith unto them, They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him.Joh 20:9 For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead.
==============================Well, to be honest, there was NO scripture that said that the Messiah (which Jesus is not but beside the point) would rise from the dead. Yet it appears that neither the disciples nor Mary knew that Jesus was supposed to rise from the dead. Interesting in that he told them of the sign!
==============================
Mat 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
Mat 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
==============================So either the disciples did not hear him say this, did not understand it, or it was not really a sign of his death and resurrection. Therefore, they might be off the hook. Unless…
==============================
Mat 16:21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.Mar 8:31 And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.
Luk 9:22 Saying, The Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be slain, and be raised the third day.
==============================Uh oh, seems they WERE told that Jesus would be killed and would rise again the third day. Yet they did not know anything about it according to the Gospel of John!
That is what happens with a lie. The story is never told the same way twice. Just like when Paul relates his Damascus road experience: it is never the same with each telling. Lies are like that.
And yet nick, how does this have a bit of bearing on the above?Hi tow,
What is written is true.
What men believed when they heard it is just conjecture.
Only the Spirit can give spiritual understanding.So let me get this straight:
Jesus told his disciples he would be killed and would rise again three days later. When it supposedly happened they forgot what he said even when they didn't understand it? Shouldn't they have put the two things together?
But you make the disciples out to be buffoons and simpletons. Perhaps they were.
Hi tow,
It is better to be as children.
The extraordinary unity and harmony of words written by 4 different people perhaps years later such that now each word is loved can only be from the power of God.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 03 2008,15:20) Hi tow,
It is better to be as children.
The extraordinary unity and harmony of words written by 4 different people perhaps years later such that now each word is loved can only be from the power of God.
Children are also taught to believe in Santa Clause. I'm beginning to understand the analogy: children believe these things because they are easily influenced and will believe in a lie.Hi tow,
Indeed lambs need a shepherd and we have a God given one to follow.
Should we rather follow a man like you?
But you have no direction.I don't need to give you direction. I give you evidence. Yet you disbelieve the evidence because I give it. That makes no sense because I give evidence from a book you say is 100% true.
You are only fooling yourself. Stop blaming me and look.
Hi Tow,
You offer nothing but doubt.
Be wise and keep them to yourself.
We are people of faith in God and His son.
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