- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 25 2006,01:45) What of the unity he said he had with the Father? “The Father and I are one”
“He who has seen me has seen the Father”Was that no longer true on the cross?
Hi Nick,There's another glaring black hole in the Trinity and Oneness doctrines.
How can anyone forsake him/herself?
One may be or feel alone or lonely,
One can be or feel forsaken by another, but one cannot forsake oneself.Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ June 10 2006,14:02) Col. 1 12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be
partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath
translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the
forgiveness of sins:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every
creature:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that
are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or
dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by
him, and for him:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning,
the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the
preeminence.19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to
reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be
things in earth, or things in heaven.John 1 In the begining was the Word, and the Word was with God, and
the Word was God. Even before the heavens and the earth, God begat
his Son, the Word. Many refuse to believe that the Son was brought
into existance by the Father, because they want to believe that the
Father, not the Son, died for our sins. When Jesus became our sin on
the cross, the Father had to turn away and that is why Jesus said, “
Father, why hast thou forsaken me.”Although the Son was of the Father and exercised all authority of
the Godhead, he was not the Father and is not the Father. Jesus is
the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature. He
was begotten of the Father, even before the heavens and earth and
creatures.15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every
creature:It was through the Son, that all things were created. The Father
willed it, and the Son created it.16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that
are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or
dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:Jesus is the Son of God. He was begotten of the Father in the
beginning. And through the Son, by the Son, who was made equal to the Father in authority and bore the complete indwelling of the Father, all things were created through the Son by the Father through the ministry of the Holy Spirit.So many today have been trapped by the trinity doctrine. They want to believe that Jesus is God, but the bible plainly states that Jesus is the spoken word of God. This word was the beginning of all creation. This word was the Son of God. Even before the heavens and the earth, God begat his Son, the word.
Hi!
I couldn't help but pay notice to your NickName.
Ummm, Jesus is NOT appearing IN clouds. When He appears, Jesus will be WITH clouds. Dan 7:13, “I saw in the night visions, and, behold, [one] like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.” 1Th 4:17, “Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord”.
While at first glance this might seem a rather small/quaint distinction, it is nevertheless a powerful image which represents the Church which has its citizenship in the Kingdom of Heaven.
When Jesus appears, He appears with clouds of glory … meaning to say, He appears WITH His victorious people from all times/aeons/places. Thus it becomes true, -Christ in us, our hope of glory -.
When God, (the Great Architect), created the heavens and the earth, He did so in a manner completely contrary to the customary ways of an earthly architect. An earthly architect would normally create the model first and then the building itself. But God did the entire opposite! God created the building (the heavens) first and then the model (the earth). In this respect, the earth is a natural picture of a spiritual realities. This is, for example, testified to in Romans 1:20, “For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made”
Therefore, we know the image of the moon in, for example, the Book of Revelation to be an image of Jesus Christ who is the Light shining in the darkness. So then too, when the Book of Revelation speaks of the moon turning to a colour of blood red, it means to say that the church becomes completely naturally orientated because it has neglected to pay heed to its falling … (forfeiting its citizenship in heavenly places).
Anyways, back to the image of the clouds:
Clouds are the result of the evaporation of millions of droplets of water from the seas which form a collective unity in the atmosphere. This is a visible picture of an invisible reality; a natural image representing a spiritual truth. Jesus constantly spoke in these terms throughout His ministry and we recognize these as 'Parables'.
When a person is Born Again upon hearing the Gospel of Repentance, his invisible inner-man rises up like a droplet of water from the Sea of Death and “sits in heavenly places”. These millions of regenerated human spirits having citizenship in the heavens therefore collectively form a cloud of witnesses. So, when Jesus appears with clouds, it means to say that He appears with His victorious Church because they are inseparable.Anyways, those are my hurried comments about 'clouds'.
Now, concerning your comment as follows:
“So many today have been trapped by the trinity doctrine. They want to believe that Jesus is God, but the bible plainly states that Jesus is the spoken word of God. This word was the beginning of all creation. This word was the Son of God. Even before the heavens and the earth, God begat his Son, the word.”
It is with much sadness that we have to admit that not many Christians perceive this as readily as you do and therefore these fail to have a proper knowing as to the eternal plans and ultimate intentions of God with His creatures.Yet the Parable of the 'Pearl of Great Price' holds a most valuable key to this day and hour when, as Matthew 24:14 reads, “this Gospel of the Kingdom will be preached throughout the whole world”. The Parable clearly shows us by visible earthly images the unseen spiritual reality of the heavenly transaction which purchased us from the devices of the enemy. The Merchant (the evil one) volunteered to relinquish the millions of human spirits which were legally his property, (because you are legally enslaved/owned and also rendered wages by the one whom you choose to serve), in exchange for Jesus … the 'pearl without blemish' … the One Who refused to become enslaved/employed by the evil one and therefore escaped his wages of Death.
Consequently, we were ransomed from the enemy and our confession of that spiritual transaction effected our resurrection from the Sea of Death and we now have escaped the Kingdom of Darkness (the realm of death) and have entered into the Kingdom of Light.
Sorry for the long read!
I was simply cruising the Internet doing a GoogleSearch of some Christian studies I was doing when I bumped into this WebSite/Forum.Thanks for letting me offer my comments.
God bless!Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 11 2006,11:29) Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ June 10 2006,14:14) Is Jesus God? Yes. He was made God by the Father through the indwelling and all of creation came into existance by him and through him by the will of the Father. The indwelling was with the Son from the beginning and was with him always until the cross. When Jesus became our sin, the indwelling left him for the first time since he was begotten. The Father had to seperate himself from the Son because the Son had become sin. It was for this reason the Son came into the world as a man. Will Jesus remain God. No.
1 Cor. 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
Hi H,
I believe the indwelling by the Spirit of God was only from the Jordan.
Otherwise you cannot see the Word who was with God in the beginning,
and understand Phil 2.5-7,
and grasp his normal life till 30
and his transformation experience by the Spirit at his baptism.
Of all the failures in Christianity, the largest success of failure is the schizophrenic and borderline pagan ideas we have concerning the only good and perfect character and attributes of God. Second to that failure are our varied misconceptions with regards to the 'Word' and 'Jesus' and 'Son of God' and 'Son of Man'.
The keys of the Kingdom are urgently needed in this day and hour so that we might become more enlightened and better equipped to discard the many false images and near blasphemous confessions we express against His holy Name.Jesus is not God.
Jesus is LORD!To US living in this very moment, (eternity now), Jesus is the Second Adam … but to God, (according to His Word … according to His original intents and purposes), Jesus is the full revelation of the First Adam, (eternity past).
Adam and Eve were intended from the beginning to mature and develop as spiritual beings, (as sons of God), but they followed after the wicked inspirations of the evil one. Therefore, the Word … the same Word … the same thoughts and purposes of God … went forth to conquer all the opposition and adversity because nothing which God utters or thinks returns to Him void or futile. It was that same powerful Word which came to Mary and which shook both the visible and invisible worlds. And, so it is … that Mary testified, “Let it be according to your will” … according to your original intents and purposes from the beginning.
That is why the Scriptures say that the just shall live by the faith OF God. God has faith in His abilities … God has faith in His plans and intents towards his Creation.
God has faith in you and me too! And, we have God's faith towards others too. That is why we say to our children, “One day you will grow up and be such a good person”. God's faith declares that one day we will grow and develop as spiritual beings and assume our kingship in the heavenly realms … just like Jesus (the Son of Man) attained before us.
The devil has faith too. Otherwise, he would not continue on with his evil devices and plans to steal our inheritance and forcefully make himself King of the invisible worlds in our stead. His faith confesses, “You will never amount to anything! You are a miserable sinner and will remain a spiritual midget”. Just as our natural children succomb to murky doubts created by the false confessions of their parents and become socially deviant , so too Christians also falter under this accusatory faith of the enemy and become spiritually aborted.I have the faith of God in His Word too. I confess that His Word … His intents and purposes for my existence … will be wonderfully accomplished in and thru me. And, that is why I also confess that the Word of God becomes flesh in me too … just like the Word of God became flesh in Jesus.
It is the spirit of the anti-christ which confesses the faith of the enemy and which clings to his evil designs. It is that faith of the enemy (the spirit of the anti-christ) which denies that the Word of God appears in the flesh … OUR flesh!
Hi and welcome dunno,
Clouds are interesting. Is not the day of the Lord also known as the day of clouds?
[cf Jl 2.2,Ezek 30.3,Zph 1.15,,Ps 97.2,Ps 104.3,etc]]Dear Dunno,
You are wrong about Jesus being God. Listen to God speaking to his Son in Hebrews. Also it is the flesh that is put to death as we grow in the spirit of faith in Jesus. Don't have confidence in the flesh. Jesus came to free us from the stronghold of the flesh. The more faith we have in Jesus, the stronger our faith and the more we mortify the flesh.
1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ June 25 2006,13:26) Dear Dunno, You are wrong about Jesus being God. Listen to God speaking to his Son in Hebrews.
Hi!You wrote: “You are wrong about Jesus being God”.
I am sorry if I may have left that impression.
I meant to state that Jesus is NOT God.
Rather, the truth of the scriptures declare that Jesus is LORD!
Jesus is also King of Kings … because WE are kings too.
Jesus is also Lord of Lords … because WE are lords too.All one has to do is take a deep pondering breath and catch the very simple imaginings of our Heavenly Father for a brief second … remembering, of course, that “eye hath not seen nor ear heard … ” … and realize that this wonderful Salvation Plan … the eternal intents and ultimate purposes of our God … are absolutely beyond even our most vivid abilities to conceive or comprehend. The same God who created the universe which has astounded learned men from the beginnings of time is also the Author of our most glorious Salvation.
So it is that we should not fall victim to spiritually impoverished views which limit the glorious purpose which God is revealing in/thru those who love Him and follow after His desires.
The Bible says that those who wish to receive anything from God must first believe that He exists. Yet, the god who exists for many is a false and pagan god … a schizophrenic god … a god who does evil as well as good … a god who tempts … a god who kills and also makes alive … a god who pays the wages of sin … a god who enjoys revenge, recompense and vengenance. These attributes and characteristics are totally alien to the True God which we honor and follow. God is only and perfectly good!
We have to be sure that the God Whom we follow after does not find His existence in murky imaginings and false doctrines which so many hold in these days. Otherwise, we can expect to receive nothing of consequence from Him.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 25 2006,06:09) Hi and welcome dunno,
Clouds are interesting. Is not the day of the Lord also known as the day of clouds?
[cf Jl 2.2,Ezek 30.3,Zph 1.15,,Ps 97.2,Ps 104.3,etc]]
Hi! NickI am very happy to have found this Forum … ummmm, even excited … simply because there are ideas being presented here which are rare spiritual treasures not often found in Christian Cyberspace.
I too have a 'private' WebSite which also hosts DiscussionForums and StreamingAudio and such components. So, I can easily recognize the enormous efforts required to maintain a WebSite/Forums like this.
It was precisely YOUR Post(s) to a Thread which directed me here. https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….1;t=638 . I immediately recognized that your insight into the Gospel was very much enlightened and thus became intrigued and read more of other Posts here … and, subsequently chose to reply to a few.
So, thank you for your work here. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and for allowing others like myself to share too.
We are living in a time when the Spirit is being poured out upon all flesh. Great strides are being accomplished in the natural world as the collective spirits of men seek out the deep things of natural creation. But, more importantly, we are also living in a time when the Spirit is equipping the people of God in an astonishing manner. Glorious spiritual treasures which have hitherto been 'hidden' in times past are now being gloriously revealed to the those who strive to remain faithful to Him and belong to the faithful/victorious Church.
It is good that your WebSite/Forums allow us the opportunity to share from one another's treasures.
Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ June 25 2006,13:26) Dear Dunno, You are wrong about Jesus being God. Listen to God speaking to his Son in Hebrews. Also it is the flesh that is put to death as we grow in the spirit of faith in Jesus. Don't have confidence in the flesh. Jesus came to free us from the stronghold of the flesh. The more faith we have in Jesus, the stronger our faith and the more we mortify the flesh.
1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
Hi H,
When God calls His Son “God” in scripture and this is well shown in Hebrews, then is He saying he is a being who He worships, His God?No but Jesus does call the Father his God in Jn 20.
So it does not denote the Son as a deity to be worshipped but denotes his origins as a divine being, the only begotten Son of the Father.
“For us there is One God, the Father, and One Lord, Jesus Christ..”[1Cor 8]
Quote (Dunno @ June 25 2006,17:13) . All one has to do is take a deep pondering breath and catch the very simple imaginings of our Heavenly Father for a brief second … remembering, of course, that “eye hath not seen nor ear heard … ” … and realize that this wonderful Salvation Plan … the eternal intents and ultimate purposes of our God … are absolutely beyond even our most vivid abilities to conceive or comprehend.
God is only and perfectly good!
Hi dunno,
But we do not know what 'good' means. As you say in other ways we cannot begin to comprehend a God who has ways so far above ours.Men have their understanding of 'goodness' but they should not attempt to foolishly apply it to God. Instead they should realise that we can only understand the nature of God through His creation and through His revelation of Himself in the vessel of His Son.
That is a God who calls men snakes and says plants not planted by Him will be rooted out. He is a God Who overturns the tables of commerce in the Temple. God is a Gardener who only allows trees to continue growing or branches to stay on the vine if they produce that good fruit.
Such is goodness.
Our views of perfection are totally inadequate.
Nick, you don't know what you are saying. You are arguing with the word of God, not me. If God the Father, refers to the Son as God, it is because the Father has made him God until all things have been subdued. The son is the will of the Father, making him God. You can deny the scriptures if you like, yet know this, it is the spirit of the antichist that does this. Jesus was made God over all of creation by the Father. The Father exercises his will through the son by the unction of the Holy Spirit. If God refers to the Son as God and it says in Hebrews that all things was created by the Son, sould we not call the Son God? What about
John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.
To deny Jesus as God is of the spirit of the antichrist.
Hi H,
“Jesus Christ is the same, yesterday, today and forever”
But you say he has been made God?
So from one nature he became another nature?Scripture tends to suggest rather the opposite that he emptied himself and partook of flesh becoming for a time less than the angels. That did not change his nature but hid from spiritually blind men his real nature as the Son of God, a vessel for God.
Thomas believed what Jesus had told him-that to see him was also to see God-because God was in him reconciling the world to Himself[2Cor5]
Who came in the flesh H. This is a 'scriptural test' for the antichrist spirit[1Jn 4.2]
Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ June 26 2006,04:45) Does it or does it not say in scripture that he is God Nick? Yes or No?
Hicitc,Do you mean that he is A God or that he is the very Most High God?
Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ June 25 2006,23:45) Does it or does it not say in scripture that he is God Nick? Yes or No?
Hi H,
He says he has a God.
Is this the same God?
Does he worship himself?Scripture also calls angels men, and calls men gods too, so you must be careful about how you grasp these matters.
Dear Cubes,
There is God the Father. He begat the Son and made him God over all of creation. The Son does only the will of the Father. That is what makes him God. He is the image of the Father.
Hebrews 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:
Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ June 26 2006,06:24) Dear Cubes, There is God the Father. He begat the Son and made him God over all of creation. The Son does only the will of the Father. That is what makes him God. He is the image of the Father.
Hebrews 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:
Hi Hicitc:To the degree that you acknowledge that the Father is above the son and the God of him, I agree with your statement.
Yes Cubes. The Father is Jesus's God and or God. Although Jesus is not the Most High, he is a divine being. His nature is from God.
He did partake of human nature when he came to earth however, and in that sense he was a man.
Cubes and t8, you bros are not just a couple of pretty faces. You know what you are talking about. Yet, you are correct. Jesus is the Son and he does answer to the Father. He only does the will of the Father. He is the perfect will of the Father.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
