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Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ June 14 2006,02:05) When Jesus became our sin, God could not be with the Son. If that is forsaking, I don't know what it is. If the Father did not turn from the son, the son would not have said, Father, why hast thou forsaken me. Yet, this was only to his death.
Hi H,
Ps 104.29
“You hide Your face, they are dismayed”Was this the situation of the dying Son of God, bearing the sin of the world while God hid His face?
29 Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled:
Sounds like more then one person to me Nick. I don't think this passage is talking about the Lord on the cross.
Hi H,
Is 54 7f?
“For a brief moment I forsook you,
but with great compassion I will gather you.
In an outburst of anger I hid My Face from you for a moment,
but with everlasting lovingkindness I will have compassion on you”This scripture is speaking of the reproach of original sin and how man was apart from God because of sin.
Hi H,
Or was it Israel, represented by the scapegoat Son, carrying the sins of the world to the Cross?I believe this scripture is speaking of the reproach of sin between God and man, yet as you stated, when read in context with the entire chapter, it reveals Israel once again being in good grace with God. This is prophesy that will be fulfulled when the church is removed the Israel is once again the keeper of God's Holy Word. The time of the Gentiles will be finished. Thanks Nick.
Hi H,
Ps 31.5
“into Thy hands I commit my spirit”
are the words spoken by Jesus at his death.
v16
“make Thy face to shine upon Thy servant”
v 22
“As for me I said in my alarm
'I am cut off before Thine eyes'”Was the Son truly forsaken?
Hi H,
Is the Son of God the only one whom God's Spirit has forsaken? Did that Spirit forsake the prophets or the great men of old? Is it the nature of God to forsake those He loves?Hi,
Back to the subject.
God so loved the world that He gave his only begotten Son.
Thus he was a Son when He was given as a Gift to mankind, a gift in which was life.
That life could only be released by the death of the seed falling to the ground.Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 22 2006,23:50) Hi H,
Then how do you resolve Rom 11.29 if the Holy Spirit is a gift[Lk 11.13f]?
What you are looking at there is the difference between a gift (as promised to us) and the giver (as was in Jesus) for in him the fulness of God dwelt, that is not the case with us.Can God have anything to do with sin? When Jesus became our sin, the Father had to be apart from the son. It is for this reason the son said, Father, why hast thou forsaken me. Yet, at the death of the son, it was finished.
Jesus was at death's door. He had become the sin of the world and the Father, who is perfect in all ways, had to turn away. The Father could have no part with sin. If you cannot fathom this Nick, then your Father and my Father are not one in the same. It is for this reason the Father begat the Son, to take away the reproach of mankind.
So when Jesus became our sin and when he said, Father, why hast thou forsaken me, though he fulfilled prophesy by saying it, he also meant it. For the Father can have no part with sin. To say anything different is to say God can. That is something satan would say.
Hi H,
Why is it that anyone who does not immediately agree with you is of Satan or has some sort of familiar spirit? Are you infallible, like you imagine the KJV is?Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ June 24 2006,13:41) Jesus was at death's door. He had become the sin of the world and the Father, who is perfect in all ways, had to turn away. The Father could have no part with sin. If you cannot fathom this Nick, then your Father and my Father are not one in the same. It is for this reason the Father begat the Son, to take away the reproach of mankind. So when Jesus became our sin and when he said, Father, why hast thou forsaken me, though he fulfilled prophesy by saying it, he also meant it. For the Father can have no part with sin. To say anything different is to say God can. That is something satan would say.
Hi H,
I agree.
The Father had to turn away.
But to turn away and withdraw His face is not to forsake but certainly makes one feel forsaken. The Son was never truly rejected or truly abandoned surely?What of the unity he said he had with the Father?
“The Father and I are one”
“He who has seen me has seen the Father”Was that no longer true on the cross?
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