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Col. 1
12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be
partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath
translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the
forgiveness of sins:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every
creature:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that
are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or
dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by
him, and for him:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning,
the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the
preeminence.19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to
reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be
things in earth, or things in heaven.John 1 In the begining was the Word, and the Word was with God, and
the Word was God. Even before the heavens and the earth, God begat
his Son, the Word. Many refuse to believe that the Son was brought
into existance by the Father, because they want to believe that the
Father, not the Son, died for our sins. When Jesus became our sin on
the cross, the Father had to turn away and that is why Jesus said, “
Father, why hast thou forsaken me.”Although the Son was of the Father and exercised all authority of
the Godhead, he was not the Father and is not the Father. Jesus is
the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature. He
was begotten of the Father, even before the heavens and earth and
creatures.15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every
creature:It was through the Son, that all things were created. The Father
willed it, and the Son created it.16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that
are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or
dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:Jesus is the Son of God. He was begotten of the Father in the
beginning. And through the Son, by the Son, who was made equal to the Father in authority and bore the complete indwelling of the Father, all things were created through the Son by the Father through the ministry of the Holy Spirit.So many today have been trapped by the trinity doctrine. They want to believe that Jesus is God, but the bible plainly states that Jesus is the spoken word of God. This word was the beginning of all creation. This word was the Son of God. Even before the heavens and the earth, God begat his Son, the word.
Is Jesus God? Yes. He was made God by the Father through the indwelling and all of creation came into existance by him and through him by the will of the Father. The indwelling was with the Son from the beginning and was with him always until the cross. When Jesus became our sin, the indwelling left him for the first time since he was begotten. The Father had to seperate himself from the Son because the Son had become sin. It was for this reason the Son came into the world as a man.
Will Jesus remain God. No.
1 Cor. 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ June 10 2006,14:14) Is Jesus God? Yes. He was made God by the Father through the indwelling and all of creation came into existance by him and through him by the will of the Father. The indwelling was with the Son from the beginning and was with him always until the cross. When Jesus became our sin, the indwelling left him for the first time since he was begotten. The Father had to seperate himself from the Son because the Son had become sin. It was for this reason the Son came into the world as a man. Will Jesus remain God. No.
1 Cor. 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
So who was God before Jesus was God?
And who will be God after Jesus has had his turn?Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ June 10 2006,14:14) Is Jesus God? Yes. He was made God by the Father through the indwelling and all of creation came into existance by him and through him by the will of the Father. The indwelling was with the Son from the beginning and was with him always until the cross. When Jesus became our sin, the indwelling left him for the first time since he was begotten. The Father had to seperate himself from the Son because the Son had become sin. It was for this reason the Son came into the world as a man. Will Jesus remain God. No.
1 Cor. 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
Hi H,
I believe the indwelling by the Spirit of God was only from the Jordan.
Otherwise you cannot see the Word who was with God in the beginning,
and understand Phil 2.5-7,
and grasp his normal life till 30
and his transformation experience by the Spirit at his baptism.When the Son was begat of the Father, his soul or spirit was concieved or brought into existance in the beginning. When the Son came into the world, even though he came without the full measure of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, which in itself is symbolic of a born again believer without the baptism of the Holy Spirit, did not mean he did not have inpart some of the Holy Spirit. For each person who is born again has partial part of the Holy Spirit when saved. Now when Jesus did receive the water baptism, the Father gave him the full measure of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and at the time he began his ministry.
Hi H,
That is an opinion H.
Was there ever a time when the Word had life in himself without the indwelling presence of the Spirit of the Father?
Is the anointing of the Word in heaven as you teach shown in scripture?Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ June 11 2006,21:22) Did Jesus have a spirit?
Hi H,
Yes, he was like to us in all ways but sin and his spirit left him at his physical death.
Mat 27.50
“..and yielded up his spirit”Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ June 11 2006,21:23) Did Jesus say these words on the cross? Father, why hast thou forsaken me?
Hi H,
Yes and in saying them quoted scripture.Oppressed with the huge burden of the sins of the world the last vestiges of his humanity felt desolate. But God was still with him.
Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ June 11 2006,21:13) In the beginning was the Word
Hi H,
How long was “the beginning”. Does this state he was with the Father from infinity? No. Just from “the beginning”.Dear Nick,
Was the son with the Father as those who believe in the trinity? I don't believe it. For how can that which is spoken become into existance, until it first be spoken? The actual being of the son did not come into being until the Father begat him.
As for the Father being with the Son on the cross when the Son became our sin, this was impossilble. For the light has no place with darkness. It was for this reason the Father begat the Son.
Hi H,
The fact that the Word was with God in the beginning makes no statement about origin. He is the Son of God and sons have a beginning I agree.
The Spirit of God never forsakes us and remains with us. Are you saying it was different for Jesus and God really did forsake His Son?Yes, Nick, that is exactly what I am saying. God is perfect. He cannot have any contact with sin at all. It is for this reason he sent his Son. Does light have place with darkness. God is perfection, perfect light. He begat his Son to take away the reproach away from the world. It was for this reason the Son was created, even before the heavens and the earth.
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