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Quote Yes, that's why so many Mary's. The authors could confuse the issue that way. –tOWshab.
Yes, all these mary's can be confusing. Maybe there was so many mary's because “mary” was a common name back then, just like “John” was an extremely popular name in the early part of last century.
If you're having trouble putting these accounts together, let me try to help.
Early Sunday morning Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James, along with Salome, Joanna, and other women, bring spices to the tomb to treat Jesus’ body. En route they say to one another: “Who will roll the stone away from the door of the memorial tomb for us?” But on arriving, they find that an earthquake has occurred and Jehovah’s angel has rolled the stone away. The guards are gone, and the tomb is empty.
When the women find Jesus’ tomb empty, Mary Magdalene runs off to tell Peter and John. However, the other women evidently remain at the tomb. Soon, an angel appears and invites them inside.
Here the women see yet another angel, and one of the angels says to them: : “Do not you be fearful, for I know you are looking for Jesus who was impaled. He is not here, for he was raised up, as he said. Come, see the place where he was lying. And go quickly and tell his disciples that he was raised up from the dead.” So with fear and great joy, these women also run off.
By this time, Mary has found Peter and John, and she reports to them: “They have taken away the Lord out of the memorial tomb, and we do not know where they have laid him.” Immediately the two apostles take off running. John is fleeter of foot—evidently being younger—and he reaches the tomb first. By this time the women have left, so no one is around. Stooping down, John peers into the tomb and sees the bandages, but he remains outside.
When Peter arrives, he does not hesitate but goes right on in. He sees the bandages lying there and also the cloth used to wrap Jesus’ head. It is rolled up in one place. John now also enters the tomb, and he believes Mary’s report. But neither Peter nor John grasps that Jesus has been raised up, even though He had often told them that He would be. Puzzled, the two return home, but Mary, who has come back to the tomb, remains.
In the meantime, the other women are hurrying to tell the disciples that Jesus has been resurrected, as the angels commanded them to do. While they are running along as fast as they can, Jesus meets them and says: “Good day!” Falling at his feet, they do obeisance to him. Then Jesus says: “Have no fear! Go, report to my brothers, that they may go off into Galilee; and there they will see me.” Earlier, when the earthquake occurred and the angels appeared, the soldiers on guard were stunned and became as dead men. Upon recovering, they immediately went into the city and told the chief priests what had happened. After consulting with the “older men” of the Jews, the decision was made to try to hush up the matter by bribing the soldiers. They were instructed: “Say, ‘His disciples came in the night and stole him while we were sleeping.’” Since Roman soldiers may be punished with death for falling asleep at their posts, the priests promised: “If this [report of your falling asleep] gets to the governor’s ears, we will persuade him and will set you free from worry.” Since the size of the bribe was sufficiently large, the soldiers did as they were instructed. As a result, the false report about the theft of Jesus’ body became widely spread among the Jews.
Mary Magdalene, who remains behind at the tomb, is overcome by grief. Where could Jesus be? Stooping forward to look into the tomb, she sees the two angels in white, who have reappeared! One is sitting at the head and the other at the foot of where Jesus’ body had been lying. “Woman, why are you weeping?” they ask.
“They have taken my Lord away,” Mary answers, “and I do not know where they have laid him.”. . . .
Matthew 28:3-15; Mark 16:5-8; Luke 24:4-12; John 20:2-18.Please explain where the contradiction is.
Quote (Towshab @ Oct. 26 2007,12:36) Hello forum, I do apologize if I've come off as offensive. That is not my intention. I have had some people trying to evangelize me and they actually got testy with me when I would not turn back to Christianity. So I came in here with an over zealous attitude it seems.
To the guy who thinks I've demon possessed, I can only laugh. I have encountered people like you before and it was one of several reasons I started to question Christianity. There are many more things though. The rest is history.
As Kevin told you, I hear of this forum through him. He said it was a place he hung out and that you people where big into seeking the truth of religions. He did say Christianity though, not religions, I added that part
.I look at it this way – if you are strong in your faith and know you have truth, my words should not bother you. I could not say the same. To the other people who said I never was 'saved' to begin with, perhaps not. Not in the Christian way but I don't believe in that anyway. Nowhere in Jewish scripture do I find the idea that G-d said I must trust in another man to have salvation. G-d told us many times in His Bible that He was the only savior.
That is where a big contradiction comes in for the Christian bible. All throughout the Jewish Bible, G-d says He is the only savior, that there is no other. Then along comes Jesus and people call him the savior. How did G-d change? Thus now Christians have to either say Jesus is G-d (idol worship) or that G-d lied in the Jewish Bible. If the Jewish Bible is false, Christianity is false, because Christianity is based on Judaism (or was). You can't have it any other way.
Again sorry for the bad impression. I simply believe that Christianity is flawed in that it is idol worship. That is an abomination to G-d, something that constantly led many of the Israelites away from G-d. He detests idol worship.
look into the El and YHWH fusion on google. The Jews are hiding the fact that YHWH inherited Israel from his Father.Christianity is the only religion of the big 3 “revealed” religions that is (i should say was since the trinity doctrine changed that) being honest about the henotheistic beliefs of the Old testament.
Out of the big 3 Christianity is the only one that is not denying this past.
That for me makes it the only possible place to find true among the big 3.
I may be alone here on this forum for my beliefs. But amongst the secular scholars I have a large crowd.
Quote (Morningstar @ Oct. 26 2007,14:45) Quote (Towshab @ Oct. 26 2007,12:36) Hello forum, I do apologize if I've come off as offensive. That is not my intention. I have had some people trying to evangelize me and they actually got testy with me when I would not turn back to Christianity. So I came in here with an over zealous attitude it seems.
To the guy who thinks I've demon possessed, I can only laugh. I have encountered people like you before and it was one of several reasons I started to question Christianity. There are many more things though. The rest is history.
As Kevin told you, I hear of this forum through him. He said it was a place he hung out and that you people where big into seeking the truth of religions. He did say Christianity though, not religions, I added that part
.I look at it this way – if you are strong in your faith and know you have truth, my words should not bother you. I could not say the same. To the other people who said I never was 'saved' to begin with, perhaps not. Not in the Christian way but I don't believe in that anyway. Nowhere in Jewish scripture do I find the idea that G-d said I must trust in another man to have salvation. G-d told us many times in His Bible that He was the only savior.
That is where a big contradiction comes in for the Christian bible. All throughout the Jewish Bible, G-d says He is the only savior, that there is no other. Then along comes Jesus and people call him the savior. How did G-d change? Thus now Christians have to either say Jesus is G-d (idol worship) or that G-d lied in the Jewish Bible. If the Jewish Bible is false, Christianity is false, because Christianity is based on Judaism (or was). You can't have it any other way.
Again sorry for the bad impression. I simply believe that Christianity is flawed in that it is idol worship. That is an abomination to G-d, something that constantly led many of the Israelites away from G-d. He detests idol worship.
look into the El and YHWH fusion on google. The Jews are hiding the fact that YHWH inherited Israel from his Father. [/quote]
I'm waiting for the punchline. Will it come in your next post?Christianity is the only religion of the big 3 “revealed” religions that is (i should say was since the trinity doctrine changed that) being honest about the henotheistic beliefs of the Old testament.
Out of the big 3 Christianity is the only one that is not denying this past.
That for me makes it the only possible place to find true among the big 3.
I may be alone here on this forum for my beliefs. But amongst the secular scholars I have a large crowd.
I would think so since they have no interest in G-d anyway.Quote (david @ Oct. 26 2007,14:17) Towshab states: Quote That is where a big contradiction comes in for the Christian bible. All throughout the Jewish Bible, G-d says He is the only savior, that there is no other. Then along comes Jesus and people call him the savior. How did G-d change? Right. God is the only savior. Without him, there could be no salvation. We owe everything to him. But what if he decided to save us “through” his son. He would still be our savior. Yet, we could also call the son a savior to us, could we not?
Yes, you can, if you are willing to admit your god is not the G-d of Israel.Quote Jude 25 shows the relationship, saying: “GOD, OUR SAVIOR THROUGH JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD.”
(See also acts 13:23)
The promised Messiah was never to be part of our spiritual salvation. Since I deny the Christian bible, show me where the Messiah is to be our savior using the Jewish scriptures.Quote Let's look at the Hebrew scriptures for a moment and consider whether this is a contradiction:
At Judges 3:9, the same Hebrew word (moh·shi′a‛, rendered “savior” or “deliverer”) that is used at Isaiah 43:11 is applied to Othniel, a judge in Israel, but that certainly did not make Othniel Jehovah, did it?
No, so are you saying that your Jesus is just a temporary redeemer then? Each of the redeemers in the Jewish history are dead now, and the were the men that G-d used to redeem Israel. None delivered people into eternal life, only Hashem can do that.Quote ((If it is not a contradiction here, in the Hebrew scriptures,then it is not a contradiction if Jesus is also called a savior, especially if he is a savior “through” Jehovah.))
Then, like Othniel, his redemptive role ended at his death. Who took Jesus' place? Paul? Who took Paul's place? G-d alone is eternal.Quote Back to the context of the Is 43:11 which says: “Besides me there is no savior.”
A reading of Isaiah 43:1-12 shows that verse 11 means that Jehovah alone was the One who provided salvation, or deliverance, for Israel; that salvation did not come from any of the gods of the surrounding nations.This is no contradiction. Most of what Towshab has shown are things he has clearly wanted to be contradictions.
david
So do you believe that Jesus is G-d? That is the only possibility because G-d alone is our eternal savior. All others end their role when they die. Since Jesus resurrection cannot be verified outside of the Christian bible, there is no reason to believe it is real.Quote (david @ Oct. 26 2007,14:28) Quote Yes, that's why so many Mary's. The authors could confuse the issue that way. –tOWshab.
Yes, all these mary's can be confusing. Maybe there was so many mary's because “mary” was a common name back then, just like “John” was an extremely popular name in the early part of last century.
If you're having trouble putting these accounts together, let me try to help.
Early Sunday morning Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James, along with Salome, Joanna, and other women, bring spices to the tomb to treat Jesus’ body. En route they say to one another: “Who will roll the stone away from the door of the memorial tomb for us?” But on arriving, they find that an earthquake has occurred and Jehovah’s angel has rolled the stone away. The guards are gone, and the tomb is empty.
When the women find Jesus’ tomb empty, Mary Magdalene runs off to tell Peter and John. However, the other women evidently remain at the tomb. Soon, an angel appears and invites them inside.
Matthew does not support your theory.
——————
Mat 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
Mat 28:2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.
Mat 28:3 His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:
Mat 28:4 And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men.
Mat 28:5 And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified.
Mat 28:6 He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.
Mat 28:7 And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and, behold, he goeth before you into Galilee; there shall ye see him: lo, I have told you.
Mat 28:8 And they departed quickly from the sepulchre with fear and great joy; and did run to bring his disciples word.
——————–
Matthew only has two women going to the tomb, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary (whoever she is). The angel spoke to both of them and they both left according to verses 28:5 and 28:8. Matthew does not show them leaving before they encountered the angel.Mark adds Salome, but he also uses 'they'. Luke does not list names (Luke was smartest). Yet John is the only one to have Mary Magdalene leaving and then coming back. Contradiction.
Still, Luke messes up because he doesn't show Mary M. meeting Jesus at all. Since Luke and Matthew copied from Mark, they both embellished the original story that was cut short by Mark because Christianity needed more than that from the resurrected Jesus.
Quote Here the women see yet another angel, and one of the angels says to them: : “Do not you be fearful, for I know you are looking for Jesus who was impaled. He is not here, for he was raised up, as he said. Come, see the place where he was lying. And go quickly and tell his disciples that he was raised up from the dead.” So with fear and great joy, these women also run off. By this time, Mary has found Peter and John, and she reports to them: “They have taken away the Lord out of the memorial tomb, and we do not know where they have laid him.” Immediately the two apostles take off running. John is fleeter of foot—evidently being younger—and he reaches the tomb first. By this time the women have left, so no one is around. Stooping down, John peers into the tomb and sees the bandages, but he remains outside.
When Peter arrives, he does not hesitate but goes right on in. He sees the bandages lying there and also the cloth used to wrap Jesus’ head. It is rolled up in one place. John now also enters the tomb, and he believes Mary’s report. But neither Peter nor John grasps that Jesus has been raised up, even though He had often told them that He would be. Puzzled, the two return home, but Mary, who has come back to the tomb, remains.
In the meantime, the other women are hurrying to tell the disciples that Jesus has been resurrected, as the angels commanded them to do. While they are running along as fast as they can, Jesus meets them and says: “Good day!” Falling at his feet, they do obeisance to him. Then Jesus says: “Have no fear! Go, report to my brothers, that they may go off into Galilee; and there they will see me.” Earlier, when the earthquake occurred and the angels appeared, the soldiers on guard were stunned and became as dead men. Upon recovering, they immediately went into the city and told the chief priests what had happened. After consulting with the “older men” of the Jews, the decision was made to try to hush up the matter by bribing the soldiers. They were instructed: “Say, ‘His disciples came in the night and stole him while we were sleeping.’” Since Roman soldiers may be punished with death for falling asleep at their posts, the priests promised: “If this [report of your falling asleep] gets to the governor’s ears, we will persuade him and will set you free from worry.” Since the size of the bribe was sufficiently large, the soldiers did as they were instructed. As a result, the false report about the theft of Jesus’ body became widely spread among the Jews.
Mary Magdalene, who remains behind at the tomb, is overcome by grief. Where could Jesus be? Stooping forward to look into the tomb, she sees the two angels in white, who have reappeared! One is sitting at the head and the other at the foot of where Jesus’ body had been lying. “Woman, why are you weeping?” they ask.
“They have taken my Lord away,” Mary answers, “and I do not know where they have laid him.”. . . .
Matthew 28:3-15; Mark 16:5-8; Luke 24:4-12; John 20:2-18.Please explain where the contradiction is.
Already have. You just refuse to see it, but I understand. Christians fear that if they see flaws in the Christian bible, the will doubt. If they doubt, they will lose their salvation. G-d is not that fickle.The belief in a burning pit called hell keeps Christians serving a god in fear. Very sad.
Quote Yes, you can, if you are willing to admit your god is not the G-d of Israel. If Jehovah is not the God of Israel, who is?
Quote Since Jesus resurrection cannot be verified outside of the Christian bible, there is no reason to believe it is real. You could just as easily say God cannot be verified outside the Bible.
But this would be wrong.
I would like to discuss this more, but can't right now.
david
Quote The belief in a burning pit called hell keeps Christians serving a god in fear. Very sad. “hell” (hades) is thrown into the lake of fire, therefore not a “burning pit” as you say.
Why would a burning pit be thrown into fire?Quote (Morningstar @ Oct. 26 2007,14:45) Quote (Towshab @ Oct. 26 2007,12:36) Hello forum, I do apologize if I've come off as offensive. That is not my intention. I have had some people trying to evangelize me and they actually got testy with me when I would not turn back to Christianity. So I came in here with an over zealous attitude it seems.
To the guy who thinks I've demon possessed, I can only laugh. I have encountered people like you before and it was one of several reasons I started to question Christianity. There are many more things though. The rest is history.
As Kevin told you, I hear of this forum through him. He said it was a place he hung out and that you people where big into seeking the truth of religions. He did say Christianity though, not religions, I added that part
.I look at it this way – if you are strong in your faith and know you have truth, my words should not bother you. I could not say the same. To the other people who said I never was 'saved' to begin with, perhaps not. Not in the Christian way but I don't believe in that anyway. Nowhere in Jewish scripture do I find the idea that G-d said I must trust in another man to have salvation. G-d told us many times in His Bible that He was the only savior.
That is where a big contradiction comes in for the Christian bible. All throughout the Jewish Bible, G-d says He is the only savior, that there is no other. Then along comes Jesus and people call him the savior. How did G-d change? Thus now Christians have to either say Jesus is G-d (idol worship) or that G-d lied in the Jewish Bible. If the Jewish Bible is false, Christianity is false, because Christianity is based on Judaism (or was). You can't have it any other way.
Again sorry for the bad impression. I simply believe that Christianity is flawed in that it is idol worship. That is an abomination to G-d, something that constantly led many of the Israelites away from G-d. He detests idol worship.
look into the El and YHWH fusion on google. The Jews are hiding the fact that YHWH inherited Israel from his Father.Christianity is the only religion of the big 3 “revealed” religions that is (i should say was since the trinity doctrine changed that) being honest about the henotheistic beliefs of the Old testament.
Out of the big 3 Christianity is the only one that is not denying this past.
That for me makes it the only possible place to find true among the big 3.
I may be alone here on this forum for my beliefs. But amongst the secular scholars I have a large crowd.
MSYou say…
Quote
I may be alone here on this forum for my beliefs. But amongst the secular scholars I have a large crowd.I am sure you do. But what about the 100s of “Biblical” scholars?
I doubt you will find very much popularity there!
Hi Towshab:
(The belief in a burning pit called hell keeps Christians serving a god in fear. Very sad.) I missed your point. Our Father , God, it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of Him ( God ). Isn't this why your fore-fathers burnt offering? Working out their life with fear and trembling. Shedding blood to cover their sins ? Blood of the innocent. What were they afraid of ? Where did Job's boys go ? Why the law ? What is death? Being placed in a box until someone believes the Messiah shall come ? or has come ? Doesn't the Jewish still shed innocent blood ? Or are they not keeping the law ?
These questions to try to understand the unbelief of your fore-fathers.
Sincerely, …………………….Happyman….May GOD have mercy on your soul.
I can't discuss this anymore…this has gone way to far for me.
To say that JESUS is not real is flat out blasphemy…and I can't engage in further conversation on this matter.
Jesus is real…thats the only reason you can be forgiven of your sins. Ye of little faith…May GOD have mercy on your soul.
With all the beliefs out there someone or somebody is wrong. But I can tell you without having to even look at a bible that GOD, Jesus the SON, and the HOLY GHOST are REAL AS SURE AS I'm TYPING on this forum board.
You can feel the spirit in your soul…Thats real brother…if you can't “Feel” anything…I'd advise you to quit trying to prove GOD and Jesus wrong….and pray…so that you can feel something again.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 26 2007,16:30) Quote (Morningstar @ Oct. 26 2007,14:45) Quote (Towshab @ Oct. 26 2007,12:36) Hello forum, I do apologize if I've come off as offensive. That is not my intention. I have had some people trying to evangelize me and they actually got testy with me when I would not turn back to Christianity. So I came in here with an over zealous attitude it seems.
To the guy who thinks I've demon possessed, I can only laugh. I have encountered people like you before and it was one of several reasons I started to question Christianity. There are many more things though. The rest is history.
As Kevin told you, I hear of this forum through him. He said it was a place he hung out and that you people where big into seeking the truth of religions. He did say Christianity though, not religions, I added that part
.I look at it this way – if you are strong in your faith and know you have truth, my words should not bother you. I could not say the same. To the other people who said I never was 'saved' to begin with, perhaps not. Not in the Christian way but I don't believe in that anyway. Nowhere in Jewish scripture do I find the idea that G-d said I must trust in another man to have salvation. G-d told us many times in His Bible that He was the only savior.
That is where a big contradiction comes in for the Christian bible. All throughout the Jewish Bible, G-d says He is the only savior, that there is no other. Then along comes Jesus and people call him the savior. How did G-d change? Thus now Christians have to either say Jesus is G-d (idol worship) or that G-d lied in the Jewish Bible. If the Jewish Bible is false, Christianity is false, because Christianity is based on Judaism (or was). You can't have it any other way.
Again sorry for the bad impression. I simply believe that Christianity is flawed in that it is idol worship. That is an abomination to G-d, something that constantly led many of the Israelites away from G-d. He detests idol worship.
look into the El and YHWH fusion on google. The Jews are hiding the fact that YHWH inherited Israel from his Father.Christianity is the only religion of the big 3 “revealed” religions that is (i should say was since the trinity doctrine changed that) being honest about the henotheistic beliefs of the Old testament.
Out of the big 3 Christianity is the only one that is not denying this past.
That for me makes it the only possible place to find true among the big 3.
I may be alone here on this forum for my beliefs. But amongst the secular scholars I have a large crowd.
MSYou say…
Quote
I may be alone here on this forum for my beliefs. But amongst the secular scholars I have a large crowd.I am sure you do. But what about the 100s of “Biblical” scholars?
I doubt you will find very much popularity there!
among some I do. The honest ones. IMOI believe most biblical scholars who support trinitarians are mostly made up of seminary graduates and those of a denominational faith who are defending “their” doctrines and faith and have an agenda both personal and financial and really don't look for the truth. Instead they search for ways to apply the facts towards their rhetoric and apologies.
Quote (Morningstar @ Oct. 26 2007,17:32) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 26 2007,16:30) Quote (Morningstar @ Oct. 26 2007,14:45) Quote (Towshab @ Oct. 26 2007,12:36) Hello forum, I do apologize if I've come off as offensive. That is not my intention. I have had some people trying to evangelize me and they actually got testy with me when I would not turn back to Christianity. So I came in here with an over zealous attitude it seems.
To the guy who thinks I've demon possessed, I can only laugh. I have encountered people like you before and it was one of several reasons I started to question Christianity. There are many more things though. The rest is history.
As Kevin told you, I hear of this forum through him. He said it was a place he hung out and that you people where big into seeking the truth of religions. He did say Christianity though, not religions, I added that part
.I look at it this way – if you are strong in your faith and know you have truth, my words should not bother you. I could not say the same. To the other people who said I never was 'saved' to begin with, perhaps not. Not in the Christian way but I don't believe in that anyway. Nowhere in Jewish scripture do I find the idea that G-d said I must trust in another man to have salvation. G-d told us many times in His Bible that He was the only savior.
That is where a big contradiction comes in for the Christian bible. All throughout the Jewish Bible, G-d says He is the only savior, that there is no other. Then along comes Jesus and people call him the savior. How did G-d change? Thus now Christians have to either say Jesus is G-d (idol worship) or that G-d lied in the Jewish Bible. If the Jewish Bible is false, Christianity is false, because Christianity is based on Judaism (or was). You can't have it any other way.
Again sorry for the bad impression. I simply believe that Christianity is flawed in that it is idol worship. That is an abomination to G-d, something that constantly led many of the Israelites away from G-d. He detests idol worship.
look into the El and YHWH fusion on google. The Jews are hiding the fact that YHWH inherited Israel from his Father.Christianity is the only religion of the big 3 “revealed” religions that is (i should say was since the trinity doctrine changed that) being honest about the henotheistic beliefs of the Old testament.
Out of the big 3 Christianity is the only one that is not denying this past.
That for me makes it the only possible place to find true among the big 3.
I may be alone here on this forum for my beliefs. But amongst the secular scholars I have a large crowd.
MSYou say…
Quote
I may be alone here on this forum for my beliefs. But amongst the secular scholars I have a large crowd.I am sure you do. But what about the 100s of “Biblical” scholars?
I doubt you will find very much popularity there!
among some I do. The honest ones. IMOI believe most biblical scholars who support trinitarians are mostly made up of seminary graduates and those of a denominational faith who are defending “their” doctrines and faith and have an agenda both personal and financial and really don't look for the truth. Instead they search for ways to apply the facts towards their rhetoric and apologies.
When I say secular scholars. I do mean biblical scholars. I just don't mean religious scholars or scholars from denominational universities.secular scholars don't have faith based agendas to interpret the scriptural evidence. At worst they may try to prove the bible as a fable, however, they don't try to make doctrines and teachings say things that benefits their careers.
Brother Sam,
Some are not offended at all to hear what they consider good be spoken of as evil. But there are those who are trying to cast a shadow of doubt over anyone who will unknowingly fall into their trap (hot, then cold again…..gradually heating up to boiling). I encouarge you to not listen to those who are doing such things. Mandy
Quote (Samuel @ Oct. 26 2007,17:14) May GOD have mercy on your soul. I can't discuss this anymore…this has gone way to far for me.
To say that JESUS is not real is flat out blasphemy…and I can't engage in further conversation on this matter.
Jesus is real…thats the only reason you can be forgiven of your sins. Ye of little faith…May GOD have mercy on your soul.
With all the beliefs out there someone or somebody is wrong. But I can tell you without having to even look at a bible that GOD, Jesus the SON, and the HOLY GHOST are REAL AS SURE AS I'm TYPING on this forum board.
You can feel the spirit in your soul…Thats real brother…if you can't “Feel” anything…I'd advise you to quit trying to prove GOD and Jesus wrong….and pray…so that you can feel something again.
G-d is merciful.Have you ever stopped to wonder why your bible hardly mentions G-d and focuses on a man, while the Jewish Bible is all about YHVH G-d? Have you ever wondered why our bible tries to eliminate the Torah (what you call the law), while the Jewish Bible emphasizes it? Have you ever wondered why the Jewish Bible is about national revelation, about a nation, while your bible focuses on a few men, and one man in particular?
There is absolutely no evidence in Jewish scriptures that the children are to have to place their trust in a man, even the Messiah, for their salvation. Our salvation has always come from G-d.
As for 'feeling it in your soul', don't you realize that Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Mormons, Hari Krishna's and more could say the very same thing? Yet you say they are lost and going to hell.
The last post was supposed to read “Have you ever wondered why your bible tries to eliminate the Torah”. My 'y' key is not engaging every time
Quote (Samuel @ Oct. 26 2007,17:14) Jesus is real…thats the only reason you can be forgiven of your sins.
Can you show me in the Jewish Bible (you call it the Old Testament) where we do not have forgiveness of sins? If you will review my posts you will find that G-d has always provided a way for us to be forgiven, with or without sacrifice. The fact is, sacrifices are for unintentional sins. Are you saying that Jesus died for only those sins? Where will you go for forgiveness for your other sins, those you willingly commit?Towshab,
Underneath, your disappointment with the Christian faith. Your disgust with Paul. Your disenchament with those who defend Christianity.
Underneath it all, and please be honest, do you miss Jesus?
Is there a part somewhere deep in your heart that wishes you stilled believed or that wishes you could believe?
When you invision Jesus giving his sermon on the mount and you see him in your mind's eye and he turns and looks right at you with his piercing eyes and says.
“Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are those who mourn,
for they will be comforted.
Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.
Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled.
Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called sons of God.
Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. “Even if it's against your will is there a part of you that longs for him?
Is there a part of you that still loves him?
Even if I was to loose my faith this day I don't know if I could ever live my life without an empty spot inside me, without longing to reach out for the one man in history who so completely changed our planet and the hearts of millions.
Who else has ever spoke like he spoke?
Who else has ever demonstrated love like him?
Who else would still love us even if we hated him?
This is a trustworthy saying:
If we die with him,
we will also live with him.
If we endure hardship,
we will reign with him.
If we deny him,
he will deny us.
If we are unfaithful,
he remains faithful,
for he cannot deny who he is.Quote (Towshab @ Oct. 25 2007,11:43) 942767, I'll start with each of your passages and work one per post. The first is Deu 18:15-19 (KJV). I use the KJV because you have easy access to it.
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Deu 18:15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
Deu 18:16 According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.
Deu 18:17 And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken.
Deu 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
Deu 18:19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.
——–
While this is quoted from in the Christian bible, don't assume automatically that it is about Jesus. If I was going to prove a point about my man being the Messiah, I'd use the Jewish scriptures to prove my point as well. That aside, I want to direct you to the last 2 verses in that same chapter.
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Deu 18:21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
Deu 18:22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
——–
Now, if a prophet is a true prophet of Hashem, all of his prophecies will come to pass. Yet Jesus had at least one that did not.
——–
Mat 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
Mat 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.Wait, its been almost 2000 years since Jesus said this. Which one of the people he spoke to here is still alive? Failed prophecy, false prophet. I guess the next avenue would be to speak of a symbolic death, such as the final death, but that doesn't fly. Many people in Jesus day were still looking for him to return. Still looking today.
Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Is 2000 years quickly? Looks like his prophecies are still failing.
Hi Towshab:You say:
Quote While this is quoted from in the Christian bible, don't assume automatically that it is about Jesus. If I was going to prove a point about my man being the Messiah, I'd use the Jewish scriptures to prove my point as well. That aside, I want to direct you to the last 2 verses in that same chapter.
——–
Deu 18:21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
Deu 18:22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
——–
Now, if a prophet is a true prophet of Hashem, all of his prophecies will come to pass. Yet Jesus had at least one that did not.
——–
Mat 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
Mat 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.Wait, its been almost 2000 years since Jesus said this. Which one of the people he spoke to here is still alive? Failed prophecy, false prophet. I guess the next avenue would be to speak of a symbolic death, such as the final death, but that doesn't fly. Many people in Jesus day were still looking for him to return. Still looking today.
Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Is 2000 years quickly? Looks like his prophecies are still failing.
I believe that Matt. 16:28 refers to the fact that some that were hearing him preach the Kingdom of God would not physically die before his resurrection from the dead. At that time he stated: [QUOTEMatt 18:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.[/QUOTE] It was at that time that he came into his kingdom.
And so, the prophecy was fulfilled. And the other prophecy that you mentioned will also be fulfilled. He is waiting for people like you to repent.
Hear the following that God is saying to you:
Quote 3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. 5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting F10 unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
God Bless
Quote (Towshab @ Oct. 25 2007,12:05) 942767, Next, we'll talk about Psalm 110
First thing off the bat, just because this is a Psalm of David does not mean it is a psalm by David. In fact, Darby starts out in verse 1 with 'Psalm for David'. Also, Psalm 72 is a Psalm of Solomon but it is clear it is written about Solomon and not by Solomon. Psalm 144 is a Psalm of David but verse 10 shows David in third person.
Next, most Christian bibles take the liberty of capitalizing 'lord' because they feel it is speaking of Jesus. Again, we have an example of 'reading back' into scripture to make it appear to apply to the Christian messiah. Jesus is called Lord in the Christian bible, the Jewish bible has 'lord' in Psalm 110, all neat and clean right?
This passage could very well be messianic. Only one problem then – Jesus did not fulfill this. I know Christians are waiting for a second coming where all of the unfulfilled prophecies will take place, but there is not a single bit of evidence in the Hebrew bible that the Messiah will not fulfill all of the prophecies the first time. If he does not, he is not the Messiah. Plain as that.
He was never a priest. Paul and his bunch try to get away from that by calling him a high priest in heaven but that finds no support on the Jewish bible either.
Jesus died on the cross (if he even existed). End of his run as a supposed messiah. Which, by the way, means 'anointed'. Yet, he never was properly anointed with oil.
Finally, will Jesus need to 'drink in a brook'?
Ok then Towhab next you say:Quote First thing off the bat, just because this is a Psalm of David does not mean it is a psalm by David. In fact, Darby starts out in verse 1 with 'Psalm for David'. Also, Psalm 72 is a Psalm of Solomon but it is clear it is written about Solomon and not by Solomon. Psalm 144 is a Psalm of David but verse 10 shows David in third person. I believe that it was David speaking Jesus states the following:
Quote Matthew 22:41-46
41 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, 42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The Son of David. 43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying, 44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool? 45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?You then say:
Quote This passage could very well be messianic. Only one problem then – Jesus did not fulfill this. I know Christians are waiting for a second coming where all of the unfulfilled prophecies will take place, but there is not a single bit of evidence in the Hebrew bible that the Messiah will not fulfill all of the prophecies the first time. If he does not, he is not the Messiah. Plain as that. What about the following scripture:
Quote Daniel 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. 14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed Then you say:
Quote He was never a priest. Paul and his bunch try to get away from that by calling him a high priest in heaven but that finds no support on the Jewish bible either He was not a Levitical priest if that is what you mean. But he is our High Priest who has entered into the Holy of holies into the very presence of God for us even as in Yom Kippur the High Priest entered into the Holy of Holies with blood for his own sins and for the sins of the Nation of Israel in the Tabernacle here on earth while it was yet standing.
Quote Hebrews 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? 12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. 13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar. 14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood. 15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest, 16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life. 17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. 18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. 19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God. 20 And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest: 21 (For those priests were made without F20 an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec:) 22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament. 23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death: 24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. 25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. 26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; 27 Who nee
deth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself. 28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated F21 for evermore.You then say:
Quote Jesus died on the cross (if he even existed). End of his run as a supposed messiah. Which, by the way, means 'anointed'. Yet, he never was properly anointed with oil. The passage of scripture that I quoted from the book of Hebrews also speaks to this statement. If someone is to have priesthood forever, it would mean that he would have eternal life. Jesus was raised from the dead and alive forever more. The anointing that was done with oil the Tenach is symbolic of the anointing of the Holy Spirit.
Jesus stated the following when he started his ministry:
Quote Lu 4:18
The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,And lastly you say:
Quote Finally, will Jesus need to 'drink in a brook'? The way that the Psalm reads to me it indicates that God will drink from the brook.
God Bless
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