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Quote (david @ Oct. 25 2007,18:26) Let me help. You have to understand that when two people write of the same happening, they don't capture exactly the same things. Let's take a closer look. At first glance, these accounts may seem to be the exact same account. But really, they are overlapping accounts. And you had them backwards. Let's start with John's account.
The normal apologetic Christian response. If the early Christians would have been smart, they would have picked one gospel and left the other three out. Leaving all 4 in allows anyone to note the glaring discrepancies between them.Quote Joh 20:1 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.
Joh 20:2 Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and saith unto them, They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him.
Joh 20:3 Peter therefore went forth, and that other disciple, and came to the sepulchre.
Joh 20:4 So they ran both together: and the other disciple did outrun Peter, and came first to the sepulchre.
Joh 20:5 And he stooping down, and looking in, saw the linen clothes lying; yet went he not in.
Joh 20:6 Then cometh Simon Peter following him, and went into the sepulchre, and seeth the linen clothes lie,
Joh 20:7 And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself.
Joh 20:8 Then went in also that other disciple, which came first to the sepulchre, and he saw, and believed.
Joh 20:9 For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead.
Joh 20:10 Then the disciples went away again unto their own home.Joh 20:11 But Mary stood without at the sepulchre weeping: and as she wept, she stooped down, and looked into the sepulchre,
Joh 20:12 And seeth two angels in white sitting, the one at the head, and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain.Mat 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
Mat 28:2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.
Mat 28:3 His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:
Mat 28:4 And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men.
Mat 28:5 And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified.
Mat 28:6 He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.
Mat 28:7 And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and, behold, he goeth before you into Galilee; there shall ye see him: lo, I have told you.
Mat 28:8 And they departed quickly from the sepulchre with fear and great joy; and did run to bring his disciples word.
Mat 28:9 And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.Early Sunday morning Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James, along with Salome, Joanna, and other women, bring spices to the tomb to treat Jesus’ body. En route they say to one another: “Who will roll the stone away from the door of the memorial tomb for us?” But on arriving, they find that an earthquake has occurred and God's angel has rolled the stone away. The guards are gone, and the tomb is empty.
WHEN the women find Jesus’ tomb empty, Mary Magdalene runs off to tell Peter and John. However, the other women evidently remain at the tomb. Soon, an angel appears and invites them inside.
Yes, that's why so many Mary's. The authors could confuse the issue that way. But Mark has Mary Magdalene AND Mary the mother of James and John entering the tomb and hearing from the angel. Thus, she already knows, according to Mark, what has happened to Jesus.
——–
Mar 16:1 When the Sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James and Salome bought spices, so that they might go and anoint him.
Mar 16:2 And very early on the first day of the week, when the sun had risen, they went to the tomb.
Mar 16:3 And they were saying to one another, “Who will roll away the stone for us from the entrance of the tomb?”
Mar 16:4 And looking up, they saw that the stone had been rolled back–it was very large.
Mar 16:5 And entering the tomb, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, dressed in a white robe, and they were alarmed.
Mar 16:6 And he said to them, “Do not be alarmed. You seek Jesus of Nazareth, who was crucified. He has risen; he is not here. See the place where they laid him.
Mar 16:7 But go, tell his disciples and Peter that he is going before you to Galilee. There you will see him, just as he told you.”
——–
Yet in John's account she goes back to the disciples and says thisJoh 20:2 So she ran and went to Simon Peter and the other disciple, the one whom Jesus loved, and said to them, “They have taken the Lord out of the tomb, and we do not know where they have laid him.”
Why would she say this if the angel told her in mark that he had risen? No overlap here david, contradiction.
Quote Here the women see yet another angel, and one of the angels says to them: “Do not you be fearful, for I know you are looking for Jesus who was impaled. He is not here, for he was raised up, as he said. Come, see the place where he was lying. And go quickly and tell his disciples that he was raised up from the dead.” So with fear and great joy, these women also run off. By this time, Mary has found Peter and John, and she reports to them: “They have taken away the Lord out of the memorial tomb, and we do not know where they have laid him.” Immediately the two apostles take off running. John is fleeter of foot—evidently being younger—and he reaches the tomb first. By this time the women have left, so no one is around. Stooping down, John peers into the tomb and sees the bandages, but he remains outside.
When Peter arrives, he does not hesitate but goes right on in. He sees the bandages lying there and also the cloth used to wrap Jesus’ head. It is rolled up in one place. John now also enters the tomb, and he believes Mary’s report. But neither Peter nor John grasps that Jesus has been raised up, even though He had often told them that He would be. Puzzled, the two return home, but Mary, who has come back to the tomb, remains.
In the meantime, the other women are hurrying to tell the disciples that Jesus has been resurrected, as the angels commanded them to do.
Luke was the best gospel writer of the bunch. Both his crucifixion and resurrection accounts had no names. He was the smartest of the bunch. if only he hadn't messed up the genealogy, his gospel would have been the one to pick to leave in the Christian bible.Quote (david @ Oct. 25 2007,18:37) Towshab, you stated: Quote Mat 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
Mat 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.Wait, its been almost 2000 years since Jesus said this. Which one of the people he spoke to here is still alive? Failed prophecy, false prophet. I guess the next avenue would be to speak of a symbolic death, such as the final death, but that doesn't fly.
However, the context of this verse, as well as that of the parallel accounts by Mark and Luke, helps us understand the real meaning of the scripture. What did Matthew relate right after the words quoted above? He wrote:
“Six days later Jesus took Peter and James and John his brother along and brought them up into a lofty mountain by themselves. And he was transfigured before them.” (Matthew 17:1, 2)
Nice try but no donut for you
. The meaning was the verse prior to it. But nice apologetic twist. It will work for the Christians who just need to believe because they fear going to hell.Quote Both Mark and Luke also linked Jesus’ comment about the Kingdom with the account of the transfiguration. (Mark 9:1-8; Luke 9:27-36)
No angels. The writers forgot the angels.Quote Jesus’ coming in Kingdom power was demonstrated in his transfiguration, his appearing in glory in the presence of the three apostles. Peter verifies this understanding by speaking of “the power and presence of our Lord Jesus Christ” with regard to his witnessing Jesus’ transfiguration.—2 Peter 1:16-18. I think it's better to let the Bible be it's own interpreter. Context is important.
Or you could read into the Christian bible your tightly held belief to derive the meaning, which you have done.Quote The transfiguration:
“As [Jesus] was praying the appearance of his face became different and his apparel became glitteringly white. Also, look! two men were conversing with him, who were Moses and Elijah. These appeared with glory and began talking about his departure that he was destined to fulfill at Jerusalem.” Then, “a cloud formed and began to overshadow [the apostles]. As they entered into the cloud, they became fearful. And a voice came out of the cloud, saying: ‘This is my Son, the one that has been chosen. Listen to him.’”—Luke 9:29-31, 34, 35.
A see no kingdom there. Is the kingdom 2 Jewish prophets and Jesus? Small kingdom.Quote Jehovah’s words from heaven confirmed that identification, and the vision of Jesus transfigured was a foretaste of Christ’s coming in Kingdom power and glory, eventually to judge mankind. More than 30 years after the transfiguration, Peter wrote: “It was not by following artfully contrived false stories that we acquainted you with the power and presence of our Lord Jesus Christ, but it was by having become eyewitnesses of his magnificence. For he received from God the Father honor and glory, when words such as these were borne to him by the magnificent glory: ‘This is my son, my beloved, whom I myself have approved.’ Yes, these words we heard borne from heaven while we were with him in the holy mountain.”—2 Peter 1:16-18; 1 Peter 4:17. Yes, the transfiguration was to Peter the fulfillment of Jesus’ promise that some of his disciples would not taste death until they had first seen the Son of man in his kingly power.
If that explanation makes you sleep better, cling to it. It is unfulfilled prophecy. Why else do we see that Paul constantly spoke of Jesus coming back soon? He expected it ferverently.Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 24 2007,23:28) Quote (Towshab @ Oct. 25 2007,14:56)
The new covenant does not exist. This 'new covenant' was never made bu the God of Israel, it was a human contract between the apostate Paul and his roman cohorts.Towshab,
Your name stands for something, doesn't it? I have seen what it stands for, and this is told to you so that you will know I have heard from God.I believe you are a liar! Sent here to “bash without truth”. I don't usually make these types of accusations, in fact, some have teased me for being the politically correct one around here. But I feel that the Lord has given me a word of knowledge concerning you. And you are here soley to spread lies!
Beware brother's and sister's! This person is not of the Lord and in fact, he has never belonged to the Lord. He is here on a mission……
Hey Not3,I must apologize because I am responsible for towshab being here in some way. I did not know who he was until the meaning of the word “towshab” was revealed, and then it rang a bell.
I “met” towshab on another board related to Torah study. I had read some of his posts about his background so I contacted him and exhanged a few emails. He was not quite so “forward” on the Torah board but I guess it was because he was on a board with mostly Hebrew people. In our emails we had talked about different sites we used and I happened to list this one and a few others. I checked and he has been on the other board as well, although I haven't been on the board for a while
BTW, his username is not “towshab” on the Torah board so that is why I did not recognize him right off, but it is something related to being a Gentile among Jews. That is why the clue about the meaning of “towshab” rang a bell.
I have contacted him and asked him to back off. Hopefully he will do so.
I apologize. I did not realize that this would be the result of our conversations.
LG&LP,
KevinQuote (Towshab @ Oct. 26 2007,00:41) Quote (david @ Oct. 25 2007,18:37) Towshab, you stated: Quote Mat 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
Mat 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.Wait, its been almost 2000 years since Jesus said this. Which one of the people he spoke to here is still alive? Failed prophecy, false prophet. I guess the next avenue would be to speak of a symbolic death, such as the final death, but that doesn't fly.
However, the context of this verse, as well as that of the parallel accounts by Mark and Luke, helps us understand the real meaning of the scripture. What did Matthew relate right after the words quoted above? He wrote:
“Six days later Jesus took Peter and James and John his brother along and brought them up into a lofty mountain by themselves. And he was transfigured before them.” (Matthew 17:1, 2)
Nice try but no donut for you. The meaning was the verse prior to it. But nice apologetic twist. It will work for the Christians who just need to believe because they fear going to hell.Quote Both Mark and Luke also linked Jesus’ comment about the Kingdom with the account of the transfiguration. (Mark 9:1-8; Luke 9:27-36)
No angels. The writers forgot the angels.Quote Jesus’ coming in Kingdom power was demonstrated in his transfiguration, his appearing in glory in the presence of the three apostles. Peter verifies this understanding by speaking of “the power and presence of our Lord Jesus Christ” with regard to his witnessing Jesus’ transfiguration.—2 Peter 1:16-18. I think it's better to let the Bible be it's own interpreter. Context is important.
Or you could read into the Christian bible your tightly held belief to derive the meaning, which you have done.Quote The transfiguration:
“As [Jesus] was praying the appearance of his face became different and his apparel became glitteringly white. Also, look! two men were conversing with him, who were Moses and Elijah. These appeared with glory and began talking about his departure that he was destined to fulfill at Jerusalem.” Then, “a cloud formed and began to overshadow [the apostles]. As they entered into the cloud, they became fearful. And a voice came out of the cloud, saying: ‘This is my Son, the one that has been chosen. Listen to him.’”—Luke 9:29-31, 34, 35.
A see no kingdom there. Is the kingdom 2 Jewish prophets and Jesus? Small kingdom.Quote Jehovah’s words from heaven confirmed that identification, and the vision of Jesus transfigured was a foretaste of Christ’s coming in Kingdom power and glory, eventually to judge mankind. More than 30 years after the transfiguration, Peter wrote: “It was not by following artfully contrived false stories that we acquainted you with the power and presence of our Lord Jesus Christ, but it was by having become eyewitnesses of his magnificence. For he received from God the Father honor and glory, when words such as these were borne to him by the magnificent glory: ‘This is my son, my beloved, whom I myself have approved.’ Yes, these words we heard borne from heaven while we were with him in the holy mountain.”—2 Peter 1:16-18; 1 Peter 4:17. Yes, the transfiguration was to Peter the fulfillment of Jesus’ promise that some of his disciples would not taste death until they had first seen the Son of man in his kingly power.
If that explanation makes you sleep better, cling to it. It is unfulfilled prophecy. Why else do we see that Paul constantly spoke of Jesus coming back soon? He expected it ferverently.
I suggest you give your heart to Jesus and find out what the truth is. Receive the Holy Spirit and have your eyes opened.You don't have to submit to your demon. It's never too late.
I proud of “US” we have earned a direct Attack of Satan. Although a LOW rank demon I'm sure their will be more as we continue to knock on TRUTH'S door. And spread the truth we have.
Satan is P Oed! Somehow we have made a dent in His demonic kingdom. Some of his recruits have changed their mind and have come to the light that we hold~JESUS~!
I believe Mandy is correct!
We should take every thought captive to the obedience of Christ!
IS this New? Please, we see on TV the lies: Jesus was Married to Mary and had a daughter! They found Jesus' bones! We who have the Spirit of God KNOW we are led by the Spirit and we are to learn as the Spirit teaches.
We have allowed an atheist to spread his garbage. Why not a “double” agent
Our armour will not let (if we keep it on) any darts to penetrate.
Very perceptive of you Sis! God bless you!
Ken
Quote (kenrch @ Oct. 25 2007,09:43) I suggest you give your heart to Jesus and find out what the truth is. Receive the Holy Spirit and have your eyes opened. You don't have to submit to your demon. It's never too late.
I proud of “US” we have earned a direct Attack of Satan. Although a LOW rank demon I'm sure their will be more as we continue to knock on TRUTH'S door. And spread the truth we have.
Satan is P Oed! Somehow we have made a dent in His demonic kingdom. Some of his recruits have changed their mind and have come to the light that we hold~JESUS~!
I believe Mandy is correct!
We should take every thought captive to the obedience of Christ!
IS this New? Please, we see on TV the lies: Jesus was Married to Mary and had a daughter! They found Jesus' bones! We who have the Spirit of God KNOW we are led by the Spirit and we are to learn as the Spirit teaches.
We have allowed an atheist to spread his garbage. Why not a “double” agent
Our armour will not let (if we keep it on) any darts to penetrate.
Very perceptive of you Sis! God bless you!
Ken
Ken,This is the kind of response that will bring him back. Most Jewish people do not believe in demons, much less demon possession. Since towshab is considering converting to Judaism, he will likely have the same view of demons.
If you will check out Christadelphians, they share the same belief of demons that most Jewish people do. I'm not 100% sure, but biblical unitarians don't believe in actual demons either.
One may say “how” when demons were shown in the synoptic Gospels, but I know Christadelphians feel it was due to superstition. The Jews had been amongst the pagan religions for a few generations, and some of their superstition had rubbed off. The people in the area may very well have blamed “spirits” for the various diseases.
Have you noticed that there are no demons mentioned in the Gospel of John?
I can tell you that demonology IS foreign to the Tanach.
So be careful with slinging around the idea of demon possession because it may come back to bite you.
Quote (kejonn @ Oct. 26 2007,03:04) Quote (kenrch @ Oct. 25 2007,09:43) I suggest you give your heart to Jesus and find out what the truth is. Receive the Holy Spirit and have your eyes opened. You don't have to submit to your demon. It's never too late.
I proud of “US” we have earned a direct Attack of Satan. Although a LOW rank demon I'm sure their will be more as we continue to knock on TRUTH'S door. And spread the truth we have.
Satan is P Oed! Somehow we have made a dent in His demonic kingdom. Some of his recruits have changed their mind and have come to the light that we hold~JESUS~!
I believe Mandy is correct!
We should take every thought captive to the obedience of Christ!
IS this New? Please, we see on TV the lies: Jesus was Married to Mary and had a daughter! They found Jesus' bones! We who have the Spirit of God KNOW we are led by the Spirit and we are to learn as the Spirit teaches.
We have allowed an atheist to spread his garbage. Why not a “double” agent
Our armour will not let (if we keep it on) any darts to penetrate.
Very perceptive of you Sis! God bless you!
Ken
Ken,This is the kind of response that will bring him back. Most Jewish people do not believe in demons, much less demon possession. Since towshab is considering converting to Judaism, he will likely have the same view of demons.
If you will check out Christadelphians, they share the same belief of demons that most Jewish people do. I'm not 100% sure, but biblical unitarians don't believe in actual demons either.
One may say “how” when demons were shown in the synoptic Gospels, but I know Christadelphians feel it was due to superstition. The Jews had been amongst the pagan religions for a few generations, and some of their superstition had rubbed off. The people in the area may very well have blamed “spirits” for the various diseases.
Have you noticed that there are no demons mentioned in the Gospel of John?
I can tell you that demonology IS foreign to the Tanach.
So be careful with slinging around the idea of demon possession because it may come back to bite you.
Did not Jesus cast out “demons”? Is that NOT part of the gospel? You believe the gospel?Make no mistake they are those who are O-pressed by demons always whispering in their ear.
God allows all things as He did with Job. Perhaps this person is here to temp the faithful. We all go through test and trials.
Hmm did I offend you kejonn by mentioning demons?
As far as my being careful the only way to be careful in this war is to deny the very God you serve. I'll believe Jesus has won and the victory is ours who believe! How about you?
God help and bless you kejonn,
Ken
Ken,
You did not offend me, but I asked towshab to not post here anymore. HE may take offense to it and ignore my request. Believe me, he seems to be very knowledgable of scripture, both New Testament and Tanach, so I wouldn't goad him too much.
Quote (kejonn @ Oct. 26 2007,04:02) Ken, You did not offend me, but I asked towshab to not post here anymore. HE may take offense to it and ignore my request. Believe me, he seems to be very knowledgable of scripture, both New Testament and Tanach, so I wouldn't goad him too much.
OH I'm sure he knows the scriptures better than most (especially me; although twisted) on this site. What did Satan use to attack Jesus? Was it not the very word of God?Sounds like you are scared of what he has to say. I can understand your concern BUT as I said God allows everything. Satan does nothing to God's children unless God allows it. Are we children of God~wheat and not weeds~can we stand against a simple test?
Resist the devil and he will flee. So the children of God will do just that ignore his lies while those who are not led by the Spirit will give him an ear.
Whatever the Lord wills,
Ken
Quote (kenrch @ Oct. 25 2007,11:13) Quote (kejonn @ Oct. 26 2007,04:02) Ken, You did not offend me, but I asked towshab to not post here anymore. HE may take offense to it and ignore my request. Believe me, he seems to be very knowledgable of scripture, both New Testament and Tanach, so I wouldn't goad him too much.
OH I'm sure he knows the scriptures better than most (especially me; although twisted) on this site. What did Satan use to attack Jesus? Was it not the very word of God?Sounds like you are scared of what he has to say. I can understand your concern BUT as I said God allows everything. Satan does nothing to God's children unless God allows it. Are we children of God~wheat and not weeds~can we stand against a simple test?
Resist the devil and he will flee. So the children of God will do just that ignore his lies while those who are not led by the Spirit will give him an ear.
Whatever the Lord wills,
Ken
Ken, I am not scared, I have already seen it all. I've read much more as well. But it seems others here do not like it so I'd rather he not be here. He has other places he can go and debate. But if you prefer, I can tell him to ignore my last email, and have at it. You won't be making friends with other people on this board by asking him to continue, but if you are ready to debate him, go ahead.Quote (kejonn @ Oct. 26 2007,04:35) Quote (kenrch @ Oct. 25 2007,11:13) Quote (kejonn @ Oct. 26 2007,04:02) Ken, You did not offend me, but I asked towshab to not post here anymore. HE may take offense to it and ignore my request. Believe me, he seems to be very knowledgable of scripture, both New Testament and Tanach, so I wouldn't goad him too much.
OH I'm sure he knows the scriptures better than most (especially me; although twisted) on this site. What did Satan use to attack Jesus? Was it not the very word of God?Sounds like you are scared of what he has to say. I can understand your concern BUT as I said God allows everything. Satan does nothing to God's children unless God allows it. Are we children of God~wheat and not weeds~can we stand against a simple test?
Resist the devil and he will flee. So the children of God will do just that ignore his lies while those who are not led by the Spirit will give him an ear.
Whatever the Lord wills,
Ken
Ken, I am not scared, I have already seen it all. I've read much more as well. But it seems others here do not like it so I'd rather he not be here. He has other places he can go and debate. But if you prefer, I can tell him to ignore my last email, and have at it. You won't be making friends with other people on this board by asking him to continue, but if you are ready to debate him, go ahead.
kejonn,AS I said God allows His children to be tested. If the LORD wills him to be an instrument He will use to test His children then I say God's will be done and not mans.
I for one will not give him an ear. Obviously you have. Resist the devil and he will flee. God used Pharaoh. God uses who He wants as tools for the growth of His true children. The weeds will be pulled up and burned.
Why is it alright for an atheist to spread his garbage but not this one. It's the same garbage but with a different twist. Perhaps a better TEST.
God's will be done! Not mine!
Ken
Quote (kejonn @ Oct. 26 2007,04:02) Ken, You did not offend me, but I asked towshab to not post here anymore. HE may take offense to it and ignore my request. Believe me, he seems to be very knowledgable of scripture, both New Testament and Tanach, so I wouldn't goad him too much.
Hey Kevin,Satan and his demons are also very knowledgable of scripture. They know what their fate is. The demons begged Jesus not to torture them before their time. They know what the score is, and they know their inning is almost over.
Demons are very real. If you've ever spoken to one, you would be a believer. These things can not be conjured up or faked – they are real. There is a dark side and a light side. This is not hollywood, this is the world we live in, and the world that we are to overcome.
No apology necessary for telling this stranger to the Lord about our site. There will be many who will try to lead folks astray and spread lies. We must be aware and alert to their ploys (like being excellent debater's – drawing us in).
Nevertheless, he is a stranger among us, and he has never known the Lord even though he says he has. He is a liar and is spreading falsehood. He is here to plant seeds of doubt and fear. Those who engage him should be cautioned that they are throwing their pearls away……..
James 1:6-8
….But when he asks, he must believe and not doubt, because he who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind.That man should not think he will receive anything from the Lord; he is a double-minded man, unstable in all he does.
Holy Father, in Jesus name, I ask that the plans of the enemy be frustrated and brought to nothing. Cover my brother's and sister's with the precious blood of the Lamb. Keep us safe in your care and free from doubt. Instead, encourage us with your written Word and the living Word! We praise you for you are our Creator, and loving heavenly Father. Amen.
Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 26 2007,05:07) Quote (kejonn @ Oct. 26 2007,04:02) Ken, You did not offend me, but I asked towshab to not post here anymore. HE may take offense to it and ignore my request. Believe me, he seems to be very knowledgable of scripture, both New Testament and Tanach, so I wouldn't goad him too much.
Hey Kevin,Satan and his demons are also very knowledgable of scripture. They know what their fate is. The demons begged Jesus not to torture them before their time. They know what the score is, and they know their inning is almost over.
Demons are very real. If you've ever spoken to one, you would be a believer. These things can not be conjured up or faked – they are real. There is a dark side and a light side. This is not hollywood, this is the world we live in, and the world that we are to overcome.
No apology necessary for telling this stranger to the Lord about our site. There will be many who will try to lead folks astray and spread lies. We must be aware and alert to their ploys (like being excellent debater's – drawing us in).
Nevertheless, he is a stranger among us, and he has never known the Lord even though he says he has. He is a liar and is spreading falsehood. He is here to plant seeds of doubt and fear. Those who engage him should be cautioned that they are throwing their pearls away……..
James 1:6-8
….But when he asks, he must believe and not doubt, because he who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind.That man should not think he will receive anything from the Lord; he is a double-minded man, unstable in all he does.
Holy Father, in Jesus name, I ask that the plans of the enemy be frustrated and brought to nothing. Cover my brother's and sister's with the precious blood of the Lamb. Keep us safe in your care and free from doubt. Instead, encourage us with your written Word and the living Word! We praise you for you are our Creator, and loving heavenly Father. Amen.
AMEN!Quote (kenrch @ Oct. 26 2007,04:51) Why is it alright for an atheist to spread his garbage but not this one. It's the same garbage but with a different twist. Perhaps a better TEST.
I believe that the Lord sees our hearts and judges even our secrets. He knows our motives and whether we are enemies of God, or truth seekers. I believe this is the difference between Stu and this stranger among us. One is a truth seeker, the other is an enemy! I do not use these words lightly, but I am speaking as one who has heard from the Lord on this. Those who will accept this warning will use great judgement and caution in dealing with this stranger. Those who blow it off are in danger of losing what they have gained.Again, I do not say these things lightly. I cannot know another man's heart, however God knows all hearts and he speaks to his children by revelation – even today! Praise Him!
Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 26 2007,05:26) Quote (kenrch @ Oct. 26 2007,04:51) Why is it alright for an atheist to spread his garbage but not this one. It's the same garbage but with a different twist. Perhaps a better TEST.
I believe that the Lord sees our hearts and judges even our secrets. He knows our motives and whether we are enemies of God, or truth seekers. I believe this is the difference between Stu and this stranger among us. One is a truth seeker, the other is an enemy! I do not use these words lightly, but I am speaking as one who has heard from the Lord on this. Those who will accept this warning will use great judgement and caution in dealing with this stranger. Those who blow it off are in danger of losing what they have gained.Again, I do not say these things lightly. I cannot know another man's heart, however God knows all hearts and he speaks to his children by revelation – even today! Praise Him!
AMEN! AGAIN!Quote (kejonn @ Oct. 26 2007,02:15) Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 24 2007,23:28) Quote (Towshab @ Oct. 25 2007,14:56)
The new covenant does not exist. This 'new covenant' was never made bu the God of Israel, it was a human contract between the apostate Paul and his roman cohorts.Towshab,
Your name stands for something, doesn't it? I have seen what it stands for, and this is told to you so that you will know I have heard from God.I believe you are a liar! Sent here to “bash without truth”. I don't usually make these types of accusations, in fact, some have teased me for being the politically correct one around here. But I feel that the Lord has given me a word of knowledge concerning you. And you are here soley to spread lies!
Beware brother's and sister's! This person is not of the Lord and in fact, he has never belonged to the Lord. He is here on a mission……
Hey Not3,I must apologize because I am responsible for towshab being here in some way. I did not know who he was until the meaning of the word “towshab” was revealed, and then it rang a bell.
I “met” towshab on another board related to Torah study. I had read some of his posts about his background so I contacted him and exhanged a few emails. He was not quite so “forward” on the Torah board but I guess it was because he was on a board with mostly Hebrew people. In our emails we had talked about different sites we used and I happened to list this one and a few others. I checked and he has been on the other board as well, although I haven't been on the board for a while
BTW, his username is not “towshab” on the Torah board so that is why I did not recognize him right off, but it is something related to being a Gentile among Jews. That is why the clue about the meaning of “towshab” rang a bell.
I have contacted him and asked him to back off. Hopefully he will do so.
I apologize. I did not realize that this would be the result of our conversations.
LG&LP,
Kevin
Hi KJ:There is no need to appologize. Perhaps through his posts this will help us to gain more knowledge. If he raises some point that we need to ask God for understanding, that is a good thing.
Quote James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. 6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. As I told Towshab if he had been born again, he would know the truth and could never be convinced otherwise.
Quote Matt.24:24
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.How can someone who has the Spirit of God dwelling within ever be drawn away from the truth?
Let's join hands in prayer.
God Bless
Quote (kejonn @ Oct. 26 2007,04:35) Quote (kenrch @ Oct. 25 2007,11:13) Quote (kejonn @ Oct. 26 2007,04:02) Ken, You did not offend me, but I asked towshab to not post here anymore. HE may take offense to it and ignore my request. Believe me, he seems to be very knowledgable of scripture, both New Testament and Tanach, so I wouldn't goad him too much.
OH I'm sure he knows the scriptures better than most (especially me; although twisted) on this site. What did Satan use to attack Jesus? Was it not the very word of God?Sounds like you are scared of what he has to say. I can understand your concern BUT as I said God allows everything. Satan does nothing to God's children unless God allows it. Are we children of God~wheat and not weeds~can we stand against a simple test?
Resist the devil and he will flee. So the children of God will do just that ignore his lies while those who are not led by the Spirit will give him an ear.
Whatever the Lord wills,
Ken
Ken, I am not scared, I have already seen it all. I've read much more as well. But it seems others here do not like it so I'd rather he not be here. He has other places he can go and debate. But if you prefer, I can tell him to ignore my last email, and have at it. You won't be making friends with other people on this board by asking him to continue, but if you are ready to debate him, go ahead.
kejonnI understand what you are saying ,but if people are barred from this sight because they dont believe in the NT or the Messiah then where would we draw the line?
So many here think (
) Trinitarianism is heretical and I have even been accused of being a minister of satan, yet I am allowed to speak my peace.Unless this guy becomes mean spirited and seeks to hurt someone buy throwing nasty accusations and words then I see no problem with him being here. It may be good for our faith to be challenged by an unbeliever.
Anyway, this is not my sight and I cant speak for t8 and others, but from what I have seen he is very tolorant for those who come here that speak against what he believes to be the truth. I am a prime example of it. I am sure many times he has wished that I would go away, and he has the power to make that happen. So I respect him for that.
Its seems this forum is open to all kinds of religious views to express themselves as long as there is courtesy and respect and friendly and yet stern and strong opinions and dialogue and this I think is a tribute to t8 and his willingness to learn!
Cant believe I said that?
This is just MHO!
Keith
Hello forum,
I do apologize if I've come off as offensive. That is not my intention. I have had some people trying to evangelize me and they actually got testy with me when I would not turn back to Christianity. So I came in here with an over zealous attitude it seems.
To the guy who thinks I've demon possessed, I can only laugh. I have encountered people like you before and it was one of several reasons I started to question Christianity. There are many more things though. The rest is history.
As Kevin told you, I hear of this forum through him. He said it was a place he hung out and that you people where big into seeking the truth of religions. He did say Christianity though, not religions, I added that part
.I look at it this way – if you are strong in your faith and know you have truth, my words should not bother you. I could not say the same. To the other people who said I never was 'saved' to begin with, perhaps not. Not in the Christian way but I don't believe in that anyway. Nowhere in Jewish scripture do I find the idea that G-d said I must trust in another man to have salvation. G-d told us many times in His Bible that He was the only savior.
That is where a big contradiction comes in for the Christian bible. All throughout the Jewish Bible, G-d says He is the only savior, that there is no other. Then along comes Jesus and people call him the savior. How did G-d change? Thus now Christians have to either say Jesus is G-d (idol worship) or that G-d lied in the Jewish Bible. If the Jewish Bible is false, Christianity is false, because Christianity is based on Judaism (or was). You can't have it any other way.
Again sorry for the bad impression. I simply believe that Christianity is flawed in that it is idol worship. That is an abomination to G-d, something that constantly led many of the Israelites away from G-d. He detests idol worship.
Quote (Towshab @ Oct. 26 2007,12:36) Hello forum, I do apologize if I've come off as offensive. That is not my intention. I have had some people trying to evangelize me and they actually got testy with me when I would not turn back to Christianity. So I came in here with an over zealous attitude it seems.
To the guy who thinks I've demon possessed, I can only laugh. I have encountered people like you before and it was one of several reasons I started to question Christianity. There are many more things though. The rest is history.
As Kevin told you, I hear of this forum through him. He said it was a place he hung out and that you people where big into seeking the truth of religions. He did say Christianity though, not religions, I added that part
.I look at it this way – if you are strong in your faith and know you have truth, my words should not bother you. I could not say the same. To the other people who said I never was 'saved' to begin with, perhaps not. Not in the Christian way but I don't believe in that anyway. Nowhere in Jewish scripture do I find the idea that G-d said I must trust in another man to have salvation. G-d told us many times in His Bible that He was the only savior.
That is where a big contradiction comes in for the Christian bible. All throughout the Jewish Bible, G-d says He is the only savior, that there is no other. Then along comes Jesus and people call him the savior. How did G-d change? Thus now Christians have to either say Jesus is G-d (idol worship) or that G-d lied in the Jewish Bible. If the Jewish Bible is false, Christianity is false, because Christianity is based on Judaism (or was). You can't have it any other way.
Again sorry for the bad impression. I simply believe that Christianity is flawed in that it is idol worship. That is an abomination to G-d, something that constantly led many of the Israelites away from G-d. He detests idol worship.
Hi Towshab:As for me, I accept your appology and welcome the opportunity to discuss the scriptures with you. If I don't immediately have the answer to one of your questions, I know that I can pray to God for understanding, and I will give you my answer when God answers my prayer.
I have done the work of an evangelist on the street for 13 years, but I have never forced anyone to listen to what I have to say. My commision from the Lord is to go into all of the world and share the gospel (which is good news) with whomever will listen. If I know the gospel is the truth and If I do not offer to share it, then I do not love you, but if I offer to share and you do not want to hear then my obligation to you or that person that does not want to hear has been fulfilled except to pray that God would do everything within His power to open your eyes to the truth.
Again, I accept your appology, but actually, you have not offended me in any way.
God Bless
Towshab states:
Quote That is where a big contradiction comes in for the Christian bible. All throughout the Jewish Bible, G-d says He is the only savior, that there is no other. Then along comes Jesus and people call him the savior. How did G-d change? Right. God is the only savior. Without him, there could be no salvation. We owe everything to him. But what if he decided to save us “through” his son. He would still be our savior. Yet, we could also call the son a savior to us, could we not?
Jude 25 shows the relationship, saying:
“GOD, OUR SAVIOR THROUGH JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD.”
(See also acts 13:23)Let's look at the Hebrew scriptures for a moment and consider whether this is a contradiction:
At Judges 3:9, the same Hebrew word (moh·shi′a‛, rendered “savior” or “deliverer”) that is used at Isaiah 43:11 is applied to Othniel, a judge in Israel, but that certainly did not make Othniel Jehovah, did it?((If it is not a contradiction here, in the Hebrew scriptures,then it is not a contradiction if Jesus is also called a savior, especially if he is a savior “through” Jehovah.))
Back to the context of the Is 43:11 which says: “Besides me there is no savior.”
A reading of Isaiah 43:1-12 shows that verse 11 means that Jehovah alone was the One who provided salvation, or deliverance, for Israel; that salvation did not come from any of the gods of the surrounding nations.This is no contradiction. Most of what Towshab has shown are things he has clearly wanted to be contradictions.
david
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