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Quote (Not3in1 @ Nov. 21 2007,12:02) Quote (Towshab @ Nov. 21 2007,23:27) I don't need a middleman to get to YHVH.
Why not?
Because G-d is there for us without someone to go through. Its always been that way.Quote (david @ Nov. 21 2007,16:27) Quote I believe in angels. 'Satan' means 'adversary'. Even King David was called a 'satan' one time.
Right, and the word “angel” is the exact same word as “messenger” and Adam as man. Before, you hinted at the idea that you don't believe adam was an actual individual. I take it you believe the whole genesis account is therefore an allegory, is that what you believe?
Because it seems to me that the Bible account presents Adam as a historical person. It gives us the names of his wife and some of his children. It tells us in detail what he did, what he said, when he lived, and when he died.
Adam may have been the name of the first person whose name had been passed down. There may have been people before him who knows.Quote Adam may have been the name of the first person whose name had been passed down. There may have been people before him who knows. God does. Luckily he told us. You truly are a “stranger” and enemy of the Bible.
Taken from the 3 days thread
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 23 2007,15:30) Quote (Towshab @ Nov. 24 2007,08:17) Ah typical Christians arguing over things that should be simple. But since the GT writers did such a poor job of writing since none of them actually witnessed the events what would you expect?
TowBut of course the Jews also agree in everything, in fact many believe Yeshua is the Messiah and many dont.
More like some do but most don't. The same could be said of the rest of the peoples of the world but as a whole more Jews do not acknowledge Jesus as Messiah than others.
Quote So your pompous attitude here only makes you out to be just one of the unbelievers seasoned with a litte foolishness. Yes it is typically the Christian route to start insulting rather than backing your statements up with anything of substance.
Quote You know Yeshua hasnt given up on the unbelieving Jews, he still Loves them very much. He loves them just as much as any other dead person call love.
Quote You might as well repent and believe now for sooner or later every knee shall bow. 
Wrong.Isa 45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
Isa 45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. {NOT JESUS!!!}
Isa 45:24 Surely, shall one say, in YHVH have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.
Isa 45:25 In YHVH shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory. {NOT JESUS!!!}Quote (david @ Nov. 23 2007,18:24) Quote Adam may have been the name of the first person whose name had been passed down. There may have been people before him who knows. God does. Luckily he told us. You truly are a “stranger” and enemy of the Bible.
If there was only Adam and Eve and then Cain and Abel, explain this:Gen 4:17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.
I await the typical apologetics.
Quote If there was only Adam and Eve and then Cain and Abel, explain this: Gen 4:17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.
I await the typical apologetics.
You have got to be kidding.
Are you kidding? Seriously? You're not serious, are you?
GENESIS 5:3-4
“And Adam lived on for a hundred and thirty years. Then he became father to a son in his likeness, in his image, and called his name Seth. And the days of Adam after his fathering Seth came to be eight hundred years. Meanwhile he became father to sons and daughters.”Quote (Towshab @ Nov. 24 2007,11:14) Quote (Not3in1 @ Nov. 21 2007,12:02) Quote (Towshab @ Nov. 21 2007,23:27) I don't need a middleman to get to YHVH.
Why not?
Because G-d is there for us without someone to go through. Its always been that way.
It's always been that way? HmmmmWhat about the common man entering the holy of holies? Were they allowed? Was everyone invited up on the mountain when Mo received the written word?
Quote (Not3in1 @ Nov. 23 2007,22:04) Quote (Towshab @ Nov. 24 2007,11:14) Quote (Not3in1 @ Nov. 21 2007,12:02) Quote (Towshab @ Nov. 21 2007,23:27) I don't need a middleman to get to YHVH.
Why not?
Because G-d is there for us without someone to go through. Its always been that way.
It's always been that way? HmmmmWhat about the common man entering the holy of holies? Were they allowed? Was everyone invited up on the mountain when Mo received the written word?
What does that have to do with prayer? We're not talking catholic priests here.Quote (david @ Nov. 23 2007,21:53) Quote If there was only Adam and Eve and then Cain and Abel, explain this: Gen 4:17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.
I await the typical apologetics.
You have got to be kidding.
Are you kidding? Seriously? You're not serious, are you?
GENESIS 5:3-4
“And Adam lived on for a hundred and thirty years. Then he became father to a son in his likeness, in his image, and called his name Seth. And the days of Adam after his fathering Seth came to be eight hundred years. Meanwhile he became father to sons and daughters.”
So Adam had more kids willing to hang out with someone who murdered their brother? Yes I'd want to do that. I think you are the one that is kidding.Quote (Towshab @ Nov. 24 2007,15:30) Quote (Not3in1 @ Nov. 23 2007,22:04) Quote (Towshab @ Nov. 24 2007,11:14) Quote (Not3in1 @ Nov. 21 2007,12:02) Quote (Towshab @ Nov. 21 2007,23:27) I don't need a middleman to get to YHVH.
Why not?
Because G-d is there for us without someone to go through. Its always been that way.
It's always been that way? HmmmmWhat about the common man entering the holy of holies? Were they allowed? Was everyone invited up on the mountain when Mo received the written word?
What does that have to do with prayer? We're not talking catholic priests here.
Because a “middleman” was needed to approach God and certainly to obtain forgiveness. Do you think folks prayed directly to God back then and heard from him on an individual basis? If so, why did they need Abe, Mo and the other dudes?Quote (Not3in1 @ Nov. 23 2007,23:16) Quote (Towshab @ Nov. 24 2007,15:30) Quote (Not3in1 @ Nov. 23 2007,22:04) Quote (Towshab @ Nov. 24 2007,11:14) Quote (Not3in1 @ Nov. 21 2007,12:02) Quote (Towshab @ Nov. 21 2007,23:27) I don't need a middleman to get to YHVH.
Why not?
Because G-d is there for us without someone to go through. Its always been that way.
It's always been that way? HmmmmWhat about the common man entering the holy of holies? Were they allowed? Was everyone invited up on the mountain when Mo received the written word?
What does that have to do with prayer? We're not talking catholic priests here.
Because a “middleman” was needed to approach God and certainly to obtain forgiveness. Do you think folks prayed directly to God back then and heard from him on an individual basis? If so, why did they need Abe, Mo and the other dudes?
To lead them.Quote (Towshab @ Nov. 24 2007,12:58) [/quote]
Taken from the 3 days thread
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 23 2007,15:30) Towshab,Nov. wrote:Ah typical Christians arguing over things that should be simple. But since the GT writers did such a poor job of writing since none of them actually witnessed the events what would you expect?
TowBut of course the Jews also agree in everything, in fact many believe Yeshua is the Messiah and many dont.
You say…
Quote
More like some do but most don't. The same could be said of the rest of the peoples of the world but as a whole more Jews do not acknowledge Jesus as Messiah than others.Point is that your faith is no different than Christians since there are Jews that disagree with you.
Why are you not somewhere trying to win some of your rejected brothers back rather than insulting the faith of those who believe in Yeshua as the Messiah?
Quote So your pompous attitude here only makes you out to be just one of the unbelievers seasoned with a litte foolishness. You say…
Quote
Yes it is typically the Christian route to start insulting rather than backing your statements up with anything of substance.
Accusing me of insulting you by using an insult. Your funny.You do know what pompous means dont you?
You say we are typically fighting over simple things. And thats not an insult?
Why didnt you jump in there with some substance, instead of insulting me by saying I have no substance!
Quote You know Yeshua hasnt given up on the unbelieving Jews, he still Loves them very much. You say…
Quote
He loves them just as much as any other dead person call love.Again, Jesus still Loves you!
Quote You might as well repent and believe now for sooner or later every knee shall bow. You say…
Quote
Wrong.Isa 45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
Isa 45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. {NOT JESUS!!!}
Isa 45:24 Surely, shall one say, in YHVH have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.
Isa 45:25 In YHVH shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory. {NOT JESUS!!!}Good. Thats a start.
But yes Jesus. For Yeshua has all power in heaven and earth at this time.
Phil 2:9
Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the FatherQuote (Towshab @ Nov. 24 2007,16:58) Quote (Not3in1 @ Nov. 23 2007,23:16) Quote (Towshab @ Nov. 24 2007,15:30) Quote (Not3in1 @ Nov. 23 2007,22:04) Quote (Towshab @ Nov. 24 2007,11:14) Quote (Not3in1 @ Nov. 21 2007,12:02) Quote (Towshab @ Nov. 21 2007,23:27) I don't need a middleman to get to YHVH.
Why not?
Because G-d is there for us without someone to go through. Its always been that way.
It's always been that way? HmmmmWhat about the common man entering the holy of holies? Were they allowed? Was everyone invited up on the mountain when Mo received the written word?
What does that have to do with prayer? We're not talking catholic priests here.
Because a “middleman” was needed to approach God and certainly to obtain forgiveness. Do you think folks prayed directly to God back then and heard from him on an individual basis? If so, why did they need Abe, Mo and the other dudes?
To lead them.
But if they were able to hear from the Almighty directly, they wouldn't have needed anyone to lead them! For instance, do we have anyone “leading” us today? Some have Jesus, but since you have denied him, who is leading you? If your answer is noone, then why? Why did the OT folks need a leader and you do not?Good point not3,
We do need a leader. The instution of marraige is a perfect example of headship, and that it is necessary. The husband is the head of the family, Messiah is the head of him, and YHWH is the head of the Messiah.Like me, I have no husband, so Messiah is my Head.
In “organized religion” there is a priest, bishop, pope etc. All these “heads” keep us far from YHWH. Scripture tells us that Y'shua IS the high priest. He IS our Mediator.
In organized business there are workers who have a lead-person, who has a supervisor, who has a manager, who has a boss. With all these heads, the comminucation gets misconstrued, and takes a long time for anything to get resolved.
YHWH's way is best. One Master for each family. That Master is Y'shua Messiah. Why? because many of us have not repented of our sin, we are like filthy rags to our Creator, who can not come near sin. But Y'shua the Redeemer sent by the Creator, makes it possible that our sin is no more seen. We can come before YHWH in white robes and have communion with Him because His Set-apart Spirit can now dwell in us. In this Way we become Elohim or in other words we become part of the Spiritual family of YHWH.
No we do not become “gods.” Elohim being all that His Set-apart Spirit encompasses!
Now you know the rest of the story.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 24 2007,00:00) Quote (Towshab @ Nov. 24 2007,12:58)
Taken from the 3 days thread
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 23 2007,15:30) Quote (Towshab @ Nov. 24 2007,08:17) Ah typical Christians arguing over things that should be simple. But since the GT writers did such a poor job of writing since none of them actually witnessed the events what would you expect?
TowBut of course the Jews also agree in everything, in fact many believe Yeshua is the Messiah and many dont.
You say…
Quote
More like some do but most don't. The same could be said of the rest of the peoples of the world but as a whole more Jews do not acknowledge Jesus as Messiah than others.Point is that your faith is no different than Christians since there are Jews that disagree with you.
Not all Christians agree with one another. So? Many Christians feel that if you do not feel Jesus is G-d you are lost. Others believe baptism is necessary for salvation. Still others feel you must speak in tongues or you don't have true salvation. The list can go on for pages.
Quote Why are you not somewhere trying to win some of your rejected brothers back rather than insulting the faith of those who believe in Yeshua as the Messiah? Aren't they the same? I am a former Christian not a Jew. I am a G-d fearing Gentile. I do this because I want others to see that YHVH alone is G-d and to worship Jesus is to worship idols. Idol worship was spoken against all throughout the Tanakh.
Quote Quote So your pompous attitude here only makes you out to be just one of the unbelievers seasoned with a litte foolishness. You say…
Quote
Yes it is typically the Christian route to start insulting rather than backing your statements up with anything of substance. Accusing me of insulting you by using an insult. Your funny.You do know what pompous means dont you?
Where was the insult in my statement? I didn't use an adjective to describe you. And pompous basically means that to think more of one's self than one should. To say someone is pompous is an insult. Do you know what 'insult' means?
Quote You say we are typically fighting over simple things. And thats not an insult? No. Maybe an insult to your bible but it is a work of fiction anyways.
Quote Why didnt you jump in there with some substance, instead of insulting me by saying I have no substance! I said you did not back up your statements with anything of substance. Big difference. Do need to write an essay to point that out?
Quote Quote You know Yeshua hasnt given up on the unbelieving Jews, he still Loves them very much. You say…
Quote
He loves them just as much as any other dead person call love.Again, Jesus still Loves you!
Does Elvis love me too?
Quote Quote You might as well repent and believe now for sooner or later every knee shall bow. You say…
Quote
Wrong.Isa 45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
Isa 45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. {NOT JESUS!!!}
Isa 45:24 Surely, shall one say, in YHVH have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.
Isa 45:25 In YHVH shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory. {NOT JESUS!!!}Good. Thats a start.
But yes Jesus. For Yeshua has all power in heaven and earth at this time.
Phil 2:9
Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father
Show me where G-d will give all of this to the Moshiach using the Tanakh. Again you cannot show prove of the GT's validity by using the GT. Remember the Harry Potter analogy?Quote (Not3in1 @ Nov. 24 2007,00:04) Quote (Towshab @ Nov. 24 2007,16:58)
To lead them.
But if they were able to hear from the Almighty directly, they wouldn't have needed anyone to lead them! For instance, do we have anyone “leading” us today? Some have Jesus, but since you have denied him, who is leading you? If your answer is noone, then why? Why did the OT folks need a leader and you do not?
You have all sorts of leaders. Priests, reverends, pastors, bishops, elders, deacons, etc. What are all of those people needed for?Moses was called upon to deliver YHVH's people from bondage. Nowhere do you find that people cannot pray directly to G-d in the Tanakh. Just read Psalms and you'll see the evidence of calling upon G-d personally.
READ Isaiah 7:14 and it will resolve the conflict about whether Jesus is the Messiah once and for all.
Quote (Towshab @ Nov. 25 2007,01:31) Moses was called upon to deliver YHVH's people from bondage.
Of course God also had other jobs for Mo to do for the people.He also was in charge of setting up the Tent and worship rules and regs. He was also in charge of appointing those who would receive and offer-up the sacrifices to the Almighty. All of this fuss for a people who could just chat with God themselves at their leisure? And if they were able to just have a chat with God, I'm sure they could have certainly asked for forgiveness – could they not? And if so, my! such fuss over blood and ceremony for no reason! Just think of all those poor animals that could have lived.
I'll read the scripture you provided.
Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Isa 7:15 Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.Luk 24:42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
Luk 24:43 And he took it, and did eat before them.
Luk 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
Luk 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
Luk 24:46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
Luk 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Luk 24:48 And ye are witnesses of these things.
Luk 24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.(and they did wait until Sukuot (Pentecost) until the promise of YHWH came upon them)
His Set-apart Spirit came upon the masses, whereas befor this only a select few were blessed with His Set-apart Spirit, because they understood and believed the Scriptures, and that Y'shua IS the Messiah.
Today you can go to Wal-Mart and pick up a copy of Scriptures for about five dollars! Back then only a select few could afford to buy the animal, the barrels of ink, and hire a scribe to obtain a copy of the Torah!!
Today we have no excuse! Literally or Spiritually to say we have not heard the Word of YHWH!!!
Y'shua prooves His Word is Truth because it was His works to do His Father's Word.
Quote (Not3in1 @ Nov. 24 2007,15:53) Quote (Towshab @ Nov. 25 2007,01:31) Moses was called upon to deliver YHVH's people from bondage.
Of course God also had other jobs for Mo to do for the people.He also was in charge of setting up the Tent and worship rules and regs. He was also in charge of appointing those who would receive and offer-up the sacrifices to the Almighty. All of this fuss for a people who could just chat with God themselves at their leisure? And if they were able to just have a chat with God, I'm sure they could have certainly asked for forgiveness – could they not? And if so, my! such fuss over blood and ceremony for no reason! Just think of all those poor animals that could have lived.
I'll read the scripture you provided.
N3in1,Do you need a preacher to reach G-d? Moses and the others were needed to deliver, to help organize, and to help move YHVH's people in the right direction. Otherwise they would be just like you see Christians, and even many Jews, today. That is, people doing many different things. So G-d, through Moses and Aaron, set up guidelines for worship and conduct for the children of Israel. They needed to how how YHVH was different from the other false idols of other peoples.
Yet any of these people could pray to YHVH at any time. They did not need Moses for that. The plain fact is that most people need to be led and Moses and many others after him have been provided to lead. Plus, without organization you have chaos.
As far as those 'poor animals' they were eaten. Just like you may eat meat today. So while they were sacrificed the meat was not thrown away. It became nourishment.
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