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Quote Yes, thank you for reminding me. I stand by what I have said. –Not3
What you said was: “I caution those who feed this fire. You avail nothing, but to only further puts his words of falsehood out there for more to stumble on.”
If you stand by these words, then you must believe that “you avail nothing” by speaking with him and “only further put his words of falsehood out there for more to stumble on.”
I know I am pushing this and it is nothing, but it always bothers me a little when someone claims to so strongly believe something and then changes their mind without an explanation to why. I will leave this alone.
Ok, thanks I made a post about not being able to edit a while ago.
I just now realized that another poster directed me to a thread that stated that privilege had been taken away due to abuse of it.
But did not refer me to a place where I might ask for this permission.
Obviously, I've not yet met the requirements for this privilege, or maybe its that you have to request it nonetheless…I did make a post in the Help Desk as you suggested.
I would like to think that Mr. Towshab has not come to intentionally deceive people. But I suppose that could be the case…like I said I really don't know that much about the person.
I would rather like to think that he just firmly believes in what he believes. Obviously, he has not yet accepted the messiah as the Saviour. But hey…its like this. The messages of Truth has been delivered to him since he has come here. At this point it is really not in our hands…it is up to GOD to deal with his heart. We are just the messengers…and the testament. All we can really do is Pray that GOD will have mercy on his soul and Show him that what we speak is the Truth.
Quote Obviously, I've not yet met the requirements for this privilege, or maybe its that you have to request it nonetheless…I did make a post in the Help Desk as you suggested. Post it in the “organizing this site” thread. T8 actually checks that one. It shouldn't be a problem.
Quote (david @ Nov. 19 2007,17:36) Quote Yes, thank you for reminding me. I stand by what I have said. –Not3
What you said was: “I caution those who feed this fire. You avail nothing, but to only further puts his words of falsehood out there for more to stumble on.”
If you stand by these words, then you must believe that “you avail nothing” by speaking with him and “only further put his words of falsehood out there for more to stumble on.”
I know I am pushing this and it is nothing, but it always bothers me a little when someone claims to so strongly believe something and then changes their mind without an explanation to why. I will leave this alone.
You crack me up, David.I knew you wouldn't “leave this alone”. I'm not surprised to come back and see that you have harped on this one last time to prove your point.
You really do have a problem with a competitive nature, don't you? Well, all I can say is I stand by what I have said. You may have not caught all of my posts with regards to Tow.
Also, it may bother you when folks do this (begin strongly with something then back down for whatever reasons), but you leave no room for folks to change at this rate. I wonder if you hold yourself to such strict rules and regs? Loosen up, bro!
Everyone is on their own path at their own speed.
Well then, if you stand by your words, what can I say, but your words:
“you avail nothing but to only further put his words of falsehood out there for more to stumble on” and “I caution those who feed this fire.”
dave
Now, step across this line ___.
I D Double Dare you.
I can't believe that we are quarreling among ourselves about
not responding to Tow.
Tow did ot do this, we do it to ourselves.Tim
Samuel,Nov. wrote:Quote It is patterned after pagan mythologies I can tell you brother the spirit that gets a hold of me and that is in me is not a Myth. What ever it is that you don't believe for whatever reason…I can be a living testament that the spirit of GOD the HOLY GHOST is not a myth…it is very much REAL. And
Quote it lives in me and sups with me. Is it sort of like that video clip I saw of the Brownsville Revival a few years ago where this woman would shake her head in a spastic-type fit? Not making fun but she said it was the 'holy spirit' making her do that too. Which 'spirit' is the right one?
Do you think that Martin Luther was a spirit-filled man? How about John Calvin?
Quote I would like to know one thing though…I think I already know…but I'd like you to confirm it. Are you trying to say that the messiah has not yet come at all? Or, are you just trying to say that the Christian of Jesus…the all famous catholic version of the English translation of the Messiah, in other words the image they made is not the real messiah. You do believe that there is a messiah that has come don't you? I mean you may not want to actually call him Jesus…but you do call him yeshua or Iesous? Jesus, Jenoshua, Yeshua, all the same person just different names. Yeshua is just a name invented by the messianic movement to make Jesus sound more Jewish to lure those Hebrew people who are weak in scripture.
Quote The following is copied from this site although it has a Oneness bias it is the quickest closest thing I could find to come close to describing why you believe the way you do: Why Do You Say Yeshua?
by leader in the Messianic Jewish movement
Several years ago, a meeting took place between Jewish and Evangelical theologians to address common concerns and discuss similarities and differences. At one point in the meetings, in the midst of all the dialogue, one Evangelical posed this question point blank: “Why don't you Jews just accept Jesus as your savior.” At this question, the Jewish leaders picked up and left without further discussion.
This is a question that Messianic Jewish people know as our everyday reality. “Why don't the Jewish People accept Yeshua?” Before I attempt to answer this question, it is important to make two observations: First, that all Jewish people have not rejected the Gospel. In the early church, there were many Jewish believers. Acts records that thousands came to the Lord at Shavout (Pentecost). The mother church in Jerusalem was made up of Jewish people. The book of Hebrews was addressed to Jewish believers.
Throughout the post New Testament era, there has been a small but steady stream of Jewish people who have come to the Lord. Neander, the father of church history was a Jewish believer.
There are reasons some Jews still come to Jesus. However the majority stay with Judaism.
Quote A second observation, is that not all gentiles have accepted Jesus. True believers are indeed a minority in the world, even in our own cities. The best we can say, is that some Jews, and some Gentiles have accepted Yeshua, but most people, both Jews and Gentiles have not accepted him. Harry Potter is not read by all people either.
Quote There are two categories of reasons why Jewish people reject the Gospel. The first are theological reasons. Jewish people have a hard time accepting the idea of God existing in human form. This objection is based on the notion that we believe that Yeshua was a man who became God. There are cults today that believe that, but it is not what the Bible teaches. Haha, how about the majority of Christendom? That's one HUGE cult!
Quote The task of the believer who shares with his Jewish friend, is to explain that we do not believe that any man can become a god. You've got people on here thinking that Christians will be gods.
Quote We do believe that God, who is all powerful, can do whatever He chooses, including taking on the form of a man. We do not believe that Yeshua was a man who became God, but God eternally existing, became man, that He might redeem us. Too much scripture to refute this. So basically this writer is saying that the Jew must ignore passages in the Tanakh which go against this. Need one look much farther to figure out why Jews often reject Jesus?
Quote A second theological objection Jewish people hold to the gospel, is the concept of the Trinity. The Jewish definition of monotheism seeks to leave no room for a plurality in the Godhead. Many Jewish people mistakenly believe the Christians worship three Gods. It is important for a believer to point out to his Jewish friend that the Jewish Bible uses a word for ONE to describe God that allows for a plurality. Only those truly ignorant of Hebrew make this statement.
Quote The great confession, “Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is One,” uses the word ECHAD to describe the oneness of God. Had a different word been used, they could claim the oneness of God was absolute, but the word ECHAD allows for a composite unity. It is the word used in Genesis 2:24 when the man and woman marry, “…and the two become one flesh.” So the man and woman are now indistinguishable and are no longer two separate people? I don't know, when I see a married couple I still see a man and a woman. Two people. The 'one' here has to do with the sexual union of man and woman and the family they now are.
Quote The scripture speaks of a oneness of plurality. Like one wall made up of many bricks. The Trinity does not mean three gods, but rather ONE God in three persons; a Tri-unity, a oneness of th
ree. As New Covenant believers we affirm the monotheism of scripture.Why three? Why not all of the angels and the three gods? After all it can be like many bricks!
Quote A third theological objection, is that we need a mediator to go to God, while they feel they need no mediator. I would point out that yes, we go through Yeshua as our mediator, but because He is God, we are going directly to God. Secondly, I would point out that in Biblical times, Jewish people did not go directly to God. They had to go through a Cohain, a priest, who would bring their offerings before the Lord. It was the high priest, who could enter the Most Holy Place only once a year, and even then, only with the blood of atonement. What a joke. Your own bible says Jesus is the mediator between your god and man. If Jesus is that god why the need for a mediator? Sounds like a redundant verse to me.
Quote These are major theological objections Jewish people have to the Gospel. But they are secondary. The most common reasons Jewish people reject the Gospel are historical. I am referring to persecution in the name of Jesus. In the fourth century, the emperor Constantine supposedly converted to Christianity, and he forcibly converted his empire, demanding baptism or death. Some Jewish people were baptized and later recanted, others chose death. All in the name of Jesus. They recanted or chose death in the name of Jesus? Really though this shows the fruit of the Christian tree. Convert or die or don't convert, die and then burn in hell.
Quote In the ninth through the thirteenth centuries, the crusaders marched against the Moslem infidels to recapture the holy land. On the way, they slaughtered Jewish people by the thousands, in some cases herding them into the synagogues and burning them to the ground while singing hymns of praise to Jesus. Ah, the love of Jesus! Can you see it now? Dead Jews everywhere all while singing praise to Jesus!
Quote In the middle ages, Jews were herded into 'ghettos' to separate them from the 'good Christians.' They had curfews and chained them into the ghettos at night. When waves of persecution or anti-Semitism reached their peaks, they had the Jews chained in, and killed and maimed their Jewish victims. All in the name of Jesus. Such rotten fruit!
Quote During the Spanish inquisition, many Jews were deported, many others were tortured and killed. Lands and property were confiscated, and may have been used to finance Columbus' voyage. All in the name of Jesus. In Russia, thousands of Jewish people were massacred in pogroms by so called Christians. The Russian peasants would put crosses on their doors so the murderers would know to leave them alone. All in the name of Jesus. Jewish people have a very long history of persecution in the name of Jesus. Most of the people who did these things were probably not true believers in Jesus, but some were. As a result, Jewish people have a view of Christians as being anti- Semitic. They say, “How can I accept a religion which has shed so much Jewish blood? I would be a traitor to my fathers who died not to submit to the coercion to accept Jesus.” And where did these Christians get their idea? From the Christian bible! Don't blame the people blame the instruction manual.
Quote But Jewish people need the Gospel … just like everyone else. Yeshua said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the father, except by me.” And we say 'lie'.
Quote It is important that we help our Jewish friends and neighbors see that the people who did these atrocities were not following Yeshua. They went against every teaching and denied Him when they lifted their hands against the Jews. Because of this profanation of the Lord's Name by the anti-Semitic, Jewish people need to be told that a person should believe in Yeshua is because He is the Messiah, not because Christians are such nice people. They need to see that Yeshua is not just a god for the Gentiles, and the Jews have their own, but that because God is One, He is the God of the whole earth, of both Jews and Gentiles. They need to be shown Messianic prophecy (i.e., Isaiah 53; Psalm 22; Zechariah 12:10; Isaiah 7:14; Isaiah 9:11; Daniel 9:26.) They need to see the Jewishness of The Messiah, and of the apostles, of the early church, and of the New Testament. They need to realized that when a Jewish person accepts the Messiah He is still a Jew. That is the biggest lie of all. When a Jew accepts Jesus they are no longer a Jew. Check the genealogies. When people convert they are taken out of the lineage. Conversion to Christianity is the death of the Jewish soul. It is the new way to 'kill Jews'.
Quote This is where terminology comes in. Messianic Believers use a different terminology than most other believers to express our faith. For example, We say YESHUA instead of JESUS. We call ourselves BELIEVERS instead of CHRISTIANS. We refer to our places of worship as CONGREGATIONS instead of CHURCHES. The reason for this is the anti-Semitic history of the Church. We say MESSIAH instead of CHRIST. We use YESHUA, the Hebrew name of Jesus, to express ourselves as Jewish believers, and to help our Jewish brethren to see that not only is the Messiah Jewish, but believing in Him does not make us non-Jewish, and is a fulfillment of God's promises to our People. The Jewish people feel Yeshua is not applicable to them, so they never really have considered His claims. This contextualization of the Gospel, a becoming all things to all men, as Paul taught, and endorsed my most Evangelical seminary Mission departments), is a means to help Jewish people see that Yeshua is really applicable for them, as well as being the original culture in which the New Covenant faith was founded. It is my hope that more and more Jewish people will come to faith in Yeshua the Messiah. This is why I express myself in these terms. I don't ask you to the reader to do so, but I hope you will understand where I am coming from. SHALOM. The Messianic movement is the biggest threat to the survival of the Jewish people. They are the true wolves in sheeps clothing. Underneath they are all evangelicals pretending they are Jews. It is a very underhanded form of deception and many Jews are fighting back and spreading awareness of this evil movement.
Quote Are you a Jew? Is this why you feel this way? I'm just asking because I really don't know anything about you. You seem to have some bottled up anger though. Which can not be good for any kind of believer. Unless of course you worship Satan…then I can see where a Satan worshiper would be angry, I'd probably be angry too…lol I can't worship a being who is not literally real. That is why I couldn't worship Jesus of the bible (or any man) or Satan. And I am not a Jew I am a G-d fearing Gentile. YHVH says in His Tanakh that He is the G-d of all flesh.
Quote Anyway…I'm not 100% sold on the “Oneness” belief yet myself…but I'm also not sold on a Three GOD GODHEAD either.
This might sound confusing to some people…but I do believe there is only one GOD…the Almighty…the Alpha and Omega…the I AM THAT I AM GOD…and Jesus is not that GOD. Jesus is that GODs Son. Jesus or what ever language you use to pronounce his name…has indeed come in the flesh and died for our sins…and his Father which is the GOD hath raised him from the dead and made him Lord and Christ. That still does not make him THE GOD. He even says in the Bible the new testament that you hate so dearly…that we should not worship him…that we should worship GOD. Jesus is actually our fellow servant. He is a Son of GOD just as we are Sons of GOD. We are certainly not GOD…so why should Jesus be considered GOD then?
Does this make any sense yet?
Now…the Holy Ghost is another creation of GOD…actually it is the very spirit of GOD…from the best I can understand. And it was given to Jesus which in turn gave it to us. This is the way i understand things as of right now. This is what the spirit has revealed unto me.There is not Three GODS. Thats is the most ridiculous assumption that I've heard ever. There is one GOD. There is his Son Jesus…we are even the Sons of GOD. And there is the Holy Ghost which is the way GOD fellowships directly with us to this day.
Gods uniting with humans to have children is a pagan myth. Just another reason Jews won't accept Jesus.
Quote Are you saying that the new testament is not real? If you are trying to say that then you are trying to say that the prophesies in the Old Testament of a Saviour have not yet come to pass. 10-4 good buddy! Jesus did not fulfill a single real messianic prophecy so how could he be the messiah? He was never anointed even, he didn't have the lineage to sit on the throne of David.
Quote Brother, I really feel that you need to let go of some of your anger. Really. It is a poison that will consume you if you let it. I have to fight with my temper and aggression everyday. This is a day to day walk. No anger. I just don't like to see so many deceived people worshiping an idol (Jesus) instead of worshiping YHVH.
Quote I do agree with you that the Catholic church…which is what this Constantine appointed the church of Christianity did some of the very things that Jesus said that people would do. You see there is a prophesy of the New Testament that has already came to pass. Jesus said that man would do these things this very man did…all in his name.
John 161These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended.
2They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.
I had to look a little bit to find this scripture…lol. But it proves that the prophesy in the New testament is true…because if you look and the copied information that I pasted and all the killing that went on in the name of GOD, you can see that thats at least one thing that has been proven true thus far from the new Testament. And what of all the Wars and Rumors of wars that are going on even now. Men are crying for peace…but there is none. I'm gonna pull a Dr. Phil here…”Get Real” brother.
The New Testament is True.
Yes…there is some small misconceptions due to the translation of it from Greek to Hebrew. The same is with any other book there is or Man made translation that has brought about misconceptions. But that does not mean the word of GOD if False… Just misconceived in mens hearts.I'm not asking you to call him Jesus…if you don't want to..there is a Hebrew name you can call him if you like…which is Yeshua, then there is this Greek name…Iesous. I'm sure that there is other names in other languages that refer to this messiah as well.
But rest assured my good brother he has come. And he does love you.Again 'Yeshua' is just the invention of the messymaniac Jews.
Quote I'm not asking you to believe in Three GODs either. I'm just asking you to believe in the messiah that the one and only true GOD sent and raised from the dead for our sins.
The reason this had to be done is because GOD can not fellowship with sin, and Man was in Sin. Therefore there had to be a price paid for that sin…which is DEATH…the wages of Sin is DEATH. Therefore, Jesus' Death has paid for our sin. He has defeated DEATH and SIN.I know you don't believe me probably…and I really had not wanted to talk with you about this…but in church tonight the service was about “GOD has chosen you because you have something to Tell”.
So, I feel that I should tell you these things…once again. If GOD does not want to give up on you, we should not either. Because we are of GOD.GOD bless you brother…I pray that you find your answers…and that GOD blesses you life in a great way.
Thanks for the words but I already know where my faith is and it is not in the Christian bible god-man Jesus.Tow what do you believe God to be? Do you think He is as we are, flesh? Well you know what I mean..a sort of “Superman”?
Just wondering because you don't believe in a “spirit” world OR do you?
Ok…I can now see that you are rationally out of control. You have a very distasteful attitude. Even if what you said were true I still would not believe it, because of that spirit that you posses.
Which I have no reason to believe that any of those things you said were true.
However the spirit I feel does not twist my head around like the Exorcist…or what ever that movie you saw was. I have spoke in tongues as the spirit gave utterance though. I think some people do some of those things on their own free will.
But I can tell you that I am through trying to have a conversation with you. I have delivered unto you the message and thus you are not a believer. Therefore or conversation is done. You and GOD have to work it out now.
God bless you and all that is yours.
Quote (TimothyVI @ Nov. 19 2007,22:34) Now, step across this line ___.
I D Double Dare you. I can't believe that we are quarreling among ourselves about
not responding to Tow.
Tow did ot do this, we do it to ourselves.Tim
It's human nature, Tim. Don't let it get you down. Truth be told, we're all just a bunch of kids trying to get along with one another in a cyber-world.
As for Tow, I'll say it again, those who speak with him should be cautious. He also gave this warning out before he began here……
It's human nature to fight or flight when someone/something attacks. I'm learning that it is OK to evaluate and decide for myself what is true. It's scary. But's it's OK for me. I am allowed to change my mind. I am allowed to go back on words that I have written/spoken. We are all free to leave no rock un-turned in our search for God.
God bless you brother!
MandyTo all Why is it that you are getting upset with each other because of Tow? Why in Heavens name can you not stop answering Him. He would be long gone if everybody would just stop answering Him for awhile. I wonder what Jesus would have done? Would He have dusted of His shoes and walked on? That is what I believe He would have done. Follow His example! I will. You do not have to answer me, just show Tow.
Peace and Love Mrs.
Quote (Not3in1 @ Nov. 18 2007,23:59) I'm curious Tow – chat with Kejonn much lately? It's interesting how he left the scene and you appear on the scene? Hmmmm……. It's also interesting how Kejonn has two different computer locations……. It's also interesting that Kejonn was investigating what you seem so convinced of……… It's also interesting that you both are never online at the same time…… And that you conversed all the time supposedly on this other website, and yet you have not had one conversation with one another here? Very curious, indeed……
Yes I have two, work and home. I've been trying to stay off while at work because I was venturing outside of break time so I was not “rendering unto Caesar” like I should
.I try to stay away as much as possible all together right now because I learned long ago that the best way to fight weaknesses is to not expose yourself to that which makes you weak. I used to have a problem with adult material and found that I would never get rid of the problem until I stopped exposing myself to websites and other material that made me want seek porn out. It was a very big struggle.
Right now I'm not in the right attitude to debate and certainly not in the right attitude to read some of the threads on here lately. The last thread I really got into was the pre-existence thread and people were saying things that just didn't go well with who I believe Yeshua to be. So I stopped debating and have only been here on and off because most of the threads right now aren't ones I care to participate in.
As far us me and towshab “coversing” all the time, it was just a few PMs and emails. Then it was a couple when he first came on here. I think me saying that this site was full of truth-seekers caught his attention so he has been spreading his “truth”. I haven't taken the chance — nor will I — to see what this “truth” is because I've honestly seen much of it before.
That is why I'm looking in different places of the Tanach because I just think there's something people are missing. At least I feel that way in my heart. I put forward the idea that Yeshua may not be the final Messiah and that he was someone totally different yet still prophesied of. Did he not say scripture told of him? The final Messiah is not a spiritual savior in my understanding but I'm open to be proven wrong. I actually desire at this point to be proven wrong
.Kejonn, interesting to see you here because I just posted to Tow about you…….at the right place at the right time?
God bless you on your continual search, brother.
MandyQuote (Not3in1 @ Nov. 19 2007,14:15) Kejonn, interesting to see you here because I just posted to Tow about you…….at the right place at the right time? God bless you on your continual search, brother.
MandyJust a notice from someone that I was mentioned
. Plus a 12-13 hour span is “just posted”? My you are getting suspicious 
.I'm not mad by no means at Tow.
Its just now that hes replied and made mockery of about everything that I've posted with a rather “Uncanny” attitude. I can clearly see where he stands.
I just felt that I should attempt to profess Jesus to him one last time.
He does not want to accept Jesus…so be it.
I do accept Jesus.
So therefore he should not make mock of me…although it says that people will persecute you for my name sake…so its cool. More power to him if he wants to make fun of me because I believe in Jesus and have confessed with my mouth and have the FAITH in him that I should have. Jesus said “Know that they hated me before they hated you”. If I can bare a burden for his name sake then in my belief I'm doing something right.
I have done my part…I have delivered the truth unto him. He does not want anything to do with it. So, therefore our conversation is over…because I don't want anything to do with what he believes.
So we simply agree to disagree.
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