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Matthew 22:29-33(NKJV) reads:
Quote Jesus answered and said to them, “You are mistaken, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven. But concerning the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God, saying, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.” And when the multitudes heard this, they were astonished at His teaching.
Jesus chose not to use a scripture that explicitly speaks of the resurection from the dead but instead went to Exodus 3:6 & 15 where he proved resurection was a logical necissity, i.e. implied, from what is written.
Please note: I obtained the definition I am using for imply from freedictionary.com.
Hi KW,
The first resurrection is of the living.
Those who share the Living Spirit never 'die' but are yet alive, though asleep.
God cannot die and does not leave us or forsake us when we die[heb13.5] and His Gifts [including His living Spirit] are given without repentance[rom11.29]Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 25 2010,06:25) Hi KW,
Jesus told some standing with him they would not die.
The same truth.
Hi Nick:Are the following scriptures the ones to which you are referring?
Quote Matthew 16:25For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. 26For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
27For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
28Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom
If so, what you have indicated, is not quite what he said.
Love in Christ,
MartyHi 94,
Yes.
Some standing with him were to receive a share of God's eternal spirit before they died.
It happened at pentecost.Those are the one spoken of in jn 5 having passed over from death to life.
Nick Hassan,
How are you addressing my point that Jesus taught a doctrine that was implied and explicit in the scripture he cited?
Is Jesus or is Jesus not an example of what we are to do?
Marty,
What do you think of Jesus' method of teaching and whether we should follow in his footsteps and teach/follow teachings that are merely implied and not explicit in scriptures?
Hi KW,
Jesus expressed spiritual truths that those of the Spirit understand.
No human logic or implication is required.Hi KW,
Men everywhere offer to add what they have deduced or found implied in scripture.
They can agree with one another but often do not.
Such are the gnosticsPersonal interpretation is not advised but scripture should be allowed to support itself.
Man fools himself and is not helpful to others when he tries to add his wisdom to God's.
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 25 2010,12:46) Nick Hassan, How are you addressing my point that Jesus taught a doctrine that was implied and explicit in the scripture he cited?
Is Jesus or is Jesus not an example of what we are to do?
Marty,
What do you think of Jesus' method of teaching and whether we should follow in his footsteps and teach/follow teachings that are merely implied and not explicit in scriptures?
Hi Kerwin:They in the OT did not have the full revelation that we have now, although we also, may not have the understanding of some of the scriptures that are are written. The Saducees did not believe in the resurrection but perhaps they should have believed because of the scriptures that you quote in Exodus.
I am reluctant to say that we should teach doctrines that are implied because Jesus is our example. We should teach and obey what he taught, and pray for understanding of those things that we may not understand before we teach them.
What doctrines that are implied do you want to teach?
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 25 2010,11:38) Hi 94,
Yes.
Some standing with him were to receive a share of God's eternal spirit before they died.
It happened at pentecost.Those are the one spoken of in jn 5 having passed over from death to life.
Hi Nick:I am not sure that he is speaking of some receiving eternal life here in these scriptures. He is speaking of someone losing their soul and of eternal death.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 25 2010,14:25) Hi 94,
Are Abraham, Isaac and Jacob alive?
God is the God of the living.
Lk 20.37-38
Hi Nick:But this is not the same as what the scriptures to which you refer in Matthew 16. Anyway, we are getting off the topic.
Love in Christ,
MartyHi 94,
Same meaning.
And they will be seated together at the wedding feast.Matthew 8:11
“I say to you that many will come from east and west, and recline at the table with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven;Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 25 2010,08:10) Hi KW,
Jesus expressed spiritual truths that those of the Spirit understand.
No human logic or implication is required.
Jesus used human logic to express those truths. You are lying if you state otherwise.Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote Men everywhere offer to add what they have deduced or found implied in scripture.
Are their deductions correct? Jesus’ is and so are those of his servants.
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote Personal interpretation is not advised but scripture should be allowed to support itself.
Interpretation that is from the corrupt nature of man is personal interpretation. God must lead us to the correct interpretation. Look at those who listened to Jesus’ argument about the implications of scripture. Those that believed with what he stated were led by God to do so even though he made a logical argument while those who rejected his teaching were living according to their corrupt spirit.
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote Man fools himself and is not helpful to others when he tries to add his wisdom to God's.
A man is wise to seek the wisdom of God with the tools God provides him with.
Marty,
I merely at this time am makeing the point that God is not always explicit in what he teaches. He expects us to understand him none the less. The way we learn is to submit ourselves to him as we seek him in other ways as well.
In this way I hope to remove obstacles from the path of others as they seek God.
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 25 2010,16:23) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 25 2010,08:10) Hi KW,
Jesus expressed spiritual truths that those of the Spirit understand.
No human logic or implication is required.
Jesus used human logic to express those truths. You are lying if you state otherwise.
Hi KW,
Strong words towards those who find logic rather shallow wisdom.
Agree or else?Hi KW,
implication is very imprecise science.
Yours are unlikely to be mine.Throw in some vain logic and we will never agree.
That is why Jesus said “thy word is truth”
We do have a secure foundation to stand on.Why not try it?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 25 2010,14:00) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 25 2010,16:23) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 25 2010,08:10) Hi KW,
Jesus expressed spiritual truths that those of the Spirit understand.
No human logic or implication is required.
Jesus used human logic to express those truths. You are lying if you state otherwise.
Hi KW,
Strong words towards those who find logic rather shallow wisdom.
Agree or else?
You have stange reasoning.In the real world the statement “Jesus used human logic to express those truths.” is either true or false. It is true and therefore deny what is true is by definition a lie.
Actually I have to correct myself. It would be an untruth to deny a truth. In order to be a lie you would have to be deliberately presenting an untruth as true.
I do not have a reasonable doubt that you cannot regonize a logical argument when you read one and the argument Jesus used was definately logical. It was not even the esoteric logic that Matthew uses at times.
I can see you being in self-denial which is rather a common action for human beings. You would still be lying but you would not be aware of it. That is probably the case.
What ever the case though if we cannot have an honest discussion then I do not see how the discussion can progress.
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