- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Hi Tow,
We love to share the treasures of scripture with those who are hungry for truth.
You have nothing useful to bring here.But it is only truth if you suspend common sense and depend solely on the words of other fallible men to be true.
Hi Tow,
Commonsense cannot save you.
You must accept that God has revealed Himself despite the weak vessels.
That is the amazing power of the Holy Spirit of our God.Yes, mostly ineffectual jabs, alot of clinches, and the occasional low-blow. But Nick seems to like this type of exchange.
Hi tow,
If you start with believing the written revelation of our God and let it teach you and allow the awareness of your pathetic ignorance and the awe of our God to grow in you and you seek the forgiveness of the Author for your foolish, arrogant and godless ways He will draw close to you and show you His ways of goodness and love.Mal3
13 “You have said harsh things against me,” says the LORD.
“Yet you ask, 'What have we said against you?'14 “You have said, 'It is futile to serve God. What did we gain by carrying out his requirements and going about like mourners before the LORD Almighty? 15 But now we call the arrogant blessed. Certainly the evildoers prosper, and even those who challenge God escape.' ”
16 Then those who feared the LORD talked with each other, and the LORD listened and heard. A scroll of remembrance was written in his presence concerning those who feared the LORD and honored his name.
17 “They will be mine,” says the LORD Almighty, “in the day when I make up my treasured possession. [a] I will spare them, just as in compassion a man spares his son who serves him. 18 And you will again see the distinction between the righteous and the wicked, between those who serve God and those who do not.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 24 2007,11:21) Hi tow,
If you start with believing the written revelation of our God and let it teach you and allow the awareness of your pathetic ignorance and the awe of our God to grow in you and you seek the forgiveness of the Author for your foolish, arrogant and godless ways He will draw close to you and show you His ways of goodness and love.Mal3
13 “You have said harsh things against me,” says the LORD.
“Yet you ask, 'What have we said against you?'14 “You have said, 'It is futile to serve God. What did we gain by carrying out his requirements and going about like mourners before the LORD Almighty? 15 But now we call the arrogant blessed. Certainly the evildoers prosper, and even those who challenge God escape.' ”
16 Then those who feared the LORD talked with each other, and the LORD listened and heard. A scroll of remembrance was written in his presence concerning those who feared the LORD and honored his name.
17 “They will be mine,” says the LORD Almighty, “in the day when I make up my treasured possession. [a] I will spare them, just as in compassion a man spares his son who serves him. 18 And you will again see the distinction between the righteous and the wicked, between those who serve God and those who do not.
Wait, where is Jesus in any of this?Hi Tow,
The one who is the way, the truth and the life are the door of our God for all.
But even those who treasure His words will be blessed.
God is merciful.Quote (Towshab @ Dec. 24 2007,16:02) Quote (942767 @ Dec. 23 2007,21:06) Quote (Towshab @ Dec. 24 2007,13:35) Quote (942767 @ Dec. 23 2007,18:57) Hi Tow: I notice that you read a portion of my post and respond and then another portion of my post and then respond etc. without reading the whole thing. I've already answered your questions.
The healing of Lazarus was both literal and symbolic.
Why both? So you can cover both in case you are wrong about one?
Quote I cannot convert anyone. My commission is to share the gospel which is good news with whomever will hear. If they choose to believe and come to God with a repentant heart, they will know if the message that I a preaching is the truth or a lie.
You sad come to G-d, not Jesus. So you admit Jesus is not nessicery.Quote If God confirms the message by baptizing the believer with the Holy Spirit then He has said that I what I am preaching is the truth regardless of what you or anyone else might say.
Amazing, no Jesus in that anywhere.
Hi Tow:I said:
The healing of Lazarus was both literal and symbolic.
And you ask:
Quote Why both? So you can cover both in case you are wrong about one? Both, because it is the truth.
Where is your proof that it is true? Because you believe so? Yes, then, in your imagination, it is true.
Quote And, Jesus has stated:
Quote John 14:5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? 6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. And so, whether or not I mentioned Jesus in my previous post relative to those who come to God with a repentant heart for salvation, perhaps the forgoing scripture will assure you that I know that no man can saved except through him.
So G-d decided to wait 4000 years to give Jesus? Why do you think G-d was so cold towards the men before Jesus and waited so long to give mankind redemption?
God was not cold for 4000 years. His plan for salvation of mankind from the consequence of sin was with Him from the beginning. The plan had to unfold. There were some from each generation who will be saved in the resurrection of God's people.Jesus is the propitiantion for the sins of all of mankind. Without this sacrifice, there would be no salvation. God does things in His precise timing.
The scripture states:
Quote Gal. 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, 5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. 6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. 7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ. Quote Hebrews (:23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: 25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; 26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: 28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. Quote (942767 @ Dec. 24 2007,16:04) God was not cold for 4000 years. His plan for salvation of mankind from the consequence of sin was with Him from the beginning. The plan had to unfold. There were some from each generation who will be saved in the resurrection of God's people. So G-d, perfect and all-powerful, had to take 4000 years to formulate and carry out His plan? Are you sure we're speaking of the same G-d?
Quote Jesus is the propitiantion for the sins of all of mankind. Without this sacrifice, there would be no salvation. God does things in His precise timing. The scripture states:
Quote Gal. 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, 5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. 6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. 7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ. Quote Hebrews (:23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: 25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; 26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: 28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
Sorry, but there is no single instance that the King Messiah was to be sent to die for other people's sins.Hi Tow,
I am happy to see the full revelation of the plan of God
hidden from those diverted into religious observance.Hi Tow:
Quote Quote (942767 @ Dec. 24 2007,16:04)
God was not cold for 4000 years. His plan for salvation of mankind from the consequence of sin was with Him from the beginning. The plan had to unfold. There were some from each generation who will be saved in the resurrection of God's people.So G-d, perfect and all-powerful, had to take 4000 years to formulate and carry out His plan? Are you sure we're speaking of the same G-d?
No, not to formulate his plan that was with Him from the beginning.
Quote Ephesians 3
1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, 2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: 3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, 4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) 5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; 6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: 7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power. 8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; 9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: 10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, 11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord: 12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.
Obviously, you and I are not talking about the same God. But we know that there is only “ONE GOD”.
You say:
Quote Sorry, but there is no single instance that the King Messiah was to be sent to die for other people's sins. Please re-read the following scriptures and perhaps you will come up with a different conclusion:
Quote Isaiah 53
1 Who hath believed our report F242? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed? 2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. 3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. 5 But he was wounded F243 for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. 6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid F244 on him the iniquity of us all. 7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. 8 He was taken from prison F245 and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. 9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; F246 because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. 11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 24 2007,19:28) Hi Tow,
I am happy to see the full revelation of the plan of God
hidden from those diverted into religious observance.
Yes, Christians, who have 1000s of different denominations, who are supposed to be in one accord because they are supposed to all have the same spirit, are certainly enlightened.Quote (942767 @ Dec. 24 2007,21:01) Hi Tow: Quote Quote (942767 @ Dec. 24 2007,16:04)
God was not cold for 4000 years. His plan for salvation of mankind from the consequence of sin was with Him from the beginning. The plan had to unfold. There were some from each generation who will be saved in the resurrection of God's people.So G-d, perfect and all-powerful, had to take 4000 years to formulate and carry out His plan? Are you sure we're speaking of the same G-d?
No, not to formulate his plan that was with Him from the beginning.
I note you left out the part about carrying out His plan.
Do you think a loving G-d would leave mankind without a savior for thousands of years?
Quote Quote Ephesians 3 1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, 2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: 3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, 4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) 5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; 6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: 7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power. 8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; 9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: 10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, 11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord: 12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.
Obviously, you and I are not talking about the same God. But we know that there is only “ONE GOD”.
Which one are you talking about though, YHVH or Jesus' father?
Quote You say: Quote Sorry, but there is no single instance that the King Messiah was to be sent to die for other people's sins. Please re-read the following scriptures and perhaps you will come up with a different conclusion:
Quote Isaiah 53 1 Who hath believed our report F242? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed? 2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. 3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. 5 But he was wounded F243 for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. 6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid F244 on him the iniquity of us all. 7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. 8 He was taken from prison F245 and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. 9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; F246 because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. 11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
(1) King Messiah is either called 'David', 'son of David', or some other variation. He is never called 'my servant' although he will indeed fear the L-rd. In fact, he is never called by the title 'moshiach' ('messiah') in Tanakh!(2) If you read Is 53 is he context of the rest of Isaiah you would know that the servant is called by name several times: Jacob, or Israel.
(3) Poor translation aside, what of Is 53:10? Where in your GT does Jesus offer his soul? That is where the translation error corrects itself in Christian translations: you make an offering to to redeem your soul, souls are not offered for redemption. This Is 53:10 is about the servant seeking redemption for the soul.
===========================
1Ki 1:29 And the king swore, saying, “As the LORD lives, who has redeemed my soul out of every adversity,Job 33:28 He has redeemed my soul from going down into the pit, and my life shall look upon the light.'
Psa 23:3 He restores my soul. He leads me in paths of righteousness for his name's sake.
Psa 71:23 My lips will shout for joy, when I sing praises to you; my soul also, which you have redeemed.
===========================So it appears that Christians really need to reread Isaiah 53 in its full context.
Isa 53:1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
Isa 53:2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
Isa 53:3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
Isa 53:4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
Isa 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
Isa 53:7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
Isa 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
Isa 53:9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
Isa 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
Isa 53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
Isa 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.Gen 22:8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.
Eze 45:15 And one lamb out of the flock, out of two hundred, out of the fat pastures of Israel; for a meat offering, and for a burnt offering, and for peace offerings, to make reconciliation for them, saith the Lord GOD.
Joh 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
Joh 1:36 And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!
Rev 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
Rev 7:17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.
Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
Rev 15:3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.
Rev 19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
Rev 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
Rev 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
Rev 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb
Rev 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
Quote (kenrch @ Dec. 25 2007,09:00) Isa 53:1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
Isa 53:2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
Isa 53:3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
Isa 53:4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
Isa 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
Isa 53:7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
Isa 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
Isa 53:9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
Isa 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
Isa 53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
Isa 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.Gen 22:8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.
Yes, G-d provided a lamb that very day. A ram is a male sheep, a lamb just a young sheep.
Quote Eze 45:15 And one lamb out of the flock, out of two hundred, out of the fat pastures of Israel; for a meat offering, and for a burnt offering, and for peace offerings, to make reconciliation for them, saith the Lord GOD. Jesus was not burned nor was his blood placed on an altar, therefore he cannot be a proper offering.
Quote Joh 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. Joh 1:36 And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!
Rev 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
Rev 7:17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.
Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
Rev 15:3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.
Rev 19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
Rev 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
Rev 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
Rev 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb
Rev 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
Again, none of your GT verses apply because Jesus was not offered according to Torah.Quote (Towshab @ Dec. 25 2007,20:32) Quote (942767 @ Dec. 24 2007,21:01) Hi Tow: Quote Quote (942767 @ Dec. 24 2007,16:04)
God was not cold for 4000 years. His plan for salvation of mankind from the consequence of sin was with Him from the beginning. The plan had to unfold. There were some from each generation who will be saved in the resurrection of God's people.So G-d, perfect and all-powerful, had to take 4000 years to formulate and carry out His plan? Are you sure we're speaking of the same G-d?
No, not to formulate his plan that was with Him from the beginning.
I note you left out the part about carrying out His plan.
Do you think a loving G-d would leave mankind without a savior for thousands of years?
Quote Quote Ephesians 3
1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, 2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: 3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, 4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) 5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; 6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: 7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power. 8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; 9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: 10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, 11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord: 12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.
Obviously, you and I are not talking about the same God. But we know that there is only “ONE GOD”.
Which one are you talking about though, YHVH or Jesus' father?
Quote You say: Quote Sorry, but there is no single instance that the King Messiah was to be sent to die for other people's sins. Please re-read the following scriptures and perhaps you will come up with a different conclusion:
Quote Isaiah 53
1 Who hath believed our report F242? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed? 2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. 3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. 5 But he was wounded F243 for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. 6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid F244 on him the iniquity of us all. 7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. 8 He was taken from prison F245 and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. 9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; F246 because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. 11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
(1) King Messiah is either called 'David', 'son of David', or some other variation. He is never called 'my servant' although he will indeed fear the L-rd. In fact, he is never called by the title 'moshiach' ('messiah') in Tanakh!(2) If you read Is 53 is he context of the rest of Isaiah you would know that the servant is called by name several times: Jacob, or Israel.
(3) Poor translation aside, what of Is 53:10? Where in your GT does Jesus offer his soul? That is where the translation error corrects itself in Christian translations: you make an offering to to redeem your soul, souls are not offered for redemption. This Is 53:10 is about the servant seeking redemption for the soul.
===========================
1Ki 1:29 And the king swore, saying, “As the LORD lives, who has redeemed my soul out of every adversity,Job 33:28 He has redeemed my soul from going down into the pit, and my life shall look upon the light.'
Psa 23:3 He restores my soul. He leads me in paths of righteousness for his name's sake.
Psa 71:23 My lips will shout for joy, when I sing praises to you; my soul also, which you have redeemed.
===========================So it appears that Christians really need to reread Isaiah 53 in its full context.
Hi Tow,
Did you not know our Saviour God saves through His appointed saviour Son?
There is no other way for gentiles like you.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 25 2007,11:51) Hi Tow,
Did you not know our Saviour God saves through His appointed saviour Son?
There is no other way for gentiles like you.
Hi Nick,Did you not know that there has never been a spiritual salvation only belonging to some elite group? What you put forward is a Christian lie.
Spiritual salvation along the lines of Christianity is a pagan ideal. There is no such ideal in Tanakh. G-d does not offer anyone a short human existence to be followed by an eternal walk on the clouds. If that was the case, why even bother with the short intermediate step?
There is a belief 'the world to come'. Judaism maintains that the righteous of all nations have a place in the world to come. Those who die will be resurrected when the true King Messiah comes and the world to come ('olam haba') will be here on the earth.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
