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Nick, after going back and forth with you and then reading some of your responses to others on here, I realize you do not worship G-d, Jesus, 'god the father' or any other being. You, sir, worship your bible.
Hi Tow,
Not so amigo. But I do give it the same importance Jesus did.
The thoughts of men are clever in their own eyes.
The words of scripture cannot be broken.And what importance did Jesus give the bible? Seems he broke Torah on occasion, so you do the same, just to be like Jesus? I've already shown where he broke Torah by saying his followers must drink his blood to have life (a concept borrowed from Mithraism), let's see if we can find some more examples of the 'sinless' Jesus.
Exo 20:12 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land that the LORD your God is giving you.
Lev 19:3 Every one of you shall revere his mother and his father, and you shall keep my Sabbaths: I am the LORD your God.Since Jesus' days were short and not long, perhaps he broke this command of G-d?
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Mat 12:46 While he was still speaking to the people, behold, his mother and his brothers stood outside, asking to speak to him.
Mat 12:47 [Someone told him, “Your mother and your brothers are standing outside, asking to speak to you.”]
Mat 12:48 But he replied to the man who told him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?”
Mat 12:49 And stretching out his hand toward his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers!
Mat 12:50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”
===================================So it seems rather than to love and honor his mother, Jesus spurned her and sought out family amongst his followers instead. But I wonder what he taught about parents?
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Mat 10:34 “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.
Mat 10:35 For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.
Mat 10:36 And a person's enemies will be those of his own household.
Mat 10:37 Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me
===============================My my, YHVH says that we should honor father and mother, and Jesus said he came to turn children against their father and mother! So much for the 'prince of peace'!
So lets see, he is against father and mother and wants people to drink blood. I wonder what else he did that was 'sinless'?
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Exo 22:21 “You shall not wrong a sojourner or oppress him, for you were sojourners in the land of Egypt.Deu 10:19 Love the sojourner, therefore, for you were sojourners in the land of Egypt.
===============================The word for 'sojourner' means those who not of the Israelite race, or Gentiles. So how does Jesus treat Gentiles?
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Mat 15:22 And behold, a Canaanite woman from that region came out and was crying, “Have mercy on me, O Lord, Son of David; my daughter is severely oppressed by a demon.”
Mat 15:23 But he did not answer her a word. And his disciples came and begged him, saying, “Send her away, for she is crying out after us.”
Mat 15:24 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”
Mat 15:25 But she came and knelt before him, saying, “Lord, help me.”
Mat 15:26 And he answered, “It is not right to take the children's bread and throw it to the dogs.”
===============================I dont know about you, but if someone calls me a dog, I'm not believing there is much love in them for me. Thus Jesus breaks Torah here by mistreating this Gentile woman. Next.
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Lev 19:16 You shall not go around as a slanderer among your people, and you shall not stand up against the life of your neighbor: I am the LORD.
Lev 19:17 “You shall not hate your brother in your heart, but you shall reason frankly with your neighbor, lest you incur sin because of him.
Lev 19:18 You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against the sons of your own people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the LORD.
===============================This passage basically says that you should not hold grudges against your fellow, and love neighbor's as one's self. But does Jesus walk the talk?
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Mat 23:13 “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. For you neither enter yourselves nor allow those who would enter to go in.
Mat 23:14 [Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you devour widows' houses and for a pretense you make long prayers; therefore you will receive the greater condemnation.]
Mat 23:15 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel across sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes a proselyte, you make him twice as much a child of hell as yourselves.
Mat 23:16 “Woe to you, blind guides, who say, 'If anyone swears by the temple, it is nothing, but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.'
Mat 23:17 You blind fools! For which is greater, the gold or the temple that has made the gold sacred?Mat 23:23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others.
Mat 23:24 You blind guides, straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel!
Mat 23:25 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and the plate, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence.
Mat 23:26 You blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and the plate, that the outside also may be clean.
Mat 23:27 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within are full of dead people's bones and all uncleanness.
Mat 23:28 So you also outwardly appear righteous to others, but within you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessnessMat 23:33 You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell?
===============================Well again it seems that Jesus either does not know Torah or he is purposely breaking it. Here he publicly ridicules his fellow Jew when G-d's Torah specifically forbids such behavior.
There are other instances where Jesus broke Torah, but lets consider that Jesus never once said he was without sin. it was said of him by others. In fact, the following pretty much proves Jesus admitting to being sinful:
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Mat 3:11 “I baptize you with water for repentance, but he who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.Mar 1:4 John appeared, baptizing in the wilderness and proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.
Luk 3:3 And he went into all the region around the Jordan, proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.
===============================So what was John's baptism for? Repentance for the forgiveness of sins. Jesus admitted he needed such a baptism:
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Mat 3:14 John would have prevented him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?”
Mat 3:15 But Jesus answered him, “Let it be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Th
en he consented.
===============================Jesus of Nazareth, sinner.
Hi Tow,
Jesus, the Christ of God, had authority in all things given to him.
He was Lord of the sabbath.
Interesting you would call him a sinner.Hi Tow,
Christ, the Holy one of God, fulfiilled all the righteous expectations of God, and so we could follow him.
John knew he was the one who needed to be washed by Jesus.
Who appointed you his judge?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 21 2007,16:15) Hi Tow,
Jesus, the Christ of God, had authority in all things given to him.
He was Lord of the sabbath.
Interesting you would call him a sinner.
I merely call sin that which is against Torah. I provided examples of how Jesus broke Torah, and sin is breaking Torah. Even Jesus admitted to sin by subjecting himself to John's baptism, which was a baptism of repentance for forgiveness of sins. Why would a sinless Jesus need forgiveness of sins?If you sin, you are a sinner. Its doesn't get much plainer than that.
Hi Tow,
The Son of God submitted to baptism but not because he was a sinner but because he was a man and God required it of him. No sin was accrued to his account by God and it is that which matters. Ps 32Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 21 2007,18:50) Hi Tow,
The Son of God submitted to baptism but not because he was a sinner but because he was a man and God required it of him. No sin was accrued to his account by God and it is that which matters. Ps 32
Sorry, but you have no scriptural evidence of this. GT evidence says John's baptism was for repentance for forgiveness of sins and Jesus requested that John baptize him to fulfill righteousness. This Jesus admits that he needed to repent.Hi Tow,
You should not add your assumptions to the holy words
But of course none of them are holy to you.
You deny the prophets of God.What assumptions? Its a matter of 2+2.
John's baptism = repentance for forgiveness of sins
Jesus requested John's baptism = Jesus had sinned and need to repent
2+2=4, not 5 like you want it to.
What is sin then Nick? Please define sin for me. Wait, I'll let your own GT define sin for you
1Jn 3:4 Everyone who keeps sinning is violating Torah – indeed, sin is violation of Torah.
Also Nick, since you do not accept that Jesus is G-d, then you must also deal with Paul's statement:
Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God
Here Paul says ALL have sinned. He did not say all except Jesus, he said ALL. Since he is comparing others to the glory of G-d and Jesus is not G-d, then Paul also admits that Jesus had sinned.
Yes, I believe G-d. You, on the other hand, believe what others have written about G-d. HUGE difference.
G-d speaks to the heart. What is written is done so by other men, just like me. Thus I can choose to say 'no' to that which does not match a loving and all-powerful Creator.
What makes the words written by other human beings any more truthful than what I, a human being, believe?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 21 2007,21:29) Hi Tow,
Is God in the heart of every sinner?
Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of GodWe are all sinners according to your 100% true book Nick. Therefore you have NO advantage over anyone else. Please come off your pedestal and realize that you are no more loved and cherished by G-d than anyone else.
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