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Hi Tow,
The new reveals the fullness of the old.
New wine does need new wineskins though.
New wine is powerful stuff fit to raise the dead.Quote (Towshab @ Dec. 19 2007,00:18) Since Christians say Satan is a literal spiritual being, and his whole existence is supposedly dedicated to deceiving, here is a question for you to answer: Paul never met Jesus. Paul often called what he wrote 'my gospel' rather than the gospel of Jesus. Jesus told men to keep the commandments, Paul told them grace was all sufficient.
Therefore, since Paul never met Jesus, what proof is there that the voice that Paul encountered on the road to Damascus was not that of Satan?
Now it has been many years since I have even read the passage which I am about to quote. The quote is found in the book of ACTS and I have to look it up.Acts 26: 12Whereupon as I went to Damascus with authority and commission from the chief priests,
13At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me.
14And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
15And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.
16But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;
17Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,
18To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
The Lord Jesus spoke to Saul…well knocked him off his high horse actually. I accept the testimony/conversion of Saul who became Paul, as being what he says it is. Besides, the Spirit of God bears witness to the bible that it is the truth, and The Holy Spirit did visit me and confirm the bible to me that it is the truth. For the Spirit of God does bear witness to my spirit that I am his son, He in me, and I in Him.
I assume you have never experienced the Glory of God coming upon you through the presence of His Holy Spirit, if you had, you could not say this. I will warn you to be very careful that you do not sin against the Holy Spirit. Watch what you say.
Dcman,
Ah, more Christian 'threat-based' rhetoric. I don't believe in your pagan god-man Jesus. I believe there was a Jew named Yeshu the Nazarene, but he was a street preacher who picked up some parlor tricks while hanging out in Egypt. While he was there he seems to have hung out with some Buddhists as well.
Since YHVH is never mentioned a single time in the GT, there is no legitimate claim that the father of Jesus was YHVH. G-d never spoke of father a human son by copulating with a virgin in His Tanakh, and He did not keep secrets from His prophets. Thus, 'god the father' of the GT is some pagan god, perhaps Jupiter or whoever Mithra's father was. Not that I believe in a virgin birth by any means any way, but myths are myths so you might as well come up with a good one.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 19 2007,15:41) Hi Tow,
The new reveals the fullness of the old.
New wine does need new wineskins though.
New wine is powerful stuff fit to raise the dead.
Sorry but your new wine tastes like Boone's Farms Strawberry Hill.Quote (Towshab @ Dec. 20 2007,11:39) Dcman, Ah, more Christian 'threat-based' rhetoric. I don't believe in your pagan god-man Jesus. I believe there was a Jew named Yeshu the Nazarene, but he was a street preacher who picked up some parlor tricks while hanging out in Egypt. While he was there he seems to have hung out with some Buddhists as well.
Since YHVH is never mentioned a single time in the GT, there is no legitimate claim that the father of Jesus was YHVH. G-d never spoke of father a human son by copulating with a virgin in His Tanakh, and He did not keep secrets from His prophets. Thus, 'god the father' of the GT is some pagan god, perhaps Jupiter or whoever Mithra's father was. Not that I believe in a virgin birth by any means any way, but myths are myths so you might as well come up with a good one.
Exactly he was the son of the Most High not Jehovah / Samael.Good post Tow
Quote (Towshab @ Dec. 20 2007,11:39) Dcman, Ah, more Christian 'threat-based' rhetoric. I don't believe in your pagan god-man Jesus. I believe there was a Jew named Yeshu the Nazarene, but he was a street preacher who picked up some parlor tricks while hanging out in Egypt. While he was there he seems to have hung out with some Buddhists as well.
Since YHVH is never mentioned a single time in the GT, there is no legitimate claim that the father of Jesus was YHVH. G-d never spoke of father a human son by copulating with a virgin in His Tanakh, and He did not keep secrets from His prophets. Thus, 'god the father' of the GT is some pagan god, perhaps Jupiter or whoever Mithra's father was. Not that I believe in a virgin birth by any means any way, but myths are myths so you might as well come up with a good one.
Hi TOW,
So you believe in Jesus of Nazareth.
How did you hear about him?
Through the NT?
So you believe in that as well?
So you also believe in the miracles he is reported to have done in those writings?If you do not believe he did those miracles were they were exaggerated or misreported?
So if some things are not right why do you believe any of these things as you obviously do?
Why not deny he existed or did these things at all?So why do you keep believing in him and the NT?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 19 2007,18:46) Hi Tow,
That is how it is for the lost.
Keep searching.
'Lost' is a Christian term made up to make those who ignore Jesus out to be looking for something yet not finding. It is just another Christian lie meant to prey on the weak and ignorant. For those who know Tanakh, there is no 'lost'.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 19 2007,18:59) Quote (Towshab @ Dec. 20 2007,11:39) Dcman, Ah, more Christian 'threat-based' rhetoric. I don't believe in your pagan god-man Jesus. I believe there was a Jew named Yeshu the Nazarene, but he was a street preacher who picked up some parlor tricks while hanging out in Egypt. While he was there he seems to have hung out with some Buddhists as well.
Since YHVH is never mentioned a single time in the GT, there is no legitimate claim that the father of Jesus was YHVH. G-d never spoke of father a human son by copulating with a virgin in His Tanakh, and He did not keep secrets from His prophets. Thus, 'god the father' of the GT is some pagan god, perhaps Jupiter or whoever Mithra's father was. Not that I believe in a virgin birth by any means any way, but myths are myths so you might as well come up with a good one.
Hi TOW,
So you believe in Jesus of Nazareth.
How did you hear about him?
Through the NT?
So you believe in that as well?
So you also believe in the miracles he is reported to have done in those writings?I used to be a Christian until I really started studying Tanakh. So I know all about the pagan god-man, more so than most who still call themselves Christians.
As far as the miracles, no I don't believe them. Another pagan insertion into the life of a poor Jewish man to make him look divine. After all, his message was not enough, he had to have godly powers like the other mythological characters running around in Rome at the time.
Quote If you do not believe he did those miracles were they were exaggerated or misreported? Either blatant lies or easily impressed people. Just think how people in the 50s were impressed with the 'special effects' back then. A few parlor tricks and Jesus had many people going 'oooh, ahhh'.
Quote So if some things are not right why do you believe any of these things as you obviously do?
Why not deny he existed or did these things at all?So why do you keep believing in him and the NT?
I don't believe IN him, just that the historical Jesus existed. There are many scholars who believe the same. Many still call themselves Christians yet don't believe in the virgin birth, most of the miracles, or even that he was raised from the dead. They merely believe in his teaching outside of these myths.Quote (Towshab @ Dec. 20 2007,12:03) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 19 2007,18:46) Hi Tow,
That is how it is for the lost.
Keep searching.
'Lost' is a Christian term made up to make those who ignore Jesus out to be looking for something yet not finding. It is just another Christian lie meant to prey on the weak and ignorant. For those who know Tanakh, there is no 'lost'.
Hi Tow,
Is there salvation to be found in KNOWING tanakh?
Amazing.
Is it written?No, but YHVH said He is the only savior. G-d does not delegate such matters, nor does He share His glory. That IS written.
Hi TOW,
Did God send angels to speak for Him?
Did He sent prophets to speak for Him?
God is the only saviour…through many means.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 19 2007,19:32) Hi TOW,
Did God send angels to speak for Him?
Did He sent prophets to speak for Him?
God is the only saviour…through many means.
Yes, shame Jesus isn't one of those means.Sorry, John was no prophet.
Joh 1:20 He confessed, and did not deny, but confessed, “I am not the Christ.”
Joh 1:21 And they asked him, “What then? Are you Elijah?” He said, “I am not.” “Are you the Prophet?” And he answered, “No.”So Jesus says he is, John says he isn't. Sorry to disappoint you, but again you have conflicting stories in your GT.
Hi TOW,
You called him a prophet so are you retracting that now?
He was not THE PROPHET like Moses who is spoken of in Acts 2 quoting the OT.
That is Jesus.Nick,
Please show where I called John the Baptist a prophet. Also, there is no definite article accompanying the Greek word for prophet so there is no real reason to translate 'the prophet'. It should really be 'a prophet' due to the lack of a definite article.
Quote (Towshab @ Dec. 20 2007,12:13) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 19 2007,18:59) Quote (Towshab @ Dec. 20 2007,11:39) Dcman, Ah, more Christian 'threat-based' rhetoric. I don't believe in your pagan god-man Jesus. I believe there was a Jew named Yeshu the Nazarene, but he was a street preacher who picked up some parlor tricks while hanging out in Egypt. While he was there he seems to have hung out with some Buddhists as well.
Since YHVH is never mentioned a single time in the GT, there is no legitimate claim that the father of Jesus was YHVH. G-d never spoke of father a human son by copulating with a virgin in His Tanakh, and He did not keep secrets from His prophets. Thus, 'god the father' of the GT is some pagan god, perhaps Jupiter or whoever Mithra's father was. Not that I believe in a virgin birth by any means any way, but myths are myths so you might as well come up with a good one.
Hi TOW,
So you believe in Jesus of Nazareth.
How did you hear about him?
Through the NT?
So you believe in that as well?
So you also believe in the miracles he is reported to have done in those writings?I used to be a Christian until I really started studying Tanakh. So I know all about the pagan god-man, more so than most who still call themselves Christians.
As far as the miracles, no I don't believe them. Another pagan insertion into the life of a poor Jewish man to make him look divine. After all, his message was not enough, he had to have godly powers like the other mythological characters running around in Rome at the time.
Quote If you do not believe he did those miracles were they were exaggerated or misreported? Either blatant lies or easily impressed people. Just think how people in the 50s were impressed with the 'special effects' back then. A few parlor tricks and Jesus had many people going 'oooh, ahhh'.
Quote So if some things are not right why do you believe any of these things as you obviously do?
Why not deny he existed or did these things at all?So why do you keep believing in him and the NT?
I don't believe IN him, just that the historical Jesus existed. There are many scholars who believe the same. Many still call themselves Christians yet don't believe in the virgin birth, most of the miracles, or even that he was raised from the dead. They merely believe in his teaching outside of these myths.
Hi Tow,
Your parlour tricks idea of recorded miracles is brave.
Does your god not demonstrate his powers by such loving actions?
Were the miracles of the prophets of the same ilk?Until such miracles can be produced in modern society, I will find no reason to believe them. That includes the Tanakh, yes. Like I said, I am a deist, which means I believe in a Creator. However, of all the revealed religions, Judaism is the one that I believe has the most truth but like anything involving humanity, it is not 100% true.
That is the way it is with all revealed religions. People will adhere to a faith that matches what they want to believe. And that is why Stu believes none of it, because none of it matches his own personal set of beliefs.
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