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Since Christians say Satan is a literal spiritual being, and his whole existence is supposedly dedicated to deceiving, here is a question for you to answer:
Paul never met Jesus. Paul often called what he wrote 'my gospel' rather than the gospel of Jesus. Jesus told men to keep the commandments, Paul told them grace was all sufficient.
Therefore, since Paul never met Jesus, what proof is there that the voice that Paul encountered on the road to Damascus was not that of Satan?
Hi Tow,
of course you may find it equally hard to disprove the source of the inspiration of Abram and Moses but then we have the sacred writings.
We too would say it is written
We respect and love your treasures but you despise the Christ.Quote (Towshab @ Dec. 19 2007,00:18) Since Christians say Satan is a literal spiritual being, and his whole existence is supposedly dedicated to deceiving, here is a question for you to answer: Paul never met Jesus. Paul often called what he wrote 'my gospel' rather than the gospel of Jesus. Jesus told men to keep the commandments, Paul told them grace was all sufficient.
Therefore, since Paul never met Jesus, what proof is there that the voice that Paul encountered on the road to Damascus was not that of Satan?
Hi Tow:I said I wouldn't reply to your posts any longer, but what you are saying about grace and the Apostle Paul is not true. The following scripture will show that what you are saying is not true:
Quote Romans 6 – Study This Chapter 1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7 For he that is dead is freed F21 from sin. 8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: 9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. 10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. 11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. 12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments F22 of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. 15 WHAT THEN? SHALL WE SIN, BECAUSE WE ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW, BUT UNDER GRACE? GOD FORBID. 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? 17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which F23 was delivered you. 18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. 19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. 20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. 21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. 22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 18 2007,12:09) Hi Tow,
To those who are confused nothing is plain.If you hear his voice no proofs are needed.
Nick,What voice are you hearing? Are you certain that the voice is not from 'satan'? What makes you so sure? Can you trust your judgment alone to discern such things?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 18 2007,12:09) Hi Tow,
To those who are confused nothing is plain.If you hear his voice no proofs are needed.
2Ch 18:20 Then a spirit came forward and stood before the LORD, saying, 'I will entice him.' And the LORD said to him, 'By what means?'
2Ch 18:21 And he said, 'I will go out, and will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.' And he said, 'You are to entice him, and you shall succeed; go out and do so.'Since G-d allowed this one time, why not again? What makes you think that Christianity, which does not agree with Judaism, was not inspired by a 'lying spirit'?
Quote (942767 @ Dec. 18 2007,16:53) Quote (Towshab @ Dec. 19 2007,00:18) Since Christians say Satan is a literal spiritual being, and his whole existence is supposedly dedicated to deceiving, here is a question for you to answer: Paul never met Jesus. Paul often called what he wrote 'my gospel' rather than the gospel of Jesus. Jesus told men to keep the commandments, Paul told them grace was all sufficient.
Therefore, since Paul never met Jesus, what proof is there that the voice that Paul encountered on the road to Damascus was not that of Satan?
Hi Tow:I said I wouldn't reply to your posts any longer, but what you are saying about grace and the Apostle Paul is not true. The following scripture will show that what you are saying is not true:
Quote Romans 6 – Study This Chapter 1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7 For he that is dead is freed F21 from sin. 8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: 9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. 10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. 11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. 12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments F22 of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. 15 WHAT THEN? SHALL WE SIN, BECAUSE WE ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW, BUT UNDER GRACE? GOD FORBID. 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? 17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which F23 was delivered you. 18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. 19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. 20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. 21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. 22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Nothing in Romans 6 supports what you say.Rom 6:7 For one who has died has been set free from sin.
That is pure rubbish, unless you speak of the final death. But you know that Paul means a different death, a death to self. Still, as we live in this life, none are totally free from sin so Paul is a liar here.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 18 2007,13:58) Hi Tow,
of course you may find it equally hard to disprove the source of the inspiration of Abram and Moses but then we have the sacred writings.
We too would say it is written
We respect and love your treasures but you despise the Christ.
So if I write something it is true? Hmm, seems I need to start believing in many strange things since they are written.Yes, I despise the Christ. Christ is a Greek term, not Jewish. Since Christ is supposed to be equivalent to 'moshiach' in Hebrew, why did the Christian Christ not fulfill any meaningful messianic passages?
Hi Tow,
He is the fulfillment of all and since you are not Jewish
you will need to know our miracle working Messiah
as those outside the Law will perish
without reference to it.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 18 2007,23:15) Hi Tow,
He is the fulfillment of all and since you are not Jewish
you will need to know our miracle working Messiah
as those outside the Law will perish
without reference to it.
Please provide evidence for this assertion using Tanakh. GT passages will not suffice unless they agree with Tanakh.Hi Tow,
Jesus, the Christ and Messiah of God, expounded and revealed the OT.
You need to know him or will remain ignorant on important matters.Repetition does not strengthen your claim that Jesus was a messiah. He was certainly not King Messiah because not a single true messianic prophecy came about while he lived. He even had the wrong lineage. The only prophecu Jesus fulfilled was really a warning to YHVH's people:
====================================
Deu 13:1 “If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder,
Deu 13:2 and the sign or wonder that he tells you comes to pass, and if he says, 'Let us go after other gods,' which you have not known, 'and let us serve them,'
Deu 13:3 you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams. For the LORD your God is testing you, to know whether you love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
Deu 13:4 You shall walk after the LORD your God and fear him and keep his commandments and obey his voice, and you shall serve him and hold fast to him.
Deu 13:5 But that prophet or that dreamer of dreams shall be put to death, because he has taught rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt and redeemed you out of the house of slavery, to make you leave the way in which the LORD your God commanded you to walk. So you shall purge the evil from your midst.
====================================Since there is no 'god the father' found in Tanakh, then Jesus was preaching a different god. He never used the real name of G-d, YHVH. No El Shaddai found in the GT either. Thus, this 'god the father' was unknown to the Jews.
Which teacher would that be? If you are speaking of Jesus, then it seems he is no longer Messiah, no longer a savior, but you have now given him the title of 'teacher'. At best, that is what he was.
Hi Tow,
More than just the teacher of truth.
He is:Saviour.
Servant
Monogenes Son
Priest
Messiah
Prophet
Truth
Light
Resurrection.
Life
Firstborn from the dead.
Way.
King.
Prince of peace.
Emmanuel.
Lamb of God.
And more..A man nonetheless and a son of David.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 19 2007,14:05) Hi Tow,
More than just the teacher of truth.
He is:Saviour.
Pagan savior, the Jews and followers of YHVH have only El Shaddai as their savior.
Quote Servant
Monogenes SonOf which god? Jupiter? Jupiter comes from “O father god”.
Quote Priest Pagan priest. He was never anointed as a Jewish priest, neither was he from the established line of priests as commanded by YHVH, the line of Levi.
Quote Messiah Pagan christ. He was never anointed as either priest or king according to Torah.
Quote Prophet Pagan prophet. He never claimed to speak the words of YHVH.
Quote Truth Only to those who believe that fiction is reality.
Quote Light Only according to the pagan book called the 'new testament'.
Quote Resurrection.
Life
Firstborn from the dead.
Way.Again, only supported by the GT.
Quote King. Either in his imagination, or his kingdom consisted of 12 apostles and some disciples. He was never a Hebrew king because he did not have the lineage nor was he anointed.
Quote Prince of peace. Hardly.
Mat 10:34 “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.
Quote Emmanuel. Only according to one witness, and then his name was actually Jesus, not Emmanuel. Immanuel was the son of the prophet Isaiah.
Quote Lamb of God. Only according to the writer John.
Quote And more.. A man nonetheless and a son of David.
He could not be the son of David because he was mamzer with no traceable lineage. Bloodright is passed paternally, and since Jesus was supposed to be born of a virgin, he had no biological father. Therefore, he was not a son of David.You really need to read more of your 'old testament'.
Hi Tow,
Christ, the priest of God, was from the line of Melchizedek.
God appoints priests as He wishes and we do not dictate His will.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 19 2007,14:29) Hi Tow,
Christ, the priest of God, was from the line of Melchizedek.
God appoints priests as He wishes and we do not dictate His will.
No, you are right. HE dictates His will. And Psalm 110:4 does not say that the King Messiah will be in the line of Melchizedek, because (a) according to your GT he has no lineage (b) the correct Hewbrew to English is “The Lord swore and will not repent; you are a priest forever because of the speech of Malchizedek.”Regardless, since Jesus was not a true son of David, the idea behind Psalm 110:4 does not apply. Nor does this:
2Sa 8:18 and Benaiah the son of Jehoiada was over the Cherethites and the Pelethites, and David's sons were priests.
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