Jesus&#39; Name Baptizing?

Participant

Hi WJ:

You say:

Quote

And as you say we are born again by the “Word” the incoruptable seed.

But it seems to me that the “Word” and “Spirit” are synonomous because they are one.

So then our Spirit is born again by the Spirit also.

The Word of God is the spirit of the son which is the life-giving spirit. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God our Father who dwells in us as our helper. They, the Father and the Son are one in the Spirit of holiness. When the Word of God conceives in our heart we are born of water, and when we receive the Holy Ghost we are born of the Spirit.

Quote

15:45
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made * a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

2 John1:9
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

You say:

Quote

Yes I agree that the water is a type of the Word and the Spirit.

We see this in the laver in the Tabernacle which is a type of washing of the word.

The physical part of the laver is a type of the “Word” which carires the “Water” Yet they are one.

Eph 5:26
That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

And as you say we are born again by the “Word” the incoruptable seed.

But it seems to me that the “Word” and “Spirit” are synonomous because they are one.

So then our Spirit is born again by the Spirit also.

Jn 3:5
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Then he clarifys…

Jn 3:That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

His whole conversation with Nicodemus is about being born a human (flesh) and being born again (Spirit).

So could it be read…

Born of…

water – flesh

Jesus does clarify what he is saying for Nicodemus because Jesus was talking about a spiritual rebirth not a natural birth.

Nicodemus questioned,

Quote

3:4
Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can * he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born ?

Jesus answered,

Quote

3:6
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

In other words, you are already born of the flesh. I am not talking about being born of the flesh again.

And then Jesus says,

Quote

3:7
Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
3:8
The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Quote

John 4:12
* Art thou greater than our father Jacob, which gave us the well, and drank thereof * * himself, and his children, and his cattle?
4:13
Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again:
4:14
But whosoever * * drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never * * * thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

God Bless

October 20, 2007 at 6:25 am#68866

Participant

Well this question was once asked…

Acts 19:3
And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism

Well ok so the whole story goes something like this…

Acts (KJV)

2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

My question is…well to be honest I have a couple…

Unto what? Water of Blood.

Baptized in what Blood or Water?

Does water cleanse sins from us? Or is it the Blood of Jesus the Living Christ that cleans sins from us?

Is Blood like 80% water of something like that?

How many times was Water turned to Blood in the Bible?
How many times does water “Resemble” something else in the Bible?

If you could only be baptized one time before you died…would you rather be baptized in a pool of water in the name of Jesus, Or in the Blood of Jesus in the name of Jesus?

Did Jesus command you to be dipped, washed, baptized…in water? Or, his Blood?

Water was before he died.
After he died he Blood gained the power to cleanse all sins.
Blood is thicker than water.

I'm not trying to say anything here really…just some food for thought.

October 20, 2007 at 11:40 am#68872

IM4Truth

Participant

I like to add my two cents. When I was Baptized our Pastor after we were submerged under water and stood there soaking wet, laid Hands on us and we received the Holy Spirit. Years later when We witnessed our Sons Baptism in the Baptist Church, the Pastor did not do so. I ask Him about it later, but He said too, that is the way we do it.
The Day after my Baptism I will never forget. That is now 22 years ago, I was sitting on the sewing machine and things did not go right, so I was cursing over and over again. Each time the Holy Spirit showed me and I was so amazed that it was I that was doing it. I did it with even realizing that I was doing it. It took me a few weeks to overcome that. That is how my walk with Jesus and Gods Holy Spirit began.

Peace and Love Mrs.:D

October 20, 2007 at 12:14 pm#68877

kenrch

Participant

Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 15 2007,18:18)

I have kinda a funny story to share about baptism.

I know what you mean Mandy. Everytime I started to attend a “new denomination” because they had truth others did not. I was aked to be baptized. I asked Why? I have been baptized and received the Holy Spirit. They always said because you need to be baptized into “our” congregation. I Always said I have been baptized into the Holy Spirit and don't think I need to get wet again.

Finally I open my ears and was told.

1Jo 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Praise GOD! Looking back at those years I was like a drunk. But instead of bar hopping I was denominational hopping. :laugh:

October 20, 2007 at 2:10 pm#68882

Participant

Well I'm going to this United Pentecostal Church. Thats why i'm asking all these things.

I plan on staying at this church …unless it comes about at some point that that tell me I need to pray a certain way. Or, need to speak about my GOD and my Jesus and their Holy Spirit in a certain fashion…(or refer to them as one rather). If Jesus Tells me to do that then I most certainly will.

I have went ahead and been re-baptized. “MAINLY” because I was “backslid” and I got saved again. So, I dedicated my life back to the truth …and away from sin. Not because I was thinking their way was better or that I was not going to go to heaven if I did not get baptized. Because I wanted to…not because I had to.

So…i've now been baptized in the curse of my life unto these things:

1.) Water baptism unto the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.

2.) Water baptism unto the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ.

3.) In the Blood of the Lamb…the “PURE WATER” that really cleanses your sins from you.

4.) The Holy Ghost that feels like a Fire burning in your soul and comforts and guides you through your walk with GOD.

So…thats four Baptisms.

The baptism says that I really only “NEEDED” one of those, or maybe its two…I'm still trying to study this and pray for GOD to show me the answer. These two scriptures are giving me some problems. If any of you have some insight to add that would be great!

John 3:3
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Ephesians 4:5
One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

But from what i'm understanding, that this is the baptism that JESUS implemented the very day, second, that he died:

Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and [with] fire:
Mark 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
Luke 3:16 John answered, saying unto [them] all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

I still firmly believe that if you BELIEVE WITH ALL THINE HEART, and pray for Jesus to forgive you of your sins and repent of them. And you really believe that he died on the cross…not just hope that he did…and you ask God to save your soul from damnation by the blood of JESUS CHRIST….man…if you really BELIEVE that and you pray …and CRY OUT with a loud voice to JESUS with a sincere heart. Not just go through the motions of some person telling you to repeat some prayer that they've made up and you just hope they are telling you the right thing to say…NO big fat NO.

CRY OUT TO JESUS …say JESUS HELP ME! Forgive me of my sins !

Some people say that just yelling the name of JESUS don't render anything. I'll tell you what right now….brother…

Next time you pray just try humbling your self as a little baby…and CRY OUT WITH A LOUD VOICE …JESUS! a couple of times. And come back and tell me what happened.
What do you think your gonna do if your at home and your little baby starts screaming at the top of its lungs bloody murder?

Yes…my good brothers and sisters there is POWER in the blood of Jesus, and his very name as well.

I've seen these signs on the back of peoples cars and on billboards and stuff…that say:

TRY JESUS

I think thats wonderful.

October 20, 2007 at 3:52 pm#68885

PatBiglane

Participant

Not3, Mandy, I was blessed to read that you've studied under the Abrahamic Faith Church. Actually, your church is affliated with ours. In fact, several in our church have gone down to the Atlanta Bible College and studied under Anthony B. & Joe M. I could chat more about this, but I don't know if this is the proper place.

October 20, 2007 at 6:33 pm#68887

Participant

Hi Samuel:

I'll try to help with your questions. You say:

Quote

Well this question was once asked…

Acts 19:3
And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism

Well ok so the whole story goes something like this…

Acts (KJV)

2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

John the Baptist baptized in water with the baptism of repentance saying unto the people that they should believe that Jesus was the Messiah, but the Holy Ghost was not yet given until Jesus had experienced death by crucifixion, his burial and resurrection and his ascension into heaven. Water baptism is symbolic of one's union with Jesus in his death, burial and resurrection.

Quote

: Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross

Quote

Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7 For he that is dead is freed F21 from sin. 8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: 9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. 10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. 11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord

We are saved by Faith and water baptism is a work showing that we believe and have repented. It is a symbol that we have died unto sin and we have been raised from the dead by the Holy Ghost even as our Lord was raised from the dead. We are not baptized in the blood, but of course it is the blood that washes away our sins through faith in what God has done for us through our Lord Jesus. Those who had been baptized into the baptism of John and who Paul re-batized in the name of Jesus were re-baptized in water to symbolize their union with Jesus in his death burial and resurrection.

You say:

Quote

Ephesians 4:5
One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

But from what i'm understanding, that this is the baptism that JESUS implemented the very day, second, that he died:

In water baptism being raised from the dead is symbolic of having received the baptism of the Holy Ghost or having been raised from the dead by the Holy Ghost.

Perhaps the following scripture will help understand how this is shown to be “one baptism” when it appears to be two, the baptism in water and the baptism of the Holy Ghost.

Quote

1 John 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and THESE THREE AGREE IN ONE (baptism?).

And you say:

Quote

CRY OUT TO JESUS …say JESUS HELP ME! Forgive me of my sins !

Some people say that just yelling the name of JESUS don't render anything. I'll tell you what right now….brother…

Yes…my good brothers and sisters there is POWER in the blood of Jesus, and his very name as well.

I've seen these signs on the back of peoples cars and on billboards and stuff…that say:

TRY JESUS

I think thats wonderful.

Yes, I agree with you on all of this in fact the following scripture states:

Quote

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Of course, this has to be done in sincerity. If anyone believes what God has done for him through our Lord Jesus, and asks for forgiveness in sincerity, he shall be forgiven.

I hope that I have helped to answer some of your questions, and if there are any others, I can give you my understanding.

God Bless

October 21, 2007 at 9:30 pm#68997

Participant

Ok i'm sorry …and i'll be the first to admit that i'm probably one of the most misunderstood people on the face of this planet.

But I'm not trying to “PROVE” anyone wrong or right. What I am doing is presenting the facts that People have presented to me on certain doctrines and beliefs…for debate.

Thats all. Even if I did believe a certain way …which I do. I would not try to impose that way on you. Thats not my place unless GOD straightway tells me to. I could be wrong. Its a very good possibility that a lot of us are wrong. That a lot of things have been misunderstood over the years…we are talking about a minimum of 2007 years here. Thats quite a lot of time for Man to distort the truth. lol…get 10 Men together in a line and give them 30 seconds and whisper something in ones ear and let the last man in line speak it out loud and see how bad that gets distorted.

All I'm saying is its safe to assume that GOD knew all this was going to happen because he put this in his book:

Revelation 22:18
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

Revelation 22:19
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.

I promise you GOD knows whats going on and whats been going on. And, those people will have to answer for what they've done. I do know thats a truth for sure. The day is approaching, not getting further away…it is growing closer.

October 21, 2007 at 10:00 pm#69000

Participant

Quote (Samuel @ Oct. 22 2007,09:30)

Ok i'm sorry …and i'll be the first to admit that i'm probably one of the most misunderstood people on the face of this planet.

But I'm not trying to “PROVE” anyone wrong or right. What I am doing is presenting the facts that People have presented to me on certain doctrines and beliefs…for debate.

All I'm saying is its safe to assume that GOD knew all this was going to happen because he put this in his book:

Hi Samuel:

I don't understand why you are apologizing, and I am not trying to impose what I believe to be the truth on you, but I can only discuss these subjects with you by giving you my understanding. If it lines up with the scriptures, then it is the truth and if not, I pray that God will correct me because I do not want to teach anything that is not the truth.

Of course, God knows the end result from the beginning and every thing inbetween.

God Bless

October 21, 2007 at 11:20 pm#69012

Participant

I'm saying i'm sorry because i'm getting all sorts of PM's from a certain someone.

That a certain baptism is the one and only way a man is going to be saved and go to heaven.

I'm just pointing out the different types of baptism and the ways they were used…and the era's (Time Frames) in which they were used.

GOD has a way, that things are going to happen, and be done. And man would do good to adhere to that way.

Its quite apparent of my own personal opinion of how “Choppy” the bible seems to be that some people might have tried to obscure the truth from GOD original word over the years. If this was not the case and GOD did not know of it why would he have his spirit inspire one to write about it thousands of years ago?

Seriously. But…the problem is that people don't want the truth. They want to be the ones that are right…they want all the credit for it themselves. I cry every time I pray to GOD. It really saddens my heart and my soul that know that man has been deceived of his word and the truth. How successful Satan has been at deceiving the world of GODs word. I pray for the CHURCH the body of Christ every time I pray just about.

Everyone points the finger at someone or makes a point about what they think is the truth…as to exhault them self. I see it all the time in these conversations…I see it when people “Debate” GODs word. And, they don't even realize it's not neither one of their fault…and that neither one of them is probably right. Its the peoples fault that Distorted the truth way back when, that translated the bible wrong. What if they even threw some of it away? Or Added to it?
“Gah!” people say…such a thing would never have happened.”
Then why would God and Jesus have said that it WOULD happen? And trust me brothers and sisters…it has Indeed happened.

So…your best hope is to pray to GOD. And read the word …and pray that if some of it has been taken out or added too he will show you of these cases. Don't take that Bible you have that man has put their hands on and distorted in their translations…that some probably did not even have the Holy Spirit there with them to guide them through the translations of such.
Some Harvard scholar…that don't have the holy spirit to help them. Thats as bad as some scientist trying to prove we are all monkeys.

You should do much praying and fasting..and more praying and fasting and praying and fasting before you try to point out whats right and wrong to someone. Cause its going to take it. It really is.

I myself have been trying to fast …i'm having a very very hard time with it…I'll jump up and eat breakfast before I even realize it. But when I get it down I feel that GOD is going to show me some things.

October 22, 2007 at 6:39 am#69032

Not3in1

Participant

Quote (PatBiglane @ Oct. 21 2007,03:52)

Hi Pat,

I chatted with Anthony on the phone not too long ago, he is a lovely English man. I love listening to his accent.

I have most of his books/teachings and I just can't find anything wrong with what he offers. One of our brother's went down to their conference and shared. I heard it was a great time in the Lord. I have wanted to take some online courses from the bible college. I've actually contacted them twice, but life is just so busy for me right now.

The Abrahamic Faith fellowship just broke up. Now a little group meets almost an hour away from me…..that makes it difficult to meet regularly. I'm praying for another fellowship nearby. I may even see about starting one, I don't know? I long for fellowship.

October 22, 2007 at 6:45 am#69034

Not3in1

Participant

Brother Sam,

I've been enjoying your posts. I believe that God knows your heart and your desire to please him.

Without faith it is impossible to please God. I guess we need to have faith that his word is true, and that if some parts are missing or translated incorrectly, that God's holy spirit will teach us what we need to know. If we earnestly seek him…..we will be rewarded.

God bless you in your seeking him out. Our Father loves you, brother. I'm sure he is very proud of you for trying to deny yourself to please him. I know that it encourages my heart to see brother's worshipping and seeking…….

Love to you and yours,
Mandy

October 23, 2007 at 6:09 pm#69163

Participant

Hey Mandy,

I'll be praying for your desire to start or find a fellowship in your area. By theway, I changed my username (as you can see).

942- I've really enjoyed reading and considering your recent posts. Thanks for your insights on John 3 and baptism.

It makes sense in what you are saying about being born of the water, inferring that it is being born of the Word. This concept of the Word being the seed [as you showed in I Peter] is also carried through in the Parable or the Sower:

“the seed is the Word of God. Those by the wayside are those who have heard; then cometh the devil and takes away the word that was sown in their heart…” – Luke 8:11 & ff.

After reading and thinking about John 3 a bit more, some additional insights came to my mind that I thought I'd share with and anyone reading this. I'd like to hear what your take is on this stuff.

In his opening dialogue with Jesus, I think Nicodemas makes an interesting compliment – if not, a high one – to Jesus in saying, “God is with you”. Years ago, I did a study on the significance of this phrase [along with “I am with you, and: “the LORD is with you”]. Basically, I traced its usages back to the book of Genesis beginning with the Abrahamic Covenant (and its passing on to Issac and Jacob). I also traced it throughout other sections of scripture where this phrase is used to encourage Moses, Joshua, the judges, etc. and then on through to the NT. (If you have never done this, I highly recommend taking the time to do it; there's some great insights in understanding what's being implied in this encouraging phrase.)

In essence, this is what I found in this study: Among other the reasons, this phrase provides tremendous encouragement because it is often used in connection with the covenant name of God, Yahweh. When God says, “I am with you”, in essence, what He is saying is that I am with you because I want you to be a partaker of the covenant that I made with Abraham. (I believe that the Jews at this time understood that the Abrahamic Covenant was the very foundation of all the succesive covenants God made with His people .

Included in the substantial list of promises He gave to His people (beginning with the Abrahamic Covenant) is the promise of everlasting life. The first time this promise is made is in Genesis 13:14-17: “Now lift up your eyes and look from the place where you are, northward and southward, and eastward and westward; for all the land which you see, I will give to you [Abraham] and to your descendants forever.”

I think the praise Nicodemas is extending to Jesus is along these lines: “Rabbi [teacher], we know that you are a teacher come from God [you've been enlightened and are a “sent one” , commissioned by God], and have been doing these awesome signs because GOD IS WITH YOU.

Jesus takes this compliment and raises the bar to a truer perspective. In essence, his response is: “unless you are born from above [born again] (which is the greater attainment than merely being one who is commisioned from above), you shall not see the Kingdom of God.”

Note: The term: “Kingdom of God' was understood by the Jews as being this time period when God will plant His people in the geographical area that He pointed out Abraham, so that they will never be removed again. (Jesus wasn't kidding when he said: “The meek will inherit the earth”.)

October 23, 2007 at 6:34 pm#69166

Participant

Also, bear in mind, even though God has made awesome promises to His people (that is, to Abraham's seed [whether direct descendants, or those who are of faith], it's all by Grace.

On two occassions, the angelic greeting to Mary included that fact that she had found favor with God. The basis of her being encouraged was that “The Lord was with her” which is also equal to the saying: “Thou hast found favor with God” in Luke 1:27-31.

October 23, 2007 at 8:19 pm#69175

Participant

A question about interpretation: John Chapter 3.

Jesus fully expected Nicodemas to understand what he was saying about being born again in this section of scripture; in fact, he was surprised that Nicodemas didn't. What did Nicodemas have to go on in order for him to understand the concepts that Jesus was articulating? At that time, I do not think he any of the New Testament books of the Bible that we have today. So, I'm assuming he only thing he had to go on was the writings of the Hebrew scriptures [ called the Old Testament].

On account of this, I wonder if the understanding that Jesus expected Nicodemas to have we also should be able to glean by study and prayerful consideration of the OT? I'm not saying that we shouldn't consult the NT for additional insight, but it seems pretty plain to me that if Jesus expected Nicodemas to know and understand these things according to the revelation of truth found in the Old Testament, perhaps this is the place we should go first in order to understand these concepts.

I believe we can get this understanding, and in my next few posts, I'm going to attempt to explain verses out of Ezekial, Isaiah, and other places that I believe allude to the new birth.

October 23, 2007 at 9:31 pm#69180

Participant

Hi gladtidings:

Thanks for your input. Looking forward to your understanding relative to this subject from the Old Testament.

God Bless

October 24, 2007 at 1:15 am#69201

Worshipping Jesus

Participant

Hey guys!

This thread is for the subject…

Jesus' Name Baptizing?, Right or Wrong?

October 24, 2007 at 2:30 am#69204

Participant

942 & Anybody else interested participating in the recent posts about John chapter 3 (concerning being born again).

WJ has a point…It looks like this post topic has become unrelated to baptism, so, I moving my next few postings over the the “scripture & doctrine section dealing with covenants… Hope to see you there!

October 24, 2007 at 2:32 am#69205