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I agree with that line of reasoning David.
Jesus was a messenger of God who brought the “good news”.
I believe that Jesus was the angel of lord that said in the burning bush “I AM”.
He was the word of God.
He was that messenger that revealed the invisible God to the patriarchs. Just as he revealed his father when he incarnated as the man Christ.
Jesus is the only begotten (monogenes-unique) Son of God.
My disagreement is that he is Michael the Archangel. I don't believe Michael is unique nor do I believe he is the exact image of the Father.
Michael is one of the four archangels before the throne, one of the four archangels that ezekiel saw.
Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, Phaneul
Quote I believe that Jesus was the angel of lord WHAT? YOU DARE CALL JESUS AN ANGEL! Just kidding, Mercy.
Quote My disagreement is that he is Michael the Archangel.
Well, yes, the book of enoch. I understand why you would think that.Quote Michael is one of the four archangels before the throne, one of the four archangels that ezekiel saw. Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, Phaneul
What do you mean?Actually, before we go any further, you believe that Jesus is called an “angel” in scripture?
Could you please explain that to Nick. He stopped reading anything I have said about 5 pages back. I know he isn't reading what I say because he fails to answer every question I ask.
Could you please explain to Nick why Jesus could definitely without question be considered an angel.thanks.
dave
Quote I agree that angel means messenger. Angels are also called sons of God as we are.
–t8
Nick, t8 says that “angel” means “messenger.”
Angels are also called sons of God, as we are. But we are not spirit creatures. Both Jesus and the angels are sons of God. Both have spirit bodies. If that word that is translated “messenger” or “angel” were to be applied to us, it would be translated “messenger,” and is in the Bible.
Quote From what I can determine, angels can refer to man, seraphim, cherubim, and perhaps other hosts of heaven.
Yes, the word translated as “angel” has a very broad meaning. I agree. It is foolish to limit that word based on unbiblical preconceptions.Quote However in the gospels we see parallel accounts of angels being called men.
While the word translated “angel” and the word translated “messenger” are the exact same word, I believe that the “two men” who were gleaming “like lightning” weren't actually men. Yes, they took on the form of man. And yes, they appeared as men to those who saw them. But the Bible makes clear that they were “angels.” When ever your Bible translates that word as “angels” it referes to spirit creatures.But your thought about angels referring to “man, seraphim, cherubim, and perhaps other hosts of heaven,” makes me wonder what other hosts of heaven you refer to?
t8?
angel = messenger
with that deffinition it's obvious.
but referring to seraphim, cherubim, malakim, wheels, thrones, dominions, principalities and powers that is a different story.
t8, stated in the “angel of the Lord” thread:
“The word angel means 'messenger' and is not always referring to cherub. The Angel of the Lord literally means messenger of the LORD. The word 'messenger' is used to describe what we know to be cherubs & seraphs, but also Christ, and prophets too.”
And t8 again:
In fact, since the word for angel means “messenger” it is used to describe people on earth who are messengers. For example, Haggai and John the Baptist were called messengers or “angels” of the Lord because they spoke for Him
Did Jesus speak for God Nick? Don't answer that. It's detrimental to your beliefs.Hi david,
2Kings 6
” 31Then he said, God do so and more also to me, if the head of Elisha the son of Shaphat shall stand on him this day.32But Elisha sat in his house, and the elders sat with him; and the king sent a man from before him: but ere the messenger came to him, he said to the elders, See ye how this son of a murderer hath sent to take away mine head? look, when the messenger cometh, shut the door, and hold him fast at the door: is not the sound of his master's feet behind him?
33And while he yet talked with them, behold, the messenger came down unto him: and he said, Behold, this evil is of the LORD; what should I wait for the LORD any longer?”
Speaking of this messemger;
Was this a man
or
an angel
or
Jesus?Ok, t8's next words are quite interesting:
(still from the “angel of the Lord” thread, page 1)Malachi 3:1
1 “See, I will send my messenger, who will prepare the way before me. Then suddenly the Lord you are seeking will come to his temple; the messenger of the covenant, whom you desire, will come,” says the LORD Almighty.Almost without exception this passage has been interpreted to refer to two messengers – John the Baptist as the first messenger (or angel) “preparing the way” and the Lord Jesus Christ as the second “messenger (or angel) of the covenant”.
“Almost without exception this passage has been interpreted to refer to…Jesus Christ as the second 'messenger (or angel) of the covenant.” ? ? ?
Nick keeps making it seem like I'm the only one on the planet suggesting that Jesus could be described as an angel. He uses words like “fantasies,” and “butterflies” to describe my beliefs, in an attempt to belittle me, without actually proving me wrong. It's a sad approach.david
Quote Hi david,
2Kings 6
” 31Then he said, God do so and more also to me, if the head of Elisha the son of Shaphat shall stand on him this day.32But Elisha sat in his house, and the elders sat with him; and the king sent a man from before him: but ere the messenger came to him, he said to the elders, See ye how this son of a murderer hath sent to take away mine head? look, when the messenger cometh, shut the door, and hold him fast at the door: is not the sound of his master's feet behind him?
33And while he yet talked with them, behold, the messenger came down unto him: and he said, Behold, this evil is of the LORD; what should I wait for the LORD any longer?”
Speaking of this messemger;
Was this a man
or
an angel
or
Jesus?I didn't read the above, and won't until you actually make me believe you read anything I've written recently.
DAVID
The administrator t8's further words in that post:
So it seems messengers are angels whether they are man, son of God, cherub, or seraph. Therefore it seems entirely possible (but not conclusive) in this context that Jesus could have been the Angel of the LORD, as he is the messenger of the LORD and the Word of God.
“It seems entirely possible (but not conclusive) in this context that Jesus could have been the Angel of the LORD.”
What do you think of that Nick? Actually, I stopped caring what you say on this topic, because you don't actually try to talk to me about this. You just belittle.
One last thing on t8's post that is relative. He quotes a website which says:
I think it is unfortunate that the Greek word for messenger — “angel” — has become fastened onto our English vocabulary. For most people an angel is a supernatural being with wings. What has happened is that human messengers or prophets have become confused with messengers on short-term assignments from heaven, whether spirit-beings or resurrected personages. A whole mythology has developed about “angels” over the millennia which has not only separated them from mortal human beings but put wings on their backs also!
I've tried to explain this to Nick. In his mind, angels are things that have wings and float around God. In Nick's mind, all the “pictures” he's seen of Jesus with the long beard don't have him wearing wings. Therefore, Jesus can't be called an angel. This can all really be traced back to Nick's childhood. (I won't discuss Nick's childhood in length, as he considers that “private.”)
Quote sigh –Nick.
Ok, I read that post Nick.
“Sigh” is where I was with you several pages ago. For a time I thought you may actually have been reading some of my posts. Then, I started sighing.
The point I wanted to bring out from the author was that when we in the English speaking world hear the word angel, we think one thing, i.e., a cherub or seraph. However the reality is that the word has more uses than that. It is also used in reference to prophets, John, and Jesus. There is no point in pretending otherwise, is there?
–T8's words to you Nick, on page 3 of the “angel of the Lord” thread.
That word can be applied to Jesus Nick. As t8 says: There's no point in pretending otherwise, is there?
“However the reality is that the word has more uses than that. It is also used in reference to prophets, John, and Jesus. There is no point in pretending otherwise, is there?
Nick, I just wanted to repeat t8's words to you in case you didn't read that last thread.
Nothing personal. I just don't believe you read most of what I write.
david
Hi david,
This is a forum.
People bring their ideas here and share them.
The facilitators are not obliged to read or agree or disagree with anything written but just to allow them to be aired for the public to see.
We do that.
Did you want more from us?t8 again, in that other thread, expresses my exact thoughts towards Nick a couple days ago, on this subject:
T8 to Nick:
“I am a little surprised by your reaction. This particular discussion is not a teaching but a search. If it is fired down straight away, then how are we suppose to foster a 'seek and you will find' environment?”
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