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Quote Please show evidence with verses and find supporting scriptures to confirm as you taught us to do. T8 already did. I quoted him. Which verse to you disagree with? Have you even read the verses he commented on?
Quote Hi david,
Since not one scripture supports the JW dogma that Jesus is Michael why do you defend it?
Although no verse specifically says “Micahel is Jesus” many verses show that this has to be the case. Otherwise, there would be contradictions. And we know there are no Bible contradictions Nick, remember.Anyway, go back and attempt to answer some of my questions. That would be a good starting place.
Quote Anyway, go back and attempt to answer some of my questions. That would be a good starting place. https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=17;t=1299;st=350;r=1;&#entry160859
Quote Hi david,
So like the trinity doctrine if it appeals to someone's logic it is true.Hi NICK.
Believe Satan is a good guy if you like, but I tend to think he's the bad one.Hi david,
If you could show one verse that says Jesus is Michael we might believe that you hold scripture higher than you hold the Watchtower.Doesn't make sense does it?
And it paints you in a bad light, doesn't it?You are a master at that technique. I think I shall pick up the crazy hat and jump on your bandwagon. It's much more fun than actually discussing scripture or having discussions.
Quote Hi david,
If you could show one verse that says Jesus is Michael we might believe that you hold scripture higher than you hold the Watchtower.Show me one verse that says “the lake of fire means eternal torture” and I'll show you a verse that says “Michael is another name for Jesus.”
Deal?
Hi david
So what you offered as a way of finding truth was just a sham?
If the Watchtower decrees it toe the line.
Only 144,000 placesHI Nick,
I'm glad you've conceded that you were wrong and that T8 (and the Bible) are correct.
(Making stuff up is fun.)Hi david,
So you dare not submit this idea to your test.
Is that because it cannot be wrong in your view?Remember this page Nick?
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….;st=470
I gave you every opportunity to discuss this with you. In fact, I wanted to start, not with any of my arguments, but with your only real argument–that Jesus isn't an angel. BUT, and here's what is the truth–You cannot discuss things. You are incapable of it. You are unwilling to answer any questions. You probably don't even read my posts. And most of your posts are in no way related to what we are discussing.
I've begged you to answer questions, and to actually attempt to have a discussion. Why not answer questions? What are you afraid of?Hi david,
Let's see your first verse that says Jesus is an angel and we will then look for supporting verses.
You showed us how to find truth.
Let's go looking.Otherwise let the unsupported notion die.
Quote (david @ Feb. 16 2009,16:38) Quote (david @ Feb. 16 2009,04:22) Nick, I'd rather discuss this here, in the main thread. 3 others have been started all exactly the same. I prefer to have one large thread than several little threads all discussing the same thing. I though we could start with T8's point above. Is T8 wrong?
So, we have a better idea what he is saying, let's look at the full context:
“We know that Jesus is not and angel because we are told just that in Hebrews.”–Kerwin.
T8 responds:
“Actually that is an assumption on your part.First off, it says to which of the angels, and then points to the son. This can equally be read as him not being an angel and being an angel too. Try reading it with the understanding that he is an angel and it also makes sense.
Secondly scripture calls Jesus an angel.
Malachi 3:1
“See, I will send my messenger, who will prepare the way before me. Then suddenly the Lord you are seeking will come to his temple; the messenger of the covenant, whom you desire, will come,” says the LORD Almighty.Almost without exception this passage has been interpreted to refer to two messengers – John the Baptist as the first messenger (or angel) “preparing the way” and the Lord Jesus Christ as the second “messenger (or angel) of the covenant”. It is also quoted in Matt.11:10.
NOTE: The word for angel (messenger) in the OT is mal'ak {mal-awk'} – hence Malachi.
Matthew 11:10-15,
“This is he, of whom it is written, 'Behold, I send My messenger before Your face, who shall prepare Your way before You'.John 13:16
I tell you the truth, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him.The reality here is that the word 'angel' means 'messenger' and Jesus and John were both messengers. Messengers can be men, cherub, seraph, or whatever God chooses. More often than not, translators use the word “angel” when it is a being from heaven, and messenger when it is a “man” – hence why we usually think that all angels are always beings from heaven.”
Then, in his next post, he says:
“Hi Nick.The word angel in the OT is {mal-awk}. This word is applied to men and heavenly beings. That is my point. So in the usage of that word, Jesus is indeed an angel {mal-awk}.
I have never taught that Jesus is a cherub or seraph, so in reference to them being called messengers, I am not lumping Jesus in that group.”
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….3;st=10I thought we could begin with this thought as it is the only apparent “contradiction” of believing Michael is another name for Jesus. As T8 points out, it is based on an “assumption.”
Is T8 wrong Nick?
(I underlined it for you so you could see it and answer it. I know you won't.)david
No response from Nick.
You didn't respond the first, second, or third time I posted this. How about now?Nick, what is an angel (Malawk)?
You believe it is one form of being. In your mind Malawk is one being, God is one being, Jesus is a completely different form of being, humans are different forms of beings.
But since both humans and spirits are called Malawk, can this be true? What is a malawk?
May I come in here. It is said that Jesus came forth from the Father while everything else was created by Jesus that incudes that He created the Angels. He is not an angels. He is the Son of God directly from the Father. The firstborn of creation. After that all other were created, through Him and for Him by the power of God the Father of all.
Peace and Love IreneQuote He is not an angels. He is the Son of God directly from the Father. Cindy, may I ask you (Nick refuses to answer this):
Does being the “Son of God directly” mean in itself that you cannot be called a “malwakh”? Are the two incompatible in some way I don't understand?
Both humans and spirits are called malwakh.
It seems many act as if “malwakh” were some form of being. It is not. It is a word that essentially means “messenger.” When the Bible is speaking of spirit messengers, it is usually translated “angel.” But they are the exact same word.
Quote It is said that Jesus came forth from the Father while everything else was created by Jesus that incudes that He created the Angels. Can you think of it this way:
God created Adam. Adam essentially created the rest of mankind. Does this mean Adam is not a man?
Adam is very different and special. But he is still one of us. Him being the first does not make him outside of our class of beings.Or how about this. I used to watch star trek. Data is an android. If Data created an army of androids, someone could ask–Who created the androids? The answer would be “Data.” But wait, Data is an android you say. My response would be: “So?”
(Obviously, we understand that Data did not create himself. But the response would still be “Data created the androids.”)
And sure, “Data” would be unique in that he was created by a human. He was the first. But, my question to you: “Does that mean he is another class of being, as the other androids?”The truth is, that Hebrew word (and the Greek) do not describe a class of being. We KNOW this, because that word is used to describe both humans and spirits.
I'm wondering how you would comment to this, Cindy?
Hi David,
You are far from the subject of the thread which is the claim by JWs that Michael is Jesus.
You cannot find any verses to support it and perhaps that is why you drifted away.
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