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Ed J, the those which are honestly seeking the truth will read and search with all their hearts, for they are desiring to know, and are tired of their preachers, their systems of theology, are tired of being given the same old excuses.
These posts are primarily for them. They lurk, they read, they find later on even as the Holy Spirit brings to their remembrance that which they only glanced at before.
I know, it worked that way for me. Testimony.
Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 01 2012,07:34) Hi AWHN, Thomas eventually recognized that YHVH was in Jesus!
John 14:5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest;
and how can we know the way? (Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and
put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe. (John 20:25)John 10:38: But if I do, though ye believe not me,
believe the works: that ye may know,
and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.THOMAS FINALLY BELIEVED THE WORKS OF YHVH! (John 20:29)
John 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me,
thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed J you simply did not read… that was explained. See what I mean, you just fufilled your own definition of insanity and fulfilled what you said I do, but rather yourself has just done.Quote (AWHN @ Dec. 01 2012,07:31) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 01 2012,07:28) Quote (AWHN @ Dec. 01 2012,07:04) Hi Mr. Timothy VI, It really is not that long, compared with actual research papers and articles in journals, like Nature, Science, etc. There is no time limit in which you or any have to complete its reading.
I must say that this is always one of the very first two things which are used as an excuse to not so read…
…'color' and 'length'. And I have been on many forums and the excuses [but this is what it is] are always the same.
Hi AWHN,Are you suggesting that these are not valid reasons?
If everyone is telling you the same thing, why not change your presentation?“Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.” – Albert Einstein
God bless
Ed J
…because Ed J, I have, and it matters not, in multiple forums. The excuses still exist and presist. Even here, it is already manifested.The same definition by Albert Einstien has also been quoted at me, and yet they never seem to think their own posts [which I have told them beforehand what they would do] are fitting their own definition.
Hi AWHN,You have to ask yourself:
would you rather feel like a big shot in your own mind?
…or would you rather stoop down and help others to know the truth …THIS, MY FRIEND, IS YOUR CHOICE!“Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things,
but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.” – The Apostle Paul“I Shaool say, (for a man) not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think” – The Apostle Paul
It is your choice if you want to believe (Shaool) the Apostle Paul or not. (Romans 12:16) (Romans 12:3)
B'shem, יהוה (YÄ-hä-vā)
עד (Ed) (Joshua 22:34)Quote (AWHN @ Dec. 01 2012,07:36) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 01 2012,07:34) Hi AWHN, Thomas eventually recognized that YHVH was in Jesus!
John 14:5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest;
and how can we know the way? (Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and
put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe. (John 20:25)John 10:38: But if I do, though ye believe not me,
believe the works: that ye may know,
and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.THOMAS FINALLY BELIEVED THE WORKS OF YHVH! (John 20:29)
John 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me,
thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed J you simply did not read… that was explained. See what I mean, you just fufilled your own definition of insanity and fulfilled what you said I do, but rather yourself has just done.
Why don't you give what YOU believe is the most important point, and we will begin our discussion there; OK?Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 01 2012,07:56) David says that you are unwilling to discuss things with us, is he correct?
Please go to Genesis 1:1 with me since it is the very beginning of the Scriptures. It will set the stage and definition, for the entirety of the Bible, for it is the very first time the word is used.There are multiples of 3 in this single text.
Here is that text, in both Hebrew and Greek, with and without notiation.
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Genesis 1:1
Gen 1:1 בראשׁית ברא אלהים את השׁמים ואת הארץ׃
Gen 1:1 בראשׁיתH7225 בראH1254 אלהיםH430 אתH853 השׁמיםH8064 ואתH853 הארץ׃H776
Gen 1:1 Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἐποίησεν ὁ θεὸς τὸν οὐρανὸν καὶ τὴν γῆν.
Gen 1:1 ενG1722 PREP αρχηG746 N-DSF εποιησενG4160 V-AAI-3S οG3588 T-NSM θεοςG2316 N-NSM τονG3588 T-ASM ουρανονG3772 N-ASM καιG2532 CONJ την 3588 T-ASF γηνG1065 N-ASF
I will simply ask one question with two parts.
Is the Hebrew word for “God” in Genesis 1:1, in the Plural or Singluar, and if Plural is it in the Plural Dual or Plural Triple forms?
I am willing to discuss.
Quote (AWHN @ Dec. 01 2012,07:35) Ed J, the those which are honestly seeking the truth will read and search with all their hearts, for they are desiring to know, and are tired of their preachers, their systems of theology, are tired of being given the same old excuses. These posts are primarily for them. They lurk, they read, they find later on even as the Holy Spirit brings to their remembrance that which they only glanced at before.
I know, it worked that way for me. Testimony.
Hi AWHN,Keep telling yourself that the reason no-one is reading your posts is because they want to remain ignorant of the truth.
It is a self-delusion to say to yourself: see I was right, they are not interested in the truth, just as I have suspected.You can ask David all about self-delusion, he has studied it you know.
These verse needs repeating:
“Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things,
but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.” – The Apostle Paul“I Shaool say, (for a man) not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think” – The Apostle Paul
As your Christian brother I ask you so change from your self-righteous attitude,
and take the advice that everyone is apparently giving you. (See Genesis 2:16)“And the LORD God commanded [AWHN], saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (in the midst of the Garden), thou shalt not eat of it:
for in the day that thou eatest thereof (of a self-righteousness attatude) thou shalt surely die.”The systems of religion and traditions of men communicate… (See Col.2:22)
distortions of truth, confusion of mind, and distractions of spirit. (and Rev.18:4-5)Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Dec. 01 2012,08:39) Hi AWHN, Keep telling yourself that the reason no-one is reading your posts is because they want to remain ignorant of the truth…
*sigh*, the previous post Ed J?It is short, only 175 words, or 965 characters, with no color.
Quote (AWHN @ Dec. 01 2012,08:36) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 01 2012,07:56) David says that you are unwilling to discuss things with us, is he correct?
Please go to Genesis 1:1 with me since it is the very beginning of the Scriptures. It will set the stage and definition, for the entirety of the Bible, for it is the very first time the word is used.There are multiples of 3 in this single text.
Here is that text, in both Hebrew and Greek, with and without notiation.
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Genesis 1:1
Gen 1:1 בראשׁית ברא אלהים את השׁמים ואת הארץ׃
Gen 1:1 בראשׁיתH7225 בראH1254 אלהיםH430 אתH853 השׁמיםH8064 ואתH853 הארץ׃H776
Gen 1:1 Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἐποίησεν ὁ θεὸς τὸν οὐρανὸν καὶ τὴν γῆν.
Gen 1:1 ενG1722 PREP αρχηG746 N-DSF εποιησενG4160 V-AAI-3S οG3588 T-NSM θεοςG2316 N-NSM τονG3588 T-ASM ουρανονG3772 N-ASM καιG2532 CONJ την 3588 T-ASF γηνG1065 N-ASF
I will simply ask one question with two parts.
Is the Hebrew word for “God” in Genesis 1:1, in the Plural or Singluar, and if Plural is it in the Plural Dual or Plural Triple forms?
I am willing to discuss.
Hi AWHN,Trinity and non-Trinity, can both views be correct? (Link)
If you are pushing “The Trinity”(148), why not then go to the appropriate thread?
But we can discuss it here, if it
will make you fell better about yourself.[אלהים] ĔL-ō-Hêêm(63) is a reference to “YHVH”(63); and
it's the plural of the word [אל] ĔL meaning the eternal existing one.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (AWHN @ Dec. 01 2012,08:53) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 01 2012,08:39) Hi AWHN, Keep telling yourself that the reason no-one is reading your posts is because they want to remain ignorant of the truth…
*sigh*, the previous post Ed J?It is short, only 175 words, or 965 characters, with no color.
Size, not color is the issue.
Too many colors just make you look mental.Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 01 2012,09:09) Quote (AWHN @ Dec. 01 2012,08:36) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 01 2012,07:56) David says that you are unwilling to discuss things with us, is he correct?
Please go to Genesis 1:1 with me since it is the very beginning of the Scriptures. It will set the stage and definition, for the entirety of the Bible, for it is the very first time the word is used.There are multiples of 3 in this single text.
Here is that text, in both Hebrew and Greek, with and without notiation.
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Genesis 1:1
Gen 1:1 בראשׁית ברא אלהים את השׁמים ואת הארץ׃
Gen 1:1 בראשׁיתH7225 בראH1254 אלהיםH430 אתH853 השׁמיםH8064 ואתH853 הארץ׃H776
Gen 1:1 Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἐποίησεν ὁ θεὸς τὸν οὐρανὸν καὶ τὴν γῆν.
Gen 1:1 ενG1722 PREP αρχηG746 N-DSF εποιησενG4160 V-AAI-3S οG3588 T-NSM θεοςG2316 N-NSM τονG3588 T-ASM ουρανονG3772 N-ASM καιG2532 CONJ την 3588 T-ASF γηνG1065 N-ASF
I will simply ask one question with two parts.
Is the Hebrew word for “God” in Genesis 1:1, in the Plural or Singluar, and if Plural is it in the Plural Dual or Plural Triple forms?
I am willing to discuss.
Hi AWHN,Trinity and non-Trinity, can both views be correct?
If you are pushing “The Trinity” … , why not then go to the appropriate thread?
But we can discuss it here, if it
will make you fell better about yourself.[אלהים] ĔL-ō-Hêêm is a reference to “YHVH”; and
it's the plural of the word [אל] ĔL meaning the eternal existing one.God bless
Ed J
Ed J,You answered the first part of the question, “Is the Hebrew word for “God” in Genesis 1:1, in the Plural or Singluar, and if Plural is it in the Plural Dual or Plural Triple forms?”, by saying, “ĔL-ō-Hêêm … it's the plural of the word ĔL …”, but where is the reply to the second part of the question. Since the first part is clearly given in the affirmative, that yes the word is in the “Plural”, now will you please direct your attention to answering the second part of the question. “…is it in the Plural Dual or Plural Triple forms?”
As a sidenote [as I am looking forward to the answer to the second part of the question previously asked, since we are looking to discuss here]:
As for the original part, speaking of the other “multiples of 3”, there are also within that very text, a reference to:
…”beginning” which deals with Time, which has [1] Past, [2] Present, [3] Future
…and then there is the reference to the “Heavens”, which is Space having [1] Length, [2] Depth, [3] Height
…and then there is the refernce to the “earth”, which is Matter consisting of [1] Solid, [2] Liquid, [3] Gas.
…and there is also two Heavens [plural dual] created in Genesis 1, the atmosphere [birds fly in] and the greater space [sun moon stars dwell in] we can see from this earth, and the “Third Heaven” [as Paul later also mentions] is where God was dwelling from His eternal Throne along with all of the Angels… and thus Three Heavens are also seen.
…and more…
Quote (AWHN @ Dec. 02 2012,14:11) Ed J, You answered the first part of the question, “Is the Hebrew word for “God” in Genesis 1:1, in the Plural or Singluar, and if Plural is it in the Plural Dual or Plural Triple forms?”, by saying, “ĔL-ō-Hêêm … it's the plural of the word ĔL …”, but where is the reply to the second part of the question. Since the first part is clearly given in the affirmative, that yes the word is in the “Plural”, now will you please direct your attention to answering the second part of the question. “…is it in the Plural Dual or Plural Triple forms?”
Hi AWHN,I don't know? …but if I had to guess,
I'd say it was in the “Quintuple Plural Form“.Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHi AWHN, let's try to be a bit more complete here, OK?
Quote (AWHN @ Dec. 02 2012,14:11) …”beginning” which deals with Time, which has [1] Past, [2] Present, [3] Future
[1] Past, [2] Present, [3] Future, [4] Outside of Time (See God)Quote (AWHN @ Dec. 02 2012,14:11) …and then there is the reference to the “Heavens”, which is Space having [1] Length, [2] Depth, [3] Height
[1] Length, [2] Depth, [3] Height, [4] Breadth (See Eph 3:18)Quote (AWHN @ Dec. 02 2012,14:11) …and then there is the refernce to the “earth”, which is Matter consisting of [1] Solid, [2] Liquid, [3] Gas.
[1] Solid, [2] Liquid, [3] Gas, [4] Plasma (See Chart)
Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Dec. 02 2012,17:12) Hi AWHN, let's try to be a bit more complete here, OK? Quote (AWHN @ Dec. 02 2012,14:11) …”beginning” which deals with Time, which has [1] Past, [2] Present, [3] Future
[1] Past, [2] Present, [3] Future, [4] Outside of Time (See God)Quote (AWHN @ Dec. 02 2012,14:11) …and then there is the reference to the “Heavens”, which is Space having [1] Length, [2] Depth, [3] Height
[1] Length, [2] Depth, [3] Height, [4] Breadth (See Eph 3:18)Quote (AWHN @ Dec. 02 2012,14:11) …and then there is the refernce to the “earth”, which is Matter consisting of [1] Solid, [2] Liquid, [3] Gas.
[1] Solid, [2] Liquid, [3] Gas, [4] Plasma (See Chart)Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J
Simple question, and yet it is not being answered…Is the Hebrew word for “God” in Genesis 1:1, in the Plural or Singluar, and if Plural is it in the Plural Dual or Plural Triple forms?
I'll wait.
I knew that the second part would be bitten…
Plasma is just another form [ionized, and superheated] of Gas [various particles], not a 4th state, just as there are various forms of ice [solid]:
“In physics and chemistry, plasma (from Greek πλάσμα, “anything formed”[1]) is a state of matter similar to gas in which a certain portion of the particles is ionized. …” – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_%28physics%29
God is in eternity Past, the every moment Now [Present] and the Eternity Future.
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. Hebrews 13:8
“Breadth” means “to what great extent” in the three dimensions, Length, Depth, Height, see the greek word, “platos”, and is not some strange 4th dimension.
Back to the original second part of the question please.
Hi AWHN,
I don't know? …but if I had to guess,
I'd say it was in the “Quintuple Plural Form“.Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHi AWHN, let's try to be a bit more complete here, OK?
Quote (AWHN @ Dec. 02 2012,19:04) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 02 2012,17:12) Quote (AWHN @ Dec. 02 2012,14:11) …”beginning” which deals with Time, which has [1] Past, [2] Present, [3] Future
[1] Past, [2] Present, [3] Future, [4] Outside of Time (See God)
God is in eternity Past, the every moment Now [Present] and the Eternity Future.
God exists outside of time as well as inside of time.Quote (AWHN @ Dec. 02 2012,19:04) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 02 2012,17:12) Quote (AWHN @ Dec. 02 2012,14:11) …and then there is the reference to the “Heavens”, which is Space having [1] Length, [2] Depth, [3] Height
[1] Length, [2] Depth, [3] Height, [4] Breadth (See Eph 3:18)
“Breadth” means “to what great extent” in the three dimensions, Length, Depth, Height, see the greek word, “platos”, and is not some strange 4th dimension
False; breadth simply means width; depth, however, means to fully understand the scope of whats on the inside.Quote (AWHN @ Dec. 02 2012,19:04) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 02 2012,17:12) Quote (AWHN @ Dec. 02 2012,14:11) …and then there is the refernce to the “earth”, which is Matter consisting of [1] Solid, [2] Liquid, [3] Gas.
[1] Solid, [2] Liquid, [3] Gas, [4] Plasma (See Chart)
Plasma is just another form [ionized, and superheated] of Gas [various particles], not a 4th state, just as there are various forms of ice [solid]:
Plasma is indeed the forth state of matter, you don't have to believe what Science says is FACT if you don't want to.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org…complete… after saying it was too long before…
“Breadth” = “platos” = “1) breadth; a) suggesting great extent” [Strong's Concordance] and also “Broad, Breadth:” [Vines Expository], see also Thayer's Lexicon, “breadth, carrying with it the suggestion of great extent, … to the ends or corners of the earth.”, [magnitude] given in the “AV — breadth 4”, used in Ephesians 3:18, Revelation 20:9, Revelation 21:6, stems from the greek word “platys” = “1) broad” [Strong's Concordance], given in “AV — wide 1”, used in Matthew 7:13.
In Revelation 21:6 it is contrasted with 2 other dimensions, given as “length” and “height”, thus 3 dimensions, not four. This is the standard l x w x h in geometrical mathematics.
In Revelation 20:9 is it given genrally as the “breadth of the earth”, as in the full wideness, ie the broadness, the fullness of width.
In Matthew 7:13, the root word of it is contrasted with the narrow way, it being the “broad” way. Therefore again, speaking of the “wideness”.
Now let's go back to Ephesians 3:18, and look at the other pieces.
“length” = “mēkos” = “1) length” [Strong's Concordance], and also “Length: “length,” from the same root as makros, “long” (see FAR, LONG), occurs in Eph 3:18; Rev 21:16 (twice).” [Vines Expository], given in the “AV — length 3”, used in Epheisans 3:18, Revelation 21:16
In Revelation 21:16, again this “length” is contrasted with “breadth” and “height”, again only 3 dimensions, as in geometrical mathematics.
“depth” = “bathos” = “1) depth, height; a) of “the deep” sea; b) metaph.; 1) deep, extreme, poverty; 2) of the deep things of God” [Strong's Concordance], also see “Deep (Noun and Adjective), Deepness, Deeply, Depth:
is used(a) naturally, in Mat 13:5, “deepness;” Mar 4:5, AV, “depth,” RV, “deepness;” Luk 5:4, of “deep” water; Rom 8:39 (contrasted with hupsoma, “height”);
(b) metaphorically, in Rom 11:33, of God's wisdom and knowledge; in 1Cr 2:10, of God's counsels; in Eph 3:18, of the dimensions of the sphere of the activities of God's counsels, and of the love of Christ which occupies that sphere; in 2Cr 8:2, of “deep” poverty; some mss. have it in Rev 2:24. and Depth: See DEEP” [Vines Expository], see also Thayer's Lexicon, and is used in the “AV — depth 5, deep 1, deep + 2596 1, deepness 1, deep thing 1” in Matthew 13:5; Mark 4:5; Luke 5:4; Romans 8:39, 11:33; 1 Corinthians 2:10; 2 Corinthians 8:2; Ephesians 3:18; Revelation 2:24.
In Matthew 13:5 and Mark 4:5, we see the word used as the “deepness” of earth. ie the seed was not buried far enough inward/downward.
In Luke 5:4 we see the word used of the “deep” ocean, as opposed to the shallow seas.
In Romans 8:39 we see it in conjunction with “height”, as in the “deep”.
In Romans 11:33 and 1 Corinthians 2:10, we see the “deep” treasures, being the “deep” things of God. In contrast to this in Revelation 2:24 we see there are also the “deep” things of satan.
In 2 Corinthians 8:2 it is used of the “deep” poverty, ie the very low and greatly poor.
“height” = “hypsos” = “1) height; a) of measurement; b) of place, heaven; c) metaph. rank, high station” [Strong's Concordance] and see also “Estate, State:
signifying “height,” is rendered “(in his) high estate,” Jam 1:9, RV, for AV, “in that he is exalted;” “on high,” Luk 1:78; 24:49; Eph 4:8; “height,” Eph 3:18; Rev 21:16.
See EXALT, HEIGHT, HIGH.Notes:
(1) In Act 22:5, presbuterion, “presbytery, a body of elders,” is translated “estate of the elders,” lit., “the presbytery,” i.e., the Sanhedrin.
(2) In Col 4:7 the plural of the definite article with the preposition kata, and the singular personal pronoun with panta, “all,” is rendered “all my state,” AV, RV, “all my affairs;” in Col 4:8 the preposition peri, with the personal pronoun, lit., “the things concerning us,” is translated “our estate,” i.e., “how we fare;” so in Phl 2:19, 20, “your state,” i.e., “your condition.”
(3) In Mar 6:21 protos, lit., “first,” is rendered “chief estates,” AV, RV, “the chief men,” i.e., the men to whom belongs the dignity.
(4) In Rom 12:16 tapeinos, in the plural with the article, lit., “the lowly,” is translated “men of low estate,” AV, RV, “things that are lowly.”
(5) In Jud 1:6 arche, “principality,” RV, AV has “first estate,”
(6) For “last state” see LAST.
[View Entry in Its Context]
1 Strong's Number: g5311 Greek: hupsosHeight:
“a summit, top,” is translated “height” in Eph 3:18, where it may refer either to “the love of Christ” or to “the fullness of God;” the two are really inseparable, for they who are filled into the fullness of God thereby enter appreciatively into the love of Christ, which “surpasseth knowledge;” in Rev 21:16, of the measurement of the heavenly Jerusalem.
See ESTATE, HIGH.[View Entry in Its Context]
B-1 Noun Strong's Number: g5311 Greek: hupsosHigh (From On, Most), Highly:
“height,” is used with ex (ek) “from,” in the phrase “on high,” Luk 1:78; 24:49; with eis, “in” or “into,” Eph 4:8.
See ESTATE, HEIGHT, No. 1.” [Vines Expository], used in the “AV — on high 2, height 2, high 1, be exalted 1” in Luke 1:78, 24:49; Ephesians 3:18, 4:8; James 1:9; Revelation 21:6In certain cases beyond simply meaning “height”, it also means “exalted” as in Luke 1:79, 24:49; Ephesians 4:8; James 1:9, and in the case of James 1:9, it is in contrast to that which is in “low degree”, ie opposition to lowness, therefore in the heights, highness.
There is no forth dimension, just Hebrew reiteration [in Greek] using an additional term, like a multiplication, to ephasize the full and total extent of God's love, even as it is in context, “…the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God… Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think” [Ephesians 3:19-20].
Now onward to Plasma, the so-called 4th state. There are some people that may call it that, but it simply isn't, and even they, which promote it as such cannot agree that it is… and I quote from several sources establishing this fact:
“The plasma state is frequently referred to as the fourth state of matter in the sequence: solid, liquid, gas, and plasma. The statement implies that plasma is another phase.,/b> Each state is achieved by adding heat to the previous state. The first three states are the three common phases achieved via phase transitions. The statement that plasmas are the fourth state of matter is examined considering phase transitions. It is shown that the transition from gas to plasma is not a phase transition similar to the other phase transitions at which transitions the differential of the Gibbs free energy equals zero. Therefore, strictly speaking, plasmas are better not called the fourth state of matter.” – http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs11090-012-9356-1?LI=true
“… Plasma is often called the fourth state of matter. It is distinct from the three lower-energy phases of matter; solid, liquid, and gas, although it is closely related to the gas phase in that it also has no definite form or volume. There is still some disagreement as to whether a plasma is a distinct state of matter or simply a type of gas. …” – http://www.plasma-universe.com/Plasma
“… <bPlasmas are like gases,… Calling plasma the fourth state of matter is pretty well entrenched, although some insist it's only an extension of the gas phase. …” – http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2006
-01/1137860037.Ph.r.htmlEntrenched does not mean correct, nor give it a free pass to be so.
“…If we consider the gaseous state of matter as being atoms bouncing off one another as a result of radiation (heating), then we can view plasma as being the same thing except the radiation is self-generated due to the missing electrical charge. …I personally do not view plasma as another state of matter…” – http://www.toequest.com/forum….er.html
“…Why is liquid oxygen a 2nd state of matter and gaseous a 3rd state, but plasma is a 4th state when plasma is just really really hot oxygen in the third state. Just because it releases energy in the form of light more so than other states does not change the gaseous state into something new. …” – http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread234559/pg1
…just because it has some funny properties at high temperatures, does not make it new matter, even as other forms of solids and liquids have also funny properties as high and low temperatures, even under varying pressures, for instance ice takes on magnetic properties at supercold temperatures. Is it some new classifcaition matter? No. What about liquid under intense pressures to keep it condensed? Is it a new classification of matter? No.
In the book of Daniel, God the Father, is called the “Ancient of Days” [Daniel 7:9,13,22], and of the Son as “… whose goings forth [have been] from of old, from everlasting” [Malachi 5:2] and “Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life…” [Hebrews 7:3], this does not mean God ever had a beginning, but He is also in time [but unlike us, where we are only creatures of the Present moment, God is Uncreated and in all times, Eternity Past, present moment Now and Eternity Future]. It would be impossible for us to speak of Eternity without the concept of time, but God speaks of Himself as the great I AM. Ego Eimi:
Exo 3:14 καιG2532 CONJ ειπενV-AAI-3S οG3588 T-NSM θεοςG2316 N-NSM προςG4314 PREP μωυσηνN-ASM εγωG1473 P-NS ειμιG1510 V-PAI-1S οG3588 T-NSM ωνG1510 V-PAPNS καιG2532 CONJ ειπενV-AAI-3S ουτωςG3778 ADV ερειςV-FAI-2S τοιςG3588 T-DPM υιοιςG5207 N-DPM ισραηλG2474 N-PRI οG3588 T-NSM ωνG1510 V-PAPNS απεσταλκενG649 V-RAI-3S μεG1473 P-AS προςG4314 PREP υμαςG4771 P-AP
Thus we are the finite, He the infinite.
The wisest passage on this matter, begins like this [see contexct]:
Canst thou by searching find out God? canst thou find out the Almighty unto perfection? Job 11:7
Now to address the second part of the question, is the word in dual or plural [Triple]?, it is in the true plural, not dual.
“…let us make man in our image…”
Now let us consider the “Us, Our, We” texts:
Elohiym, that is, God, for the connecting passages uses that word in direct connection with “He”. “He drove out the man, He placed…Cherubims…” thus, seeing that scripture does differentiate between angels (Cherub(im)/Seraph(im)), who are created (Ezekiel 28:15; Hebrews 1:7), and Elohiym, who being God (Father, Son, Holy Spirit, all present in Genesis), who is Uncreated.
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness… Genesis 1:26,pאֱלֹהִים Translit. 'elohiym = Plural of אֱלוֺהַּ Translit. 'elowahh = God (SC) (probably from prolonged for of אֵל Translit. 'el) The exact same word as used in Genesis 1:1, wherein it was God (Plurality and Unity) Created the Heaven and the Earth. It was God alone (with whom did HE take council?) that formed Heaven and Earth. Even the NT: (…men, which are made after the similitude of God. James 3:9) now compare to Genesis 1:26; God in the Greek here is θεός Translit. theos = God (see LXX; Genesis).
See also Isaiah 54:5: For thy Maker (is) thine husband; the LORD of hosts (is) his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called. Isaiah 54:5
More: “That the God Who created man was Unity of plurality as is revealed not only in the first chapter of Genesis but in other OT texts as well. In the Hebrew text, the word 'asah (gah-sah'), or Maker, is found in the plural form in many references to God alone.
We find a similar statement in Psalm 149:2, “Let Israel rejoice in his Maker….”; again 'Maker” is actually pluralized here.
See Ecclesiastes 12:1 (Remember now thy Creator in the days of thy youth, while the evil days come not, nor the years draw nigh, when thou shalt say, I have no pleasure in them; Ecc 12:1), wherein the word “Creator” is actually plural in Hebrew.
And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us… Gen 3:22
… in the Hebrew:
ויאמר יהוה אלהים
הן האדם היה כאחד
ממנו לדעת טוב ורע
ועתה פן־ ישלח ידו
ולקח גם מעץ החיים
ואכל וחי לעלם׃Which יהוה אלהים, being translit is YHWH Elohiym, and translated as YHWH ((name of the)LORD) Elohiym (God). The words “of” and “the” are not present, and are unneeded [so it is not YHVH [of the] Elohim] as Genesis 4:26 will show; “to call upon the name of the LORD (YHWH)”. See also Isaiah 45:3 “YHWH (LORD), …the Elohiym (God) of Israel”… and see also Zechariah 13:9 “my name,… my people, …shall say …YHWH (LORD) Elohiym (God)” If the passages had meant “LORD of the Angels”, then the pasage would have read “(YHWH) LORD of HOSTS”, 'Hosts' being צָבָא Translit. tsaba'= armies, hosts, of creation, etc. Or it could have said in Greek, “(YHWH) LORD of Sabaoth” 'Sabaoth' being Σαβαώθ translit. Sabaōth (from Hebrew צָבָא Translit. tsaba') = LORD of the Armies, Hosts, Creation.
Go to, let us go down… Genesis 11:7 KJV
הבה נרדה ונבלה שם
שפתם אשר לא ישמעו
איש שפת רעהו׃From various sources; E-Sword; Blue Letter Bible.org; Genesis 11:7Â[bless and do not curse]&Â[bless and do not curse]11:8 ; Genesis 11 / Hebrew – English Bible / Mechon-Mamre ; Genesis Chapter 11 – Parallel Hebrew Old Testament ; watchtower.org
King James Version
11:7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.
[New World Translation – directly from Watchtower.org for any who may be Jehovah's Witnesses]
7 Come now! Let us go down and there confuse their language that they may not listen to one another’s language.”[Hebrew – English; from Mechon-Mamre.org]
ז הָבָה, נֵרְדָה, וְנָבְלָה שָׁם, שְׂפָתָם–אֲשֶׁר לֹא יִשְׁמְעוּ, אִישׁ שְׂפַת רֵעֵהוּ.
7 Come, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.'[Martin Luther's]
Wohlauf, laßt uns herniederfahren und dort ihre Sprache verwirren, daß keiner des andern Sprache verstehe! 11:7[John Wycliffe & John Purvey (Middle English)]
And scheende we there the tunge of hem, that ech man here not the voys of his neiybore. 11:7[LXX; Septuagint]
Δεῦτε καὶ καταβάντες συγχέωμεν αὐτῶν ἐκεῖ τὴν γλῶσσαν, ἵνα μὴ ἀκούσωσιν ἕκαστος τὴν φωνὴν τοῦ πλησίον. 11:7 [2aor act ptcp mas nom|voc pl]Latin Vulgate
11:7 venite igitur descendamus et confundamus ibi linguam eorum ut non audiat unusquisque vocem proximi suiAmerican Standard Version
11:7 Come, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another`s speech.Bible in Basic English
11:7 Come, let us go down and take away the sense of their language, so that they will not be able to make themselves clear to one another.
Darby's English Translation
11:7 Come, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another`s speech.Douay Rheims Bible
11:7 Come ye, therefore, let us go down, and there may not understand one another's speech.Noah Webster Bible
11:7 Come, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.World English Bible
11:7 Come, let`s go down, and there confuse their language, that they may not understand one another`s speech.”Young's Literal Translation
11:7 Give help, let us go down, and mingle there their pronunciation, so that a man doth not understand the pronunciation of his companion.`In many translations in each instance it is translated: “let us”… and note also that that the word for “confuse/confound” is also in the plural… Compare the previous verse wherein mankind had said, “let us” in Vs 3,4 and then in Vs 5 it reveals that YHWH (LORD) came down, in Judgment, as was in the case several times (Babel, Egypt, Sodom Gomorrah, etc). What mankind said they would do, then what God would do.
(Adonai (Isaiah 6:8), in reference to God, the word itself being Plural, see Isaiah; Adonai YHWH… (plural w/singular name), then see Matthew 28:19, (“in the name (singular) of “Father, Son, Holy Spirit” (Plural)).
… the voice of the Lord, saying…who will go for us?… Isaiah 6:8
אֲדֹנָי Translit. 'Adonay (plural) = LORD, used as Adnoai YHWH in Genesis 15:2,8 etc. Compare the previous verse of Isaiah 6:3 “And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, (is) the LORD of hosts: the whole earth (is) full of his glory.” Isaiah 6:3 Three “Holy” are given…to God, who is YHWH (LORD) of Hosts.
Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. John 3:11
Nicodemus and Jesus (private conversation between them by Night) talk was about Heavenly things (which disciples did not know)…John 3:12-13 connects John 3:11 in revealing that Jesus came down from Heaven and could speak of the Kingdom of God “we speak” (of the Heavenly), “we do know” (of the Heavenly), “we have seen” (of the Heavenly), “our witness” (of the Heavenly), as HE had been there and came from there (the disciples had not) and would return yet again:
If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you (of) heavenly things? – John 3:12
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, (even) the Son of man which is in heaven. – John 3:13
Ed J,
Until it is acknowledged that the word for God is in the Plural, and especially the true plural [three], not dual forms, what more can there be to discuss from here, since the very first definition cannot be properly considered in its context?
I was not asking whether you believed in three person, I merely asked what the text itself reads in the Hebrew, and yet even in this, it seems to be a struggle to admit so simply a thing. Why?
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