Jesus IS the MESSIAH

[Stu]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 08 2008,18:27)

Hi Mandy, It is this amazing together knitting of scripture to form a huge and complex unity that first drew me to Christ 25 years ago. For years I willingly studied and would write scriptures I loved and wanted to be able to find again in the verges and on the covers of my bible. Then I noted the cross references at the foot of one of the bibles I used and it became for me an enjoyable and deeply educational pursuit to take a wander through the whole bible following a trail of consistent truth. Nothing since has taken from me this love.   Cross references are available on this site through using the NASB option in the Bible Gateway through 'HN' top RHS every page..

But just for balance, let's consider:

http://www.islamway.com/english/images/library/contradictions.htm

This claims to refute the above, but is itself not credible because it claims that the gospel writers actually witnessed Jesus:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/8986/101-Contradictions-In-The-Bible

I think 'complex unity' is a dishonest claim to make for the Judeo-christian holy books.

Stuart

[NickHassan]

Hi Stu,
Are your conclusions based on deep personal study of these works
or just hearsay?

[kejonn]

Nick,

Why do you always go after the post and hardly ever address what they actually post?

[kejonn]

That should read “go after the poster“

[NickHassan]

Hi kj,
Any shallow philosopher can go on a search for possible contradictions and faults.
Those who respect the origins of the sacred words rather search first for how they can fit together.

[942767]

Quote (Mandy @ Mar. 08 2008,16:30)

Quote (942767 @ Mar. 08 2008,10:51) Quote (Mandy @ Mar. 07 2008,16:04) Quote (david @ Mar. 07 2008,12:38) Daniel 9 24 “There are seventy weeks that have been determined upon your people and upon your holy city, in order to terminate the transgression, and to finish off sin, and to make atonement for error, and to bring in righteousness for times indefinite, and to imprint a seal upon vision and prophet, and to anoint the Holy of Holies. 25 And you should know and have the insight [that] from the going forth of [the] word to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem until Mes·síah [the] Leader, there will be seven weeks, also sixty-two weeks. She will return and be actually rebuilt, with a public square and moat, but in the straits of the times. 26 “And after the sixty-two weeks Mes·síah will be cut off, with nothing for himself. “And the city and the holy place the people of a leader that is coming will bring to their ruin. And the end of it will be by the flood. And until [the] end there will be war; what is decided upon is desolations. Daniel foretold that “Messiah the Leader” would appear 69 “weeks” after the order went forth to restore and rebuild Jerusalem. (Daniel 9:24, 25) Each of these “weeks” was 7 years long. (The ancient Jews commonly thought in terms of weeks of years. For instance, just as every seventh day was a Sabbath day, every seventh year was a Sabbath year.—Exodus 20:8-11; 23:10, 11.) According to the Bible and secular history, the order to rebuild Jerusalem was issued in 455 B.C.E. (Nehemiah 2:1-8) So the Messiah was to appear 483 (69 times 7) years after 455 B.C.E. That brings us to 29 C.E., the very year that Jehovah anointed Jesus with holy spirit. Jesus thus became “the Christ” (meaning “Anointed One”), or Messiah.—Luke 3:15, 16, 21, 22. He may have been annointed in 29 CE, however did anything that was prophesied of his coming actually happen?  I don't recall any flood, do you?  Or is that still coming?  Like the “second coming”? Thanks for the info. David.  I'll look it over a few times and try to digest it all.  You may already realize that I am not as clever as you or even other's here who discuss these things as if it were the ABC's.  It takes me a little longer…. Hi Mandy: The scripture about the flood say the “end”.  The end is not yet come, and my understanding is that “flood” does not mean a flood of waters, but an overflowing.  God has promised never to destroy the earth by a flood again as a rainbow reminds us of this promise. God Bless Overflowing of what? Thanks, Mandy

Hi Mandy:

You ask and overflowing of what, and I believe of destruction.

Please read these scriptures from the NIV posted below. Perhaps it will be a little easier to understand.

Quote

Dan. 9:26 After the sixty-two 'sevens,' the Anointed One will be cut off and will have nothing. The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. 27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.”

This states:

Quote

The end will come like a flood:

God Bless

[Mandy]

94,

Thanks for clarifying. Maybe this “end” will happen in April?

[david]

Quote

I've never cared for the way you debate, David. You have a chip on your shoulder. We obviously have very different belief systems and I thank you for your input so far, but I really don't wish to engage you further.

mANDY, I was imitating your “hmmm”. To me, based on your three comments, it seems you've gone completely to the other end of the spectrum.
#1. You don't even want to discuss something that speaks of “messiah the leader” because it's too hard to understand, or more realistically, it may just point to Jesus as Messiah.

Quote

David, you'll have to forgive me but I really don't think man can figure out for certain the dates and times, it is merely speculation.

Then why did God put it there?

#2. You say dying is hardly being “cut off.”
In Israel, when used regarding a punishment for violation of the Law, it meant a cutting off in death. That is what it means.

3.

Quote

Are you willing to say that Jesus was a sinner? It says here he was “numbered among the sinners…”.

I feel that last one strongly shows a bias or unbalanced thinking. Jesus was defititely “numbered among sinners”

[Mandy]

David,

Haven't you figured out yet that I am completely and utterly unbalanced?

[seek and you will find]

Quote (Mandy @ Mar. 09 2008,07:46)

David, Haven't you figured out yet that I am completely and utterly unbalanced?

Mandy then get balanced again, I don't think it is that hard to do, just try a little harder, please. Don't give up that easy. I know you have been struggling for some months now, but if you give up that will be for ever. That is not what we want you to do. We love you and We want the best for you. And that is Jesus and God. Because if you don't have Jesus You don't have the Father either, so it says in Scriptures, not my words.

Peace and Love Mrs.

[Mandy]

Quote (seek and you will find @ Mar. 09 2008,08:07)

Quote (Mandy @ Mar. 09 2008,07:46) David, Haven't you figured out yet that I am completely and utterly unbalanced? Mandy then get balanced again, I don't think it is that hard to do, just try a little harder, please. Don't give up that easy. I know you have been struggling for some months now, but if you give up that will be for ever. That is not what we want you to do. We love you and We want the best for you. And that is Jesus and God. Because if you don't have Jesus You don't have the Father either, so it says in Scriptures, not my words. Peace and Love Mrs.

Irene, I was actually joking…….

But thanks for your concern.

Love,
Mandy

[942767]

Quote (Mandy @ Mar. 09 2008,07:41)

94, Thanks for clarifying.  Maybe this “end” will happen in April?

Hi Mandy:

We must be ready at all times. No man knows the day or the hour, but the signs of the times indicate that the Lord will come soon.

It is wonderful to know that my sins are forgiven.

I love you and desire the very best that God has to offer.

God Bless

[david]

So, this is an important issue. I feel a lot of time is wasted in various threads here.

Either the following scripture is true or it is false.

JOHN 3:16
““For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.”

If it is true, much is to be lost by denying Jesus.

If it is false, if those words were penned by someone who was misguided, or someone who was lied to, and Jesus is not who he claimed to be, well, not much of this really matters.

So, I think we should really try to focus on this subject. I feel it is a very important one. I'm currently trying to take dan 9:24-27 apart line by line. I do feel it is meant to be understood. Of course, not everyone would or will understand or believe, or even try to understand.
But my point of this post is that it is of utmost importance that we do at least try to figure these things out.

[david]

Regarding Daniel 9, for example, it is and can be puzzling. But I believe it is worth every effort.

A wise person will listen and take in more instruction, and a man of understanding is the one who acquires skillful direction, to understand a proverb and a puzzling saying, the words of wise persons and their riddles. Prov 1:5,6

[Stu]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 08 2008,18:40)

Hi Stu, Are your conclusions based on deep personal study of these works or just hearsay?

My conclusions are based on a personal study that is deep enough for me, and I hold high standards for probity when it comes to truth claims. I think my study of scripture actually has greater depth than yours does, because my reading between the lines is not clouded by wishful thinking.

Stuart

[NickHassan]

Hi Stu,
NO WISHFUL THINKING?
And yet you propound evolution doctrines??

[Stu]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 09 2008,18:47)

Hi Stu, NO WISHFUL THINKING? And yet you propound evolution doctrines??

No need for wishful thinking. It doesn't matter what my opinion is of scientific theories, just as your opinion is irrelevant. They stand or fall on evidence. If you can disprove it then it is wishful thinking. You can't, so it isn't.

Stuart

[NickHassan]

Hi Stu,
All the evidence you need will be given to you after you die.

[Mandy]

Quote (942767 @ Mar. 09 2008,08:42)

Quote (Mandy @ Mar. 09 2008,07:41) 94, Thanks for clarifying.  Maybe this “end” will happen in April?   Hi Mandy: We must be ready at all times.  No man knows the day or the hour, but the signs of the times indicate that the Lord will come soon. It is wonderful to know that my sins are forgiven. I love you and desire the very best that God has to offer. God Bless

Thank, brother. You are so genuine and I feel your love and concern for me. I've also felt the prayers of those who have been praying for me lately.

There are so many doctrines out there, that is where I have become so disheartened.

Just look here on this thread alone we have David (a sold-out JW who loves God and is convinced of his dogma; there is Nick who is equally convinced; and other's who hold various beliefs who also think they have the “truth” while other's are misled). Deep breath…….

Still, God's precious holy Spirit has a deposit paid on my soul and I feel that I am His. Sometimes I think that simple faith is enough – whether I become a JW, Catholic, Trinitarian, Unitarian or a Librarian.

[942767]

Quote (Mandy @ Mar. 10 2008,15:40)

Quote (942767 @ Mar. 09 2008,08:42) Quote (Mandy @ Mar. 09 2008,07:41) 94, Thanks for clarifying.  Maybe this “end” will happen in April?   Hi Mandy: We must be ready at all times.  No man knows the day or the hour, but the signs of the times indicate that the Lord will come soon. It is wonderful to know that my sins are forgiven. I love you and desire the very best that God has to offer. God Bless Thank, brother.  You are so genuine and I feel your love and concern for me.  I've also felt the prayers of those who have been praying for me lately. There are so many doctrines out there, that is where I have become so disheartened. Just look here on this thread alone we have David (a sold-out JW who loves God and is convinced of his dogma; there is Nick who is equally convinced; and other's who hold various beliefs who also think they have the “truth” while other's are misled).  Deep breath……. Still, God's precious holy Spirit has a deposit paid on my soul and I feel that I am His.  Sometimes I think that simple faith is enough – whether I become a JW, Catholic, Trinitarian, Unitarian or a Librarian.

Hi Mandy:

I do love you and I want God's very best for you, but there is one who suffered every kind of abuse that the world has to offer and ulitmatley died a cruel death on the cross because he loved you and me.  He did not have to do it, but he did it because of his love for us.

Mandy, he is the propitiation for our sins, and without the blood that he shed so that our sins can be washed away, we are still in our sins.  This something that God has done for us.  Jesus is God's gift of love to humanity.

I know that there are a lot of different understanding of the scriptures, but if we are Christians, we have one thing in common, and that is that we believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God, and the the testimony of God regarding His Son is true.  And we know this because we have been born again and the Spirit of God our Father dwells within us testifying of this reality.

Frankly, there are still some things that I don't understand, but I am studying asking God for revelation knowledge of those things that I don't understand.

God Bless

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