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Cato,
I see much merit in the Gathas of Zarathushtra. Zarathushtra (“Z”) was around well before Jesus, perhaps long before Moses (no definitive date). In any case, what Zarathushtra taught was that we are to use our minds because God indeed gave them to us. And that was 1000s of years ago, not some new age thinking! Z taught that we should strive for good thoughts, good words, and good deeds and that we could look to God to help guide us in those endeavors.
Deism is pretty much up in the air with no set of solid beliefs. Just like Z's teachings, deism will never popular because it is not a reward/punishment belief system. Therefore it does not play on the selfish desires of mankind to avoid punishment or seek reward.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 20 2008,17:08) Hi KJ,
Jn4
21Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.22Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
23But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Jas 1
26If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.27Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
Nick,This is a serious question, but just what is worship? How do you worship?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 20 2008,17:08) Hi KJ, Jas 1
27Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
Notice James does not say pure religion is believing in Jesus.Hi Kj,
Religion is the expression of our faith in God and His Son and God is practical.
It has nothing to do with trying to establish a relationship.
The poor have always been His favourites.So we are not to have a relationship with God? How sad for you. I guess you see your role as slave, and God as master.
Hi KJ,
In my Spirit temple daily I praise the living God.
1Peter 2
1 Peter 2:5
Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ……9But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
1 Corinthians 3:16
Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?1 Corinthians 3:17
If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are.1 Corinthians 6:19
Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?Quote (kejonn @ Mar. 21 2008,13:08) Cato, I see much merit in the Gathas of Zarathushtra. Zarathushtra (“Z”) was around well before Jesus, perhaps long before Moses (no definitive date). In any case, what Zarathushtra taught was that we are to use our minds because God indeed gave them to us. And that was 1000s of years ago, not some new age thinking! Z taught that we should strive for good thoughts, good words, and good deeds and that we could look to God to help guide us in those endeavors.
Deism is pretty much up in the air with no set of solid beliefs. Just like Z's teachings, deism will never popular because it is not a reward/punishment belief system. Therefore it does not play on the selfish desires of mankind to avoid punishment or seek reward.
HiKJ,
Now you have to figure out what GOOD means.
Jesus mentioned it.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 20 2008,21:01) Hi KJ,
In my Spirit temple daily I praise the living God.
1Peter 2
1 Peter 2:5
Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ……9But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
1 Corinthians 3:16
Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?1 Corinthians 3:17
If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are.1 Corinthians 6:19
Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?
But you still have not answer what worship is. What do you think it is Nick?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 20 2008,21:02) Quote (kejonn @ Mar. 21 2008,13:08) Cato, I see much merit in the Gathas of Zarathushtra. Zarathushtra (“Z”) was around well before Jesus, perhaps long before Moses (no definitive date). In any case, what Zarathushtra taught was that we are to use our minds because God indeed gave them to us. And that was 1000s of years ago, not some new age thinking! Z taught that we should strive for good thoughts, good words, and good deeds and that we could look to God to help guide us in those endeavors.
Deism is pretty much up in the air with no set of solid beliefs. Just like Z's teachings, deism will never popular because it is not a reward/punishment belief system. Therefore it does not play on the selfish desires of mankind to avoid punishment or seek reward.
HiKJ,
Now you have to figure out what GOOD means.
Jesus mentioned it.
Merely “mentioned” it? I guess Jesus was not too concerned about it as opposed to having people follow him. Again, that is a selfish desire to have followers. Altogether human (which Jesus was, but also shows he was not divine).Note the phrase above in my quote: “we should strive for good thoughts, good words, and good deeds and that we could look to God to help guide us in those endeavors.”
Look to God, Nick, not a book. God is limitless, a book is done and limited. You try to find all of the answers in the bible and there are too many questions left unanswered if that is your approach. Even Jesus said
- Joh 14:26 “But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.
Of course, you will try to say that only Christians have access to God and His spirit, but the God who created all is not selfish. All who seek Him — and not just according to an old tome that paints a cruel picture of Him — can have a relationship with Him. He is indeed a loving Father who plays no favorites, even as much as you may want Him to.
Quote (kejonn @ Mar. 21 2008,14:08) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 20 2008,21:01) Hi KJ,
In my Spirit temple daily I praise the living God.
1Peter 2
1 Peter 2:5
Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ……9But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
1 Corinthians 3:16
Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?1 Corinthians 3:17
If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are.1 Corinthians 6:19
Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?
But you still have not answer what worship is. What do you think it is Nick?
Hi KJ,
Yes I have.
But what is your view?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 21 2008,15:26) Hi KJ,
Relationships take many forms.
The Father demands we come to Him through His Son.
Why do you appease a murderer? Just like any immoral despot if you give an inch they take a mile. Can't we learn from Chamberlain's visit to see Hitler?Stuart
Quote (Cato @ Mar. 21 2008,11:09) Stu and KJ,
Both of you are obviously critical of religion, yet what's your take on deism? Defining a deist as, “One who believes in the existence of a God or supreme being but denies revealed religion, basing his belief on the light of nature and reason.”
Thomas Paine a strong proponent of such wrote, All other systems have something in them that either shock our reason, or are repugnant to it, and man, if he thinks at all, must stifle his reason in order to force himself to believe them. “But in Deism our reason and our belief become happily united. The wonderful structure of the universe, and everything we behold in the system of the creation, prove to us, far better than books can do, the existence of a God, and at the same time proclaim His attributes.”
One key difference between Deism and the “revealed” religions is that Deists don't believe faith is required to believe in God. Quoting Voltaire, “What is faith? Is it to believe that which is evident? No. It is perfectly evident to my mind that there exists a necessary, eternal, supreme, and intelligent being. This is no matter of faith, but of reason.”
I would be interested in your comments.
Deists commonly believe (from Wikipedia):…the Deist maintained that God endowed the world at creation with self-sustaining and self-acting powers and then abandoned it to the operation of these powers acting as second causes.
and
God wants human beings to behave morally. Human beings have souls that survive death; that is, there is an afterlife.…which together are incompatible with evolution by natural selection, one of the natural processes accepted by the deist.
If god really set everything off and left the later appearance of humans to the blind process of natural selection he did so with no guarantees that humans would actually eventuate. The deist needs an alternative theory, one that can accommodate the 'preseeding' of matter in some way. As with the creationist, there is no such theory and no discernable mechanism for it. The fossil record shows a 'suck it and see' approach to the survival of new species, far from the predestination you would need for deist belief.
Stuart
Hi,
Jn4
19The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.20Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.
21Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
22Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
23But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
25The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.
26Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.
27And upon this came his disciples, and marvelled that he talked with the woman: yet no man said, What seekest thou? or, Why talkest thou with her?
28The woman then left her waterpot, and went her way into the city, and saith to the men,
29Come, see a man, which told me all things that ever I did: is not this the Christ?
30Then they went out of the city, and came unto him.
31In the mean while his disciples prayed him, saying, Master, eat.
32But he said unto them, I have meat to eat that ye know not of.
33Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat?
34Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.
35Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest.
36And he that reapeth receiveth wages, and gathereth fruit unto life eternal: that both he that soweth and he that reapeth may rejoice together.
37And herein is that saying true, One soweth, and another reapeth.
38I sent you to reap that whereon ye bestowed no labour: other men laboured, and ye are entered into their labours.
39And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did.
40So when the Samaritans were come unto him, they besought him that he would tarry with them: and he abode there two days.
41And many more believed because of his own word;
42And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.
So the Samaritans recognised Jesus as a Prophet, the Christ and the Messiah.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 20 2008,22:22) Quote (kejonn @ Mar. 21 2008,14:08) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 20 2008,21:01) Hi KJ,
In my Spirit temple daily I praise the living God.
1Peter 2
1 Peter 2:5
Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ……9But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
1 Corinthians 3:16
Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?1 Corinthians 3:17
If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are.1 Corinthians 6:19
Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?
But you still have not answer what worship is. What do you think it is Nick?
Hi KJ,
Yes I have.
But what is your view?
No you haven't. You've listed verse that say nothing about what worship is. Can you not give your opinion?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 20 2008,22:26) Hi KJ,
Relationships take many forms.
The Father demands we come to Him through His Son.
Really? He told the Jews, according to the bible, something different for thousands of years.Quote (kejonn @ Mar. 21 2008,19:48) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 20 2008,22:26) Hi KJ,
Relationships take many forms.
The Father demands we come to Him through His Son.
Really? He told the Jews, according to the bible, something different for thousands of years.
Evolving gods change their tunes!Stuart
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 21 2008,03:20) Hi Kj,
You are catching on.
Still lost on the worship thing?
You've yet to say what constitutes worship Nick. Do you chant? Light candles? Sing songs? Bow with your face to the floor? How Nick?Why do you avoid so many questions and then speak negatively of the one who asks you questions so much?
Do YOU have anything to offer but negativity?
Hi KJ,
Acts 16:25
And at midnight Paul and Silas prayed, and sang praises unto God: and the prisoners heard them.
Acts 6:4
But we will give ourselves continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word.
Romans 8:26
Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
1 Corinthians 14:14
For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
1 Corinthians 14:15
What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
Ephesians 6:18
Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
Philippians 4:6
Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.
Colossians 1:3
We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you,
1 Thessalonians 3:10
Night and day praying exceedingly that we might see your face, and might perfect that which is lacking in your faith?
1 Thessalonians 5:17
Pray without ceasing.
Jude 1:20
But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,Romans 12
1I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.2And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
3For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
4For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:
5So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
6Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;
7Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching;
8Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness.
9Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.
10Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another;
11Not slothful in business; fervent in spirit; serving the Lord;
12Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer;
13Distributing to the necessity of saints; given to hospitality.
14Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not.
15Rejoice with them that do rejoice, and weep with them that weep.
16Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.
17Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.
18If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.
19Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
20Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
21Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.
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