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Jewish scholar Abba Hillel Silver wrote that according to “the popular chronology” of the day, “the Messiah was expected around the second quarter of the first century C.E.”—-A History of Messianic Speculation in Israel, Rabbi Abba Hillel Silver, 1927, Macmillan Co., pg 5-7
Now for the full quote. Again, I don't really understand the reasoning behind it, but he does again state that for whatever reason, expecations were higher than usual for a messiah AROUND THE TIME OF JESUS.
“Prior to the first century (C.E.) the Messianic interest was not excessive…The First Century, however, especially the generation before the destruction [of the Second Temple] witnessed a remarkable outburst of Messianic emotionalism. This is to be attributed, as we shall see, not to an intensification of Roman persecution, but to the prevalent belief induced by the popular chronology of that day that the age was on the threshold of the Millennium…when Jesus came into Galilee, 'spreading the gospel of the kingdom of God and saying the 'time is fulfilled' and the Kingdom of God is at hand,' he was voicing the opinion universally held that…the age of the kingdom of God-was at hand…it was this chronological fact which inflamed the Messianic hope rather than the Roman persecutions…Jesus appeared in the procuratorship of Pontius Pilate (26-36 c.e.)…It seems likely, therefore, that in the minds of the people the Millennium was to begin around the year 30 C.E. Be it remembered that it is not the Messiah who brings about the Millennium. It is the inevitable advent of the Millennium which carries along with it the Messiah and his appointed activities. The Messiah was expected around the second quarter of the First Century C.E. because the Millennium was at hand. Prior to that time he was not expected, because according to the chronology of the day the Millennium was still considerably removed.”
I don't really understand how they understood the “chronology of the day” but for whatever their reasons or whatever scriptures they were basing this on (I like to think dan 9, but there is no hint of that in this quote) they WERE IN EXPECTATION OF THE MESSIAH AROUND THE TIME OF JESUS.
Hey, that reminds me of this other quote, from a physician:
“In the fifteenth year of the reign of Ti·béri·us Caesar, [29 C.E.] when Pontius Pilate was governor of Ju·déa, and Herod was district ruler of Gaĺi·lee, but Philip his brother was district ruler of the country of It·u·raéa and Trach·o·nítis, and Ly·sáni·as was district ruler of Ab·i·léne, . . . . . the people were in expectation and all were reasoning in their hearts about John: “May he perhaps be the Christ?”–Luke 3:1,15
david
If they were expecting the messiah right around the time Jesus arrived, I wonder what would get in the way for them recognizing Jesus?
Oh, that's right–false expectations.
While rightly understanding that messiah was to arrive, they were out of line with why he was to arrive. Of course, they were out of line with a lot of things, and their religious teachers lead the way. And if this Jesus of Nazareth is going around calling the scribes and pharisess– serpents and offsrping of vipers,– I'm thinking they wouldn't be too eager to see him as the messiah.
Quote (david @ Mar. 18 2008,18:37) Quote But as usual, you avoided the last post. I said the OT speaks of a messianic era. That era has not come. Hi Kejonn. I don't know why and I'm not sure exactly what it's based on,, but yes, they did believe in a messianic era. And they seem to believe for whatever reason that it would begin around the time of Jesus. The first 2 quarters of that century, there were higher expectations for Messiah than usual. Again, I don't know why, or why they expected the messiah around that time, but it seems they did.
I think if you look into the intertestamental period — when the Apocrypha was written — you'll find that much went on between the Jews and Romans. So like any other time in their history (or at least what we have in the OT), they looked for some powerful figure from God to deliver them. Read Maccabees for some of what took place, the battles waged.So it was so much a certain time, but the circumstances. The Jews looked for a deliverer and they never got one. Many tried — and failed. Jesus was just one in a long list of those who claimed to be the Jewish messiah.
Quote And when he didn't come (around the time of Jesus) they decided that it must have been because of their sinfullness. He would come later. Sure.
david, If you study the OT this is almost always the case. When the Jews lost a battle, it was due to sinfulness. When they won, they felt they were righteous and God was on their side. You are just seeing common Jewish thought in action. Their political maneuverings were very intertwined with their religion. Probably more so than any other race of people in history.Quote Quote Further along in Sanhedrin we find this quote:
“The Tannadebe Eliyyahu teaches: the world is to exist six thousand years. In the first two thousand there was desolation; two thousand years the Torah flourished; and the next two thousand years is the Messianic era, but through our many iniquities all these years have been lost!”–Sanhedrin 97a & b.In the Yakult on Psalms 139:16-17 we find the statement:
“This world is to last 6000 years; 2000 years it was waste and desolate, 2000 years marks the period under the law, 2000 years under the Messiah. And because our sins are increased, they are increased.”–Yakult on Psalms 139:16-17, (vol. 2, pg. 129d).
If you actually had the Talmud (not easy) you'd find just as many rabbis who oppose this viewpoint. The Talmud is a commentary, not scripture. Although many Jews do hold it in almost equal regard as the OT.Quote You say that the OT speaks of a messianic era and that this era has not come. The jews also believed in a messianic era. And when it didn't come (around the time of Jesus) they had to alter their hopes.
Or the time of any of the other “messiahs”. From Failed Messiahs- Throughout Jewish history, many charismatic leaders have come forth to claim that they are the true Messiah; the Son of God. During the first century CE, messianic hopes were high among Jews. They were feeling oppressed by the Romans and awaited the long-hoped for redemption in the form of the Messiah. While Jews were in a vulnerable state, many false messiahs attempted to convince the community that they were the real thing. None of these ever panned out to be anything more than a hoax.
Again during the time period when Islam was on the rise, messianic hopes were heightened among Jews. Believers in Judaism awaited their prophet and messiah, as Muslims had found in their prophet Muhammed. The prophet Muhammed gave a new twist to the idea of the Messiah since Jews started to realize that the leadership could come from anyone, even the poorest and least-educated. During this time, several men appeared from across the lands who claimed to be the Jewish Messiah.
Earlier important events triggered an even higher anticipation for the “End Time.” Old Persia fell, the Roman empire in Asia was expelled, and the time was ripe for the Redeemer.
Over and over again false messiahs have come forth to claim the seat next to God. Some have acquired decent sized followings before their failure, some of these messiahs still have a following today, and others have simply failed. Choose from the list of failed messiahs below to find out more information and details.
Jewish “Messiahs” in and around the 1st century:
- Alexander the Great
- Judas son of Hezekiah (Ezekias) (c. 4 BCE)
- Simon (c. 4 BCE)
- Athronges (c. 4-2? BCE)
- Jesus
- Theudas (44-46) in the Roman province of Judea
- Menahem ben Judah partook in a revolt against Agrippa II in Judea
- Simon bar Kokhba (died c. 135), defeated in the Second Jewish-Roman War
Quote (david @ Mar. 18 2008,18:56) If they were expecting the messiah right around the time Jesus arrived, I wonder what would get in the way for them recognizing Jesus? Oh, that's right–false expectations.
While rightly understanding that messiah was to arrive, they were out of line with why he was to arrive. Of course, they were out of line with a lot of things, and their religious teachers lead the way. And if this Jesus of Nazareth is going around calling the scribes and pharisess– serpents and offsrping of vipers,– I'm thinking they wouldn't be too eager to see him as the messiah.
The OT view of the coming Messiah was false?Yes, I don't doubt that there were many false messiahs around the time of Jesus.
Perhaps that is because they were in expectation of the messiah around that time, and hence were seeing them everywhere.
There seem to be more messiahs around this time, I think, because this is around the time he was expected, as the quotes I gave show.
But the fact that most could not recognize him at the time he was supposed to come only speaks against these ones who were done in by their own pre-conceived false ideas about the messiah.david
Quote The Jews looked for a deliverer and they never got one. Exactly right. They looked for a deliverer. Someone to save them from the yoke of Rome. Someone to give them triumph and power.
And they were expecting him to come just around the time Jesus arrived. But THAT PERSON never showed.
Yet, the messiah did arrive, exactly on time, and interestingly, when many expected him to come.
But he was not what they expected.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 18 2008,19:20) Hi KJ,
You have attacked the integrity of the OT.
So why would you be interested in the details?
I was communicating with David, not the “great thread diverter”.Quote (david @ Mar. 18 2008,19:21) Yes, I don't doubt that there were many false messiahs around the time of Jesus.
Perhaps that is because they were in expectation of the messiah around that time, and hence were seeing them everywhere.
There seem to be more messiahs around this time, I think, because this is around the time he was expected, as the quotes I gave show.
But the fact that most could not recognize him at the time he was supposed to come only speaks against these ones who were done in by their own pre-conceived false ideas about the messiah.david
But you have yet to show why they had false notions. You can't just try to prove your point with NT because it only presents a viewpoint that is unfriendly to Jews.Quote (david @ Mar. 18 2008,19:27) Quote The Jews looked for a deliverer and they never got one. Exactly right. They looked for a deliverer. Someone to save them from the yoke of Rome. Someone to give them triumph and power.
And they were expecting him to come just around the time Jesus arrived. But THAT PERSON never showed.
Yet, the messiah did arrive, exactly on time, and interestingly, when many expected him to come.
But he was not what they expected.
But if you use the OT, you can not come up with the type of “deliverer” that Jesus was supposed to be. I know you lean strongly on Is 53, but that has so much contention wrapped around it to be almost useless for your case.Hi KJ,
Jesus has always been surrounded by contention.
Some even killed him because of his claims.
We should not join those enemies of God. He is LordQuote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 19 2008,16:40) Hi KJ,
Jesus has always been surrounded by contention.
Some even killed him because of his claims.
We should not join those enemies of God. He is Lord
Why do you call the executers of Jesus 'enemies of god'? Is it not by their actions that your salvation was enabled?Stuart
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 18 2008,23:40) Hi KJ,
Jesus has always been surrounded by contention.
Some even killed him because of his claims.
We should not join those enemies of God. He is Lord
Jesus was killed for being an insurrectionist. He claimed a kingdom. Plus, he became a troublemaker in the temple. It had nothing to do with a sacrifice, as you have already shown that God does not desire sacrifices or sin offerings (Ps 40).Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 19 2008,04:30) Hi Stu,
“Forgive them Father for they know not what they do”
Forgive them for they are just the pawns of God? You can believe God manipulates people so that they end up being persecuted and killed for hundreds of years afterwards, but that's not a view of God I care for.Its the same view of God presented in Exodus that has Pharaoh harden his heart so God can bring one less plague: the death of the firstborns. What a cruel view of God, the bringer of so much death, even to innocent babes in their cribs.
Quote (kejonn @ Mar. 20 2008,00:38) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 18 2008,23:40) Hi KJ,
Jesus has always been surrounded by contention.
Some even killed him because of his claims.
We should not join those enemies of God. He is Lord
Jesus was killed for being an insurrectionist. He claimed a kingdom. Plus, he became a troublemaker in the temple. It had nothing to do with a sacrifice, as you have already shown that God does not desire sacrifices or sin offerings (Ps 40).
Hi KJ,
Nobody has to serve the god of this world, the prince of darkness. Have you not heard of Jesus of Nazareth who came from God to offer men freedom?God gave the OT Law, but so that men would respond to the wisdom of Spirit of the Law and not just tick the boxes.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 19 2008,21:30) Hi Stu,
“Forgive them Father for they know not what they do”
“Encourage them father for this is necessary”?Stuart
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