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Hi KJ,
You want to see everything?
Faith is better.
John 20:29
Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 12 2008,21:41) Hi KJ,
You want to see everything?
Faith is better.
John 20:29
Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
Why is faith better when there is little to have faith in?!? Must I have faith in flawed scripture?Quote (kejonn @ Mar. 13 2008,14:51) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 12 2008,21:41) Hi KJ,
You want to see everything?
Faith is better.
John 20:29
Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
Why is faith better when there is little to have faith in?!? Must I have faith in flawed scripture?
I guess the flawed scripture is all we have. God knows this. I don't believe (in my opinion) that he will hold us accountable to every little “i” and “t” that is written. Especially if you have searched him out to the best of your ability and have come accross some things you just cannot accept because they conflict with other information. I mean, goodness, what is a person to do when this happens. I know….have faith.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 13 2008,08:55) Hi mandy,
Perhaps follow the wisdom of Mary.
Luke 2:19
But Mary kept all these things, and pondered them in her heart.We cannot know it all now.
We will always have got some things wrong.
Jumping to premature conclusions is not of wisdom
Premature conclusions……..how long do you have to study before your conclusions are not considered “premature”? A lifetime?
Also, what about the things we “get wrong”? What if one of them is whether or not Jesus is the Messiah?
Hi mandy,
He was the messiah for the Jews, but your Saviour.
1 John 4:14
And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.This is a very elementary question but why did God need to send a designated “Messiah” for the Jews and the same man is called only our “Savior”? Why is he not our Messiah as well?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 13 2008,16:08) Hi mandy,
We never had an agreement written to send a Messiah.
In the case of the Jews, isn't the Messiah and the Saviour the same thing only different titles?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 13 2008,14:41) Hi KJ,
You want to see everything?
Faith is better.
John 20:29
Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
If you close your eyes you can make yourself see anything you want.Stuart
Quote (Mandy @ Mar. 12 2008,22:20) Quote (kejonn @ Mar. 13 2008,14:51) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 12 2008,21:41) Hi KJ,
You want to see everything?
Faith is better.
John 20:29
Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
Why is faith better when there is little to have faith in?!? Must I have faith in flawed scripture?
I guess the flawed scripture is all we have. God knows this. I don't believe (in my opinion) that he will hold us accountable to every little “i” and “t” that is written. Especially if you have searched him out to the best of your ability and have come accross some things you just cannot accept because they conflict with other information. I mean, goodness, what is a person to do when this happens. I know….have faith.
Is it Mandy? Why? Rather, is scripture just one of many clues to lead one to form a view of God? After all, billions form their own opinion of God based solely on the the same scripture and say they alone have truth.I am merely advocating here a living faith in a living God, not a static faith in static words written to primitive people.
Hi KJ,
If scripture contains truth about God then it is all truth
or we are faced with the dilemma as to who decides which parts are useful?
Are we now more intelligent and better educated and thus in some way wiser than the people of the bible?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 14 2008,06:07) Hi KJ,
If scripture contains truth about God then it is all truth
or we are faced with the dilemma as to who decides which parts are useful?
Are we now more intelligent and better educated and thus in some way wiser than the people of the bible?
We have discussed all of these ideas months ago. It would seem that indeed there is nothing living and everything static about scripture, and bible-belivers will have to admit a constant cycle of these same questions, ad infinitum. Hopefully they have better than goldfish memories and can remember the conclusions reached last time.Stuart
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 13 2008,13:07) Hi KJ,
If scripture contains truth about God then it is all truth
or we are faced with the dilemma as to who decides which parts are useful?
Are we now more intelligent and better educated and thus in some way wiser than the people of the bible?
So if someone tells you truth they can never lie? Or maybe be telling something that is only true to them while not necessarily being absolutely true?For instance, a wife might honestly believe and tell everyone that her husband is a faithful man but the truth may be that he cheats on her. To her knowledge, his faithfulness is true.
More intelligent than those in the bible? I dunno, did they take IQ tests? I will say I am certainly more educated than many of the characters of the bible, including Peter was was a simple fisherman. Most fishermen in the 1st century could not read or write (nor needed to), so education was not a strongpoint for them.
And you just accept their “wisdom” because the bible says they are wise.
“Jesus loves me, this I know”
How?
“For the bible tells me so”.
Not every word written is the whole truth.
Quote (kejonn @ Mar. 14 2008,00:01) Quote (Mandy @ Mar. 12 2008,22:20) Quote (kejonn @ Mar. 13 2008,14:51) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 12 2008,21:41) Hi KJ,
You want to see everything?
Faith is better.
John 20:29
Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
Why is faith better when there is little to have faith in?!? Must I have faith in flawed scripture?
I guess the flawed scripture is all we have. God knows this. I don't believe (in my opinion) that he will hold us accountable to every little “i” and “t” that is written. Especially if you have searched him out to the best of your ability and have come accross some things you just cannot accept because they conflict with other information. I mean, goodness, what is a person to do when this happens. I know….have faith.
Is it Mandy? Why? Rather, is scripture just one of many clues to lead one to form a view of God? After all, billions form their own opinion of God based solely on the the same scripture and say they alone have truth.I am merely advocating here a living faith in a living God, not a static faith in static words written to primitive people.
Hey,I think you used this analogy a while back ago (forgive me if it was someone else), you said the bible is like a diary left behind…..by reading it you can know more about the author.
We have concluded that men wrote the bible, but they wrote about someOne (and later about that someOne's Son). Can we not learn anything truthful about God from reading these diaries?
Or is your point that there are other writings out there with equal purpose in pointing us towards God? Of course everyone will read these works and form their own conclusions, but still doesn't mean there isn't truth therein.
Quote (Mandy @ Mar. 13 2008,14:05) Quote (kejonn @ Mar. 14 2008,00:01) Quote (Mandy @ Mar. 12 2008,22:20) Quote (kejonn @ Mar. 13 2008,14:51) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 12 2008,21:41) Hi KJ,
You want to see everything?
Faith is better.
John 20:29
Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
Why is faith better when there is little to have faith in?!? Must I have faith in flawed scripture?
I guess the flawed scripture is all we have. God knows this. I don't believe (in my opinion) that he will hold us accountable to every little “i” and “t” that is written. Especially if you have searched him out to the best of your ability and have come accross some things you just cannot accept because they conflict with other information. I mean, goodness, what is a person to do when this happens. I know….have faith.
Is it Mandy? Why? Rather, is scripture just one of many clues to lead one to form a view of God? After all, billions form their own opinion of God based solely on the the same scripture and say they alone have truth.I am merely advocating here a living faith in a living God, not a static faith in static words written to primitive people.
Hey,I think you used this analogy a while back ago (forgive me if it was someone else), you said the bible is like a diary left behind…..by reading it you can know more about the author.
But the authors are human, and most of the authors are unknown.I have been reading a book called “Who Wrote the Bible”. It is a fasinating read. It makes the point that people are interested in the lives and personilities of the authors of other works, why should the bible be different? Yet most of the books of the bible do not have authors signing their name to the work. I wonder why?
Quote We have concluded that men wrote the bible, but they wrote about someOne (and later about that someOne's Son). Can we not learn anything truthful about God from reading these diaries?
IMHO, yes. But not all because the authors are biased and presenting their view of God. So it comes down to whether you can accept the various views.Did you know that the OT is full of “doublets” and “triplets”? That is, stories told and retold by different authors. One author will call God “Yahweh” while the other author will just use “El” or “Elohim”.
When the Southern and Northern kingdom split under the sons of Solomon, the Northern kingdom (Israel) set up worship of “Elohim”, while the Southern kingdom (Judah) retained worship of “Yahweh”. Both used similar religious practices, but there were differences.
All of this is found in the OT! Its quite intriguing as a political piece by itself. You can see how Solomon showed favoritism to Judah and Benjamin, and somewhat ignored the other tribes.
Quote Or is your point that there are other writings out there with equal purpose in pointing us towards God? Of course everyone will read these works and form their own conclusions, but still doesn't mean there isn't truth therein.
Exactly. But my proposal is that it cannot be the whole truth, nor is all of it true. Archaeology is proving some of those points, but do you really accept that God would say that as long as a rapist pays a womans father 50 shekels and then makes the raped woman marry the rapist, that such would fall under the realm of a loving God? Would you want to marry someone who raped you?There are many ref's towards women in the OT that are shameful or even scary. But realize that women have only made foward strides in the last 100 years, really. So, somehow I'm not surprised that way back then a women would have to marry a rapist. Goodness, just the thought of that makes me want to throw up my breakfast.
Quote (kejonn @ Mar. 14 2008,07:27) Did you know that the OT is full of “doublets” and “triplets”? That is, stories told and retold by different authors. One author will call God “Yahweh” while the other author will just use “El” or “Elohim”.
I confess that I have never been able to read the whole OT. It's too complicated and I get lost. I've tried several times. Maybe I'll buy one of those through the bible in one year books and give it a whir (next year).What are some of these doublets and triplets?
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