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Hi BD,
And out of the other side of your mouth you call him a liar and a spiritually blind man?
You are not aligned with our God at all then?
God approved him but you cannot.Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 12 2009,11:19) Hi BD,
And out of the other side of your mouth you call him a liar and a spiritually blind man?
You are not aligned with our God at all then?
God approved him but you cannot.
Did I say I did not approve of him? No, but you insist on being satanic towards me.Hi BD,
He was not blind but you do openly reveal your blindness.
The Spirit could open your eyes and you could see the kingdom.Quote (bodhitharta @ July 12 2009,11:02) Quote (Jesus name follower of Christ @ July 12 2009,11:00) I think God wants true unadulterated full of joy worship and Him alone
Then Worship God and obey his son who says to worship the Father with all your heart, soul, and mind and worship the Father in spirit and truth.If you worship Jesus you don't believe in what he taught.
If one worships the Father in spirit of Truth then he is worshiping Jesus also who is the word of Truth. You can't worship Jesus without worshiping God nor can you worship God without worshiping the whole Spirit. They are one says the Spirit, the Word and the Father. There is no separation. Like fire,light,heat,flame,burn. All who believe are ONE with them. Jesus prayed that we all be ONE together. In the beginning was ONE! All that was, all that is and all that will be is from the ONE. All that exists is inclusive. All in God. God is everywhere. When one believes, he becomes aware that God is in him and he is in God.The only comming or going is in the mind through awareness. IMO, peace, TKQuote (Tim Kraft @ July 13 2009,00:53) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 12 2009,11:02) Quote (Jesus name follower of Christ @ July 12 2009,11:00) I think God wants true unadulterated full of joy worship and Him alone
Then Worship God and obey his son who says to worship the Father with all your heart, soul, and mind and worship the Father in spirit and truth.If you worship Jesus you don't believe in what he taught.
If one worships the Father in spirit of Truth then he is worshiping Jesus also who is the word of Truth. You can't worship Jesus without worshiping God nor can you worship God without worshiping the whole Spirit. They are one says the Spirit, the Word and the Father. There is no separation. Like fire,light,heat,flame,burn. All who believe are ONE with them. Jesus prayed that we all be ONE together. In the beginning was ONE! All that was, all that is and all that will be is from the ONE. All that exists is inclusive. All in God. God is everywhere. When one believes, he becomes aware that God is in him and he is in God.The only comming or going is in the mind through awareness. IMO, peace, TK
So do you accept Idols and the worship of saints? Think about it Idols are only representations of what a person worships and saints such as Peter are of God so if what you say is so those actions should be fine. There should be nothing wrong with worshiping Mary either. Remember you said All that exists is inclusive.How do you feel about Islam?
Jesus is clearly the Son of God, there is only one true God who is the Father.
John 6:28 Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.” 30 Therefore they said to Him, “What sign will You perform then, that we may see it and believe You? What work will You do? 31 Our fathers ate the manna in the desert; as it is written, 'He gave them bread from heaven to eat.'32 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, Moses did not give you the bread from heaven, but My Father gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
Jesus came from heaven because he came by the direct will of the Father, who is the ONLY true God. Jesus was not 1/3 of God who gave up his position in heaven to become a human being. It was NOT by the will of Jesus but by the will of the Father. Don’t you Trinitarians find it strange that Jesus said it was by the will of the Father, and not his own? Did the bread in the wilderness that came from heaven pre-exist?
34 Then they said to Him, “Lord, give us this bread always.” 35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.” 41 The Jews then complained about Him, because He said, “I am the bread which came down from heaven.” 42 And they said, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How is it then that He says, 'I have come down from heaven'?” 43 Jesus therefore answered and said to them, “Do not murmur among yourselves. 44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, 'And they shall all be taught by God.'Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me. 46 Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father. 47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.”
What makes Jesus the bread of life? The answer is definitely not because he pre-existed, and not because he chose to come to earth. Jesus didn’t CHOOSE ANYTHING, the Father, the only true God chose Jesus. The Father according to His will chose that because of one man’s sin brought death He’d have another man bring life. The Father chose to save the world through the man Jesus, and Jesus is our bread of life because through him we see the only true God the Father, and through him and his death we are given life. Jesus is being referred to as the bread from heaven, we are not being told that Jesus pre-existed. John 6 tells us just HOW it was that Jesus came from heaven, by the WILL OF the FATHER!! Neither the manna or Jesus was in heaven and then came down from heaven, they were both produced ON EARTH according to the plan and will of God or Father.
52 The Jews therefore quarreled among themselves, saying, “How can this Man give us His flesh to eat?” 53 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For My flesh is food indeed, and My blood is drink indeed. 56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me. 58 This is the bread which came down from heaven–not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.” 59 These things He said in the synagogue as He taught in Capernaum.
I don’t understand why trinitarians and pre-existent believers have to add some sort of mystic mystery to Jesus, by saying some part of him literally came down from earth. Seriously what part of the infant baby was a spirit son, or what part of the infant baby was God the Son?
Heb 2:17 Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.
The infant grew in wisdom, the infant grew in grace and knowledge, the infant grew and pleased God. The infant grew and became a man who learned obedience through suffering. What makes Jesus great, what makes him so awesome, is the fact of what Our heavenly Father could accomplish in a human being, a man just like you and me. Jesus was special not because he was MORE than human, he was special because of what our Father accomplished in him while he had corruptible flesh.
When reading the NT we should keep in mind that the writers, such as Paul wrote after the resurrection took place. The entire NT fails utterly to express the trinity. I seriously don’t understand how people can read the NT and believe in the trinity, doing such IMO means that they miss out on much of the entire message.
Romans 5:1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have* peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 3 And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance; 4 and perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5 Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us. 6 For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. 10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
I need some clarification by trinitiarians. If it takes three persons to make up the one true God, does that mean that individually they are not God, but God is formed by the three of them together? If this is so, then wouldn’t God not have existed while Jesus was a man and could of his own self do nothing? As well, when we see the word ‘God’, wouldn’t that have to then represent all three every time? So if that is the case then Jesus would then have to be his own Father? The trinity IMO makes everything rather confusing and foolish.
Scripture on the other hand is clear, unlike the Trinitarian doctrine, that Jesus is NOT God but the Son of God.11 And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconcili
ation. 12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned– 13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. 15 But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man's offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many.We should recognize the significance of what Paul is telling us here. Jesus was a man in every way like Adam was a man. What is different between these two men is their timing of existence. Man is the product of the accumulation of knowledge. Earth had no history for Adam to learn from. The Messiah was sent, as promised, to be the seed of David in a particular time in history, all according to the planning and will of YHWH our heavenly Father. Why was Jesus able to follow God whereas Adam and Eve turned away rather quickly? God was able to prove to Jesus through man’s history, man’s failures, how man could not follow the law on his own. We are a created system, and we need our Designer to show us how we should properly function. Jesus was able to trust in God because God gave him the understanding that man can do nothing good of himself. Of course as well, Jesus was able to trust in God and know His greatness and mercy because Jesus experienced himself the work of God’s hand, by being given God’s ability to do such things as heal the sick.
16 And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification. 17 For if by the one man's offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.) 18 Therefore, as through one man's offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man's righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. 19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one
Man's obedience many will be made righteous.God did not need a human god to save the world. Romans 5 is simple and clear, all He needed was flesh and blood. What our heavenly Father needed was not for a pre-existent Son or a God Son, what He needed prior to the birth of Jesus was history, without it Jesus wouldn’t have been able to grow in the grace and the knowledge that would serve to create a pure and faithful trust in God. What gives us our faith? Why do we trust in our heavenly Father?
Hi Jesus name follower of Christ,
Jesus IS a man, what do you think that means?
Do you deny Jesus came in the flesh?
Heb 2:17 Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.
Romans 5:5 But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man's offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many.
Quote (Jodi Lee @ July 14 2009,05:31) Jesus is clearly the Son of God, there is only one true God who is the Father. John 6:28 Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.” 30 Therefore they said to Him, “What sign will You perform then, that we may see it and believe You? What work will You do? 31 Our fathers ate the manna in the desert; as it is written, 'He gave them bread from heaven to eat.'32 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, Moses did not give you the bread from heaven, but My Father gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
Jesus came from heaven because he came by the direct will of the Father, who is the ONLY true God. Jesus was not 1/3 of God who gave up his position in heaven to become a human being. It was NOT by the will of Jesus but by the will of the Father. Don’t you Trinitarians find it strange that Jesus said it was by the will of the Father, and not his own? Did the bread in the wilderness that came from heaven pre-exist?
34 Then they said to Him, “Lord, give us this bread always.” 35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.” 41 The Jews then complained about Him, because He said, “I am the bread which came down from heaven.” 42 And they said, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How is it then that He says, 'I have come down from heaven'?” 43 Jesus therefore answered and said to them, “Do not murmur among yourselves. 44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, 'And they shall all be taught by God.'Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me. 46 Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father. 47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.”
What makes Jesus the bread of life? The answer is definitely not because he pre-existed, and not because he chose to come to earth. Jesus didn’t CHOOSE ANYTHING, the Father, the only true God chose Jesus. The Father according to His will chose that because of one man’s sin brought death He’d have another man bring life. The Father chose to save the world through the man Jesus, and Jesus is our bread of life because through him we see the only true God the Father, and through him and his death we are given life. Jesus is being referred to as the bread from heaven, we are not being told that Jesus pre-existed. John 6 tells us just HOW it was that Jesus came from heaven, by the WILL OF the FATHER!! Neither the manna or Jesus was in heaven and then came down from heaven, they were both produced ON EARTH according to the plan and will of God or Father.
52 The Jews therefore quarreled among themselves, saying, “How can this Man give us His flesh to eat?” 53 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For My flesh is food indeed, and My blood is drink indeed. 56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me. 58 This is the bread which came down from heaven–not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.” 59 These things He said in the synagogue as He taught in Capernaum.
I don’t understand why trinitarians and pre-existent believers have to add some sort of mystic mystery to Jesus, by saying some part of him literally came down from earth. Seriously what part of the infant baby was a spirit son, or what part of the infant baby was God the Son?
Heb 2:17 Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.
The infant grew in wisdom, the infant grew in grace and knowledge, the infant grew and pleased God. The infant grew and became a man who learned obedience through suffering. What makes Jesus great, what makes him so awesome, is the fact of what Our heavenly Father could accomplish in a human being, a man just like you and me. Jesus was special not because he was MORE than human, he was special because of what our Father accomplished in him while he had corruptible flesh.
When reading the NT we should keep in mind that the writers, such as Paul wrote after the resurrection took place. The entire NT fails utterly to express the trinity. I seriously don’t understand how people can read the NT and believe in the trinity, doing such IMO means that they miss out on much of the entire message.
Romans 5:1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have* peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 3 And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance; 4 and perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5 Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us. 6 For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. 10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
I need some clarification by trinitiarians. If it takes three persons to make up the one true God, does that mean that individually they are not God, but God is formed by the three of them together? If this is so, then wouldn’t God not have existed while Jesus was a man and could of his own self do nothing? As well, when we see the word ‘God’, wouldn’t that have to then represent all three every time? So if that is the case then Jesus would then have to be his own Father? The trinity IMO makes everything rather confusing and foolish.
Scripture on the other hand is cle
ar, unlike the Trinitarian doctrine, that Jesus is NOT God but the Son of God.11 And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation. 12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned– 13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. 15 But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man's offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many.
We should recognize the significance of what Paul is telling us here. Jesus was a man in every way like Adam was a man. What is different between these two men is their timing of existence. Man is the product of the accumulation of knowledge. Earth had no history for Adam to learn from. The Messiah was sent, as promised, to be the seed of David in a particular time in history, all according to the planning and will of YHWH our heavenly Father. Why was Jesus able to follow God whereas Adam and Eve turned away rather quickly? God was able to prove to Jesus through man’s history, man’s failures, how man could not follow the law on his own. We are a created system, and we need our Designer to show us how we should properly function. Jesus was able to trust in God because God gave him the understanding that man can do nothing good of himself. Of course as well, Jesus was able to trust in God and know His greatness and mercy because Jesus experienced himself the work of God’s hand, by being given God’s ability to do such things as heal the sick.
16 And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification. 17 For if by the one man's offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.) 18 Therefore, as through one man's offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man's righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. 19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one
Man's obedience many will be made righteous.God did not need a human god to save the world. Romans 5 is simple and clear, all He needed was flesh and blood. What our heavenly Father needed was not for a pre-existent Son or a God Son, what He needed prior to the birth of Jesus was history, without it Jesus wouldn’t have been able to grow in the grace and the knowledge that would serve to create a pure and faithful trust in God. What gives us our faith? Why do we trust in our heavenly Father?
I'll tell you something, sometimes I ask little children who Jesus is and most always they say with a big smile “The Son of God” and then I say who is God and they say “His Father” with an almost don't you knw that atitude and each time it warms my heart because that is pure Christian belief.I have never met a small child that attempted to explain to me a triune God it has never happened. However, for some reason around teen years and adult hood I start getting different irrational answers.
I love the little children.
Hi BD,
So true christian belief warms your heart.
But you would accuse Jesus and the servants of God of being half blind?
So on what basis does true christian belief stand for you if you cannot believe Jesus or the scriptures?Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 14 2009,10:22) Hi BD,
So true christian belief warms your heart.
But you would accuse Jesus and the servants of God of being half blind?
So on what basis does true christian belief stand for you if you cannot believe Jesus or the scriptures?
I do believe in Jesus and the scriptures and yes true Christian belief does warm my heart.Hi BD,
So if you met with him on the way to Emmaeus would you believe him as they did?
Why don't you believe him now?Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 14 2009,10:39) Hi BD,
So if you met with him on the way to Emmaeus would you believe him as they did?
Why don't you believe him now?
Of Course I believe Jesus and I believe that God saved him and raised him up to Himself.Hi BD,
Better go back a bit as we follow one who died on a cross.You say God approved him but you find him half blind and yourself as superior.
You must think you are greater than our God?
The Bible says one person can not be responsible for the sins of another
Deuteronomy 24 (King James Version)
16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.
2 Kings 14 (King James Version)
6 But the children of the murderers he slew not: according unto that which is written in the book of the law of Moses, wherein the LORD commanded, saying, The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, nor the children be put to death for the fathers; but every man shall be put to death for his own sin.
2 Chronicles 25 (King James Version)
4 But he slew not their children, but did as it is written in the law in the book of Moses, where the LORD commanded, saying, The fathers shall not die for the children, neither shall the children die for the fathers, but every man shall die for his own sin.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 14 2009,10:53) Hi BD,
Better go back a bit as we follow one who died on a cross.You say God approved him but you find him half blind and yourself as superior.
You must think you are greater than our God?
Isaiah 42
19 Who is blind but My servant,
Or deaf as My messenger whom I send?
Who is blind as he who is perfect,
And blind as the LORD’s servant?Who was a greater servant that Jesus?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 14 2009,11:10) Hi BD,
You cannot accept the lamb slain for your sin but that is your problem.
I did accept it for along time but really was never comfortable about it. I was happy when I found out that God saved Jesus from being killed or crucified.You seem happy that someone could die for your sins.
When I think about it thinker is more compassionate because he believes that God died for his sins which is a lot easier to believe because we all know that death is not really possible with God so it's not really like anyone died.Thefact is that Jesus Christ was a flesh and blood human who was innocent and did not sin that he should die and God whom he cried out to for salvation did in-fact save Jesus.
Everyone walks around asking each other “are you saved”?
Who wants to be saved on the back and blood of others?
I wish illwill on no one on my behalf.
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