Jesus&#39; divinity in question

Participant

Quote (JustAskin @ July 08 2010,13:57)

Arnold,

Because some cannot get around the idea that “God in the Flesh” DOESN'T mean “the Person of God in a human body”

They WANT it to mean that.

But it actually means “The embodiment of the that which God stands for” – His WORD – The Word of God became Flesh.

Quote

Why do you teach that 'God' came in the flesh and not 'the embodiment, the personification of his Word in the flesh'.

because it means the same thing, God is a spirit.

So when they teach, God came in flesh…it means just that.
————
He is a spirit.

July 14, 2010 at 8:13 pm#203851

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ July 08 2010,07:16)

Hi RokkaMan,

YHVH's word is YHVH! Why do you go about to (try) make his word his Son?

Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Because his word was manifested in flesh, and we beheld the (glory) flesh as The Only Begotten of The Father (The Son).

John 1.

July 14, 2010 at 8:33 pm#203854

Participant

Quote (barley @ July 08 2010,09:25)

Quote (RokkaMan @ June 29 2010,09:02)

I pulled this from another section of this website.

The section was examining if the trinity doctrince was IN scripture.

I do not support the trinity doctrine but I would like to examine the claims.

The section was stating Jesus is not God and gave these examples to understand who Jesus is.

Quote

God has spoken to us through the Prophets and now his Son.
See Hebrews 1:1-6
The Son is the exact brightness of Gods glory.
See Hebrews 1:1-6
He is the image of the invisible God.
See Colossians 1:12-16
God sustains all things by his Word (Jesus is the Word of God).
See Hebrews 1:1-6 & John 1:1
He is seated at the right hand of God.
See Colossians 3:1-3
He inherited a name more superior to the Angels.
See Hebrews 1:1-6
He is worthy to be worshipped by Angels.
See Hebrews 1:1-6
God became a Father when he begat his son “You are my Son, today I have become your Father”.
See Hebrews 1:1-6
He is the Firstborn from the Dead.
See Revelation 1:4-6
Jesus has first place in everything.
Jesus is head over the Church.
See Ephesians 1:22
He is Gods firstborn.
See Hebrews 1:1-6
Jesus is the Ruler or Beginning of the Creation of God.
See Revelation 3:14
Jesus is begotten, not created.
See John 1:3

I'd like to touch these real quick.

——-

First off I agree with all of it, but here's my position in understanding Jesus' divinity.

The list states he's worthy to be worshipped by angels.
Not only Angels but everyone…for every knee shall bow before the lamb.

According to the OT, only God is worthy of worship.

I'd also like to add that Jesus is The alpha and Omega.

According to the OT, only God is The Alpha and Omega.

Jesus was not created, he was begotten.

Everything else besides Jesus, we know to be created, this helps us understand that he came from YHVH's very own flesh/fabric/essence as oppose to being made

He is the exact brightness of YHVH's glory.

Who could amount to God's glory but God himself? You can't match perfection, only God can match perfection

He is the image of the invisible God
This doesn't say he was made in the image or likeness, it says that HE IS the image.

Now I can touch on each one and it all fits perfectly into my cause, but I think I have sufficient imagery to prove my point.

If Jesus was but a mere man, all of christianity is in jeopardy for commiting the highest form of idolatry.

But as we know, we don't use man's mistakes to condemn God.

This issue however, also provides plenty of contradictions within the bible itself.

Jesus said he did not come to abolish the law but to fufill it.

Whereas the law condemns, Jesus atones.

Atonement doesn't change the law.

So if God said something in the OT…it is just as much valid as it is today than it was 4 thousand years ago!

If Jesus was but a mere man, all these statements would be blasphemy and idolatry.

(do i have to illustrate?)

but if Jesus is a manifestation of YHVH…it all makes perfect genius sense.

See because a manifestation is just that, a manifestation.

If you want to be successful, and you manifest your success with a good career. Is your career success itself?

Absolutely not, but it's a reflection of success.

In the same way if you manifest happiness with going to the park.

Is the park happiness itself?

Nope, but a reflection of that happiness.

———-

In the same light, if God manifested as Jesus Christ…does it make Jesus Christ YHVH himself?

Nope, but purely a reflection thereof.

—–

So what does it mean?

Jesus is a manifestation of YHVH himself which means he is NOT YHVH himself but only a reflection of.

—-

Is that understanding consistent with scripture?
Well lets see.

…. Well i was going to list all the conflicting scripture side by side so you can see the picture i'm trying to paint, but instead i'll just say them.

The word of god was with god and is god.

If YHVH is God only, a manifestation can co-exist with it's source…in the same way a mirror with your image can co-exist with you.

In the beginning was the image, the image was with god, and the image WAS God
1 tim 3:16 God was manifest in flesh…
This one explicitely states my point.

Everything was made by Jesus' hand (creation attributed to the son) even though God said in the OT he made the worlds

Well if the manifestation only does as he sees the source doing…then it makes perfect sense that God created everything, THROUGH Jesus Christ.

We have only one God

Yup, works here too…One God, different manifestations.

YHVH will not share his glory with another

Well if you pray to the manifestation, you are praying to the source in the same light as if I say hello to you via a mirror, i'm not talking to the mirror, but the person reflected in the mirror….

So long as I don't believe that YOU ARE THE MIRROR, in which I do not believe Jesus is YHVH but only a manifestation of

hhhmm, what else…

God is spirit

Duhhhh, he's invisible. everything visible comes from the invisible… including manifestations.

I'm running out of contradictions… =/

Jesus is God

well a manifestation is only an image of…Jesus is God in the sense of title. The almighty most high God is reserved for YHVH alone. The image and manifestation just isn't The Almighty Most High….

—-

So I conclude.

I believe the issue between anti-trinitarians and people like me who believe Jesus is God has always been communication.

I guess i've never done a good job of portraying that YHVH is Jesus even though Jesus is not YHVH.

I guess the best way to describe my understanding is…

YHVH has ALWAYS and forever been IN JESUS.

The application shows that they are not the same being, but to always be connected and tied since and always forever is beyond human comprehension…so much so that their beings would seem so similar that it would appear as they are one in the same.

So much so, that even YHVH himself shares his glory, not as The Most High but in every other way.

does anyone disagree?
please read the post before you do…

You provide an interesting post. Let us work together to clarify a few things.

Regarding worship, there are, in the New T., six different words in the Greek that are translated worship. Each must be viewed by their meaning and how they are used in the scripture. For instance, one word for worship, proskuneo, is used in scripture for worship to God, Jesus Christ and in I Corinthians 14:25, believers who prophesy. One way this word, proskuneo, is defined is, to reverence or pay homage to any one. God is certainly most deserving of reverence and homage, and Jesus Christ is worthy of reverence and homage, and according to scripture so are those believers who prophesy.

Why did God choose t
o use the word proskuneo in I Corinthians? Because believers who prophecy are worthy of reverence and homage. Therefore, we cannot conclude that worship, ie, reverence and homage is sufficient cause to conclude that some one is God or was with God before that person's conception and birth.

I have not looked up the verse that says that only God is A and O, in the OT. However, consider that since Jesus Christ was not yet in existence until his conception and birth, Matthew 1:18, God did not have anyone else to delegate this responsibility to.. In the New Testament, not only is God the A and O , but so is JC.

God does delegate responsibility that He has to others. See II Corinthians 5:18. God reconciled us to himself by JC and now we have been given the ministry of reconciliation. verse 19 says that we have been given the word of reconciliation with which to carry out our ministry of reconciliation. That word of reconciliation is God's word, the scripture, the logos.

How do you know that Jesus Christ's coming into existence did not somehow include an act of creation? Since, Mary was of the lineage of David, and JC had to be of the lineage of David to inherit David's throne, how did the egg in the womb of Mary become impregnated, unless a sperm cell was there to impregnate it? Since God is the father of Jesus Christ, and God is spirit, and we know certainly that God did not have sex with Mary, how did that sperm cell get there? Did God create it? If He did not, how did it get there?

Does having the brightness of the glory of God make that person God? No, no more than some one else testing out to having an IQ equal to your IQ, make that person you. I am sure that there are many people that have the same IQ as you, but you are the only you. I am not suggesting that God and Jesus Christ had the same IQ, but a manifestation of God is not God, or make that manifestation equal to God. Again, God loves, God commands us to love, when we love are we God? No, we do manifest God's love. We must keep these things clear and distinct.

Why do you bring the word perfection in? For instance, God is holy, therefore we are to be holy. When we achieve some degree of holiness, does that make us God? or if we achieve one percent of God's holiness, does that make us one percent God?

Jesus Christ achieved everything his Father wanted for him to achieve. Yes, JC is the brightness of His glory.

Being the image of the invisible God does not make a person God.

I have the image of my lady friend on my computer. Does that mean my computer is my lady friend? Jesus Christ was shown a coin with the image of Caesar on it. Does that image of Caesar make that coin Caesar? The coin is inferior to Caerar. No, but it does indicate who issued it.
You could say God issued Jesus Christ to pay for the sins of the world.

Who is is that suggests that because Jesus Christ is not God, that he is relegated to being a mere man?

How about we find out who is a mere man?

Jesus Christ healed many lepers. How many have you healed?

Jesus Christ healed blind people. How many blind people have you healed?

Jesus Christ healed the lame. How many lame have you healed?

Jesus Christ raised people from the dead. How many people have you raised from the dead?

Jesus Christ always did his father's will. Do you always do your heavenly Father's will?

Jesus Christ is the lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the world. How many sins have you taken away?

Jesus Christ is the way the truth and the life. Who are you?

Jesus Christ walked on water. Have you walked on water?

God ascended Jesus Christ to sit at his own right hand. Has God ascended you?

Does Jesus Christ sound like a mere man to you?

He us everything I want in life and ever want to be in life.

I have not achieved one tenth of what he has done.

How much of what he has done have you achieved?

Jesus Christ is a man, and yes, Christianity has been guilty of idolatry. See Romans 1:23. The misguided theologians throughout the centuries have misguided many, many people. They have taken a man, God's man, and made a God out of him.

However, it is the preachers and teachers that are in greater error.

If God said something in the Old Testament, we have to be careful that we understand the context in which it was spoken.

If we do not, we might overreach God's intended purpose for saying something. God told Adam and Eve not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good an evil. That applied to A and E only, it does not apply to us, for the obvious reason that we are not in the garden of eden.. So like wise many of the truths in the OT, we must be aware of the context in which they were spoken. We certainly can learn from that incident, ie, let's stick with God's commandments and not let ourselves get talked out of doing them.

Jesus Christ, is as you say, a manifestation of God, just like the burning bush was a manifestation of God to Moses, like the angel of the Lord in the burning bush was a manifestation of God to Moses, like the scriptures, the word of God is a manifestation of God to us. All men and women, the heavens and the earth are manifestations of God. Without God, none of things would exist, not even Jesus Christ.

John 1:1 does not have the word image in it, it is the word, the logos, the communication of what God is all about, that is God, was with God and is God.

Even as I know nothing about you except for your words, God's words are what communicates God to us. When we believe God's words, our lives become a manifestation of some of what God is about. Jesus Christ was the perfect manifestation of what God wanted revealed in Christ. Yet Jesus Christ is not a complete manifestation of God, because Jesus Christ does not know all things that God knows. How much you know about God and live in your life is how much you are a manifestation of God.

I Timothy 3:16, in the Stephens text contains a forgery. The word in the KJV, that is translated God, was not the original word in the Stephens text, the original word is the word, which. Great is the mystery of godliness, which was manifested in the flesh. The original world there could easily be modified from the word which to a word indicating God, ho to hos, which is evidently a contraction for the word for God, theos.

In no scripture does it say that Jesus Christ created anything. For instance, in Hebrews 1:1-3, people misread the passage. God made the worlds by JC, it does not say the JC made the worlds. God figured in JC when God made the worlds but JC did not exist when God made the worlds. God made the worlds by JC, because God in His foreknowledge knew that man would need a redeemer before God even started, so He made the worlds with our redeemer in mind.

Jesus Christ had been glorified by God. God did this because JC earned it. God glorified Moses, cause M earned it. God foreknew that JC would earn it. Therefore, JC could speak of this glory having been since before the world began.

Very Good Post Barley,

However, it's impossible to respond to it point by point so i'll summarize the best I can.

The first half of your post was great, I can understand the charge against me if I had of said Jesus is YHVH.

but I have not

I've only said he's the manifestation of YHVH, in the same but probably greater likes than the burning bush or angel of the lord.

So the first half of your charge was pointless directed to me, but probably usefull directed to a triniarian.

You did later agree that he is a manifestation in those respects and I certainly agree.
———————————–
Nick Hassan is one of the many people who
have “labeled'
Jesus Christ a mere man, and some others have used the same words.

I get completely offended when my christ is called a mere man. He has a supreme deity above all angels, and the next best thing closest to God, before, during and after earth.

So I agree here, he's not god and not a mere man.

————————————
When you say everything is a manifestation of God, i cannot agree. I can agree that, everything GOOD is a manifestation of god…but i cannot agree that God is expressing himself in everything. A manifestation is an expression of the source.

If you play on the playground, it is a manifestation or expression of fun.

Jesus Christ, The Angel of the Lord, The burning Bush were all manifestations or expressions of God himself.

Mankind and everything else, CAN manifest God and express his person through our actions, but we aren't the actual solidified manifestation.

The difference is permanence as oppose to temporality.

———————-

I do believe we are not to revere Jesus Christ AS God or Equal, but to revere him as …The Son of God.

The title – The Son of God, would be literally understood as it is mentioned.

He is the heir to God himself, he is the next greatest being in existence after YHVH himself.

And he is to be our ruler and lord.

The same way the president of the USA is our ruler, but he is governed by a greater power.

——————–

To further elaborate, I believe Jesus Christ is The Word of God in flesh.

The Word of God, is God Revealed to creation.

God cannot fully revealed himself to creation because we are finite and he is infinite.

So what is revealed is limited not by God, but by creations ability to perceive.

Therefore Jesus Christ being God Revealed to creation, is the embodiment of God, limited to our perception of YHVH.

Does that make JC, YHVH? absolutely not because he is what we can only perceive of YHVH, in that YHVH himself is to vast to be perceived.

Almost like looking in a mirror.

A mirror would reveal your 2 dimensional image, yet in the real world you are a 3 dimensional being.

YHVH transcending all of that, has revealed himself via His Word (The Word of God) and further manifested his word, in the person of Jesus Christ permenantly.

This is my belief.

It doesn't make Jesus equal to or God himself, but it keeps him as The Son of God.

It also reconciles the bible entirely without any contradictions.

July 14, 2010 at 8:34 pm#203855

Participant

If God has the nature of a god and He begat a Son of the same nature, then the Son has the nature of a god and the Son that is a god by nature became flesh, then a god became flesh. This would be Emmanuel…the god with us. The Son is god by nature, but God of God…capital G…because of His Father's exalting His position to the same level…at the Father's right hand . IMO

July 14, 2010 at 8:47 pm#203858

Participant

Hi LU,
Logic does not cut it.
God was IN Christ

July 14, 2010 at 9:08 pm#203863

Participant

Quote (Lightenup @ July 15 2010,07:34)

Nick, I charge against your methods… if you're going to condemn LU then do so with elaboration…don't just condemn.

That's like spanking a child without telling them why?

——–

LU, YHVH revealed himself to creation.
His revelation was in the form of communication.

YHVH actually spoke.

and when he spoke….”Let there be”

Creation took place.

That speaking of YHVH is known as The Word of God.

The Word of God…is god revealing himself to creation.

The Word of God, or God Revealing himself…manifested in flesh.

That flesh was to become Jesus Christ.

When Mary conceived, it was then that Jesus Christ became a Son to YHVH.

The reason he was and is the only begotten of the father, because he is the communication or Word of The Father.

So yes I agree that he was cut from the same cloth of The Father's fabric.

but that does not make him The Father.

The spirit that dwelled in Jesus Christ (The Word of God) was just as much God as YHVH himself…but it is NOT YHVH himself, it is HIS WORDS.

Words, intellect, love, hate all proceed from the spirit.

God is spirit.

If he spoke, his words proceeded from him.

What proceeded, was manifested IN flesh and we beheld the being as The Only Begotten of The Father.

So YHVH's words are YHVH revealing himself to creation.

Since creation can only perceive what is revealed…Jesus Christ is the highest we can possible perceive of YHVH himself.

YHVH himself is too infinite and vast to be perceived, so we can only perceive what he reveals…

What he reveals is known as His Word, and his word has been manifested in the person of Jesus Christ.

———

So in short, Jesus is not a god, or god himself…he is exactly who he says he is…The Son of God.

A manifestation of YHVH himself, a perfect image, or reflection of “The Source”

but he is not “The Source” himself.
———
So if God has the nature of a God, and begat a son of the same nature…then the son so to is a god in respects to creation.

Yes I agree.

But it doesn't make him the same supreme God that is YHVH.

There is only 1 real God, everything else can be titled A GOD, but we are to understand that there are NO GODS BEFORE YHVH.

July 14, 2010 at 9:53 pm#203869

Participant

Hi RM,
LU and I go back a long way.
You are new on the scene.

July 14, 2010 at 10:55 pm#203877

Participant

Quote (RokkaMan @ July 14 2010,16:08)

Quote (Lightenup @ July 15 2010,07:34)

Nick, I charge against your methods… if you're going to condemn LU then do so with elaboration…don't just condemn.

That's like spanking a child without telling them why?

——–

LU, YHVH revealed himself to creation.
His revelation was in the form of communication.

YHVH actually spoke.

and when he spoke….”Let there be”

Creation took place.

That speaking of YHVH is known as The Word of God.

The Word of God…is god revealing himself to creation.

The Word of God, or God Revealing himself…manifested in flesh.

That flesh was to become Jesus Christ.

When Mary conceived, it was then that Jesus Christ became a Son to YHVH.

The reason he was and is the only begotten of the father, because he is the communication or Word of The Father.

So yes I agree that he was cut from the same cloth of The Father's fabric.

but that does not make him The Father.

The spirit that dwelled in Jesus Christ (The Word of God) was just as much God as YHVH himself…but it is NOT YHVH himself, it is HIS WORDS.

Words, intellect, love, hate all proceed from the spirit.

God is spirit.

If he spoke, his words proceeded from him.

What proceeded, was manifested IN flesh and we beheld the being as The Only Begotten of The Father.

So YHVH's words are YHVH revealing himself to creation.

Since creation can only perceive what is revealed…Jesus Christ is the highest we can possible perceive of YHVH himself.

YHVH himself is too infinite and vast to be perceived, so we can only perceive what he reveals…

What he reveals is known as His Word, and his word has been manifested in the person of Jesus Christ.

———

So in short, Jesus is not a god, or god himself…he is exactly who he says he is…The Son of God.

A manifestation of YHVH himself, a perfect image, or reflection of “The Source”

but he is not “The Source” himself.
———
So if God has the nature of a God, and begat a son of the same nature…then the son so to is a god in respects to creation.

Yes I agree.

But it doesn't make him the same supreme God that is YHVH.

There is only 1 real God, everything else can be titled A GOD, but we are to understand that there are NO GODS BEFORE YHVH.

Rokkaman,
If God's word was all it took for things to exist why does God say it was by His outstretched arm or by the Son's hand, etc.?

Jer 27:5
5 “I have made the earth, the men and the beasts which are on the face of the earth by My great power and by My outstretched arm, and I will give it to the one who is pleasing in My sight.
NASU

Heb 1:10
10 And, “YOU, LORD, IN THE BEGINNING LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH, AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS;
NASU

I do think there is something that you are missing by your understanding of John 1 and the word of God.

Let me tell you what I think that it means…when I speak, my kids respond. Like, when I say to my daughter, “Please empty the dishwasher.” Guess what, the dishwasher gets emptied just by me speaking in a sense. In a fuller sense, I speak and my daughter responds accordingly. Don't you think that creation was more like the Father speaking and the Son responding accordingly?

Words do not have hands or outstretched arms.

Is it possible that the Son is called the Word of God because He was what the first word of God…i.e. the light? After all, He is before all things according to:

Col 1:17-18
17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.
18 He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.
NASU

“Let there be Light” was the word of God before all other words of God. Light was the firstborn of all creation in a sense and also the beginning of all creation.

I believe that the Son of God was begotten before the ages and much later begotten as the Son of Man who was fathered by God. If He wasn't the actual Son of God until He came from Mary, then He wouldn't be able to be the Son who all things in heaven and on earth were created by.

Col 1:13-16
13 For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son,
14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities — all things have been created through Him and for Him.
NASU

Rokkaman,
You are a son of a man.
Therefore you are a man.

You are the image of your father, not because he spoke you into being an image of him but because you are the fruit of his procreative power.

I believe that the Son of God is the image of His Father, not because He is a word spoken but because He was actually begotten as the first fruit of the procreation power of the Father.

I also believe that the Son was given the name of His Father YHVH.

The Son is not the Father who is the Most High God but is God because that is what an actual offspring of the Most High God would be…a man would not be an actual offspring of the Most High God in a true sense. He became a man because He lowered Himself to fulfill a mission.

So, in short, Jesus was the Son of God before He became the man Jesus from Mary.

The Son of God is much more than a reflection or an image…He is and was a Son.

There is one true God and one true God of God. Together they are of one purpose, and one nature. Together they are over you and me and far above any authority.

The word that became flesh was a supernatural son that created all things in heaven and on earth and that exchanged a heavenly body for an earthly body and took on all the limits of a human baby son.

July 14, 2010 at 11:01 pm#203879

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 14 2010,15:47)

Hi LU,
Logic does not cut it.
God was IN Christ

Nick,

Rom 1:20
20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.
NASU

We can understand things through what has been made, i.e. fathers and sons and like begets like.

July 14, 2010 at 11:06 pm#203882

Participant

Hi LU,
God has all power and He gave that anointing to Jesus CHRIST at the Jordan

July 14, 2010 at 11:10 pm#203883

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 14 2010,18:06)

Hi LU,
God has all power and He gave that anointing to Jesus CHRIST at the Jordan

Nick,
The power He gave at the Jordan was what He had before He came as a man but emptied Himself of. He has a history as a Son before the conception within Mary. That is something nobody else can say. You didn't have a history already before you came as a baby.

July 14, 2010 at 11:50 pm#203891

Arnold

Participant

Quote (JustAskin @ July 08 2010,13:57)

Arnold,

Because some cannot get around the idea that “God in the Flesh” DOESN'T mean “the Person of God in a human body”

They WANT it to mean that.

But it actually means “The embodiment of the that which God stands for” – His WORD – The Word of God became Flesh.

Jesus was in the flesh John 1:1 and verse 14 and Rev. 19:13 and verse 14to verse 16 explains it all. He was flesh and blood and died for our sins. Is that good enough for you….. In the body flesh and blood…. He emptied Himself and became like a Servant….Phil. 2:5 when I said God in the flesh, I mean that Jesus also is called God. John 1:1 and Hebrew 1:8 He is the Mighty God and not the Almighty God. He is King of Kings and Lord of Lord and not LORD Almighty God, See the difference…… In the Old Testament LORD is always in Capital Letters. It means that is the Almighty God our Heavenly Father…. Jesus is not above God the Father by His own word in John 14:28 and in Ephesians 4:6 the Father is above all.
Peace to you, Irene

July 14, 2010 at 11:57 pm#203892

Participant

Hi LU,
Really,
Do you have scriptural support or just your view of Phil2?

July 14, 2010 at 11:58 pm#203893

Arnold

Participant

Quote (Lightenup @ July 15 2010,07:34)

Hey, good to see you here how are you doing….. I agree and my next post says about the same thing. God in the flesh….. great post…Love to you and yours Irene

July 15, 2010 at 12:07 am#203897

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 14 2010,18:57)

Hi LU,
Really,
Do you have scriptural support or just your view of Phil2?

Nick,
Ask God to show you His meaning of Phil 2.

July 15, 2010 at 12:09 am#203898

Participant

Quote (Arnold @ July 14 2010,18:58)

Quote (Lightenup @ July 15 2010,07:34)

Hey, good to see you here how are you doing….. I agree and my next post says about the same thing. God in the flesh….. great post…Love to you and yours Irene

Hi Irene,
I'm glad to be back, I think
It is good to see you back as well.

I'm doing fine. God is my healer
Thanks, K

July 15, 2010 at 1:27 am#203911

Participant

Hi LU,
So that is all you have?

July 15, 2010 at 1:46 am#203915

Participant

Nick,
No matter if I show you several scriptures…you will doubt. You will learn better to go to God directly and let Him explain.

July 15, 2010 at 2:12 am#203917