Jesus Christ revealing himself to muslims

[Ed J]

Jesus Christ revealing Himself to Muslims

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Ed J @ July 23 2013,20:10)

Jesus Christ revealing Himself to Muslims

God is Great! I find nothing wrong with this because listening to all the stories it reminds me of many Christians who grow up “Christian” but they are far removed from knowing their religion it is the same with Muslims many do not know their religion it is just what they were born and taught as.

Many strict Christian families have children growing up saying they thought God was wrathful…etc

Finding your way to God is never a bad thing. In the end your intentions will be rewarded for good or bad.

[bodhitharta]

Do people think that they will be left alone on saying, “We believe,” and not be tried? We did test those before them, and God will certainly know those who are true from those who are false. [Quran 29:2-3]

[Ed J]

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 24 2013,12:09)

Do people think that they will be left alone on saying, “We believe,” and not be tried? We did test those before them, and God will certainly know those who are true from those who are false. [Quran 29:2-3]

Too bad you don't yet realize that the quran is from satan and is false.

[Ed J]

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 24 2013,12:07)

Quote (Ed J @ July 23 2013,20:10) Jesus Christ revealing Himself to Muslims God is Great! I find nothing wrong with this because listening to all the stories it reminds me of many Christians who grow up “Christian” but they are far removed from knowing their religion it is the same with Muslims many do not know their religion it is just what they were born and taught as. Many strict Christian families have children growing up saying they thought God was wrathful…etc Finding your way to God is never a bad thing. In the end your intentions will be rewarded for good or bad.

Hi BD,

Rarely do we agree, so it is gratifying when we do.  

B'shem
YHVH

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Ed J @ July 24 2013,13:29)

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 24 2013,12:07) Quote (Ed J @ July 23 2013,20:10) Jesus Christ revealing Himself to Muslims God is Great! I find nothing wrong with this because listening to all the stories it reminds me of many Christians who grow up “Christian” but they are far removed from knowing their religion it is the same with Muslims many do not know their religion it is just what they were born and taught as. Many strict Christian families have children growing up saying they thought God was wrathful…etc Finding your way to God is never a bad thing. In the end your intentions will be rewarded for good or bad. Hi BD, Rarely do we agree, so it is gratifying when we do.   B'shem YHVH

[Wakeup]

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 24 2013,14:50)

Quote (Ed J @ July 24 2013,13:29) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 24 2013,12:07) Quote (Ed J @ July 23 2013,20:10) Jesus Christ revealing Himself to Muslims God is Great! I find nothing wrong with this because listening to all the stories it reminds me of many Christians who grow up “Christian” but they are far removed from knowing their religion it is the same with Muslims many do not know their religion it is just what they were born and taught as. Many strict Christian families have children growing up saying they thought God was wrathful…etc Finding your way to God is never a bad thing. In the end your intentions will be rewarded for good or bad. Hi BD, Rarely do we agree, so it is gratifying when we do.   B'shem YHVH

Boditharta.

Muslems must use force;because spiritually they are weak. The power is not in the spirit of the qur'an,but in the power of force,and threats.

wakeup.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Wakeup @ Aug. 03 2013,06:53)

Boditharta. Muslems must use force;because spiritually they are weak. The power is not in the spirit of the qur'an,but in the power of force,and threats. wakeup.

That doesn't make sense the Quran doesn't even allow for forced conversions

“Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects Taghut (evil) and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trust worthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. ” (Qur'an 2:256)

Proof of this is everywhere Muslims live alongside Christians in in All predominantly Muslim countries if what you said were true this would be impossible.

————————————————–

A clear view of history — from the early beginnings of Islam to the present day — will help correct the above misconceptions. Muslims know that in the seventh century, Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) allowed a group of visiting Christians to pray in his mosque in Medina, and the caliph Omar, the second Muslim caliph after the death of the Prophet, granted the Christians of Jerusalem full rights to live and worship and even helped repair their churches, which were damaged due to neglect under Byzantine rule. Note that the actions of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, and for most Muslims the first four caliphs after him, are viewed in Islam as sources of jurisprudence (Islamic law, or Shari’ah). Coercively converting a Christian was out of the question since it was explicitly forbidden in the Qur’an (2:256).

Historians agree that Christians have always been allowed to worship and build their churches on Muslim lands from Muhammad’s time to this day*. In precolonial times, they were also allowed to live by their own laws within their communities. If they wished not to use Shari’ah, they were not compelled: That was a step ahead of the contemporary American version of tolerance that maintains the Law of the Land over minority communities. Knowing all of this makes Muslims view the West’s repetitive descriptions — of Christians living in Muslim countries as being persecuted and oppressed because of their religion — as quite strange and unfounded.

http://engagemn.com/2008/05/31/christians-in-the-muslim-world/

——————————————————-

[Wakeup]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 03 2013,09:50)

Quote (Wakeup @ Aug. 03 2013,06:53) Boditharta. Muslems must use force;because spiritually they are weak. The power is not in the spirit of the qur'an,but in the power of force,and threats. wakeup. That doesn't make sense the Quran doesn't even allow for forced conversions “Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects Taghut (evil) and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trust worthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. ” (Qur'an 2:256) Proof of this is everywhere Muslims live alongside Christians in in All predominantly Muslim countries if what you said were true this would be impossible. ————————————————– A clear view of history — from the early beginnings of Islam to the present day — will help correct the above misconceptions. Muslims know that in the seventh century, Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) allowed a group of visiting Christians to pray in his mosque in Medina, and the caliph Omar, the second Muslim caliph after the death of the Prophet, granted the Christians of Jerusalem full rights to live and worship and even helped repair their churches, which were damaged due to neglect under Byzantine rule. Note that the actions of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, and for most Muslims the first four caliphs after him, are viewed in Islam as sources of jurisprudence (Islamic law, or Shari’ah). Coercively converting a Christian was out of the question since it was explicitly forbidden in the Qur’an (2:256). Historians agree that Christians have always been allowed to worship and build their churches on Muslim lands from Muhammad’s time to this day*. In precolonial times, they were also allowed to live by their own laws within their communities. If they wished not to use Shari’ah, they were not compelled: That was a step ahead of the contemporary American version of tolerance that maintains the Law of the Land over minority communities. Knowing all of this makes Muslims view the West’s repetitive descriptions — of Christians living in Muslim countries as being persecuted and oppressed because of their religion — as quite strange and unfounded. http://engagemn.com/2008/05/31/christians-in-the-muslim-world/ ——————————————————-

Boditharta.

You are quoting the qur'an; of course all is good in there.
This is always the case with all religions;only to draw them in,then close the trap.

Muslems dont follow what they preach.
May be in the old days muslems are more tolerant,
but as of these last days it is almost impossible for a muslem to turn to some other religion,without fear of
revenge. They love to revenge.

I know this;because I know many that love to change to christians,but are afraid of the consequences.

You can not rely on their words.

Speaking of tolerance; try to dress as you are coming to visit a muslem country;and you will be told to dress as they do. Yes tolerance to them,but not necessary them to us. Try to build a church in arabia;and see what sort of tolerance they have?
Arabia the holy land of the muslems. Words and nothing but empty words.

wakeup.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Wakeup @ Aug. 03 2013,16:44)

Boditharta. You are quoting the qur'an; of course all is good in there. This is always the case with all religions;only to draw them in,then close the trap. Muslems dont follow what they preach. May be in the old days muslems are more tolerant, but as of these last days it is almost impossible for a muslem to turn to some other religion,without fear of revenge. They love to revenge. I know this;because I know many that love to change to christians,but are afraid of the consequences. You can not rely on their words. Speaking of tolerance; try to dress as you are coming to visit a muslem country;and you will be told to dress as they do. Yes tolerance to them,but not necessary them to us. Try to build a church in arabia;and see what sort of tolerance they have? Arabia the holy land of the muslems. Words and nothing but empty words. wakeup.

You are confusing state policies with religious people. Let m explain:

In America you can set up a “Gay” church and have a gay parade with gays and lesbian walking along kissing disrobing showing off sex toys…etc

In Saudi Arabia you cannot do this, as a Christian which is better?

Now when you are in a morally strict country people still sin but they certainly are afraid to broadcast and flaunt their sin like they do here in america.

In Christianity especially in America the backbone of their morality is broken except but a few. Casual sex, excessive drinking, over eating, extreme passion for all things violent or sexual.

But it is not Christianity itself that is th problem it is the American culture. Christianity doesn't support divorce anyet the divorce rate in this Christian country is super high. Watch television and you see irreverent acts regarding Jesus everyday een on cartoon shows such as Family Guy and South Park. You think it's wrong when someon draws a line and says we are not going to let you denigrate the prophet Muhammad and you see very little people doing it but the Christians here laugh at disgusting jokes about Jesus

The point is do you really want an anything goes society?

[Ed J]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 03 2013,09:50)

Quote (Wakeup @ Aug. 03 2013,06:53) Boditharta. Muslems must use force;because spiritually they are weak. The power is not in the spirit of the qur'an,but in the power of force,and threats. wakeup. That doesn't make sense the Quran doesn't even allow for forced conversions “Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects Taghut (evil) and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trust worthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. ” (Qur'an 2:256)

Hi BD,

That verse has been abrogated what it says in sura 9
AND YOU KNOW IT; are you now trying to be deceptive?

Ed (witness)

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 04 2013,08:42)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 03 2013,09:50) Quote (Wakeup @ Aug. 03 2013,06:53) Boditharta. Muslems must use force;because spiritually they are weak. The power is not in the spirit of the qur'an,but in the power of force,and threats. wakeup. That doesn't make sense the Quran doesn't even allow for forced conversions “Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects Taghut (evil) and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trust worthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. ” (Qur'an 2:256) Hi BD, That verse has been abrogated what it says in sura 9 AND YOU KNOW IT; are you now trying to be deceptive? Ed (witness)

What are you talking about? You must misunderstand?

[Ed J]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 04 2013,09:50)

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 04 2013,08:42) Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 03 2013,09:50) Quote (Wakeup @ Aug. 03 2013,06:53) Boditharta. Muslems must use force;because spiritually they are weak. The power is not in the spirit of the qur'an,but in the power of force,and threats. wakeup. That doesn't make sense the Quran doesn't even allow for forced conversions “Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects Taghut (evil) and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trust worthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. ” (Qur'an 2:256) Hi BD, That verse has been abrogated what it says in sura 9 AND YOU KNOW IT; are you now trying to be deceptive? Ed (witness) What are you talking about? You must misunderstand?

You are a muslim and you don't know the islamic principal of abrogation?

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 04 2013,12:32)

You are a muslim and you don't know the islamic principal of abrogation?

And when We substitute a verse in place of a verse – and Allah is most knowing of what He sends down – they say, “You, [O Muhammad], are but an inventor [of lies].” But most of them do not know.

( سورة النحل , An-Nahl, Chapter #16, Verse #101)

You simply do not understand do you think th theBibl doesnot do the same thing?

Matthew 5:38-39

New International Version (NIV)

38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’[a] 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also.

Obviously this was a case of abrogation and in the Quran initially thy were following this but th command came down

permission [to fight] has been given to those who are being fought, because they were wronged. And indeed, Allah is competent to give them victory.

( سورة الحج , Al-Hajj, Chapter #22, Verse #39)

Jesus was abrogating all the time

Matthew 5:27-28

New International Version (NIV)

Adultery

27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’[a] 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

When God sends his messengers He gives them the information and guidance that is appropriate for them

Ecclesiastes 3:8
a time to love and a time to hate, a time for war and a time for peace.

If you don't believe in abrogation then you can't accept Christ Jesus because he said

Matthew 15:24
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel

and

Matthew 10:5-7

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

another abrogation

2 Timothy 1:11
whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.

This is why you don't accept Islam or the Prophet Muhammad it's because you don't understand that God sends down what HE wills in stages

So understanding what this means doesn't mean God never meat for people to be stoned for adultery but the difference of the people of that command were different than the ones Jesus confronted when he prevented the stoning of the adulterer the difference being this:

When Moses were with the people they witnessed God firsthand they had 100% guidance and had no excuse to sin whatsoever and God was clear HE chosethem to be a HOLY nation. By the time Jesus came they were so unjust and hypocritical that it wouldn't be right to stone someon for adultery. Remember he didn't say “Stop” or “This is wrong” he simply offered the person without sin to cast the first stone and her accusers repented from stoning her.

Jesus NEVER said anything was wrong with the law but he abrogated former verses to give some advantage to those not in power becase whenever law is corrupted it is always the poor and weak that suffers the most.

It's just like the Taliban and other rogue Muslim groups they misapply the Quran for their own purpose and the poor straps the bomb to his chest so his family can eat.

I hope this helps

[Ed J]

Sura 9 tells muslims to kill those who reject islam.

[Wakeup]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 04 2013,13:18)

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 04 2013,12:32) You are a muslim and you don't know the islamic principal of abrogation? And when We substitute a verse in place of a verse – and Allah is most knowing of what He sends down – they say, “You, [O Muhammad], are but an inventor [of lies].” But most of them do not know. (  سورة النحل  , An-Nahl, Chapter #16, Verse #101) You simply do not understand do you think th theBibl doesnot do the same thing? Matthew 5:38-39 New International Version (NIV) 38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’[a] 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. Obviously this was a case of abrogation and in the Quran initially thy were following this but th command came down permission [to fight] has been given to those who are being fought, because they were wronged. And indeed, Allah is competent to give them victory. (  سورة الحج  , Al-Hajj, Chapter #22, Verse #39) Jesus was abrogating all the time Matthew 5:27-28 New International Version (NIV) Adultery 27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’[a] 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. When God sends his messengers  He gives them the information and guidance that is appropriate for them Ecclesiastes 3:8 a time to love and a time to hate, a time for war and a time for peace. If you don't believe in abrogation then you can't accept Christ Jesus because he said Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel and Matthew 10:5-7 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV) 5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: another abrogation 2 Timothy 1:11 whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles. This is why you don't accept Islam or the Prophet Muhammad it's because you don't understand that God sends down what HE wills in stages So understanding what this means doesn't mean God never meat for people to be stoned for adultery but the difference of the people of that command were different than the ones Jesus confronted when he prevented the stoning of the adulterer the difference being this: When Moses were with the people they witnessed God firsthand they had 100% guidance and had no excuse to sin whatsoever and God was clear HE chosethem to be a HOLY  nation. By the time Jesus came they were so unjust and hypocritical that it wouldn't be right to stone someon for adultery. Remember he didn't say “Stop” or “This is wrong” he simply offered the person without sin to cast the first stone and her accusers repented from stoning her. Jesus NEVER said anything was wrong with the law but he abrogated former verses to give some advantage to those not in power becase whenever law is corrupted it is always the poor and weak that suffers the most. It's just like the Taliban and other rogue Muslim groups they misapply the Quran for their own purpose and the poor straps the bomb to his chest so his family can eat. I hope this helps

Boditharta.

Dont you know that Jesus came down from heaven to bring the light to the world?

Dont you know that there is an old covenant made with the jews, and also a new covenant made with Jesus followers?
Dont you know that he made a new covenant with his people?

Nothing in scripture has been abrogated.
All remained the same,nothing has changed.
It is people's misunderstanding, and lack of knowledge
that see as, some scriptures has been changed.

God is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow.

wakeup.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 04 2013,14:11)

Sura 9 tells muslims to kill those who reject islam.

please post the verses

[Ed J]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 05 2013,08:34)

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 04 2013,14:11) Sura 9 tells muslims to kill those who reject islam. please post the verses

Quote (quran @ Sura 9:30)

And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!

Quote (quran @ Sura 2 190-191)

And fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you, and do not exceed the limits, surely Allah does not love those who exceed the limits. And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

May YHVH open your eyes to the truth THAT 'the god' of the quran is satan the devil. (Gal.1:8 & 2Cor.11:14)

Ed (witness)

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Wakeup @ Aug. 04 2013,16:03)

Quote

Boditharta. Dont you know that Jesus came down from heaven to bring the light to the world?

Yes, he was sent to Glorify God on earth what a beautiful light.

John 17:4
I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do

Quote

Dont you know that there is an old covenant made with the jews, and also a new covenant made with Jesus followers?

So the Old Was Abrogated the Jews were to accept Jesus as Messiah

Quote

Dont you know that he made a new covenant with his people?

Yes, those people were Jews and later that was abrogated to include the gentiles

Quote

Nothing in scripture has been abrogated. All remained the same,nothing has changed.

So you would stone an adulterer today? Would you burn a witch today? do you eat shellfish,pork or other “unclean” animals. Do you keep the sabbath? and if you do keep the sabbath do you keep it as it i written to keep it i.e. no cooking, working…etc from Friday Night to Saturday Night

Quote

It is people's misunderstanding, and lack of knowledge that see as, some scriptures has been changed.

Genesis 1:29
And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

This was abrogated to

Genesis 9:3

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.

This was abrogated to

Leviticus 11:1-28

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

11 And the Lord spake unto Moses and to Aaron, saying unto them, 2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, These are the beasts which ye shall eat among all the beasts that are on the earth. 3 Whatsoever parteth the hoof, and is clovenfooted, and cheweth the cud, among the beasts, that shall ye eat. 4 Nevertheless these shall ye not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the hoof: as the camel, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you. 5 And the coney, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you. 6 And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you. 7 And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you. 8 Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they are unclean to you.

9 These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat. 10 And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you: 11 they shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination. 12 Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.

13 And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray, 14 and the vulture, and the kite after his kind; 15 every raven after his kind; 16 and the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind, 17 and the little owl, and the cormorant, and the great owl, 18 and the swan, and the pelican, and the gier eagle, 19 and the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat. 20 All fowls that creep, going upon all four, shall be an abomination unto you. 21 Yet these may ye eat of every flying creeping thing that goeth upon all four, which have legs above their feet, to leap withal upon the earth; 22 even these of them ye may eat; the locust after his kind, and the bald locust after his kind, and the beetle after his kind, and the grasshopper after his kind. 23 But all other flying creeping things, which have four feet, shall be an abomination unto you.

24 And for these ye shall be unclean: whosoever toucheth the carcase of them shall be unclean until the even. 25 And whosoever beareth ought of the carcase of them shall wash his clothes, and be unclean until the even. 26 The carcases of every beast which divideth the hoof, and is not clovenfooted, nor cheweth the cud, are unclean unto you: every one that toucheth them shall be unclean. 27 And whatsoever goeth upon his paws, among all manner of beasts that go on all four, those are unclean unto you: whoso toucheth their carcase shall be unclean until the even. 28 And he that beareth the carcase of them shall wash his clothes, and be unclean until the even: they are unclean unto you.

Oh yea and that was abrogated to

1 Corinthians 10:25

New International Version (NIV)

25 Eat anything sold in the meat market without raising questions of conscience,

and here i the reason fo abrogation according to the scriptures:

Hebrews 7:12 ESV

For when there is a change in the priesthood, there is necessarily a change in the law as well.

Quote

God is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow.

God being the same does not mean he does not change the course of men if thatwere true no one could be converted after they were bound to hell so God can change from wrath to Mercy just as he did with the people of Jonah God changed his mind:

Jonah 3:10
And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

Or if you prefer

Jonah 3:10 (ERV)

10 God saw what the people did. He saw that they stopped doing evil. So God changed his mind and did not do what he planned. He did not punish the people.

I hope this helps

[Ed J]

Hi BD,

Still in denial, huh?

Ed

[Author]

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