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No we will see him with our own eyes! And what your not understanding is when HE became flesh, He made Himself be like man to teach, to be tested, to die for our sins so at that time the Father position was greater. Do you think any ordinary man could of come and done and gone threw the things Jesus did? He even knew what he was going to go threw when He came to earth, He himself said He had to fulfill the scriptures. And yes, Jesus himself said why do you say show us the father, you are seeing him. So you cant tell me Im wrong there. And like I told you scripture does say with our eyes shall we see God! Thats because He is spirit who became flesh. We all are a spirit(not the Holy Spirit) Doesnt you spirit live in your body? Your still the same person tho arent you? Well so does Gods!
Quote (georg @ Nov. 13 2009,04:17) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 13 2009,21:25) 
THE TRINITY-SATAN'S FALSE DOCTRINE
What are you talking about, my Husband and I do not believe in the trinity doctrine. Next time better make sure before you accuse a Brethren.
Irene
Hmmn, do you see anywhere where I said you or your husband? Or do you see anywhere where I accused anyone who does NOT believe in the trinity?Next time you need to read what I write correctly before you falsly accuse me of accusing you or your husband.
Your anger is misplaced.
Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 13 2009,21:23) Quote (georg @ Nov. 13 2009,01:04) Quote (katjo @ Nov. 13 2009,14:59) NO George, all things were made bY HIM AND FOR HIM! PLease explain these scriptures to me? John14:7 If ye had known me, ye should of known my father also;and from hencefourth you know him and have seen Him!(8) Phillip says; show us the father and Jesus replys;(9) Have I been so long time with you and yet has thou not known me? He that sees me, sees the Father; than how do you say, show us the Father? John 17;5 And now, O Father,glorify thou me WITH THINE OWN SELF with the glory which I had with thee before THE WORLD WAS(not created) Acts 2;36 Therefore let all the house of Isreal know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus,whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.(Jesus is Lord) Than (39) For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are far off, even as many as the Lord OUR GOD SHALL CALL! acts 4;12 Neither is there salvation in any other; for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. Acts10;36 tells us Jesus is Lord of all Romans 13:8 for whether we live, welie unto the Lord; and weather we die we die unto the Lord; whether we live therefore or die, we are the Lords!. 1Timothy 3;16 Literally tells us GOD was manifest in the flesh! God is spirit who became flesh! Are we not a spirit that lives in a body? You cant say God sends us His spirit but that dont make us Gods, Thats the Holy Spirit He sends! Do you think He would of been believed on as much if he was not seen in the flesh. There is scripture that even says with our eyes we shall see GOD! It would have to be in the flesh right? Rev. 16;7 He is called Lord God Almighty (Lord not LORD)but GOD. He is KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS! Rev 19;1 he is the Lord our God (21;7) He tells us I will be his God and he shall be my son. I dont understand how you truly take these scriptures any different. Please answer! katjo
katjoYou come up with a lot of new scriptures, but ignore the once I have quoted you; I'm not surprised, they would be hard to explain considering what you believe.
Yes, Jesus did the creating, but the power behind him was the Father.Jhn 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
Do I understand you correctly, you say by your scriptures that, seeing Jesus is seeing the father? Jesus has something different to say.
Jhn 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
The glory Jesus had before, was a spirit body; after he had finished the work here on earth and ascended to heaven, God gave him a divine and immortal body.
Jhn 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
Had Jesus been God and immortal, he could not have died for us; that is what immortality means, death is impossible; you can not be immortal and then decide you want to die for some one.
You quoted a scripture that goes against your own believe, and you didn't even know it.Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
You see what it says? “that God has made that same Jesus”. Peter is talking about the Jesus they crucified, God made him.
Yes, Jesus will be king of kings, and lord of lords.Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
No human will ever see God, and neither will any human see Jesus ever again.
Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.
Have you ever looked at the sun in full strength?
Paul saw Jesus for just a moment, and it blinded him.Act 9:17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, [even] Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
Georg
Trinity is nothing but dogma.
First you said thisQuote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 13 2009,21:25) THE TRINITY-SATAN'S FALSE DOCTRINE
The next post you say this. If you did not say it to Georg to whom did you say it?Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 13 2009,21:29) FRAUDULENT BIBLICAL PASSAGES IN 1ST JOHN 5:7-8 Further proof that the doctrine of the trinity is false lies in the book of 1st John.
Trinitarians have used the words of 1st John 5:7-8 as a key argument for the trinity.
“For there are three that bear witness in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one.”
There is an enormous problem however in using these verses to bolster the trinity doctrine.
The passage is not authentic!
These words only appear in five later manuscripts and are not found in any of the earlier New Testament texts.
These verses are such obvious forgeries that even staunch Trinitarian scholars have been forced to admit as much.
Among them are the publishers of the New King James translation and various study bibles.
Trinitarians promote these false teachings!
And then you made this post, to whom? If not to Georg? The very next post, my friend, it looks like you meant it to be for Georg………And now you don't want to live up to it. What do you call that?Quote (katjo @ Nov. 14 2009,01:11) No we will see him with our own eyes! And what your not understanding is when HE became flesh, He made Himself be like man to teach, to be tested, to die for our sins so at that time the Father position was greater. Do you think any ordinary man could of come and done and gone threw the things Jesus did? He even knew what he was going to go threw when He came to earth, He himself said He had to fulfill the scriptures. And yes, Jesus himself said why do you say show us the father, you are seeing him. So you cant tell me Im wrong there. And like I told you scripture does say with our eyes shall we see God! Thats because He is spirit who became flesh. We all are a spirit(not the Holy Spirit) Doesnt you spirit live in your body? Your still the same person tho arent you? Well so does Gods!
kato to whom are you addressing this post?
IreneQuote (katjo @ Nov. 14 2009,01:11) No we will see him with our own eyes! And what your not understanding is when HE became flesh, He made Himself be like man to teach, to be tested, to die for our sins so at that time the Father position was greater. Do you think any ordinary man could of come and done and gone threw the things Jesus did? He even knew what he was going to go threw when He came to earth, He himself said He had to fulfill the scriptures. And yes, Jesus himself said why do you say show us the father, you are seeing him. So you cant tell me Im wrong there. And like I told you scripture does say with our eyes shall we see God! Thats because He is spirit who became flesh. We all are a spirit(not the Holy Spirit) Doesnt you spirit live in your body? Your still the same person tho arent you? Well so does Gods!
Hi KAT,
The son of God Jesus did and said wonderful things by the powers and authority God gave him.
Acts 10.38Quote (rancherforChrist @ Nov. 12 2009,23:46) Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 12 2009,20:41) Quote (rancherforChrist @ Nov. 12 2009,21:45) Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 12 2009,17:49) Quote (rancherforChrist @ Nov. 12 2009,20:11) Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 12 2009,15:15) Quote (rancherforChrist @ Nov. 12 2009,11:24) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 11 2009,23:45) Quote (rancherforChrist @ Nov. 11 2009,17:52) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 11 2009,17:35) Hi RFC,
Exactly.
Why have men made an idol of the Son of God and forgotten the God of Israel?1Jn5.21
Hi Nick,And why would men speak of the Son of God and the God Of Israel as though the two are not one God?
Love ya,
Chris
Son of God is God?
Hi constitutionalist,If either you or I believe that this is about whose right and whose wrong, or if either of us believe that we have discovered the pure absolute truth and understand it fully, then what is the purpose of continued study?
There is no truth that stops being truth, just because you don't believe it.
The God the Father, God the Son (Jesus) and God the Holy Spirit are one God. If this is truth, then it's not truth because I believe. It's not my truth. If it's truth, then it is a part of God Himself. After all, the bible says that Jesus is The Way, The truth and The Life. This truth doesn't stop being truth just because you or anyone doesn't believe it. It's not truth because I say it or believe it. It's truth because it is alive and a part of God's word, and the word is God. I have watched as many people try to limit the word of God to words on a page in a book called the bible. God's word is not limited. His word is a living part of God. His word is as a powerful sword in His hands. Because He lives in those of us who believe, His word is also a sword in our hands.When people make this about someone being right and someone else being wrong, they often times stop growing. Should our discussions be about proving who is right and who is wrong, or should our discussions be about provoking more growth and maturing in Christ Jesus. He is the word of God that came in the flesh. Now, through His Holy Spirit He has once again came in the flesh, our flesh. God's word is alive in us. We could call His name Jesus, or Ya shu a, or Yahweh, or Holy Spirit, or even immanuel and we would all be correct. If Immanuel means God with us, then doesn't it also mean God's word with us? How can God beget anything that is not God. If a man begets a child, whether male or female, is not that child also man? If a horse begets a baby, is not that baby a horse? Can a fig tree produce some fruit that is not a fig? If each living organism or being produces fruit in it's own likeness, how could God the Father produce a fruit (His Son Jesus) that is not God? Jesus was not and is not a created being as we are. He is a begotten Son. Is that truth because I believe it? No. It is truth because it came from God.
Love ya,
Chris
Hi Rancher,
I totally agree with your following statement here:Quote How can God beget anything that is not God. If a man begets a child, whether male or female, is not that child also man? If a horse begets a baby, is not that baby a horse? Can a fig tree produce some fruit that is not a fig? If each living organism or being produces fruit in it's own likeness, how could God the Father produce a fruit (His Son Jesus) that is not God? Jesus was not and is not a created being as we are. He is a begotten Son. Is that truth because I believe it? No. It is truth because it came from God. So, from what you have said, I assume you think that the Son of God had a beginning, right? And when do you believe that beginning to be?
Thanks,
Kathi
Hi Kathi,Sorrow it took me so long to respond, but we were out all day ministering to many in need. It was an awesome day.
Kathi, the question that you asked seems like a very general question about the Son of God:
“So, from what you have said, I assume you think that the Son of God had a beginning, right? And when do you believe that beginning to be?”
Could you be a little more specific. Are you wanting to know if I believe that God's Son had a beginning as a man in the flesh or a beginning as the Son of God?
Love ya,
Chris
Rancher,
I was wondering if you believe that the Son of God (before He came in the flesh) had a beginning and if so when.Peace and joy,
Kathi
Hi Kathi,Thank you for clarifying. That is what I thought you were asking but I wanted to make sure.
No, I can say that I have never believe that the Son of God had a beginning. I do believe that He is The Beginning and The End, The Alpha, The Omega, The First and The Last. In His own words He called Himself all those things in Revelations chapter 1, and I do believe Him.
I hope that answered your question sufficiently.
Kathi, if I may, I would like to ask you the same question:
“I was wondering if you believe that the Son of God (before He came in the flesh) had a beginning and if so when?”
Thanks Kathi.
Love ya,
Chris
Rancher,
Thanks for your answer. I do believe that the Son of God had a beginning otherwise He would not be truly a true Son nor would He be truly begotten. When did He begin…well, I believe that God gave me some insight about that and it has to do with day one of creation when God said “Let there be light.” If He was begotten, then I believe He had a beginning and not as a
creation. If He was the ONLY Begotten of God then that would make Him a first and last of any begotten of God, the Alpha and Omega in regards to the begotten of God, the beginning of those begotten of God and the end of those begotten of God. So you see I do believe that He is the Beginning and the End, the Alpha and the Omega, as well as the First and the Last.I hope that answers your question.
Kathi
Thank you Kathi,I so appreciate your response and your honest. I'm getting ready to send you a brief PM. I hope you will take a look at it and respond as the Lord leads you.
Love you,
Chris
Hi Rancher,
If you sent me a PM, I didn't get it??Irene, that post was fpr Georg.
Hey Kathi,
I just sent you another PM. Did you get it. If not, try sending one to me and I will respond.
Thanks,
ChrisQuote (katjo @ Nov. 14 2009,01:11) No we will see him with our own eyes! And what your not understanding is when HE became flesh, He made Himself be like man to teach, to be tested, to die for our sins so at that time the Father position was greater. Do you think any ordinary man could of come and done and gone threw the things Jesus did? He even knew what he was going to go threw when He came to earth, He himself said He had to fulfill the scriptures. And yes, Jesus himself said why do you say show us the father, you are seeing him. So you cant tell me Im wrong there. And like I told you scripture does say with our eyes shall we see God! Thats because He is spirit who became flesh. We all are a spirit(not the Holy Spirit) Doesnt you spirit live in your body? Your still the same person tho arent you? Well so does Gods!
katjoYou have to be more specific with what scriptures you don't agree. Remember, I did not write them, I only quote them.
Those that will see the Father and the Son, are those who come up in the first resurrection, because they will be spirit beings too.
What you don't understand is this, the son never was God, he is not now God, and he never will be God, God has no equal.Isa 40:25 ¶ To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal? saith the Holy One.
Deu 4:35 Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him.
Isa 45:18 ¶ For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.
Isa 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
Mar 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
1Cr 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
1Cr 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
1Cr 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Now, show me how you make two or three out of these scriptures.
No, no ordinary man could have died for us, but ordinary men are also all sinners and need a savior themselves. That is why only the son of God, the first begotten, the first born of all creation, could have done it. And, because he came to die for man, he too had to become a man, and Mary was chosen to give birth to this man.
Jesus was the representative of God, the vicar if you will, he only spoke what the Father told him to say, that is why he said, if you seen me, you have seen the Father. He was one in mind and purpose with the Father, nothing more.You know, if you just fly over these scriptures as you apparently have done with the other scriptures I gave you, why even be here.
Georg
Quote (katjo @ Nov. 13 2009,07:19) REv 21:7 Even tells us He that over cometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God and he shall be my son!
keto If you mean this Scripture, It says that we shall be His Son's. My believe about that is we are His adopted Son's and not begotten Sons like Jesus is.
Now if you agree with that, then we are united in the word of God.
IreneIrene that scripture is pertaining to Jesus saying I will be his GOD.
Georg, Im not saying there is two or three, you said that. I know God is a title, for who? The LORD right? THe Lord God! Jesus is lORD is He not? there is scripture in the Old Testament also calling Him Lord God- not LORD but Lord GOD. If God is(spirit) that became FLESH (which you say is not so) than how does the old testament even say God has a mouth,eyes? Scriptures that describe God in the old Testament say the same of Jesus in the New. Do you know if you study the old with the new you would see who jesus really is. I know you dont want to hear that. IM working on a post I want you to read and see what you think. Give me a couple days. God Bless you both!
Ignoring scripture again Nick? That scripture is pertainng to Jesus that said I will be his God!! READ IT!
Quote (georg @ Nov. 13 2009,07:55) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 13 2009,21:23) Quote (georg @ Nov. 13 2009,01:04) Quote (katjo @ Nov. 13 2009,14:59) NO George, all things were made bY HIM AND FOR HIM! PLease explain these scriptures to me? John14:7 If ye had known me, ye should of known my father also;and from hencefourth you know him and have seen Him!(8) Phillip says; show us the father and Jesus replys;(9) Have I been so long time with you and yet has thou not known me? He that sees me, sees the Father; than how do you say, show us the Father? John 17;5 And now, O Father,glorify thou me WITH THINE OWN SELF with the glory which I had with thee before THE WORLD WAS(not created) Acts 2;36 Therefore let all the house of Isreal know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus,whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.(Jesus is Lord) Than (39) For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are far off, even as many as the Lord OUR GOD SHALL CALL! acts 4;12 Neither is there salvation in any other; for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. Acts10;36 tells us Jesus is Lord of all Romans 13:8 for whether we live, welie unto the Lord; and weather we die we die unto the Lord; whether we live therefore or die, we are the Lords!. 1Timothy 3;16 Literally tells us GOD was manifest in the flesh! God is spirit who became flesh! Are we not a spirit that lives in a body? You cant say God sends us His spirit but that dont make us Gods, Thats the Holy Spirit He sends! Do you think He would of been believed on as much if he was not seen in the flesh. There is scripture that even says with our eyes we shall see GOD! It would have to be in the flesh right? Rev. 16;7 He is called Lord God Almighty (Lord not LORD)but GOD. He is KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS! Rev 19;1 he is the Lord our God (21;7) He tells us I will be his God and he shall be my son. I dont understand how you truly take these scriptures any different. Please answer! katjo
katjoYou come up with a lot of new scriptures, but ignore the once I have quoted you; I'm not surprised, they would be hard to explain considering what you believe.
Yes, Jesus did the creating, but the power behind him was the Father.Jhn 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
Do I understand you correctly, you say by your scriptures that, seeing Jesus is seeing the father? Jesus has something different to say.
Jhn 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
The glory Jesus had before, was a spirit body; after he had finished the work here on earth and ascended to heaven, God gave him a divine and immortal body.
Jhn 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
Had Jesus been God and immortal, he could not have died for us; that is what immortality means, death is impossible; you can not be immortal and then decide you want to die for some one.
You quoted a scripture that goes against your own believe, and you didn't even know it.Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
You see what it says? “that God has made that same Jesus”. Peter is talking about the Jesus they crucified, God made him.
Yes, Jesus will be king of kings, and lord of lords.Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
No human will ever see God, and neither will any human see Jesus ever again.
Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.
Have you ever looked at the sun in full strength?
Paul saw Jesus for just a moment, and it blinded him.Act 9:17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, [even] Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
Georg
Trinity is nothing but dogma.
First you said this
It is statement of fact; trinity is dogma. Only those who are trinitarian would be offended by such a statement. Any who are anti trinitarian would agree with that statement.You took it out of context and assumed it applied to you or your husband, which is idiotic, because of my first statement, if you are anti trinitarian you would not find offensive.
Simple enough! You got angry and demanded an apology for something that has absolutly nothing to do with you or your husband.
It is sad.
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