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Quote The incomprehensible Yahweh is known through the Messiah, by faith, rather than by philosophical speculation. He manifests Yahweh to us, being the expression of his very being; and through him alone Yahweh can be known. The Scriptures reveal him to those who have faith; and thus we come to know the Holy Spirit as the divine impulse working in us. Quote The eternally begotten Son was a spoken word by which Yahweh made himself known. The Hebrew shows that the whole nature of Yahweh abode in the Messiah as Elohim, man being blended with Yahweh. The Word was a disposition of Yahweh, who begot the Son, a visible being. The Holy Spirit also is a real being as the Messiah was. The Word was an actual being, creating all things, manifesting God in bodily form. rancherforChrist,
Why do you embrace and worship three gods? Is it the way you were taught? Or something that came along later?
Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 12 2009,18:54) rancherforChrist, Why do you embrace and worship three gods? Is it the way you were taught? Or something that came along later?
Constitutional,I didn't say I worshiped three Gods. You did.
Hi rfc,
Is the man Jesus the God of Israel or did he come to tells us about Him?[jn8.54]
Was He God Himself or was God in him?[2cor5]Quote (rancherforChrist @ Nov. 13 2009,14:05) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 12 2009,18:54) rancherforChrist, Why do you embrace and worship three gods? Is it the way you were taught? Or something that came along later?
Constitutional,I didn't say I worshiped three Gods. You did.
But what you did say you believe in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. That makes People think that you believe in the trinity doctrine, do you?
IreneQuote (georg @ Nov. 12 2009,19:21) Quote (rancherforChrist @ Nov. 13 2009,14:05) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 12 2009,18:54) rancherforChrist, Why do you embrace and worship three gods? Is it the way you were taught? Or something that came along later?
Constitutional,I didn't say I worshiped three Gods. You did.
But what you did say you believe in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. That makes People think that you believe in the trinity doctrine, do you?
Irene
Hi Irene,You said,
“But what you did say you believe in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.”
You are correct Irene. I do believe in the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
Then you said,
“That makes People think that you believe in the trinity doctrine, do you?”
Irene, people don't think that because of something I say. They think that because they are hung up on some doctrine called Trinity. Many of those same people believe in the power of their own intellect more than the Power of Christ.
As they see it, the trinity doctrine is something for some to use as a tool to try and pick away at the foundation of Jesus Christ, and I have no interest in their pursuits. People will believe what they will believe about me. I'm not interested in what they believe about me. I'm interested in what they believe about Jesus.
Love ya,
ChrisNO George, all things were made bY HIM AND FOR HIM! PLease explain these scriptures to me? John14:7 If ye had known me, ye should of known my father also;and from hencefourth you know him and have seen Him!(8) Phillip says; show us the father and Jesus replys;(9) Have I been so long time with you and yet has thou not known me? He that sees me, sees the Father; than how do you say, show us the Father? John 17;5 And now, O Father,glorify thou me WITH THINE OWN SELF with the glory which I had with thee before THE WORLD WAS(not created) Acts 2;36 Therefore let all the house of Isreal know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus,whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.(Jesus is Lord) Than (39) For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are far off, even as many as the Lord OUR GOD SHALL CALL! acts 4;12 Neither is there salvation in any other; for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. Acts10;36 tells us Jesus is Lord of all Romans 13:8 for whether we live, welie unto the Lord; and weather we die we die unto the Lord; whether we live therefore or die, we are the Lords!. 1Timothy 3;16 Literally tells us GOD was manifest in the flesh! God is spirit who became flesh! Are we not a spirit that lives in a body? You cant say God sends us His spirit but that dont make us Gods, Thats the Holy Spirit He sends! Do you think He would of been believed on as much if he was not seen in the flesh. There is scripture that even says with our eyes we shall see GOD! It would have to be in the flesh right? Rev. 16;7 He is called Lord God Almighty (Lord not LORD)but GOD. He is KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS! Rev 19;1 he is the Lord our God (21;7) He tells us I will be his God and he shall be my son. I dont understand how you truly take these scriptures any different. Please answer!
katjo
Hi RFC,
We are meant to COME TO JESUS.
Not to stand there and ogle but to be reborn into him.
Standing outside the kingdom in admiration of the one God sent is not eternally useful.Hi KAT,
You need to listen to Jesus who teaches about reconciliation with his God.
You seem to be caught in the headlights and not walking.Quote (rancherforChrist @ Nov. 13 2009,14:41) Quote (georg @ Nov. 12 2009,19:21) Quote (rancherforChrist @ Nov. 13 2009,14:05) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 12 2009,18:54) rancherforChrist, Why do you embrace and worship three gods? Is it the way you were taught? Or something that came along later?
Constitutional,I didn't say I worshiped three Gods. You did.
But what you did say you believe in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. That makes People think that you believe in the trinity doctrine, do you?
Irene
Hi Irene,You said,
“But what you did say you believe in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.”
You are correct Irene. I do believe in the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
Then you said,
“That makes People think that you believe in the trinity doctrine, do you?”
Irene, people don't think that because of something I say. They think that because they are hung up on some doctrine called Trinity. Many of those same people believe in the power of their own intellect more than the Power of Christ.
As they see it, the trinity doctrine is something for some to use as a tool to try and pick away at the foundation of Jesus Christ, and I have no interest in their pursuits. People will believe what they will believe about me. I'm not interested in what they believe about me. I'm interested in what they believe about Jesus.
Love ya,
Chris
That my friend is no answer. The trinity doctrine is a doctrine of men and not of God, and I for one want to know if a person believes that or not? So are you afraid to answer that question or not? Jesus Himself said you will come and say 'have I not prophesied in your name and He will say' I never knew you.”
Math, 15:4 “But in vain do they worship Me, teaching for the doctrine the commandment of men.”
IreneQuote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 12 2009,20:02) Hi RFC,
We are meant to COME TO JESUS.
Not to stand there and ogle but to be reborn into him.
Standing outside the kingdom in admiration of the one God sent is not eternally useful.
Hi Nick,You said,
“We are meant to COME TO JESUS.”I say,
I was chosen to come to Jesus.You say,
“Not to stand there and ogle but to be reborn into him.”I say,
Being born again through Jesus Christ happens when He dwells in me and lives His life fully in and through me.You say,
“Standing outside the kingdom in admiration of the one God sent is not eternally useful.”I can't say that standing outside the kingdom in admiration of the one God is not eternally useful. I can't say that because God said that He would work ALL things for my good because I love Him and am called according to His purpose.
What I can say is the same thing that Jesus said to the Pharisees. Some people look for the kingdom of God to come, when really the kingdom of God is within me. but unless I receive it as a little child, I cannot enter.
I related all those things I said to me, because I can only speak for myself and my walk with the Lord. I cannot speak on behalf of others. It's up to them to speak on their own behalf.
Love ya,
ChrisIrene, So how do you know those scriptures like that isnt for the ones who dont see him as God? Does it say if you believe in a trinity? NO ! Im like Chris that is just a word people use to pick away at people who beleive the three are one! And i quotted this for Georg to answer; all things were made BY HIM AND FOR HIM! NOT THREW HIM. PLease explain these scriptures to me? John14:7 If ye had known me, ye should of known my father also;and from hencefourth you know him and have seen Him!(8) Phillip says; show us the father and Jesus replys;(9) Have I been so long time with you and yet has thou not known me? He that sees me, sees the Father; than how do you say, show us the Father? John 17;5 And now, O Father,glorify thou me WITH THINE OWN SELF with the glory which I had with thee before THE WORLD WAS(not created) Acts 2;36 Therefore let all the house of Isreal know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus,whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.(Jesus is Lord) Than (39) For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are far off, even as many as the Lord OUR GOD SHALL CALL! acts 4;12 Neither is there salvation in any other; for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. Acts10;36 tells us Jesus is Lord of all Romans 13:8 for whether we live, welie unto the Lord; and weather we die we die unto the Lord; whether we live therefore or die, we are the Lords!. 1Timothy 3;16 Literally tells us GOD was manifest in the flesh! God is spirit who became flesh! Are we not a spirit that lives in a body? You cant say God sends us His spirit but that dont make us Gods, Thats the Holy Spirit He sends! Do you think He would of been believed on as much if he was not seen in the flesh. There is scripture that even says with our eyes we shall see GOD! It would have to be in the flesh right? Rev. 16;7 He is called Lord God Almighty (Lord not LORD)but GOD. He is KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS! Rev 19;1 he is the Lord our God (21;7) He tells us I will be his God and he shall be my son. I dont understand how you truly take these scriptures any different. Please answer!
Quote (georg @ Nov. 12 2009,20:16) Quote (rancherforChrist @ Nov. 13 2009,14:41) Quote (georg @ Nov. 12 2009,19:21) Quote (rancherforChrist @ Nov. 13 2009,14:05) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 12 2009,18:54) rancherforChrist, Why do you embrace and worship three gods? Is it the way you were taught? Or something that came along later?
Constitutional,I didn't say I worshiped three Gods. You did.
But what you did say you believe in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. That makes People think that you believe in the trinity doctrine, do you?
Irene
Hi Irene,You said,
“But what you did say you believe in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.”
You are correct Irene. I do believe in the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
Then you said,
“That makes People think that you believe in the trinity doctrine, do you?”
Irene, people don't think that because of something I say. They think that because they are hung up on some doctrine called Trinity. Many of those same people believe in the power of their own intellect more than the Power of Christ.
As they see it, the trinity doctrine is something for some to use as a tool to try and pick away at the foundation of Jesus Christ, and I have no interest in their pursuits. People will believe what they will believe about me. I'm not interested in what they believe about me. I'm interested in what they believe about Jesus.
Love ya,
Chris
That my friend is no answer. The trinity doctrine is a doctrine of men and not of God, and I for one want to know if a person believes that or not? So are you afraid to answer that question or not? Jesus Himself said you will come and say 'have I not prophesied in your name and He will say' I never knew you.”
Math, 15:4 “But in vain do they worship Me, teaching for the doctrine the commandment of men.”
Irene
Irene,I love you and I care about your life. I care about your eternity. I care about your very soul. But I am not one bit interested in what you want, and I pray that God will not give you what you want, but instead give you what He wants for you, in the name of Jesus, amen.
Irene you said,
“So are you afraid to answer that question or not?”I say,
I hate manipulation and I won't react to it. I do not teach the trinity doctrine, nor did I bring it up here. Like I said before, people will believe what they will believe about me. I'm not interested in what they believe about me.If you want to know where I stand on the trinity doctrine, why don't you ask God about me. That's what I did about you. I asked God. After all, He is the source of all knowledge.
Love ya,
ChrisQuote (rancherforChrist @ Nov. 12 2009,21:45) Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 12 2009,17:49) Quote (rancherforChrist @ Nov. 12 2009,20:11) Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 12 2009,15:15) Quote (rancherforChrist @ Nov. 12 2009,11:24) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 11 2009,23:45) Quote (rancherforChrist @ Nov. 11 2009,17:52) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 11 2009,17:35) Hi RFC,
Exactly.
Why have men made an idol of the Son of God and forgotten the God of Israel?1Jn5.21
Hi Nick,And why would men speak of the Son of God and the God Of Israel as though the two are not one God?
Love ya,
Chris
Son of God is God?
Hi constitutionalist,If either you or I believe that this is about whose right and whose wrong, or if either of us believe that we have discovered the pure absolute truth and understand it fully, then what is the purpose of continued study?
There is no truth that stops being truth, just because you don't believe it.
The God the Father, God the Son (Jesus) and God the Holy Spirit are one God. If this is truth, then it's not truth because I believe. It's not my truth. If it's truth, then it is a part of God Himself. After all, the bible says that Jesus is The Way, The truth and The Life. This truth doesn't stop being truth just because you or anyone doesn't believe it. It's not truth because I say it or believe it. It's truth because it is alive and a part of God's word, and the word is God. I have watched as many people try to limit the word of God to words on a page in a book called the bible. God's word is not limited. His word is a living part of God. His word is as a powerful sword in His hands. Because He lives in those of us who believe, His word is also a sword in our hands.When people make this about someone being right and someone else being wrong, they often times stop growing. Should our discussions be about proving who is right and who is wrong, or should our discussions be about provoking more growth and maturing in Christ Jesus. He is the word of God that came in the flesh. Now, through His Holy Spirit He has once again came in the flesh, our flesh. God's word is alive in us. We could call His name Jesus, or Ya shu a, or Yahweh, or Holy Spirit, or even immanuel and we would all be correct. If Immanuel means God with us, then doesn't it also mean God's word with us? How can God beget anything that is not God. If a man begets a child, whether male or female, is not that child also man? If a horse begets a baby, is not that baby a horse? Can a fig tree produce some fruit that is not a fig? If each living organism or being produces fruit in it's own likeness, how could God the Father produce a fruit (His Son Jesus) that is not God? Jesus was not and is not a created being as we are. He is a begotten Son. Is that truth because I believe it? No. It is truth because it came from God.
Love ya,
Chris
Hi Rancher,
I totally agree with your following statement here:Quote How can God beget anything that is not God. If a man begets a child, whether male or female, is not that child also man? If a horse begets a baby, is not that baby a horse? Can a fig tree produce some fruit that is not a fig? If each living organism or being produces fruit in it's own likeness, how could God the Father produce a fruit (His Son Jesus) that is not God? Jesus was not and is not a created being as we are. He is a begotten Son. Is that truth because I believe it? No. It is truth because it came from God. So, from what you have said, I assume you think that the Son of God had a beginning, right? And when do you believe that beginning to be?
Thanks,
Kathi
Hi Kathi,Sorrow it took me so long to respond, but we were out all day ministering to many in need. It was an awesome day.
Kathi, the question that you asked seems like a very general question about the Son of God:
“So, from what you have said, I assume you think that the Son of God had a beginning, right? And when do you believe that beginning to be?”
Could you be a little more specific. Are you wanting to know if I believe that God's Son had a beginning as a man in the flesh or a beginning as the Son of God?
Love ya,
Chris
Rancher,
I was wondering if you believe that the Son of God (before He came in the flesh) had a beginning and if so when.Peace and joy,
Kathi
Hi Kathi,Thank you for clarifying. That is what I thought you were asking but I wanted to make sure.
No, I can say that I have never believe that the Son of God had a beginning. I do believe that He is The Beginning and The End, The Alpha, The Omega, The First and The Last. In His own words He called Himself all those things in Revelations chapter 1, and I do believe Him.
I hope that answered your question sufficiently.
Kathi, if I may, I would like to ask you the same question:
“I was wondering if you believe that the Son of God (before He came in the flesh) had a beginning and if so when?”
Thanks Kathi.
Love ya,
Chris
Rancher,
Thanks for your answer. I do believe that the Son of God had a beginning otherwise He would not be truly a true Son nor would He be truly begotten. When did He begin…well, I believe that God gave me some insight about that and it has to do with day one of creation when God said “Let there be light.” If He was begotten, then I believe He had a beginning and not as a creation. If He was the ONLY Begotten of God then that would make Him a first and last of any begotten of God, the Alpha and Omega in regards to the begotten of God, the beginning of those begotten of God and the end of those begotten of God. So you see I do believe that He is the Beginning and the End, the Alpha and the Omega, as well as the First and the Last.I hope that answers your question.
KathiQuote (Lightenup @ Nov. 12 2009,20:41) Quote (rancherforChrist @ Nov. 12 2009,21:45) Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 12 2009,17:49) Quote (rancherforChrist @ Nov. 12 2009,20:11) Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 12 2009,15:15) Quote (rancherforChrist @ Nov. 12 2009,11:24) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 11 2009,23:45) Quote (rancherforChrist @ Nov. 11 2009,17:52) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 11 2009,17:35) Hi RFC,
Exactly.
Why have men made an idol of the Son of God and forgotten the God of Israel?1Jn5.21
Hi Nick,And why would men speak of the Son of God and the God Of Israel as though the two are not one God?
Love ya,
Chris
Son of God is God?
Hi constitutionalist,If either you or I believe that this is about whose right and whose wrong, or if either of us believe that we have discovered the pure absolute truth and understand it fully, then what is the purpose of continued study?
There is no truth that stops being truth, just because you don't believe it.
The God the Father, God the Son (Jesus) and God the Holy Spirit are one God. If this is truth, then it's not truth because I believe. It's not my truth. If it's truth, then it is a part of God Himself. After all, the bible says that Jesus is The Way, The truth and The Life. This truth doesn't stop being truth just because you or anyone doesn't believe it. It's not truth because I say it or believe it. It's truth because it is alive and a part of God's word, and the word is God. I have watched as many people try to limit the word of God to words on a page in a book called the bible. God's word is not limited. His word is a living part of God. His word is as a powerful sword in His hands. Because He lives in those of us who believe, His word is also a sword in our hands.When people make this about someone being right and someone else being wrong, they often times stop growing. Should our discussions be about proving who is right and who is wrong, or should our discussions be about provoking more growth and maturing in Christ Jesus. He is the word of God that came in the flesh. Now, through His Holy Spirit He has once again came in the flesh, our flesh. God's word is alive in us. We could call His name Jesus, or Ya shu a, or Yahweh, or Holy Spirit, or even immanuel and we would all be correct. If Immanuel means God with us, then doesn't it also mean God's word with us? How can God beget anything that is not God. If a man begets a child, whether male or female, is not that child also man? If a horse begets a baby, is not that baby a horse? Can a fig tree produce some fruit that is not a fig? If each living organism or being produces fruit in it's own likeness, how could God the Father produce a fruit (His Son Jesus) that is not God? Jesus was not and is not a created being as we are. He is a begotten Son. Is that truth because I believe it? No. It is truth because it came from God.
Love ya,
Chris
Hi Rancher,
I totally agree with your following statement here:Quote How can God beget anything that is not God. If a man begets a child, whether male or female, is not that child also man? If a horse begets a baby, is not that baby a horse? Can a fig tree produce some fruit that is not a fig? If each living organism or being produces fruit in it's own likeness, how could God the Father produce a fruit (His Son Jesus) that is not God? Jesus was not and is not a created being as we are. He is a begotten Son. Is that truth because I believe it? No. It is truth because it came from God. So, from what you have said, I assume you think that the Son of God had a beginning, right? And when do you believe that beginning to be?
Thanks,
Kathi
Hi Kathi,Sorrow it took me so long to respond, but we were out all day ministering to many in need. It was an awesome day.
Kathi, the question that you asked seems like a very general question about the Son of God:
“So, from what you have said, I assume you think that the Son of God had a beginning, right? And when do you believe that beginning to be?”
Could you be a little more specific. Are you wanting to know if I believe that God's Son had a beginning as a man in the flesh or a beginning as the Son of God?
Love ya,
Chris
Rancher,
I was wondering if you believe that the Son of God (before He came in the flesh) had a beginning and if so when.Peace and joy,
Kathi
Hi Kathi,Thank you for clarifying. That is what I thought you were asking but I wanted to make sure.
No, I can say that I have never believe that the Son of God had a beginning. I do believe that He is The Beginning and The End, The Alpha, The Omega, The First and The Last. In His own words He called Himself all those things in Revelations chapter 1, and I do believe Him.
I hope that answered your question sufficiently.
Kathi, if I may, I would like to ask you the same question:
“I was wondering if you believe that the Son of God (before He came in the flesh) had a beginning and if so when?”
Thanks Kathi.
Love ya,
Chris
Rancher,
Thanks for your answer. I do believe that the Son of God had a beginning otherwise He would not be truly a true Son nor would He be truly begotten. When did He begin…well, I believe that God gave me some insight about that and it has to do with day one of creation when God said “Let there be light.” If He was begotten, then I believe He had a beginning and not as a creation. If He was the ONLY Begotten of God then that would make Him a first and last of any begotten of God, the Alpha and Omega in regards to the begotten of God, the beginning of those begotten of God and the end of those be
gotten of God. So you see I do believe that He is the Beginning and the End, the Alpha and the Omega, as well as the First and the Last.I hope that answers your question.
Kathi
Thank you Kathi,I so appreciate your response and your honest. I'm getting ready to send you a brief PM. I hope you will take a look at it and respond as the Lord leads you.
Love you,
ChrisHi RFC,
How can you follow Jesus and become like him by the same Spirit he was given if you remain lost in admiration for him?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 12 2009,20:45) Hi RFC,
So you say.
Does that leave any room for his God?
Hi Nick,Leave room for God? Who do you think this is about?
Ya know Nick, if you ever decide to actually enter into a conversation with me, I might actually enjoy it. LOL. Until then, you're welcome to just keep bouncing questions around, and I'll just keep bouncing them right back at ya.
Love ya,
Chris
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