Jesus christ is he god?

Participant

Hi KAT,
Any luck with finding a trinity taught in scripture?
If not why do you hold this belief against scripture?

November 13, 2009 at 1:02 am#156342

Anonymous

Inactive

I put the scriptures right in front of you and you cant defend them. Your basically calling them a lie in my eyes. why dont you try explainng?

November 13, 2009 at 1:04 am#156344

Participant

Hi KAT,
Who is the God of Jesus?[Jn20.17]
Jesus said true worshipers worship the Father[Jn4]
Are you one of those or have you mapped out your own path?

November 13, 2009 at 1:06 am#156346

georg

Participant

Quote (katjo @ Nov. 13 2009,05:47)

Did he create himself George? He is the creator. All things were created by him and for him, contradictions again huh?

katjo

When the bible says he is the first born, or he is the beginning of God's creation, doesn't that tell you that he is God's first and only creation, because everything else was created through his son, Jesus?
Where is the contradiction?

Georg

November 13, 2009 at 1:11 am#156350

Participant

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 12 2009,15:15)

Quote (rancherforChrist @ Nov. 12 2009,11:24)

Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 11 2009,23:45)

Quote (rancherforChrist @ Nov. 11 2009,17:52)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 11 2009,17:35)

Hi RFC,
Exactly.
Why have men made an idol of the Son of God and forgotten the God of Israel?

1Jn5.21

Hi Nick,

And why would men speak of the Son of God and the God Of Israel as though the two are not one God?

Love ya,
Chris

Son of God is God?

Hi constitutionalist,

If either you or I believe that this is about whose right and whose wrong, or if either of us believe that we have discovered the pure absolute truth and understand it fully, then what is the purpose of continued study?

There is no truth that stops being truth, just because you don't believe it.
The God the Father, God the Son (Jesus) and God the Holy Spirit are one God. If this is truth, then it's not truth because I believe. It's not my truth. If it's truth, then it is a part of God Himself. After all, the bible says that Jesus is The Way, The truth and The Life. This truth doesn't stop being truth just because you or anyone doesn't believe it. It's not truth because I say it or believe it. It's truth because it is alive and a part of God's word, and the word is God. I have watched as many people try to limit the word of God to words on a page in a book called the bible. God's word is not limited. His word is a living part of God. His word is as a powerful sword in His hands. Because He lives in those of us who believe, His word is also a sword in our hands.

When people make this about someone being right and someone else being wrong, they often times stop growing. Should our discussions be about proving who is right and who is wrong, or should our discussions be about provoking more growth and maturing in Christ Jesus. He is the word of God that came in the flesh. Now, through His Holy Spirit He has once again came in the flesh, our flesh. God's word is alive in us. We could call His name Jesus, or Ya shu a, or Yahweh, or Holy Spirit, or even immanuel and we would all be correct. If Immanuel means God with us, then doesn't it also mean God's word with us? How can God beget anything that is not God. If a man begets a child, whether male or female, is not that child also man? If a horse begets a baby, is not that baby a horse? Can a fig tree produce some fruit that is not a fig? If each living organism or being produces fruit in it's own likeness, how could God the Father produce a fruit (His Son Jesus) that is not God? Jesus was not and is not a created being as we are. He is a begotten Son. Is that truth because I believe it? No. It is truth because it came from God.

Love ya,
Chris

Hi Rancher,
I totally agree with your following statement here:

Quote

How can God beget anything that is not God. If a man begets a child, whether male or female, is not that child also man? If a horse begets a baby, is not that baby a horse? Can a fig tree produce some fruit that is not a fig? If each living organism or being produces fruit in it's own likeness, how could God the Father produce a fruit (His Son Jesus) that is not God? Jesus was not and is not a created being as we are. He is a begotten Son. Is that truth because I believe it? No. It is truth because it came from God.

So, from what you have said, I assume you think that the Son of God had a beginning, right? And when do you believe that beginning to be?

Thanks,
Kathi

Hi Kathi,

Sorrow it took me so long to respond, but we were out all day ministering to many in need. It was an awesome day.

Kathi, the question that you asked seems like a very general question about the Son of God:

“So, from what you have said, I assume you think that the Son of God had a beginning, right? And when do you believe that beginning to be?”

Could you be a little more specific. Are you wanting to know if I believe that God's Son had a beginning as a man in the flesh or a beginning as the Son of God?

Love ya,
Chris

November 13, 2009 at 1:21 am#156352

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 12 2009,17:04)

Hi KAT,
Who is the God of Jesus?[Jn20.17]
Jesus said true worshipers worship the Father[Jn4]
Are you one of those or have you mapped out your own path?

Hi Nick,

Reading your question that you asked of Kat got me to wondering about what you truly believe. Do you believe that you can somehow get to the Father to worship Him in Spirit and in truth apart from Jesus? You speak of the Son of God (Jesus/Ya shu a) as though He is not worthy of your worship. Do you not know that if you deny Christ, that He will deny you before the Father. Do you really not understand that the Son is the Way to the Father?

November 13, 2009 at 1:38 am#156355

Participant

Hi RFC,
So you would suggest we worship two gods?
God is one and is not a trinity.
Jesus is His Son.

November 13, 2009 at 1:43 am#156358

Participant

Hi RFC,
If you have become one with Jesus by rebirth of water and the Spirit then should you not obey what he says in Jn 4?

He has a God and we need to come to Him wearing the robe of the righteousness of His Son.

Is it OK to hold catholic dogmas above his teachings?

Will he know those who do?

November 13, 2009 at 1:45 am#156360

Lightenup

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 12 2009,18:34)

Hi LU,
We are born of God but are not God.[1Jn5, 1 peter1]

Hi Nick,
Very true…we are definitely not God and we are not sons like He is a son either.

November 13, 2009 at 1:49 am#156361

Lightenup

Participant

Quote (rancherforChrist @ Nov. 12 2009,20:11)

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 12 2009,15:15)

Quote (rancherforChrist @ Nov. 12 2009,11:24)

Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 11 2009,23:45)

Quote (rancherforChrist @ Nov. 11 2009,17:52)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 11 2009,17:35)

Hi RFC,
Exactly.
Why have men made an idol of the Son of God and forgotten the God of Israel?

1Jn5.21

Hi Nick,

And why would men speak of the Son of God and the God Of Israel as though the two are not one God?

Love ya,
Chris

Son of God is God?

Hi constitutionalist,

Love ya,
Chris

Hi Rancher,
I totally agree with your following statement here:

Quote

So, from what you have said, I assume you think that the Son of God had a beginning, right? And when do you believe that beginning to be?

Thanks,
Kathi

Hi Kathi,

Sorrow it took me so long to respond, but we were out all day ministering to many in need. It was an awesome day.

Kathi, the question that you asked seems like a very general question about the Son of God:

“So, from what you have said, I assume you think that the Son of God had a beginning, right? And when do you believe that beginning to be?”

Could you be a little more specific. Are you wanting to know if I believe that God's Son had a beginning as a man in the flesh or a beginning as the Son of God?

Love ya,
Chris

Rancher,
I was wondering if you believe that the Son of God (before He came in the flesh) had a beginning and if so when.

Peace and joy,
Kathi

November 13, 2009 at 1:56 am#156362

georg

Participant

Quote (katjo @ Nov. 13 2009,07:19)

REv 21:7 Even tells us He that over cometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God and he shall be my son!

katjo

Hbr 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

If Jesus was God, could he have been “made” better than the angels?
If Jesus was God, would he have rebuked the man who called him “good”?

Luk 18:18 ¶ And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

Luk 18:19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.

If Jesus was God, would God have to raise him to the highest position of honor?

Hbr 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

Jesus did not have a throne to sit on, or he would not have said this.

Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

So who is the one that owns everything, the Father or his son? Who therefore has the right to give away an inheritance, is it not the Father? And, are we not all God's children? And who will be your God, the Father or the Son?

Georg

November 13, 2009 at 2:18 am#156372

Participant

:cool:

Quote

Yeshua, surnamed HaMoshiach, was not a Hypostasis but a human being is taught both by the early Fathers and in Scriptures, taken in their literal sense, and is indicated by the miracles he wrought. He, and not the Word, is also the miraculously born Son of 'Elohim in fleshly form, as the Scriptures teach and not a hypostasis, but an actual Son.

:cool:

November 13, 2009 at 2:21 am#156373

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 12 2009,17:43)

Hi RFC,
If you have become one with Jesus by rebirth of water and the Spirit then should you not obey what he says in Jn 4?

He has a God and we need to come to Him wearing the robe of the righteousness of His Son.

Is it OK to hold catholic dogmas above his teachings?

Will he know those who do?

Hi Nick,

I have to admit, when I asked those questions of you, I didn't hold my breathe in anticipation of any real answer from you. LOL. I'm glad I didn't hold my breathe.

Love ya,
Chris

November 13, 2009 at 2:22 am#156374

Participant

:cool:

Quote

Careful interpretation of the usual proof text shows that they teach not a unison of three beings in one, but a harmony between them.

:cool:

November 13, 2009 at 2:27 am#156375

Participant

:cool:

Quote

The doctrine of the Trinity can be neither established by logic nor proved from Scriptures, and is in fact inconceivable. There are many reasons against it. The Scriptures and the Fathers teach one Yahweh the Father, and Yeshua HaMoshiac his Son: but scholastic philosophy has introduced terms which are not understood, and do not accord with Scripture.

:cool:

November 13, 2009 at 2:31 am#156377

Participant

:cool:

Quote

Yeshua taught that he himself was the Son of Yahweh. Numerous heresies have sprung from this philosophy, and fruitless questions have arisen out of it.

Worst of all, the doctrine of the Trinity incurs the ridicule of the Mohammedans and the Jews. It arose out of Greek philosophy rather than from the belief that Yeshua HaMoshiach is the Son of Yahweh; and he will be with the Church only if it keeps his teaching.

:cool:

November 13, 2009 at 2:38 am#156379

Participant

:cool:

Quote

The pre-existent Word, first uttered by Yahweh in creation, was afterwards incarnate in Yeshua as the Son of 'Elohim. The Messiah spirit manifested the power of 'Elohim's Word in creation and in the world, and he derives our holy service; yet the Father did not suffer in the Messiah's body. High praise is ascribed to the Messiah as the wisdom of Yahweh. The Word was not the Son, but a disposition of 'Elohim, who is above all distinctions of time. Belief that Yeshua is the HaMoshiac, the Son of Yahweh, is the essence of Christian faith, and the foundation of the Church.

:cool:

November 13, 2009 at 2:43 am#156383

Participant

:cool:

Quote

Yahweh has manifest himself in three different dispositions. Of these, the Holy Spirit is his activity in the spirit of man, and is the minister of the Word. Yahweh is seen in the Person of the Messiah, represented in Scripture the imagery of angels; but the real image of Yahweh is the Messiah. The term Nature is appropriate only to Yahweh; the Word no longer exist; Person means a representation of another being; the Messiah incarnate, is the image of the Substance, but not of the Nature, of Yahweh.

:cool:

November 13, 2009 at 2:45 am#156384

Participant

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 12 2009,17:49)

Quote (rancherforChrist @ Nov. 12 2009,20:11)

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 12 2009,15:15)

Quote (rancherforChrist @ Nov. 12 2009,11:24)

Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 11 2009,23:45)

Quote (rancherforChrist @ Nov. 11 2009,17:52)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 11 2009,17:35)

Hi RFC,
Exactly.
Why have men made an idol of the Son of God and forgotten the God of Israel?

1Jn5.21

Hi Nick,

And why would men speak of the Son of God and the God Of Israel as though the two are not one God?

Love ya,
Chris

Son of God is God?

Hi constitutionalist,

Love ya,
Chris

Hi Rancher,
I totally agree with your following statement here:

Quote

So, from what you have said, I assume you think that the Son of God had a beginning, right? And when do you believe that beginning to be?

Thanks,
Kathi

Hi Kathi,

Sorrow it took me so long to respond, but we were out all day ministering to many in need. It was an awesome day.

Kathi, the question that you asked seems like a very general question about the Son of God:

“So, from what you have said, I assume you think that the Son of God had a beginning, right? And when do you believe that beginning to be?”

Could you be a little more specific. Are you wanting to know if I believe that God's Son had a beginning as a man in the flesh or a beginning as the Son of God?

Love ya,
Chris

Rancher,
I was wondering if you believe that the Son of God (before He came in the flesh) had a beginning and if so when.

Peace and joy,
Kathi

Hi Kathi,

Thank you for clarifying. That is what I thought you were asking but I wanted to make sure.

No, I can say that I have never believe that the Son of God had a beginning. I do believe that He is The Beginning and The End, The Alpha, The Omega, The First and The Last. In His own words He called Himself all those things in Revelations chapter 1, and I do believe Him.

I hope that answered your question sufficiently.

Kathi, if I may, I would like to ask you the same question:

“I was wondering if you believe that the Son of God (before He came in the flesh) had a beginning and if so when?”

Thanks Kathi.
Love ya,
Chris

November 13, 2009 at 2:45 am#156385