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Quote Hi W,
You still miss the obvious in your search for the obscure.
If God was a trinity and He called it a godhead then this teaching would be found in the mouth of His beloved son who came to reveal Him to men. There is a deathly silence on the matter. But you have found three greek words which are all translated as godhead and you expect this cobbled up foundation to describe the nature of our Mighty Glorious Father and God. Get real. You clearly do not know our God and Father if your think His ways are so bizarre and trivial.NH
I show you scripture and you give me words, your own words. You are simply doing what you always do, saying I am wrong whithout showing me why.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 24 2006,00:00) Quote If you will reread my post you will see that I did allow for WJ's quote to be a mistake. I consider quoting from the KJV a mistake due all the wrong interpretation contained therein. WJ and I have butted heads before and it is my concerted opinion that we have an understanding that we are both confident and passionate about our beliefs. This being the way we are, we sometimes overstate our case without the intention of causing harm.
If I have offended WJ then I do apologise.
M42
Opology accepted!
And I thank you Isa 1:18 for pointing out what happens here a lot. Because I use the KJV does not mean that I havent studied what I quote before I paste it. I compare the Greek and Hebrew with all of the major tranlations, as well as check commentaries and history and whatever resouce I can.
But my interpretation of the scriptures is based on Two things,
1- The Holy Spirit and prayer.
2- Looking at the text in its context and digging into the Hebrew or Greek.
All of the other things are secondary and if they contradict the above, I dont use it.
I use the KJV Because in most cases I find it reliable and I like the language, not because I think it is the best or only interpretation.
Im not even a Catholic and abhor some of their practices.
All I ask is that when you disagree, give me a reason why, not based on human logic or tradition or rumors, or the websters, etc,etc,etc.
Show me scriptural proof that what I am saying is wrong. I am sure I am not always right.
But you must know that when I make a statement on this forum, I am not just copying and pasting scriptures without prayerfully studied them, and thoroughly check them out.
I probably have more time than most here to study, other than NH who lives here.
All I want is scriptural evidence thats based on the whole of scriptures. We have the whole Bible for instruction.
I would like to submit a possible correction on your two rules of interpretation, you even mention it at the close of your thread.
Between 1 & 2 there should be an evaluation of the scripture in question as to how it fits in the whole of scripture. Context within a single scripture can be misinterpreted but the whole of scripture will keep us from error.
My opinion.
Quote Quote (Cult Buster @ Dec. 24 2006,03:34)
1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.Deu 32:3 Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God.
Deu 32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.
1Sa 2:2 There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God.
1Sa 2:2 There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God.
Psa 78:35 And they remembered that God was their rock, and the high God their redeemer.1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
Zec 7:11 But they refused to hearken, and pulled away the shoulder, and stopped their ears, that they should not hear.
Hi CB,
Ah ha
Ah ha
Ah haDo several inferences make a fact?
This is really sad.
This is a representative of this sight.
An Admin.
Laughing at another for pointing out scripture that has substance and evidence that refutes his belief.
There is no attempt to show where his “Inferrence is wrong” Just pure critisism.
Very Christ like?
?? 
Quote would like to submit a possible correction on your two rules of interpretaion, you even mention it at the close of your thread. Between 1 & 2 there should be an evaluation of the scripture in question as to how it fits in the whole of scripture. Context within a single scripture can be mis-interpreted but the whole of scripture will keep us from error.
My opinion.
ST
Well I did say that at the bottom of my post, but you are right…
But my interpretation of the scriptures is based on three things,
1- The Holy Spirit and prayer.
2- Scriptural evidence thats based on the whole of scriptures
3- Looking at the text in its context and digging into the Hebrew or Greek.
Hi W,
No ” ah ha” is not laughing but an inference gained by a derived insight rather than revelation.
I prefer revelation and we all should.Tell me Keith.
Is the God in the OT shown to be a trinity?
If not why?Quote (seekingtruth @ Dec. 24 2006,05:47) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 24 2006,00:00) Quote If you will reread my post you will see that I did allow for WJ's quote to be a mistake. I consider quoting from the KJV a mistake due all the wrong interpretation contained therein. WJ and I have butted heads before and it is my concerted opinion that we have an understanding that we are both confident and passionate about our beliefs. This being the way we are, we sometimes overstate our case without the intention of causing harm.
If I have offended WJ then I do apologise.
M42
Opology accepted!
And I thank you Isa 1:18 for pointing out what happens here a lot. Because I use the KJV does not mean that I havent studied what I quote before I paste it. I compare the Greek and Hebrew with all of the major tranlations, as well as check commentaries and history and whatever resouce I can.
But my interpretation of the scriptures is based on Two things,
1- The Holy Spirit and prayer.
2- Looking at the text in its context and digging into the Hebrew or Greek.
All of the other things are secondary and if they contradict the above, I dont use it.
I use the KJV Because in most cases I find it reliable and I like the language, not because I think it is the best or only interpretation.
Im not even a Catholic and abhor some of their practices.
All I ask is that when you disagree, give me a reason why, not based on human logic or tradition or rumors, or the websters, etc,etc,etc.
Show me scriptural proof that what I am saying is wrong. I am sure I am not always right.
But you must know that when I make a statement on this forum, I am not just copying and pasting scriptures without prayerfully studied them, and thoroughly check them out.
I probably have more time than most here to study, other than NH who lives here.
All I want is scriptural evidence thats based on the whole of scriptures. We have the whole Bible for instruction.
I would like to submit a possible correction on your two rules of interpretation, you even mention it at the close of your thread.
Between 1 & 2 there should be an evaluation of the scripture in question as to how it fits in the whole of scripture. Context within a single scripture can be misinterpreted but the whole of scripture will keep us from error.
My opinion.
Perhaps you did not see the entire of my post on hermaneutics posted on Dec 14. I only picked out these few rules because the were germain to WJ post.But you are right and thanks for the suggestion. that particular principle is included in the original post.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 24 2006,05:00) Quote If you will reread my post you will see that I did allow for WJ's quote to be a mistake. I consider quoting from the KJV a mistake due all the wrong interpretation contained therein. WJ and I have butted heads before and it is my concerted opinion that we have an understanding that we are both confident and passionate about our beliefs. This being the way we are, we sometimes overstate our case without the intention of causing harm.
If I have offended WJ then I do apologise.
M42
Opology accepted!
And I thank you Isa 1:18 for pointing out what happens here a lot. Because I use the KJV does not mean that I havent studied what I quote before I paste it. I compare the Greek and Hebrew with all of the major tranlations, as well as check commentaries and history and whatever resouce I can.
But my interpretation of the scriptures is based on Two things,
1- The Holy Spirit and prayer.
2- Looking at the text in its context and digging into the Hebrew or Greek.
All of the other things are secondary and if they contradict the above, I dont use it.
I use the KJV Because in most cases I find it reliable and I like the language, not because I think it is the best or only interpretation.
Im not even a Catholic and abhor some of their practices.
All I ask is that when you disagree, give me a reason why, not based on human logic or tradition or rumors, or the websters, etc,etc,etc.
Show me scriptural proof that what I am saying is wrong. I am sure I am not always right.
But you must know that when I make a statement on this forum, I am not just copying and pasting scriptures without prayerfully studied them, and thoroughly check them out.
I probably have more time than most here to study, other than NH who lives here.
All I want is scriptural evidence thats based on the whole of scriptures. We have the whole Bible for instruction.
I am curious WJ, you say this is a forum to disuade members of watchtower. How long has this forum been operating and just exactly how many have been brought out of that group?Do you believe a forum like this actually can be effective in convincing people out of their beliefs? If so could you please tell me how?
Quote (music4two @ Dec. 24 2006,15:10) Quote (seekingtruth @ Dec. 24 2006,05:47) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 24 2006,00:00) Quote If you will reread my post you will see that I did allow for WJ's quote to be a mistake. I consider quoting from the KJV a mistake due all the wrong interpretation contained therein. WJ and I have butted heads before and it is my concerted opinion that we have an understanding that we are both confident and passionate about our beliefs. This being the way we are, we sometimes overstate our case without the intention of causing harm.
If I have offended WJ then I do apologise.
M42
Opology accepted!
And I thank you Isa 1:18 for pointing out what happens here a lot. Because I use the KJV does not mean that I havent studied what I quote before I paste it. I compare the Greek and Hebrew with all of the major tranlations, as well as check commentaries and history and whatever resouce I can.
But my interpretation of the scriptures is based on Two things,
1- The Holy Spirit and prayer.
2- Looking at the text in its context and digging into the Hebrew or Greek.
All of the other things are secondary and if they contradict the above, I dont use it.
I use the KJV Because in most cases I find it reliable and I like the language, not because I think it is the best or only interpretation.
Im not even a Catholic and abhor some of their practices.
All I ask is that when you disagree, give me a reason why, not based on human logic or tradition or rumors, or the websters, etc,etc,etc.
Show me scriptural proof that what I am saying is wrong. I am sure I am not always right.
But you must know that when I make a statement on this forum, I am not just copying and pasting scriptures without prayerfully studied them, and thoroughly check them out.
I probably have more time than most here to study, other than NH who lives here.
All I want is scriptural evidence thats based on the whole of scriptures. We have the whole Bible for instruction.
I would like to submit a possible correction on your two rules of interpretation, you even mention it at the close of your thread.
Between 1 & 2 there should be an evaluation of the scripture in question as to how it fits in the whole of scripture. Context within a single scripture can be misinterpreted but the whole of scripture will keep us from error.
My opinion.
Perhaps you did not see the entire of my post on hermaneutics posted on Dec 14. I only picked out these few rules because the were germain to WJ post.But you are right and thanks for the suggestion. that particular principle is included in the original post.
Hi m42,
Of course the Galilean fisherman apostles were not trained in Hermeneutics where you might say the scribes and Pharisees were. That was an advantage to Peter because the Spirit was able to put words from scripture into his mouth and therein is the power of the gospel.Ignorance of the influence of man is an advantage and cut and paste scripture is better than falsely divided words. We are told not to prepare a defence before we face trial for the same reason.
Paul trained as a Pharisee at the feet of Gamaliel but that learing led his into great sin arranging the deaths of the members of the body of Christ. He regarded what he had gained previously as rubbish so he could gain Christ[Phil 3].
The blind man healed by Jesus in Jn 9 was no expert in the Law but he knew what was important when he told the Jews that Christ could do nothing unless God was with him. The power to heal was sufficient evidence for him that God was with Christ and he asked his accusers if they wanted to be followers of Christ too.
The heart is desperately wicked.
God chooses the weak to shame the strong.
Simple childlike faith in the scriptures in the way of Christ.Look what men have done even devising a new definition of God Himself-that should give us warning enough.
WJ,
I have a couple of questions for you. I trust you are wekk versed in scriptue enough that I need not list dozens of verses to explain what I mean.
1. Do you believe we are to become like Jesus?
2. How does that work? In otherwords are we just to act like Jesus or is our character and motives changed to be like Jesus.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 24 2006,04:19) Quote Hi WJ: The reason for my question is that in addition to the definitions that you give the word obeisance means obedience.
I find the following dictionary definition at dictionary.com:
“The act of obeying; dutiful or submissive behavior with respect to another person”.This sounds like “true worship” to me, and Jesus obeyed the Father even unto death on the cross.
Jesus is worthy of all the praise, glory and honour that we can give him, and we also obey the commandments that came to us from God through him. When we obey him we are obeying God since the commandments came from God through him.
Of the Pharisees Jesus said: “These people honor me with their lips but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men”. (Matt. 15:8-9)
94
I think what you are describing sounds like Love to me.
Jn 14:21
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.It may be that you could say that Jesus had such a Love for the Father and the Father for him, that maybe this could be a form of worship.
My point is that there is no scripture anywhere that we see Jesus “proskuneo” the Father.
This type of worship in the scriptures is reserved among the followers of Christ for worshipping God only.
Love and worship seem to be two different things.
I Cor 13
4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
Hi WJ:Jesus states to the Samaritan woman: “Yet the time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshippers must worship him in spirit and in truth”. (John 4:23-24)
1 John 4:16 states that “God is love”, and so, God is a spirit of love.
And I am saying that the highest form of worship is obedience to God out of love and respect for him. Without this, all other form of worship is meaningless.
From a personal experience, I will share the following: “I was praying to God and I made a statement, “God you are so awesome that I should lay prostrate when I pray to you”. He spoke to me and said, “It is not the position of your body that matters to me but the position of your heart”.
But of Jesus perhaps the following sciptures may qualify as the type of worship that you are indicating: In John:28 Jesus states: “Father, glorify your name!” In John 12:29 God responds, “Then a voice came from heaven. 'I have glorified it, and will glorify it again'.
Jesus states: “Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. Now this eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. I have brought you glory on earth by completing the work you gave me to do. And now. Father, glorify me in your presense with the glory I had with you before the world began”. (John 17:1-5)
God Bless
NH
Quote Hi CB,
Ah ha
Ah ha
Ah haDo several inferences make a fact?
Not inferences NH but Biblical facts. Come out of the Watchtower.
Jesus is God
Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily
Phi 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus
Phi 2:6 Who being in the form of God thought it not robbery to be equal with GodRom 9:5 Whose are the fathers and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came who is over all God blessed for ever Amen
Tit 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ
1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness God was manifest in the flesh
1Jo 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding that we may know him that is true and we are in him that is true even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,..Mic 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
Heb 7:16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
Mat 26:63 But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
Mat 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
Mat 26:65 Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy;(The high priest understood Jesus’ claim to be God and wrongly accused Him of blasphemy.)
Blasphemy can only be committed against God.Mat 9:2 And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee.
Mat 9:3 And, behold, certain of the scribes said within themselves, This man blasphemeth. (They knew that only God can forgive sins.)
Mat 9:4 And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts?2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God,…
Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;1Jo 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
Isa 40:3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.
Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Heb 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image,
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Mat 9:6 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.
Mar 2:5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.
Mar 2:6 But there were certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts,
Mar 2:7 Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?Col 3:13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.
Joh 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
Joh 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.Joh 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
Heb 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
Rev 22:8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.
Rev 22:9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.
Joh 9:38 And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him.
Mar 5:6 But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him,
Mat 28:17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him:
Mat 15:25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
Mat 14:33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.
Mat 8:2 And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him,.Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God (Theos).
Joh 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
Jer 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD (Yhovah)OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.Rev 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
Mar 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
Exo 20:1
0 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God:1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
Deu 32:3 Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God.
Deu 32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.
1Sa 2:2 There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God.
1Sa 2:2 There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God.
Psa 78:35 And they remembered that God was their rock, and the high God their redeemer.1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
Exo 20:1 And God spake all these words, saying,
Exo 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
1Co 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD (yhovah), I change not;
Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
Joh 8:57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
Joh 8:59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: (because Jesus claimed the name of God)Joh 10:9 I am the door:
Joh 10:11 I am the good shepherd:
Joh 11:25 … I am the resurrection,
Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life:
Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me?
Joh 15:1 I am the true vine,Joh 5:17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.
Joh 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.Mat 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Joh 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.Acts 7:59, “And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.”
Joh 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.
Quote (Cult Buster @ Dec. 25 2006,10:05) Jesus is God Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily
Phi 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus
Phi 2:6 Who being in the form of God thought it not robbery to be equal with GodRom 9:5 Whose are the fathers and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came who is over all God blessed for ever Amen
Tit 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ
1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness God was manifest in the flesh
1Jo 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding that we may know him that is true and we are in him that is true even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,..Mic 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
Heb 7:16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
Mat 26:63 But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
Mat 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
Mat 26:65 Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy;(The high priest understood Jesus’ claim to be God and wrongly accused Him of blasphemy.)
Blasphemy can only be committed against God.Mat 9:2 And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee.
Mat 9:3 And, behold, certain of the scribes said within themselves, This man blasphemeth. (They knew that only God can forgive sins.)
Mat 9:4 And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts?2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God,…
Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;1Jo 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
Isa 40:3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.
Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Heb 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image,
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Mat 9:6 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.
Mar 2:5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.
Mar 2:6 But there were certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts,
Mar 2:7 Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?Col 3:13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.
Joh 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
Joh 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.Joh 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
Heb 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
Rev 22:8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.
Rev 22:9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.
Joh 9:38 And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him.
Mar 5:6 But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him,
Mat 28:17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him:
Mat 15:25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
Mat 14:33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.
Mat 8:2 And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him,.Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God (Theos).
Joh 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
Jer 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD (Yhovah)OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.Rev 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
Mar 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God:1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that sp
iritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
Deu 32:3 Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God.
Deu 32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.
1Sa 2:2 There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God.
1Sa 2:2 There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God.
Psa 78:35 And they remembered that God was their rock, and the high God their redeemer.1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
Exo 20:1 And God spake all these words, saying,
Exo 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
1Co 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD (yhovah), I change not;
Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
Joh 8:57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
Joh 8:59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: (because Jesus claimed the name of God)Joh 10:9 I am the door:
Joh 10:11 I am the good shepherd:
Joh 11:25 … I am the resurrection,
Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life:
Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me?
Joh 15:1 I am the true vine,Joh 5:17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.
Joh 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.Mat 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Joh 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.Acts 7:59, “And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.”
Joh 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.
you know I find it curious the manner in which you debate. There are Monls in monestaries that have the entire Bible memorized. they can spew it out in reams.
Without an accurate understanding of what the screatures really mean it is just a grouping of words. It is a dead letter.On several occasions I have ask you to relate your scriptures and the meanings you have derived to real life and test to see if your doctrine really works. You have ignored these requests. Why should anyone listen to you when you cannot show how it functions?
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 19 2006,01:01) Quote Hi w,
You quote
“I Jn 5:20
And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.**This scripture is plainly speaking of the Son**
So Jesus came to give us understanding that we may KNOW God, the only true God, his father.
He did not come just to introduce himself to us but to show us God, IN him.
So we are IN Him who is true, God, if we are IN His Son Jesus Christ, who is IN the true God.
Eternal life is IN the Son, IN God.Otherwise you will have to say the Father is not the true God. Is that what you mean?
NH
Why not just believe the scripture?
I Jn 5:20
And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.I know this scripture does not fit into your Arian view, but it does fit into a trinitarian view!
One God, Father Son and Holy Ghost.
Hi WJ:1 John 5:20 is indeed speaking about Jesus. He is the express image of God's person (Hebrews 1:3). John 14:9-10 Jesus speaking to Philip states: “…Have I been so long with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? HE THAT HATH SEEN ME HATH SEEN THE FATHER; and how sayest thou then shew us the Father? Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me he doeth the works”.
And He (in that spirit) is eternal life. Hebrews 5:7-9 states of Jesus: “Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; though he were a Son, yet he learned obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Now we know that Jesus obeyed God without sin even unto death of the cross, but we, God's adopted sons, who striving to walk in that same spirit make mistakes, and so without the blood of our Lord Jesus which cleanses us from all sin when we repent, we would not have eternal life. John 6:53-54 states: “Then Jesus said unto them, verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye eat the flesh of the Son o man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at that last day”.
Romans 8:11-14 states: “But of the Spirit of Him who raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you (this is the Holy Spirit, God's Spirit), he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. For as many are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Through obedience to the Word of God (who is the spirit Jesus our Lord), God our Father by his Holy Spirit dwells within us. God is the source of all life. 2 John 9 states: “Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son”.
Now to you an Cult Buster: Jesus is indeed God in that He is the express image of his person. (Hebrews 1:3) God calls him God in Hebrews 1:8-9 in this context: “But unto the Son he saith (God speaking to Jesus) thy throne O God, is for ever and ever; a sceptre of righteousness is the scepter of thy kingdom. Thou has loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; THEREFORE GOD, EVEN THY GOD, HATH ANOINTED THEE WITH THE OIL OF GLADNESS ABOVE THY FELLOWS”.
Jesus is our Lord not our God. We are subjected to God through him (that is the Word of God). “But I would have your know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of woman is man; and the head of Christ is God”. (1 Co. 11:3)You say:
One God, Father, Son, Holy Spirit
How then do you fit the following scripture into this definition for God:
“But to us THERE IS BUT ONE GOD, THE FATHER, of whom are all things, and we by him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him”. (1 Co. 8:6)
“There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, ONE GOD AND FATHER OF ALL, WHO IS ABOVE ALL, AND THROUGH ALL, AND IN YOU ALL”. (Ephes. 4:4-6)
“And this is life eternal, that THEY MIGHT KNOW THEE THE ONLY TRUE GOD, and Jesus Christ, WHOM THOU HAST SENT”. (John 17:3)
God Bless, and every day is Christmas to me
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 24 2006,05:37) m42 I dont think this forum is meant to teach Sonship. This forum is meant to indoctrinate believers and lead them into a version of Arianism.
Maybe you dont see the severity of trying to change the very Nature of who God is, but I do.
You say…
Quote They are more interested in proving what they think Jesus is then they are showing us how to become like Him. Sorry my friend but if you dont know who he is then how can you know how to be like him?
He is more than the Son. There are many apellations describing our Lord.
And if you dont know who the Father is, How can you be perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect?
And if you dont Understand the Holy Spirit and his ministry here, how can you be led and taught by him?
Who cares about the Nicene creed and the debates then. Whats happening now, here. how many are watching and listening and desire to know the truth here?
Its vital to understand the Godhead, to the point that it could mean the difference in one truly being saved.
So I will continue to defend the truth, yes the truth that I have found, maybe not your truth, but if I dont share and defend what I believe with my whole heart, then I have not fulfilled the commandment of the Word of God to me…
Phil 1
6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ:
7 Even as it is meet for me to think this of you all, because I have you in my heart; inasmuch as both in my bonds, and in the defence and confirmation of the gospel, ye all are partakers of my grace.Phil 1
16 The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds:
17 But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel.
18 What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.
Let me first of all deal with one of your last points.
You state – “Its vital to understand the Godhead, to the point that it could mean the difference in one truly being saved.”I am pleased that you used the phrase “could mean the difference”, becuse that indicates you do not (absolutely) consider salvation to be based on a belief in the Trinity. I agree with you in that, and I see nothing clear in scripture requiring that.
Secondly you have repeatedly ask for me and others to supply scripture to prove our points. Consider this – That way of proving teaching is compleately based on Greek western thinking. How can you prove anything in scripture by deducing from a different culture then that which it was written in? Without thinking Hebrew, you cannot understand scripture. Hebrews think and write in terms of action, relationship and function. It’s just that simple!
For this reason I am not going to include scripture in this post but ask you to actually think about the conclussions of your scriptural proofs. The journey is not about what you can prove scripturally, but what your proof produces.Third, the plan of God is not subject to scripturural interpretation but rather scripturural interpretation is subject to the plan of God. The written word of God has no intrinsic holiness in it. The being of God and His plan is holy. In otherwords beyond all hermaneutical principles is the test of functionality toward sonship. No matter what any of us think we can prove (honest or dishonest) if it does not serve the purpose of enabling us to see or carry out the possibility of becoming sons of God like Jesus, then that teaching is false! No ifs ands or buts. Without passing that test what we teach is balogna! Untill someone shows me the functionality of their teaching, I cannot take it seriously nor except it as true teaching!
You say this website is dedicated to training people in Arianism. You and others have been debating scripture for years. What positive changes has it made? Perhaps you should consider a different approach although I doubt there is much possibility in this type of venue to really be effective. I agree this site is not about teaching sonship. I am not even sure if that can be done online. The real question is why is no one interested in trying to teach sonship? Sonship is the most important teaching of scripture. It encompases the entire plan of God. Without knowing, practicing, and teaching sonship we miss the entire point of creation and God’s plan for us. The greatest fear we can put in the heart of the enemy is that of us becoming mature sons of our father in heaven. Without sonship, debating scripture is a total waste of time and effort. We become teachers of the law without understanding it’s purpose. In fact we run the real risk of sidetracking people from seeking sonship and lend support to the enemy. We become Pharasees!!!
In fact I do understand how very important it is to not change the nature of God. I think I understand that importance from a different perspective then you. I will give you credit for a desire to uphold what you percieve to be the integrety of God. I do respect your motives in this area. The problem arrises in the definition of the integrety of God as we respectively see it. When one gives honor and/or credit to a teaching it would seem absolutely necesary that this teaching do something positive toward making a person become like christ. A teaching must funtion and work toward the ultimate goal of making us sons of our heavenly Father.
You state – “Sorry my friend but if you dont know who he is then how can you know how to be like him?”
—The problem is that you do not take this point far enough to the real functional (or lack there of) part of this teaching. —
Let me first make a minor point – Scripture is very clear on the fact that we are to have an intimate relationship with Christ. It even compares it to the Husband and Wife relationship This is not a simple intelectual understanding. but something much much more. This is not about an intelectual proof but about a functional realational teaching.
The second point is this – There are many scriptures that tell us to be Holy and perfect even as our Father in heaven is perfect and holy. Is that just an exageration or is that a real commandment? Is Jesus the true pattern son and example for makind in everyway? Are we really supposed to become like Christ or only in part like Him? If only in part, then please tell me in what ways we are to be like him and what ways we are not? I would also like to understand how you come to these conclussions.
The third and major point is this – I agree with you that we must know him to be like Him. You contention is that Jesus is God. How does believing that help you to be like Him? Do you believe (as some religions) that you will become a God?
If you believe it to be a matter of being like Jesus in character, I will agree, but I must return to the same point again. FUNCTION How or why did jesus have/develope perfect character and actions? Was it because He was a man or a God? To what ever degree you attribute Jesus' character and actions to being a God, to that same degree we can never become like Him. If He did it because He is a God, how do we do it? If He did it because He has a dual nature, how do we do it?
Even the example His reserection from the dead losses it’s aplication to us if He is anyhitng other then human. And I do not mean human with a dual nature or 100% God and 100% man, because we have a single human nature. So what if God can raise a dual natured creature, how does that help those of us with a single human nature?Would Yahweh give us an example to follow that is a God and then judge us on the basis of how much we can duplicate that nature in us?
You state – “And if you dont know who the Father is, How can you be perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect?”
I must get back to function again. How do you know who the Father is in respect to becoming perfect like Him? It is fine to say we should know Him and be like him, but without a realistic way to do it, it is just so much rhetoric!
You state – And if you dont Understand the Holy Spirit and his ministry here, how can you be led and taught by him?
Again, function, function, function. How does it work? I have been waiting for you to respond to my request for you to do a word study on the word “spirit”. Consider the possibility that it is a poor translation of the Greek word. Check out the literal translation of the Greek word, then replace the word spirit with that proper word. Do this in conjunction with reading the Greek that in most cases leaves out the word “the” in front of the term “Holy Spirit”. A totally different picture comes out.
You state – “Who cares about the Nicene creed and the debates then. Whats happening now, here. how many are watching and listening and desire to know the truth here”
And yet, the concepts that you are teaching have their roots in these creeds.
So you think your teaching is important for those watching this board? I have my doubts about this venue’s worth in teaching but more then that, I must ask again WHAT ABOUT FUNCTION!!!
Instead of giving those watching something for intelectual debate, how about giving them a understanding that actually teaches the possibility of fullfilling God’s plan for them. A teaching that shows Jesus as a compleat Human being just like us that actually did it! Instead of showing us a God whom we can never duplicate, show us a man that we CAN be like.You state – So I will continue to defend the truth, yes the truth that I have found, maybe not your truth, but if I dont share and defend what I believe with my whole heart, then I have not fulfilled the commandment of the Word of God to me…
Consider this – What is God’s greatest commandment for all men?
36″Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?”
37And He said to him, ” 'YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.'
38″This is the great and foremost commandment.
39″The second is like it, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.'
40″On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.”
Do you believe this is God’s greatest commandment for you? What is most important thing to those watching this board? How do we best love our neighbor? Is it by having and teaching a head knowledge that shows Jesus as something other then human and then demands we be like Him? Is it proving Jesus is a God in His attributes, character and actions and then expecting us to believe we can really be like Him?
Being somewhat of an intelectual, I must admit and even apologise for getting caught up in the debates of scriptural detail. I have several times snapped myself back into the reality of functionality and everytime I have posted concerning this aspect, I have been ignored. What is so scarry about discussing the depths of function of a teaching?
My friend – All I ask id that you think about it.
Hi m42
You say
“The written word of God has no intrinsic holiness in it. “How odd it would be if God calls oil, places, prophets, garments, children, kisses HOLY but not the Words from His holy mouth.
But of course He does.
Romans 1:2
(Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
Romans 7:12
Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
2 Timothy 3:15
And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus
2 Peter 2:21
For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2 Peter 1:21
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.The Scriptures are the Power of God , the visible manifestation of the work of Spirit of God through men, the bread of life to our souls.
We cannot attain to the mind of Christ by education. We must be reborn first from above, so that Christ may grow in us and his mind be manifest in us according to that Word. Not by might nor by power but by Thy Spirit we are transformed by the renwing of our hearts and minds.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 25 2006,21:22) Hi m42
You say
“The written word of God has no intrinsic holiness in it. “How odd it would be if God calls oil, places, prophets, garments, children, kisses HOLY but not the Words from His holy mouth.
But of course He does.
Romans 1:2
(Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
Romans 7:12
Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
2 Timothy 3:15
And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus
2 Peter 2:21
For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2 Peter 1:21
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.The Scriptures are the Power of God , the visible manifestation of the work of Spirit of God through men, the bread of life to our souls.
We cannot attain to the mind of Christ by education. We must be reborn first from above, so that Christ may grow in us and his mind be manifest in us according to that Word. Not by might nor by power but by Thy Spirit we are transformed by the renwing of our hearts and minds.
Since you pulled one line out of context ot of my post, I feel completely justified in not dealing with your post at all. Waste of time!Hi M42,
Well lets put it in context and then perhaps you can justify your statement?“Third, the plan of God is not subject to scripturural interpretation but rather scripturural interpretation is subject to the plan of God. The written word of God has no intrinsic holiness in it. The being of God and His plan is holy. In otherwords beyond all hermaneutical principles is the test of functionality toward sonship. No matter what any of us think we can prove (honest or dishonest) if it does not serve the purpose of enabling us to see or carry out the possibility of becoming sons of God like Jesus, then that teaching is false! No ifs ands or buts. Without passing that test what we teach is balogna! Untill someone shows me the functionality of their teaching, I cannot take it seriously nor except it as true teaching!”
Thanks .Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 25 2006,21:22) Hi m42
You say
“The written word of God has no intrinsic holiness in it. “How odd it would be if God calls oil, places, prophets, garments, children, kisses HOLY but not the Words from His holy mouth.
But of course He does.
Romans 1:2
(Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
Romans 7:12
Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
2 Timothy 3:15
And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus
2 Peter 2:21
For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2 Peter 1:21
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.The Scriptures are the Power of God , the visible manifestation of the work of Spirit of God through men, the bread of life to our souls.
We cannot attain to the mind of Christ by education. We must be reborn first from above, so that Christ may grow in us and his mind be manifest in us according to that Word. Not by might nor by power but by Thy Spirit we are transformed by the renwing of our hearts and minds.
1. this post was not directed to you.2. I have no responsibility to justify myself to you.
3 I said what I intended to say and therefor take it as it is.
4. I have no desire to engage in worthless debate with you over details you pick out while you miss the overall context of the post.
Hi M42,
That is one approach but most who come here are quite happy to receive feedback on their words. All posts can be replied to by all and I must say I am surprised that you demand accountability from others for their words but become sullenly unresponsive when your own words are scrutinised. Surely you can defend everything you write or accept correction as we all do?
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