Jesus Christ is God

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote

Hi W, You ignore scripture to your peril. It is the Jesus Christ, the only begotten SON of God who came in the flesh. 1Jn 4 ” 1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. Such is the voice of antichrist.

NH

Heres only a few of the scriptures that destroys the Arian view.

Jn 1:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made

Tim 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Pss 45
6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.

Isa 9
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
7Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

Matt 1:23
23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Jn 14:9
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

Jn 10:30
I and my Father are one.

Jn 20:
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

Heb 1:
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Jude
24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

Rev 1:8
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Rev 5
11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;
12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.
13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
14 And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.

Rev 21
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

So why dont you believe these words?  

[NickHassan]

Hi W,
You are still in my prayers.

[942767]

Hi M42:

I have enjoyed your posts of Dec. 14 and would like your permission to copy and use them in teaching others.

God Bless

[music4two]

Quote (942767 @ Dec. 22 2006,22:57)

Hi M42: I have enjoyed your posts of Dec. 14 and would like your permission to copy and use them in teaching others. God Bless

You are more then welcome to use these principles in your studies. They do not belong to me. Only the format is mine and I claim no rights to God's anointing.

I hope they ae a blessing to you.

God Bless >

[942767]

Hi WJ:

Please tell me what is your definition of the word “worship”.

[music4two]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 22 2006,22:25)

NH Heres only a few of the scriptures that destroys the Arian view. Jn 1: 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made Tim 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. Pss 45 6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre. Isa 9 6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. 7Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this. Matt 1:23 23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. Jn 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? Jn 10:30 I and my Father are one. Jn 20: 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. 29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. Heb 1: 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; 4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. 5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? 6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. 7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. 8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Jude 24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, 25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen. Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. Rev 5 11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands; 12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing. 13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever. 14 And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever. Rev 21 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. 5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. So why dont you believe these words?

worshippingJesus

In a previous post I outlined a system of hermaneutical principles or safeties in studying the word. In response you said it was excelent, yet here I see you breaking many of the most fundemental of these interpretive safeties.

John 7:17
” If anyone is willing to do His will, he will know of the teaching, whether it is of God or whether I speak from Myself.
When studying scripture are you willing to follow proper principles of study or do you have other motives.
The most important concept to understand in the previous verse is motive. Do you seek an interpretation to prove your doctrine? Are you willing to lay down doctrines, traditions, and preconceived ideas or do you already know what you have chosen to believe and only want ammo to prove it?

Consider these simple rules for study. Do you use these or ones like them to come to the conclusion that “Word” in John 1 is literally Jesus.Have you studied the word at all or do you just repeat what someone else has told you? Did they study it or did they just guess in order to support a doctrine they want to prove.

1. Scripture must interpret scripture. No one has a private interpretation but all proofs must come from the word itself. A good idea and safety is to use scriptural terms to understand the meaning of a verse.
2. It does not matter what we believe to be true or how we feel about a subject.  All that matters is what can be clearly and properly proven in the word.
3. Spend a majority of time in clear understandable scripture.  Never base a belief on ambiguous scriptures.
4.  There is only one truth. Never base a doctrine on an interpretation of scriptures that causes contradiction with other clear scriptures. If there is a seeming contradiction, this indicates a need for further research to ascertain the truth. A clear scripture always supersedes and ambigous one and does not cause a contradiction.

5. Compare scripture with scripture. Compare a questionable scripture (or the scripture in question) to other scriptures that use the same words or speak of the same concepts. Does your deffinition hold true in other verses?

6.The original text is written in several languages from several time periods and cultures. Hebrew writers think differently then those of us brought up in the modern world.  Their writings also are effected by this difference. We must therefor understand how Hebrews thought and wrote. In the cases of the epistles, you must understand the culture and circumstances of the people to which the letter is written.

7. In the case of seeming contradictions where one scripture says one thing and dozens say the opposite go with the preponderance of evidence. In other words side with the majority of clear scripture until the apposing scripture can be properly understood.

Let’s examine your conclussion in light of these simple honest principles —

Rule 1 – Where does the concept of Word being equal to Jesus come from? Is there a preconcieved idea of the Trinity of Jesus as a pre-existant being which begins your thinking in that direction. Do you read John and filter it thru your doctrine? Is this illusion a remanant of the fallout when dishonest men added to the scripture in I John 5:7&8. Where does th
is concept come from?

Rule 2 – In the same way as rule 1 all of scripture must be taken into consideration and must be clear in the scriptures before one uses it for teaching.

Rule 3. – Since the scriptures do not clearly state Jesus is the word and the definition of word does not clearly indicate the name Jesus, one must look for more clear understanding.

Rule 4 and 5. If you definition of word is correct then wherever word (logos) is used in scripture your definition should work.

Let's test out your theory that (Logos)”word” should be translated Jesus. In the following few verses I have replaced “Logos” with “Jesus”. Do they become clearer or more confusing?

Matthew 8:8
But the centurion said, “Lord, I am not worthy for You to come under my roof, but just say the Jesus, and my servant will be healed.
Matthew 8:16
When evening came, they brought to Him many who were demon-possessed; and He cast out the spirits with a Jesus, and healed all who were ill.
Matthew 11:2
Now when John, while imprisoned, heard of the works of Christ, he sent Jesus by his disciples
Matthew 12:32
” Whoever speaks a Jesus against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.
Matthew 12:36
“But I tell you that every careless Jesus that people speak, they shall give an accounting for it in the day of judgment.
Mark 2:2
And many were gathered together, so that there was no longer room, not even near the door; and He was speaking the Jesus to them.
Mark 4:19
but the worries of the world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the desires for other things enter in and choke the Jesus, and it becomes unfruitful.
John 8:31
So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, ” If you continue in My Jesus, then you are truly disciples of Mine;
John 8:43
“Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My Jesus.

Rule 6 – Not understanding how the Hebrews thought and wrote is a major error. The Hebrew culture many times personified inanimate ideas and things. In Psalms wisdom is personified and given female gender. It is much the same way we call a ship “she”. Also Hebrews always think in terms of function, not intelectual data.

Rule 7 – Logos is used over 200 times in the New Testament. In all but a very few places it makes no sense translated  as Jesus. Have you fallen on the preponderance of the evidence or on the minority where your definition fits?

Let’s consider a few more of your proof texts
Jn 10:30
I and my Father are one.

Here you break rule 1 and 5. If this is a proof text of Jesus being God and one with the Father, then the same should hold true for these verses.

John 17
 21that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.

 22″The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one;

Has the Trinity expanded now to include all the saints in some multi-million unity of God? These verse are written by the same author as the verse in John 10, so he must be meaning the same kind of oneness in both.

Jude
24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

You have misquoted this vese completely. I don’t even have a rule for that one because unless this was a complete mistake I cannot concieve of anyone being that dishonest with scripture. Verse 25 says “The only wise God our saviour THROUGH JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD be glory and majesty…..

With an accurate quote it makes a whole diferent picture.

Matt 1:23
23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

This is no mystery. Here you have broken rule 1,2 4, 5, and 6. Jesus had the fullness of God in him. So when people were near him they were in the presence of the deity that resided in him. You are Spirit filled. To what ever degree you are yielded to God’s Holy Breath to that same degree are people in your presence also in the presence of God. When the priest entered the Temple on the day of atonement they were in the presence of God as revealed in the shakina glory. When the Ark of the Covenant was returned to the people of Israel they rejoiced because the “presence” of God had returned to them.
Secondly you did not take into consideration the relational way in which Hebrews viewed God and the natural realm. They see a revealing of God as the very presence of God Himself. Jesus revealed God to them and therefore in Jesus’ presence God was with them.

Tim 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Here you have broken rule 1, 5, and 6. This is a poor translation of this verse. the word “manifest” would be better translated “revealed”. Either way it is important to understand what “flesh” means. To Hebrew thinking Flesh was not evil but simple meant of the Earthly natural realm. So God was revealed in the natural realm. No diferent then He has revealed Himself in the burning bush, the shikaina glory or His creation. Except in the man Jesus Christ was His perfect revealing. The perfect reveling of God’s character as seen in a human being.

I have enjoyed our discussions of scripture, but I am a bit dismayed at the lack or scholarship and seeming dishonesty with these so called proof texts. In fact I did not wish to even research the remainder for fear I will dig up more missuse of scripture.

[Is 1:18]

Quote (music4two @ Dec. 23 2006,04:16)

Jude 24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, 25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen. You have misquoted this vese completely. I don’t even have a rule for that one because unless this was a complete mistake I cannot concieve of anyone being that dishonest with scripture. Verse 25 says “The only wise God our saviour THROUGH JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD be glory and majesty…..

WJ has not misquoted this verse, he's quoted from the KJV. Maybe you should check some translations before you accuse someone of dishonesty….

In your own words music4two – “get a life!”

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote

Hi WJ: Please tell me what is your definition of the word “worship”.

Hi 94

I thought we had already been down that road.

proskuneo,
1) to kiss the hand to (towards) one, in token of reverence

2) among the Orientals, esp. the Persians, to fall upon the knees and touch the ground with the forehead as an expression of profound reverence

3) in the NT by kneeling or prostration to do homage (to one) or make obeisance, whether in order to express respect or to make supplication

But this practice was not seen among the Disciples or the Apostles to any man or being other than Jesus.

Show me an example and I will believe you.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote

In a previous post I outlined a system of hermaneutical principles or safeties in studying the word. In response you said it was excelent, yet here I see you breaking many of the most fundemental of these interpretive safeties.

M42

I cannot deny the scriptures in order to follow some rule. However I believe as you say that we should approach the scriptures with a certain understanding of the context and background.

Our main teacher is the Holy Spirit!

Now, if you can prove to me by any rules of interpretation that the scriptures I have shown can be interpreted another way, then I will believe you.

Otherwise I will believe them as they say and not deny them as many do!

[Is 1:18]

Quote (music4two @ Dec. 23 2006,04:16)

Rule 3. – Since the scriptures do not clearly state Jesus is the word and the definition of word does not clearly indicate the name Jesus, one must look for more clear understanding.

Incorrect.

John 1:1-14 KJV
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2The same was in the beginning with God.
3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
6There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Now pay attention music42:
The Logos:-

[NickHassan]

Hi Is 1.18,
God was not begotten.
The Son of God, the monogenes God, who was with God, was.
One original
One image

Ps 2
7I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee

1Jn 5
“1Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.”

[Cult Buster]

Jesus is God

Col 2:9  For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily

Phi 2:5  Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus
Phi 2:6  Who being in the form of God  thought it not robbery to be equal with God

Rom 9:5  Whose are the fathers  and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came  who is over all God blessed for ever Amen

Tit 2:13  Looking for that blessed hope  and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ

1Ti 3:16  And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness  God was manifest in the flesh

1Jo 5:20  And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding  that we may know him that is true  and we are in him that is true  even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God  and eternal life.

Isa 9:6  For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Rev 1:8  I am Alpha and Omega (Jesus speaking), the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Joh 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:14  And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,..

Mic 5:2  But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

Heb 7:16  Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

Mat 26:63  But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
Mat 26:64  Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
Mat 26:65  Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy;

(The high priest understood Jesus’ claim to be God and wrongly accused Him of blasphemy.)
Blasphemy can only be committed against God.

Mat 9:2  And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee.
Mat 9:3  And, behold, certain of the scribes said within themselves, This man blasphemeth. (They knew that only God can forgive sins.)
Mat 9:4  And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts?

2Co 4:4  In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Col 1:15  Who is the image of the invisible God,…

Heb 1:2  Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Heb 1:3  Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Heb 1:8  But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

1Jo 5:20  And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

Isa 40:3  The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God (Jesus).

Rev 22:13  I (Jesus) am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

Joh 1:3  All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Joh 1:10  He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

Col 1:16  For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Heb 1:2  Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Heb 1:10  And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

Gen 1:26  And God said, Let us make man in our image,

Col 1:17  And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Mat 9:6  But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.

Mar 2:5  When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.
Mar 2:6  But there were certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts,
Mar 2:7  Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?

Col 3:13  Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.

Joh 5:22  For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
Joh 5:23  That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Joh 14:1  Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

Heb 1:6  And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
Rev 22:8  And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.
Rev 22:9  Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.
Mat 28:9  And they came and held him (Jesus) by the feet, and worshipped him.

Joh 20:28  And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God (Theos).
Joh 20:29  Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

Jer 23:5  Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
Jer 23:6  In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD (Yhovah)OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Rev 2:23  And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

Mar 2:28  Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
Exo 20:10  But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God:

1Co 10:4  And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
Deu 32:3  Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God.
Deu 32:4  He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.
1Sa 2:2  There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God.
1Sa 2:2  There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God.
Psa 78:35  And
they remembered that God was their rock, and the high God their redeemer.

1Co 10:4  And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Exo 20:1  And God spake all these words, saying,
Exo 20:2  I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
1Co 10:2  And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1Co 10:4  And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

2Ti 4:1  I charge thee therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

Mal 3:6  For I am the LORD (yhovah), I change not;
Heb 13:8  Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Exo 3:14  And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
Joh 8:57  Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
Joh 8:58  Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
Joh 8:59  Then took they up stones to cast at him: (because Jesus claimed the name of God)

Joh 10:9  I am the door:
Joh 10:11  I am the good shepherd:
Joh 11:25  … I am the resurrection,
Joh 14:6  Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life:
Joh 14:10  Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me?
Joh 15:1  I am the true vine,

Joh 5:17  But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.
Joh 5:18  Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

Mat 1:23  Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Joh 14:1  Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

Acts 7:59, “And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.”

Watch the squirming begin

[music4two]

Quote (Is 1:18 @ Dec. 23 2006,09:09)

WP and I have come to understandings before about attitudes. I am curious about your attitude. I am troubled by your preface of a believed mistake on my part. When a person says
He He” when seeing what they percieve a mistake by others I have to wonder about their heart in the mater.
Does you obvious joy come from your perception that you
got” someone?
Does your joy come from proving yourself right?
Curous — think about it.

In the majority of my post I have tried to urge board members to look at the motives and intentions of the heart of God and to ask ourselves if our motives and intentions match His in our actions and teachings.
think about it —–

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote

Let's test out your theory that (Logos)”word” should be translated Jesus. In the following few verses I have replaced “Logos” with “Jesus”. Do they become clearer or more confusing?

m42

Please explain. Who was the “Word that was made flesh?”.

Jn 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

[NickHassan]

Quote (Cult Buster @ Dec. 23 2006,10:44)

Jesus is God Col 2:9  For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily Phi 2:5  Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus Phi 2:6  Who being in the form of God  thought it not robbery to be equal with God Rom 9:5  Whose are the fathers  and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came  who is over all God blessed for ever Amen Tit 2:13  Looking for that blessed hope  and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ 1Ti 3:16  And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness  God was manifest in the flesh 1Jo 5:20  And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding  that we may know him that is true  and we are in him that is true  even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God  and eternal life. Isa 9:6  For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Rev 1:8  I am Alpha and Omega (Jesus speaking), the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. Joh 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Joh 1:14  And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,.. Mic 5:2  But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting. Heb 7:16  Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life. Mat 26:63  But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God. Mat 26:64  Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. Mat 26:65  Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; (The high priest understood Jesus’ claim to be God and wrongly accused Him of blasphemy.) Blasphemy can only be committed against God. Mat 9:2  And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee. Mat 9:3  And, behold, certain of the scribes said within themselves, This man blasphemeth. (They knew that only God can forgive sins.) Mat 9:4  And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts? 2Co 4:4  In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. Col 1:15  Who is the image of the invisible God,… Heb 1:2  Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Heb 1:3  Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; Heb 1:8  But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. 1Jo 5:20  And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life. Isa 40:3  The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God (Jesus). Rev 22:13  I (Jesus) am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Joh 1:3  All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. Joh 1:10  He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. Col 1:16  For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: Heb 1:2  Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Heb 1:10  And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: Gen 1:26  And God said, Let us make man in our image, Col 1:17  And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. Mat 9:6  But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house. Mar 2:5  When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee. Mar 2:6  But there were certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts, Mar 2:7  Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only? Col 3:13  Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye. Joh 5:22  For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: Joh 5:23  That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. Joh 14:1  Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. Heb 1:6  And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. Rev 22:8  And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things. Rev 22:9  Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God. Mat 28:9  And they came and held him (Jesus) by the feet, and worshipped him. Joh 20:28  And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God (Theos). Joh 20:29  Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. Jer 23:5  Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. Jer 23:6  In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD (Yhovah)OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS. Rev 2:23  And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. Mar 2:28  Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath. Exo 20:10  But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: 1Co 10:4  And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. Deu 32:3  Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God. Deu 32:4  He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he. 1Sa 2:2  There is non e holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God. 1Sa 2:2  There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God. Psa 78:35  And they remembered that God was their rock, and the high God their redeemer. 1Co 10:4  And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. Exo 20:1  And God spake all these words, saying, Exo 20:2  I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. 1Co 10:2  And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 1Co 10:4  And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. 2Ti 4:1  I charge thee therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; Mal 3:6  For I am the LORD (yhovah), I change not; Heb 13:8  Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. Exo 3:14  And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. Joh 8:57  Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Joh 8:58  Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. Joh 8:59  Then took they up stones to cast at him: (because Jesus claimed the name of God) Joh 10:9  I am the door: Joh 10:11  I am the good shepherd: Joh 11:25  … I am the resurrection, Joh 14:6  Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: Joh 14:10  Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? Joh 15:1  I am the true vine, Joh 5:17  But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. Joh 5:18  Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. Mat 1:23  Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. Joh 14:1  Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. Acts 7:59, “And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” Watch the squirming begin

Hi CB,
Is God ,God too?
Two gods?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote

Hi CB, Is God ,God too? Two gods?

NH

Why do you even ask this? You know that we believe their is three in the Godhead. This is scriptural as he has shown.

So if you respond then why not show us where these scriptures that CB quoted can be interpreted differently.

Or Can you? If not then why do you deny them. Maybe you should write your own Bible and leave them out.

Call it the New World Translation II or something.

[NickHassan]

Hi W,
GODHEAD means divine nature and not a committee.
Those are human teachings but scripture says otherwise.
God is ONE and has a son that he anointed with His own Spirit.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote

Hi W, GODHEAD means divine nature and not a committee. Those are human teachings but scripture says otherwise. God is ONE and has a son that he anointed with His own Spirit. ————–

NH

Acts 17:9

Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

Godhead, theios, 1) a general name of deities or divinities as used by the Greeks

Col 2:9
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

theotes, ) deity

a) the state of being God, Godhead

Theotes comes from the root theos.
1) a god or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities

NH

What bible do you read?

Do you have any missing pages?

Listen my friend, you really should be honest and sincere about all of the word.

IITim 2
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

——————————————————————————–

[NickHassan]

Hi W,
So you believe that a KJV manuscript word that has three different greek bases
is a strong foundation for building on a theory that God is three?

Why not listen to the Master?

“God is ONE”

[Is 1:18]

Quote (music4two @ Dec. 23 2006,16:23)

Quote (Is 1:18 @ Dec. 23 2006,09:09) WP and I have come to understandings before about attitudes. I am curious about your attitude. I am troubled by your preface of a believed mistake on my part. When a person says He He” when seeing what they percieve a mistake by others I have to wonder about their heart in the mater. Does you obvious joy come from your perception that you got” someone? Does your joy come from proving yourself right? Curous — think about it. In the majority of my post I have tried to urge board members to look at the motives and intentions of the heart of God and to ask ourselves if our motives and intentions match His in our actions and teachings. think about it —–

Okay, i'll think about it. But I wondering why you haven't yet issued a heartfelt apology to WJ for accussing him of being “dishonest with scripture”, when he was not.

Quote (music4two @ Dec. 23 2006,04:16)

You have misquoted this vese completely. I don’t even have a rule for that one because unless this was a complete mistake I cannot concieve of anyone being that dishonest with scripture.

[Author]

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