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Quote (t8 @ Dec. 12 2006,02:42) Quote (sscott @ Dec. 12 2006,00:03) This is what I find happens when people cannot explain scriptures that seem to contradict what they believe is true. Instead of searching it out they just quote some other “proof text” to back up their doctrine. It's debating at such an immature level that I would hardly call it debating or dialog. It's rather fruitless.
Hi sscott.I am glad that I am not the only one who thinks this.
I could not agree more. That is why I have several times tried to depart from the cut and paste theology of counterpoint and moved to understanding the functionality of doctrine. Without a functioning teaching all the debate and dialog in the world is just mental exercise. Besodes that there is the unfortunate habit of trying to understand writings from a Hebrew culture with interpretations derived from Greek thinking logic. The scriptures were never intended to be read or understood from a western thinking perspective. The literalization of scripture is not in line with the allegorical way in which the Hebrews wrote. I have several times given examples of this nature, but sp far have seen no one take it seriously. As long as everyone continues to attempt to understand Hebrew culture with western thinking I can not take their comments seriously.Sscott.
Re. your 5 questions.Q1. Your comments. God is a Trinity..without one member of the Trinity you do not have God.
There are a number of models of the “trinity” being used in Christianity today and your question I assume deals with the Catholic trinity.
In a nutshell the Catholics teach that originally there was God the Father and that He copulated with Himself to produce God the Son, and then out of them both came the Holy Spirit. A three in one, one in three blend. This is unbiblical rubbish borrowed from paganism. No wonder it does not provide answers to your questions.
The word trinity is not found in scripture and I prefer not to use it. In the old testament we have the word “Elohiym” meaning God in the plurality or Gods. The new testament uses words like Godhead and Deity. (Theos Theios, Theiotes,)
The Bible Godhead consist of The Father, Son and the Holy Ghost. Each is a separate divine Person and each the Eternal God. The new testament Greek word for God “Theos” sometime refers individually to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit: and at other times refers to the Godhead. We must read scripture in its context to know Who it refers to.
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: /I]
Your question
So when Jesus cries out “My God My God why have you forsaken me”….how is it possible that God forsook God?
With the Catholic “trinity” it does not make sense, but with the Bible Godhead then it makes perfect sense. At the cross God withdrew His presence from Christ because of our sins.
2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
This was the first time in eternity that Christ was separated from God. This started in Gethsemane; hence His suffering.
Isa 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.
It was our sins placed on the spotless Lamb of God that separated Christ from God.
Q2. Your comments
If Jesus was 100% God and 100% man how could He sin? God cannot be tempted to sin. Jesus had to have the possibility of sinning or else he could not be a faithful High Priest able to sympathize with our weakness.
There has on this forum been much confusion between Christ’s mission or “office” as Messiah and that of His substance which is The Eternal God. With respect to Matt Slick I’d rather follow what the Bible teaches.
When Christ was to leave heaven and was to take the form of a man He did not cease to be God. He simply put aside His own divine power and was dependent on God for power. This makes Him our example to follow because we too are to depend totally on God.
Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
He had to overcome Satan while living as a man. Christ did not come to earth to show what a God can do, but what man can do when he depends on God for power. He succeeded where Adam failed.
Heb 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
Heb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
Heb 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
A human body was fashioned for Christ. A body which had sinful propensities just like ours. A body less than what Adam had, weakened by the curse of sin.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Christ condemned sin in the flesh. He resisted sin. Don’t forget that He laid aside His divine power and did not use it for His own benefit, overcoming temptation relying on God for power. We too can resist temptation if we rely on God for power. Christ was our example.
Heb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
Heb 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.Luk 4:2 (Jesus) Being forty days tempted of the devil.
Luk 4:12 And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.Who was being tempted here? Jesus; The Lord thy God.
1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Q.3 Your comments
There are many instances in the scripture where Jesus calls the Father..His God and says the Father is greater than I. I always thought this was in reference to Jesus being a Man on earth. But you also have accounts of Jesus calling the Father His God after the resurection. He calls the Father His God when speaking to Mary and again in Revelations. (Rev 3:12) Why is Jesus still calling the Father His God? There is also a passage that says the head of Jesus is God. (1 Cor 11:3)
In many of these instances Jesus was encumbered with humanity or within the context of Him being the Messiah. Don’t forget that Christ is still ministering for us right now as our High Priest in the heavenly sanctuary. So His mission is not yet over.
Even within the Godhead each Divine Person recognise and have reverence for the other as God.
Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Q.4 Your comments
In John 5:26 Jesus says:
26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself,This is also in the context of Christ mission as Messiah. Within the Godhead a plan was made for the salvation of man. It is evident that each divine Person within the Godhead takes on a different office or role. It is a pity that we too cannot learn to work together and to serve each other.
Q.5 Your comments
John 6:58 says:
57 As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me.This also is in the context of Christ’s mission as Messiah. I have already covered this.
sscott. The catholic trinity concept is clearly wrong, however most of the other Christian churches are teaching the Bible Godhead which is truth. However it is unfortunate that they use the word “trinity” which sometimes confuses theirs with the Catholic teaching.
Beware of the false teachers here on this forum; they will lead you astray.
Christ describes them well.
Mat 23:24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Col 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:They are wilfully blind.
2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4:4 And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
sscott. I hope that I have addressed all of your concerns.
Hi CB,
Why have you not listened to the scriptures you quoted, as you have become entangled in the traditions and the deceit of foolish greek human wisdom?Next thing you will be telling us God is a greek government, a DEMOCRACY called a godhead, that votes who has to do the dirty work and come to earth.
Abhor such absurd follies.
CB —–
Let me respond to some of your statements –
You say,
The word trinity is not found in scripture and I prefer not to use it. In the old testament we have the word “Elohiym” meaning God in the plurality or Gods. The new testament uses words like Godhead and Deity. (Theos Theios, Theiotes,)
Answer-
I have dealt with the word Elohiym before. Did you read it or ignor it? You are trying to understand Hebrew writing with Greek thinking again. The plurality you speak of is just as often not refering to a quanity of things as it is of a quality of a singular thing.Godhead Diety (Theos Theios, Theiotes,) simply means God. Jesus was filled with God. Does this make Him God?
In Ephesians 3
3(F)that by revelation there was made known to me the mystery, as I wrote before in brief.
(here we see Paul speaking of a mystery)4By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ,
(Here we see it is the mystery of Christ)5which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit;
6to be specific, that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel,
7of which I was made a minister, according to the gift of God's grace which was given to me according to the working of His power.
8To me, the very least of all saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unfathomable riches of Christ,
9and to bring to light what is the administration of the mystery which for ages has been hidden in God who created all things;
10so that the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known through the church to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenly places.
11This was in accordance with the eternal purpose which He carried out in Christ Jesus our Lord,
(Here is clear proof that Jesus is the eternal purpose of Of God. The Logos which is the plan motive and intent of God)12in whom we have boldness and confident access through faith in Him.
13Therefore I ask you not to lose heart at my tribulations on your behalf, for they are your glory.
14For this reason I bow my knees before the Father,
(Now the context switches from Christ to the Father)15from whom every family in heaven and on earth derives its name,
16that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with power through His Spirit in the inner man,
(The context now is about us. The Spirit of the Father (God) in us)17so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; and that you, being rooted and grounded in love,
18may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth,
19and to know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled up to all the fullness of God.
(So we are also to be filled with the fullness of God. Does this make us Gods?)If Col 2/9 saying Jesus is filled wth all the fullnes of the Godhead = deity = God, and that makes Jesus God then we are also Gods.
You say –
The Bible Godhead consist of The Father, Son and the Holy Ghost. Each is a separate divine Person and each the Eternal God. The new testament Greek word for God “Theos” sometime refers individually to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit: and at other times refers to the Godhead. We must read scripture in its context to know Who it refers to.Answer – It is almost funny that you admit that the word Trinity is not in scripture then you use words just as unscriptural to describe you beliefs. Words like “separate divine person”. You make statements like “The Bible Godhead consist of The Father, Son and the Holy Ghost”, without any scripture as proof.
Your proof? –
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:Answer –
Again you do not take into consideration the rest of scripture. You state that it must be read in context but do not consider the context that in every case in Acts where it speaks of baptizing in a name they do so in the name of Jesus. Did the Apostle disobey Jesus?You say,
So when Jesus cries out “My God My God why have you forsaken me”….how is it possible that God forsook God?
With the Catholic “trinity” it does not make sense, but with the Bible Godhead then it makes perfect sense. At the cross God withdrew His presence from Christ because of our sins.Answer,
Check out the context and time frame of which Jesus is saying the following verse. They will all leave him during His trial and crucifiction and yet His Father will not? The following time sequince is the crucifiction.
32″Behold, an hour is coming, and has already come, for you to be scattered, each to his own home, and to leave Me alone; and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with Me.
God never left Jesus.You state –
Isa 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.
It was our sins placed on the spotless Lamb of God that separated Christ from God.answer –
You use this verse to refer to Christ and yet misquote it to make the application. This verse applies to the rest of humanity not to Jesus. If it is applicable then it must be fully applicable!
But Jesus’s iniquities have separated between Jesus and his God, and his sins have hid his face from Jesus, that he will not hear.The rest of your coment is so full of contradictions, I am not even going to go there. I believe I have shown enough to see the falacy of your study skills.
I would like to ask a simple question of the people on this board.
What is doctrine?
Scripture says doctrine is teaching. If that is the case, then what is the purpose of this teaching process?
Other then a mental exercise or intelectual data, what is teaching supposed to accompolish in us?Hi m42,
You say
” 11This was in accordance with the eternal purpose which He carried out in Christ Jesus our Lord,
(Here is clear proof that Jesus is the eternal purpose of Of God. The Logos which is the plan motive and intent of God)Woops.. you have moved from the
purpose
BEING CARRIED OUT IN CHRIST to
CHRIST BEING THAT PLAN or purpose.
That is sleight of handThere is no justification in that verse for saying that the Logos, Christ IS the plan of God.
He is the WORD of God, expressed or spoken from God.Quote (music4two @ Dec. 13 2006,04:06) I would like to ask a simple question of the people on this board. What is doctrine?
Scripture says doctrine is teaching. If that is the case, then what is the purpose of this teaching process?
Other then a mental exercise or intelectual data, what is teaching supposed to accompolish in us?
Hi m42,
Our reliance is not on our words but on the power of the Word of God.Is 55
“Isaiah 55:11
So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it”2 Corinthians 10:5
We are destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ,God's Word will win over man's follies.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 13 2006,04:19) Hi m42,
You say
” 11This was in accordance with the eternal purpose which He carried out in Christ Jesus our Lord,
(Here is clear proof that Jesus is the eternal purpose of Of God. The Logos which is the plan motive and intent of God)Woops.. you have moved from the
purpose
BEING CARRIED OUT IN CHRIST to
CHRIST BEING THAT PLAN or purpose.
That is sleight of handThere is no justification in that verse for saying that the Logos, Christ IS the plan of God.
He is the WORD of God, expressed or spoken from God.
You say “He is the WORD of God, expressed or spoken from God.” A statement or speech cannot be a literal being. Jesus can however be an expression of Gods plan, idea or statements. Perhaps I could have stated it that Jesus is the fullfillment of God's plan and therefore the pattern for the rest of mankind.Defining Logos from the Greek
The actual definition of word, according to Vines Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words is…. ( a word) as encompassing an idea, a statement, a speech, not the mere name of an object…..
Further understanding is made in Revelation 1/2 and again in 1/9 John shows a distinction between The Word of God and the Testimony of Jesus. ….. who bore witness of the word ( motive or intention, Logos) of God AND to the testimony of Jesus Christ….. John lists them separately showing a clear distinction between them. This is the same author who wrote the book of John. It seems he is making clear what he wrote in John 1. In other words John says he bore witness to God’s motive and intention for the Messiah and (in addition to) bore witness to the life and testimony of the messiah/Jesus himself. The literal Greek says, “who bore witness of the word of the God and the witness of Jesus Christ.” The word is the plan, idea or intention of God from the beginning. Jesus is the first fruits, the second Adam, the first one to complete God's plan for all of mankind.
Quote 11This was in accordance with the eternal purpose which He carried out in Christ Jesus our Lord,
(Here is clear proof that Jesus is the eternal purpose of Of God. The Logos which is the plan motive and intent of God)M42
Since you are so insistant on pushing your man made concept of the Word[Logos], as the plan motive and intent of God, then explain the following scripture.
I Jn 1:1
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the **Word of life**;
The gr word for life is “zoe” and it means…
1) lifea) the state of one who is possessed of vitality or is animate
b) every living soul
It was transalted “life” 133 times in the AV.
Now take note at what John says…
That which was from the beginning……….The Word[Logos] of life[Zoe]
That which we have heard…………………The Word[Logos] of life[Zoe]
That which we have seen with our eyes….The Word[Logos] of life[Zoe]
That which we have looked upon…………..The Word[Logos] of life[Zoe]
That which our hands have handled of…….The Word[Logos] of life[Zoe]
Since John was there and penned these words, Im sure he had a reason for using the word [Logos].
Jesus is the living Logos my friend. Throw away your manmade concepts.
Many Godly men have spent their lives and many even died to bring us the purist form of scripture that we have today. And Im not just speaking of the KJV.
Quote The actual definition of word, according to Vines Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words is…. ( a word) as encompassing an idea, a statement, a speech, not the mere name of an object….. W42
You want to talk about Greek language and culture and then you pull out the vines to explain Logos?
Whats up with that???
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 13 2006,04:55) Quote (music4two @ Dec. 13 2006,04:06) I would like to ask a simple question of the people on this board. What is doctrine?
Scripture says doctrine is teaching. If that is the case, then what is the purpose of this teaching process?
Other then a mental exercise or intelectual data, what is teaching supposed to accompolish in us?
Hi m42,
Our reliance is not on our words but on the power of the Word of God.Is 55
“Isaiah 55:11
So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it”2 Corinthians 10:5
We are destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ,God's Word will win over man's follies.
Our reliance is not on our words but on the power of the Word of God.Why do we rely on the Word of God? What are we trying to accompolish?
2 Corinthians 10:5
We are destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ,The question remains why? Is it just so we can be lifted up in pride at our cleverness or our head knowledge of scripture?
“Isaiah 55:11
So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it”God is speaking here. I ask the question then what is it that God wishes to accompolish? Without that understanding we cannot determine the most important thing about doctrine. 'What does it do to accompolish that which God pleases? What does God want for mankind? What is God's plan for man?
Quote God is speaking here. I ask the question then what is it that God wishes to accompolish? Without that understanding we cannot determine the most important thing about doctrine. 'What does it do to accompolish that which God pleases? What does God want for mankind? What is God's plan for man? M42
Read the Gospels. Jesus said it is finished.
Hi m42,
It is vanity to believe we can grasp the things of God through the natural understanding of our mind. The only hope is that the Spirit of God, either spoken by the sons of God or through the written words of the sons inspired by God's Spirit, can reach hearts and plant seeds in men that grow up unto their salvation.We cannot naturally see the kingdom.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 13 2006,05:49) Quote The actual definition of word, according to Vines Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words is…. ( a word) as encompassing an idea, a statement, a speech, not the mere name of an object….. W42
You want to talk about Greek language and culture and then you pull out the vines to explain Logos?
Whats up with that???
I have never condemed Greek Language only thinking in terms of Greek Philosophy. You cannot ignor what the word means in Greek if it is written in Greek.Hi m42,
Isaiah 55:11
So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it”Though this refer to scripture it contains the essence of Christ as Word too.
He proceeded from God.
Jn 8
” 42Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.”Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 13 2006,05:47) Quote 11This was in accordance with the eternal purpose which He carried out in Christ Jesus our Lord,
(Here is clear proof that Jesus is the eternal purpose of Of God. The Logos which is the plan motive and intent of God)M42
Since you are so insistant on pushing your man made concept of the Word[Logos], as the plan motive and intent of God, then explain the following scripture.
I Jn 1:1
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the **Word of life**;
The gr word for life is “zoe” and it means…
1) lifea) the state of one who is possessed of vitality or is animate
b) every living soul
It was transalted “life” 133 times in the AV.
Now take note at what John says…
That which was from the beginning……….The Word[Logos] of life[Zoe]
That which we have heard…………………The Word[Logos] of life[Zoe]
That which we have seen with our eyes….The Word[Logos] of life[Zoe]
That which we have looked upon…………..The Word[Logos] of life[Zoe]
That which our hands have handled of…….The Word[Logos] of life[Zoe]
Since John was there and penned these words, Im sure he had a reason for using the word [Logos].
Jesus is the living Logos my friend. Throw away your manmade concepts.
Many Godly men have spent their lives and many even died to bring us the purist form of scripture that we have today. And Im not just speaking of the KJV.
I am not certain your antagonistic post deserves answering, however, If you want to stick to Jesus being God's statement that is fine. My question to you is what was the purpose of God's statement or speech? What is the purpose of Jesus?Is He the pattern son? Is He the perfect example of what God wishes us to become? Is He our example?
You may choose to bang heads all you want. You show me intelectual data and I will show you the power of God in his plan for mankind. I will show you a functional teaching in the fullfillment of God's plan for man revealed in the man Jesus Christ.
Debating, disecting and data storage is worhtless less it lead to and accompolish a functional path to follow to become like christ.
If what a person teaches does not serve the purpose of enabling others to become like Christ then they ae nothing more the vain philosophers and chattering monkeys.
Jesus is not the Almighty God, he is the son of the Almighty God, the Lord, and the Word of God.
Simple, even a child can believe this.
- True faith believes in one God – the Father and one Lord – Jesus Christ.
- True faith understands that God made Jesus both Lord and Christ.
- True faith understands that Jesus is at the right hand of God, interceeding for us.
- True faith doesn't try to change truth into a lie.
Any doctrine or teaching that tries to change these truths is from the Evil One.
What will be the reward of men who help the Father of Lies in his quest to hide the truths that God has generously revealed to us?
Quote (t8 @ Dec. 13 2006,09:39) Jesus is not the Almighty God, he is the son of the Almighty God, the Lord, and the Word of God. Simple, even a child can believe this.
- True faith believes in one God – the Father and one Lord – Jesus Christ.
- True faith understands that God made Jesus both Lord and Christ.
- True faith understands that Jesus is at the right hand of God, interceeding for us.
- True faith doesn't try to change truth into a lie.
Any doctrine or teaching that tries to change these truths is from the Evil One.
What will be the reward of men who help the Father of Lies in his quest to hide the truths that God has generously revealed to us?
Jesus is not the Almighty God, he is the son of the Almighty God, the Lord, and the Word of God.Please define “Lord” and “Word”.
Simple, even a child can believe this.
*True faith believes in one God – the Father and one Lord – Jesus Christ.I can agree with this statement depending on how you define “Lord”.
*True faith understands that God made Jesus both Lord and Christ.
Again no problem depending on the definition of Lord and Christ.
*True faith understands that Jesus is at the right hand of God, interceeding for us.
I agree here too providing you agree that “at the right hand of God” is a position of power and not a literal place.
*True faith doesn't try to change truth into a lie.
Any doctrine or teaching that tries to change these truths is from the Evil One.You are right here too. The question remains as it was. That which is truth must be determined.
Some on this board do not want to study the original languages or cultures in which the authors wrote. It is impossible to understand the real meaning the writers were trying to convey without these necessary studies.
Hi m42,
You say
“I agree here too providing you agree that “at the right hand of God” is a position of power and not a literal place.”What did Stephen 'see'?
Acts 7
” 55But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,56And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.”
Quote Jesus is not the Almighty God, he is the son of the Almighty God, the Lord, and the Word of God. Simple, even a child can believe this.
True faith believes in one God – the Father and one Lord – Jesus Christ.
True faith understands that God made Jesus both Lord and Christ.
True faith understands that Jesus is at the right hand of God, interceeding for us.
True faith doesn't try to change truth into a lie.
Any doctrine or teaching that tries to change these truths is from the Evil One.
What will be the reward of men who help the Father of Lies in his quest to hide the truths that God has generously revealed to us?
* True faith believes all of the scriptures and not just a selective few* True faith accepts and Obey the Father Gods decree that his Son is God and sets him at his right hand commanding the creation to honor him as himself
* True Faith believes in the Holy Spirit as a person as Jesus himself taught us
* True Faith Believes in Jesus not just as The Son but as God one with the Father, and Holy Spirit.
What will be the fate of those who reject the teachings of the scriptures, and even what the Father says concerning his Son, therefore assisting the Father of lies, Satan in trying to strip Jesus of his true place with the Father?
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