Jesus christ, almighty god

[SimplyForgiven]

Hi All,
This is part 1 of a long article that talks about how Jesus is God
I organized it the best way i could, if you dont like it feel free to go  to their website, the direct link is found in the bottom of the page,

Part 2 will be in a seperate thread or in this one, not sure yet. much love

Color Key:
Red- Quotes
Green- Biblical scriptures
Orange- Titles
Blue- highlighted points that I found intresting.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Jesus Christ, Almighty God~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Part 1 of 2
“These unfaithful prophets claim I give them their dreams, but it isn’t true. I didn’t choose them to be My prophets, and yet they babble on and on, speaking in My Name, while stealing words from each other. And when My people hear these liars, they are led astray instead of being helped. So I warn you that I am now the enemy of these prophets. I, the LORD, have spoken” (Jeremiah 23:30-32 CEV).

Kenneth Leckey,

I have written a long response to your writing. Why are we pursuing these matters? Because we know the Lord Jesus Christ, and He has given us to do so. He is not pleased with your works, and wants you to know it, for your sake. You are in great error. Instead of bringing life, your teachings rob men of it.
You are teaching from a carnal knowledge learned from others, such as George Hawtin and A.P. Adams, and by your own understanding, which is not founded on the Rock, the Immutable Truth. That will never do.

As it is written:
“First, you must understand this: No prophecy in Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation” (2 Peter 1:20 GW).

There is a place of seeing, and we see you from it. We have the true understanding from Him Who inspired the prophets. It is written:

1 Corinthians 2:11-16 WNT
(11) For, among human beings, who knows a man’s inner thoughts except the man’s own spirit within him? In the same way, also, only God’s Spirit is acquainted with God’s inner thoughts.
(12) But we have not received the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which comes forth from God, that we may know the blessings that have been so freely given to us by God.
(13) Of these we speak–not in language which man’s wisdom teaches us, but in that which the Spirit teaches–adapting, as we do, spiritual words to spiritual truths.
(14) The unspiritual man rejects the things of the Spirit of God, and cannot attain to the knowledge of them, because they are spiritually judged.
(15) But the spiritual man judges of everything, although he is himself judged by no one.
(16) For who has penetrated the mind of the Lord, and will instruct Him? But we have the mind of Christ.

The article to which I have responded is particularly blasphemous. You try to explain the nature of Christ, mostly through others. You are entirely off base in your presumptions and conclusions, because none of it comes from a personal knowledge of Him, by having His mind. The Second Commandment of God forbids using conjectures and opinions to form an image of God. Such is an idol. Man cannot depict, convey, or accurately transmit the Nature of God by something he has conceived in his own imagination. In doing this, you border on blasphemy, if not blaspheme and cause others to blaspheme.

There are two major errors in your article:

One, you speak of the Lord as if He was, in the days of His flesh, no different than anyone else. However, nothing could be further from the truth, according to His essential nature and being:
“For such a high priest became us, Who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners and made higher than the heavens” (Hebrews 7:26 MKJV).

Two, you present the Lord as an example to be followed. For men born of flesh, it is impossible to follow Jesus Christ. You must be born of the Spirit to follow Him, which is not to imitate Him, but to go as He presently leads. In this He causes those who are one with Him, as He was with the Father, to overcome as He did.
This is a serious matter. You are breaking the Law of God because you have made an image of the One Who sits on the throne of Heaven. You are defiling that which is holy and incorruptible. God does not overlook this. You need to consider the words of Moses as you read my answer to your writing, and know that you are being held responsible:
“Make sure that there is no one here today who hears these solemn demands and yet convinces himself that all will be well with him, even if he stubbornly goes his own way. That would destroy all of you, good and evil alike. The LORD will not forgive such a man. Instead, the LORD’s burning anger will flame up against him, and all the disasters written in this book will fall on him until the LORD has destroyed him completely” (Deuteronomy 29:19-20 GNB).

Response to the article “Behold the Man!” by Kenneth Leckey:
“The glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together; for the mouth of the LORD has spoken it” (Isaiah 40:5 HNV).

Who Is Jesus Christ?

In a writing entitled “Behold the Man!” Kenneth Leckey presents A.P. Adams’ teaching and opinion that Jesus Christ shared a fallen nature with all of humanity, and was under the curse of sin, just as weak as any other man, in order to serve as a suitable role model. According to Leckey and Adams, Jesus Christ was a son of God, though an inferior one in nature to Adam, and, without a doubt, was not God Himself.
However, here is my reply: If you see a bird that walks like a duck, swims like a duck, flies like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then you must conclude that it is a duck. If you see a man that walks like God, talks like God, does the works of God, and has every attribute of God, then you have seen God. That is what Jesus Christ Himself said when approached by one of His disciples who asked to see the Father:
“‘Master,’ said Philip, ‘cause us to see the Father: that is all we need.’ ‘Have I been so long among you,’ Jesus answered, ‘and yet you, Philip, do not know Me? He who has seen Me has seen the Father. How can you ask Me, ‘Cause us to see the Father’? Do you not believe that I am in the Father and that the Father is in Me? The things that I tell you all I do not speak on My Own authority: but the Father dwelling within Me carries on His own work. Believe Me, all of you, that I am in the Father and that the Father is in Me; or at any rate, believe Me because of what I do’” (John 14:8-11 WNT).

If you are looking at divinity, you are looking at God, even if you do not recognize what you are seeing; God is a Spirit, not flesh, and the flesh does not comprehend Him. You do not see divinity (God) with outward carnal eyes, but by inward spiritual revelation. This is where much confusion arises in religious circles, as typified by the error of Adams’ teaching. Men are using their carnal senses to depict God, Whom they do not know. Jesus Christ, the Nature of God fully expressed in human form, can only be seen by the opening of the spiritual eyes by the Spirit of God. This is what Jesus declared when Peter said that He was Son of the living God:

“Blessed are you, Simon, son of Jonah, for flesh and blood did not reveal it to you, but My Father in Heaven” (Matthew 16:17 LITV).

In this rebuttal to Leckey and Adams, I will clearly show by Scripture and irrefutable logic that Jes
us Christ is God Almighty, Who, though He appeared in the flesh as a man, was no ordinary man as they allege.

Jesus Christ is not a second god, sub-god, semi-god, quasi-god, or part of a trinity god, but is very God, Lord of lords, the Creator of all things. When He came in the flesh, there had never before been any man like Him, and never since. If any man is like Him now, it is because that person has been born again, receiving His Spirit – just as Jesus, in His physical body, was conceived by the Spirit of God.
I will answer the many objections that Adams, Leckey and company bring up to oppose the fact that Jesus Christ is God (these objections being common to many) and Lord of their lives, along with other errors, so that you might know for certain that Jesus Christ is indeed Lord God Almighty, and that you might find peace with God through Him.

Man’s Version – Fairy Tale Religion

Leckey begins his paper by quoting H.G. Wells:

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“The story of the early beginnings of Christianity is the struggle between the real teachings of Jesus of Nazareth and the limitations, amplifications and misunderstandings of the very inferior men who had loved and followed Him from Galilee…The early Nazarenes, as the followers of Jesus were called, present from the first a spectacle of great confusion between these two strands, His teaching, on the one hand, and the glosses and interpretations of the disciples on the other. They continued for a time His disciplines of the complete subjugation of self….”

To Wells, as with so many, Christ is merely a historical figure Who taught men ways in which they were to follow God. According to Wells, after Jesus ascended into Heaven the disciples were dependent upon their own limited resources to apprehend and manifest His teachings. Being inferior, it did not take long for them to mess things up. Wells calls this failure the “departure from the faith.”

Is not such a faith doomed to failure? How can those of inferior nature become superior? Can a man pull himself up by his own bootstraps? How can it be that Christ, the One Who, because of His superiority, came to lay down His life for the whole world, and is called the Savior of all men, could not help even those closest to Him “get it right”? Did He not choose them? Did He not say He would keep them? Wells is calling Christ a liar or impotent or both. What wisdom is there in God sending His Son if men are powerless to follow Him? But that is precisely why God did send Him! The Savior is the power of God that transforms the faithless into the faithful and victorious children of God.
The Scriptures tell this latter story, a very different one than Wells’ faithless perception of what happened. The Book of Acts records how the followers of Christ were filled with His Spirit on the day of Pentecost, thereafter empowered to do His works and behaving as though Christ was not only present, but in them, because He was!

Wells’ stance sums up the unbelief of man, which goes like this: Jesus Christ passed into History, and, therefore, was and is no longer Personally present to work in and through those who believe on Him by the power of His indwelling Spirit. It is now every man for himself; whoever professes Christ is on his own to do the best he or she can in imitating the Master. This is contrary to what Jesus told His followers (“I will be with you always, even unto the end of the world”), and to their testimonies:
“For truly, against Your Holy Child Jesus, Whom You have anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the nations, and the people of Israel, were gathered together in order to do whatever Your hand and Your counsel determined before to be done. And now, Lord, behold their threatenings, and grant to Your servants that with all boldness they may speak Your Word, by stretching forth of Your hand for healing, and miracles, and wonders may be done by the Name of Your Holy Child Jesus” (Acts 4:27-30 MKJV).

Paul the apostle said it was not he that did the works, but it was Christ Who lived in him (1 Corinthians 15:9). That is not imitation. Paul’s faith was not in following precepts, in the manner that Wells characterizes Christian faith, and, therefore, according to him, Paul missed the mark of Christ because he was not up to the task, being a man of lesser ability. Following precepts to be like God is what Paul was doing before he knew Christ, when he persecuted the Church of God, the mystical Body of Christ. It was after Paul was turned from dead religion and living by the letter of the Law, according to his own power and interpretation, to living by the faith of the Son of God, that he had the power of God to live the Jesus life. Then, he says, “For me to live is Christ” (Philippians 1:21).

To Leckey and Wells, two peas in a pod regarding ignorance of the existence of authentic faith, it is a matter of imitation and getting it right because having the model of Jesus before one to imitate. This model is supposed to inspire mankind to express an innate godliness – should any be of inferior quality in that department, tough luck.
The truth is that the life Jesus Christ lived is so far removed from anything humanly possible, that to those who begin to perceive how He lived and what He did, it is exactly the opposite of inspiring. Trying to achieve His state of godliness by following His example is demoralizing in the extreme. You will have no more success imitating Christ than you would cooking up gold if locked in a room with a stove, a pot, and a handful of straw.
Can you live without sinning? Maybe you think you are not sinning. The rich young ruler thought, as did Saul of Tarsus, that he kept all the Law. How about this, then? Can you leave everything and everyone near to you behind, gather up twelve disciples, have them leave everything and everyone behind to follow you, take them on the road and freely preach in public places, answering and healing anyone who comes to you, and providing for all those with you? Can you command the wind to desist and walk on water? Can you be misunderstood by all, even by your closest companions, and yet maintain your direction and proceed with single-mindedness in the confidence of God? Can you prevail despite deadly opposition by religious powers that do not believe your “self-appointed” preaching? Can you purposefully walk into the hornet’s nest, knowing you will be scourged and crucified, laying down your life for the very people who hate you? Can you lay it down, and then raise your own body from the dead? Can it be said of you that the greatest of prophets to ever live, whether John the Baptist or Moses, is not worthy to untie your shoe? Can no person come unto God except by you?

How are men such as Leckey and Adams so deceived about Christ that they would presume to tell you that you can be the same as He just by imitating Him? What reason could there be other than they do not know what they are talking about, and do not care to know? They may profess to believe in Him, but they do not. They believe in themselves. They know Christ on an intellectual, self-serving basis, making Him in their own image and calling that “Jesus Christ.” What they are actually saying is: “I am equivalent to Christ. I can do what He did.” Because Christ did the works of God, they are also making themselves equivalent to God. By telling everyone else that they can be as Christ (God), they deny their hearers the salvation that comes by receiving
the only begotten, superior Son of God as their Savior, and rob Him of the honor and worship that is His due. They lay an impossible burden on men to exalt themselves, yet cannot (and would not) perform that which they suggest.

The whole spirit and attitude is anti-Christ, meaning, man taking the place of Christ, Who is God.

Christ – The Power of God to All Who Believe

Wells brings up these central questions:

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“Jesus called Himself the Son of God and also the Son of Man; but he laid little stress on who He was or what He was, and much upon the teachings of the kingdom…Was Jesus God? Or had God created Him? Was he identical with God or separate from God?…By the fourth century of the Christian era we find all Christian communities so agitated and exasperated by torturous and elusive arguments about the nature of God as to be largely negligent of the simpler teachings of charity, service, and brotherhood that Jesus had inculcated.”

What Wells does not know or recognize is that the teachings of Christ are Who He is. You cannot separate Him from His teachings, and you cannot fulfill His teachings without Him living inside you. Jesus said that He is the way, the truth, and the life. He did not say that about His teachings. Therefore, you cannot absorb and manifest His teachings unless you have absorbed Him. That is why He said:
“I am the living bread come down out of Heaven. If a man eats this bread, he shall live forever. Moreover the bread which I will give is My flesh given for the life of the world…In most solemn truth I tell you…that unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you” (John 6:51, 53 WNT).

The life is in Him, not in us, or in words on a page. Imitating Christ, the point of His appearing and ministry according to those whose beliefs we are examining, is really the way of false religion. It is false because it is dependent on, and powered by, man’s efforts at understanding, love, worship, and brotherhood, rather than the love and wisdom of God that comes from having His life. If mankind was up to the job, and had it within himself to do these things, why was a Savior sent to save him? Those attributing the power of godly imitation to man, and exercising a presumed spiritual authority based on the knowledge of that power, represent the very same self-righteous spirit that crucified the Christ.
Man naturally rejects God, preferring to keep his own counsel, which is why he needs the Savior in the first place. “Do-it-yourself” religion rejects the Savior (despite what it says) and, according to God, is thereby responsible for all the bloodshed on earth:
“And in her was found the blood of prophets and saints, and of all those who had been slain on the earth” (Revelation 18:24 EMTV).

Unless you know Who Christ is by personal revelation, and He lives within you by His Spirit, you cannot serve God or mankind profitably in the things of God. Only by having His Nature and walking in His power, will one do the works of God. Those will be authentic and not imitation works. Understand that because we live in a world filled with fake faith does not mean there is not the Real. All the more, therefore, does the Real shine forth when He appears.

True believers in God know Christ is God because He enables them to forsake all that they must to walk with Him.That which was impossible for man is possible with God through Christ. Through Christ you can be saved from your sins to walk in the will of God. If you truly know anything about Him, and in earnest try to imitate Him, you will soon come to see that you are helpless. Before Christ is revealed, you think, as does Leckey, that you are as God to determine right and wrong, and that you can choose the right in your own power. That is how one can be deceived, though speaking ever so sincerely in his error and wrongness.

When I say that you must know Christ is God Almighty, I am obviously not talking about an intellectual, doctrinal knowing. I am talking about an experiential knowing. This knowing comes by faith, which is a gift, and is not something you can attain by emulation or any other means. If you have this faith and believe – meaning you are fully dependent in all you are and do on God through the Lord Jesus Christ – you will not perish in your sins. Christ will save you. (Indeed, that you have faith is a token of His salvation already in process.) You will learn the difference between spirit and flesh, life and death, light and darkness, God’s righteousness and self-righteousness. Until you are born again, you have only darkness within. When the true Light has begun to shine {on your heart}, you will know by faith who and what you are, because in the Light of Christ you will see. That is why we are sent to preach Him, the Light of all men, and not the emulation of Him, or any other thing, though we establish and uphold His Law as the reflection of His true Essence and Nature.

The Law of God, which is the basis of the morals and teachings of Jesus to which Wells refers, was manifest in Christ and revealed man’s sinfulness:
“And seeing, Simon Peter fell at the knees of Jesus, saying, Depart from me, for I am a sinful man, Lord” (Luke 5:8 LITV).
As Christ manifests the perfection of God’s Law, so the Law demonstrates man’s need of Him, the Savior, to walk in it. He reveals both the problem and the solution. It is God Who opens the eyes to see, and the ears to hear. Only He can give men the senses to repent and learn to walk as they ought.

God Takes On Human Form

Leckey writes that Gethsemane (the garden where the Lord agonized over His impending crucifixion) illustrates the humanity of Christ:

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“He was not God pretending to be a man; but rather a son of Abraham who was about to taste death for every man.”

Who says that God, because He took on flesh and blood when He sent the only begotten Son into the world, was pretending to be a man? He was a man. But was He only a son of Abraham? He was much more, as Jesus said to the descendants of Abraham:
“Then He put a question to them: How is it that they say that the Messiah is David’s son? In the Book of Psalms, David clearly says, ‘God said to my Master, Sit here at My right hand until I put Your enemies under Your feet.’ David here designates the Messiah as ‘my Master’–so how can the Messiah also be his son?” (Luke 20:41-44 MSG)
The Messiah was not pretending to be a man. He bled real blood on the cross. The fact that it was the Son of God Who shed His blood makes it all the more powerful. Who will dispute that? The only pretending going on here is where men presume they have the power of Christ to exercise godliness when they do not.

God became a man, in all respects as we are, except without sin. That made Him – Jesus Christ – unique, as there never was, or has been, such a man. Only the One without sin was found worthy to open the Book of Life:
“And I wept very much, because no one was found worthy to open and to read the book, nor to look at it. And one of the elders said to
me, Do not weep. Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has prevailed to open the book and to loose the seven seals of it” (Revelation 5:4-5 MKJV).

In the days of His flesh, it was said of Jesus:
“No human has ever spoken like this man” (John 7:46 GW).
Now we know that God is an omnipotent Spirit, and not a man. That does not, however, preclude the Omnipotent Spirit, God, from becoming a man. Who can deny that God has that power, and who can prove He would not and has not exercised it? They would be calling the Bible untrue. Read the eighteenth chapter of Genesis for starters.

Leckey recalls that it was prophesied of John the Baptist by his father that John would be the prophet of the Highest, going before the Lord to prepare the way for His coming. Why Leckey brings this to our attention is not known, because he makes nothing of it, but does that mean we should overlook what is plainly being said there? Just Who is it that John introduced to Israel?
“And you, child, will be called the prophet of the Highest, for you shall go before the face of the Lord to prepare His ways, to give knowledge of salvation to His people by the remission of their sins, through the tender mercy of our God; by which the Dayspring from on high has visited us, to give light to those who sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace” (Luke 1:76-79 MKJV).
Since when has any man been called the “Highest”? Who is the Highest if not God Almighty? Who is more exalted than He? And Who but God can save us from our sins? The Jews knew the answer, having been taught of God:
“The teachers of the Law and the Pharisees began to say to themselves, ‘Who is this man who speaks such blasphemy! God is the only One Who can forgive sins!’” (Luke 5:21 GNB)
Furthermore, Who is the Dayspring from on high that brings light to those in darkness, if not God?
“This then is the message which we have heard of Him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in Him is no darkness at all” (1 John 1:5 KJV).

We know that no ordinary human being can be the Light that lightens every person in the world:
“There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. He came for witness, to give witness about the Light, so that all men might have faith through Him. He himself was not the Light: he was sent to give witness about the Light. The true Light, which gives light to every man, was then coming into the world. He was in the world, the world which came into being through Him, but the world had no knowledge of Him” (John 1:6-10 BBE).
In other words, God, Who is light, became flesh, a human being called Jesus Christ. John calls Christ the Light. He also says this about Him:
“But if we walk in the Light [Christ], as He [God] is in the Light [Christ], we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His [God’s] Son cleanses us from all sin” (1 John 1:7 MKJV).
Jesus Christ is God’s Way to bring Light and Life to mankind, to make man in His image. Like begets like. Only God can beget children of God. That is why He became a man, to build a habitation for man in Himself, and Himself in man. He identified with man and thereby provided the way for mankind to be born from above and identify with Him.

Christ Exposes Man’s Polluted Doctrine

Leckey is right to say that Jesus is the Son of God but not God the Son. At least He is not the latter as spoken of by trinitarians, who use that description to designate Him as another being, separate from God. Jesus is the Son of God because God conceived Himself in human form, His Essence localized in time and space in a flesh and blood body, the same as any man, while He, the Father of spirits, reigned over all realms, as always. Christ is not God the Son because there is still only one God, though He directly and independently manifested Himself as a human being in our dimension.

In the same manner there is the Spirit of God, Who is also called the Spirit of Christ (1 Peter 1:11 and Romans 8:9), but there is no God the Spirit or Christ the Spirit. If that were so, there would actually be four gods in one instead of three in one, a “Quadrinity.” But the whole notion of multiple gods is confusion and rubbish.
How can God be manifest in more than one realm? The same way He can make a virgin give birth without the presence or help of a man – through the power of His Spirit. His rulership and Presence pervades all realms, visible and invisible. To deny this expression of His power is to deny that God is actively engaged and is ruling over all things in our world.
Through a virgin giving birth, God entered our sphere of existence as one of us. Though He was God (Spirit), He lived a life as the Son of Man (flesh and blood) in submission to the will of the Father (Spirit). That is why Jesus prayed and spoke to God, and spoke of Him as the Father. He was confined to a body and the weaknesses to which all men are prone, being flesh and blood, and was dependent on God to overcome them, just as we are. Being God in Spirit, He was able to do what no man could ever do, which is to perfectly depend on the Father in the weakness of His flesh.

For those who find the seeming contradiction of God being Father and Son, in Heaven and on earth simultaneously, an insurmountable one, consider some of the contradictions of your own position, which demonstrate the weakness of your logical arguments against this truth. Earlier I quoted where Jesus told Philip that those who have seen Him have seen the Father.

Question:
If the Son is not the Father, how then can Jesus say they have seen the Father by seeing the Son? What would be the point of seeing the Father then? Or is it that none born of God will ever see their own Father?

Jesus says that He is in the Father and the Father is in Him. He also says, “He who believes on Me, the works that I do he shall do also, and greater works than these he shall do, because I go to My Father” (John 14:12 MKJV).

Question: How can He go to His Father if, as He said, “Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me”? Is He not already there?

Question: If, as proponents of the doctrine of the trinity claim, the Son is co-equal with the Father, how is it Jesus says, “The Words that I speak to you I do not speak of Myself, but the Father Who dwells in Me, He does the works.” Or how is it He says, “My Father is greater than I” (14:28)?

You may ask some of these questions of us because these statements seem to indicate more than one Being, and therefore contradict what we say, but consider that they also contradict what you say. So, then, how can you be so sure of your position?
This we say, that we know the Father because we know the Son, and we know the Son because we know the Father, and we know that He is One.“Hear, O Israel, the Lord your God is one Lord.”
Is it important to us that you understand this truth? No. It is important to us that the Lord is glorified in the Son, Whom we are.
Jesus, in the laying down of His will as a human being, paved the way for us to do the same – to lay down our
lives in Him, as is desirable and needful for our salvation. We have not been able to do this on our own, hampered by sin and prisoners of our own selfishness and carnality, until God (Christ) came into our realm and we overcame through Him. In Christ the commandments and promises of God meet together – we fulfill the Law of God, overcoming sin and the flesh, and God fulfills His destiny in us through Christ. Glory Hallelujah!

His glorious destiny is:
“And the seventh angel trumpeted. And there were great voices in Heaven, saying, The kingdoms of the world became our Lord’s, even of His Christ; and He shall reign to the ages of the ages” (Revelation 11:15 LITV).
God will have all men to know and to serve Him, being freed from the corruption of sin that brings death, in order to walk in His righteousness that is life. “He shall reign,” not “they,” because there are not two Lords, but one Lord God, Whose Kingdom will fill the earth. Our Lord reigns because His Christ overcame sin, not for Himself, but for us, and in us. When this victory becomes ours by His faith and our obedience in that faith, then do we experience the kingdoms of the world becoming God’s through His Christ. Praise God! What He has done in one, He will do in all.

The Author’s Work Is His Life

A good point Leckey brings up is that Jesus is not mentioned in the list of men and women of faith in Hebrews chapter 11. Surely as our “perfect model” He should top the list of inspirational testimonies. But He is not there. Why? The answer is because Jesus is not our model of faith; He is the Author and Perfecter of it. The One Who gives us faith and perfects us in it is much more than an example or model. Leckey defers to Barnes’ Bible commentary’s explanation of this verse, which is wrong:

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“The meaning [Author and Perfecter of our faith] is, he is the first and the last as an example of faith or of confidence in God – occupying in this, as in all other things, the pre-eminence, and being the most complete model that can be placed before us.”

Multitudes of religious presenting Jesus Christ as a role model, or claiming that they follow Him as such, are not living up to His example, are they? Quite the opposite. Millions claim to be following His example, and where is it getting them and this world? Strife, confusion, hypocrisy, disease, catastrophes, apathy, rebellion, favor shown to destroyers, persecution of peacemakers, rampant greed and lust concealed by false piety, the list goes on and on, and it can all be laid at the feet of those who tell others they should be following the example of Jesus. No, Jesus Christ did not come to give us the perfect example to follow, and to lay this burden on others. He said, “Follow Me,” not, “Follow My example.” He said to His apostles, “Feed My sheep,” not, “Tell them to figure it out with the knowledge you give them, so that they can do it themselves.” With what are His sheep fed? With Him.
To follow Christ is to have a relationship with the living God, led by His Presence in which He conceives, by His Spirit, a new nature in a human being that grows up into His likeness. Following a role model is man leading himself in his conception of God, wherein every person does that which is right in his or her own eyes. Such who do this are ever learning but never coming to a knowledge of the Truth. Jesus Christ is the Truth.
Leckey calls his man-made model “Jesus Christ,” but it is not the Lord Jesus Christ. It is a dead man made in his own image. There comes a time when all who follow this way will hear differently from the One they presume to copy:
“You have done all this, and I have said nothing, so you thought that I am like you. But now I reprimand you and make the matter plain to you” (Psalms 50:21 GNB).

The Author’s Work Is Our Life

Barnes continues:

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“The phrase ‘the beginner of faith,’ or the leader on of faith, would express the idea. He is at the head of all those who have furnished an example of confidence in God, for he was himself the most illustrious instance of it. The expression, then, does not mean properly that he produces faith in us, or that we believe because he causes us to believe – whatever may be the truth about that – but that he stands at the head as the most eminent example that can be referred to on the subject of faith.”

If Barnes cannot state the truth about these things, why does he bother wasting everyone’s time with his commentary? But we know the truth and speak it without apology; nothing less will do. The “beginner of faith” is not a matter of Christ being an eminent example, but of being preeminent as the Initiator of faith, the One Who calls and chooses us, causing us to will and to do of His good pleasure:
“You have not chosen Me, but I chose you out and planted you, that you should go and should bear fruit, and your fruit remain, that whatever you should ask the Father in My Name, He may give you” (John 15:16 LITV).
If you profess to believe but do not experience these things you have not yet come into His faith.

Without Jesus Christ no one has the faith that results in the right doing of God:
“But now a righteousness of God has been revealed apart from Law, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets; even the righteousness of God through the faith of Jesus Christ, toward all and upon all those who believe” (Romans 3:21-22 MKJV).

“Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified” (Galatians 2:16 KJV).

Barnes is wrong to say “the beginner of faith” does not mean that Christ produces the faith of God in those who believe. That is precisely the case:

“But the Scripture shut up all under sin, so that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe” (Galatians 3:22 MKJV).

“For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God” (Ephesians 2:8 EMTV).

“Jesus said unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes unto the Father, but by Me” (John 14:6 KJV).

Barnes is another man in a multitude of self-made “Christians,” not having received the gift of faith from God through Christ, but having manufactured a religious one, where knowledge, philosophy, and human belief substitute for the real thing. To him the cross of Christ is a historical event, a doctrine enshrined in a tomb, and not a living reality for the believer who also partakes in an ignominious and public death in this world by taking up his cross with Christ. Proving my point, Barnes says:

Q uote

“It is difficult for us now to realize the force of the expression, ‘enduring the shame of the cross,’ as it was understood in the time of the Saviour and the apostles. The views of the world have changed….”

By denying the present applicability of the cross and reducing the understanding of it to a carnal, historical knowledge, this teaching makes the living Lord Jesus Christ inaccessible to those who would follow it. The Lord is nowhere present or needed. His exhortation to take up the cross is irrelevant, according to unbelieving “believers.” The truth is that if we do not presently identify with Christ, forsaking this wicked world and enduring the shame of the cross, we cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who lose their lives will gain them. A crossless gospel, the one we are refuting here, is unreal and fosters false hopes that ultimately lead to disillusionment, disenfranchisement, disdain, cynicism and despair, with sins multiplied, and death and destruction following in tow, just as the Lord promised.

Christ Identical to God

Next up, Kenneth Leckey calls on A.P. Adams, whom he says is “especially helpful for all who seek an answer to our Lord’s searching question, ‘Who do you say the Son of Man is?’” Adams does prove helpful in this matter, not because he knows what he is talking about, but because his error serves as a backdrop for the Light and Truth that will liberate humanity from its denial of Jesus Christ as Lord and from the deceitful games played with His Person. These games lead men to the impossible task of trying to manufacture Him without His Presence.

He starts by throwing down the gauntlet and ridiculing the truth that Christ is Almighty God:

Quote

“The orthodox doctrine, that Christ the Son is absolutely God the Father;– in the language of the creeds; “the very unoriginated God,” is not only absurd, self-contradictory and unscriptural, but it is confusing, misleading and discouraging to the soul seeking after God.”

If Christ the Son is not the Father, God Almighty, then the question becomes, “Just Who is He, since there is only one God Who holds the same title as Christ as the One and only Savior?”:“Give the word, put forward your cause, let us have a discussion together: Who has given news of this in the past? Who made it clear in early times? Did not I, the Lord? And there is no God but Me; a true God and a Savior; there is no other. Let your hearts be turned to Me, so that you may have salvation, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is no other. By Myself have I taken an oath, a true word has gone from My mouth, and will not be changed, that to Me every knee will be bent, and every tongue will give honor” (Isaiah 45:21-23 BBE).
There is only one God Who is our Savior and before Whom every knee shall bow and every tongue will confess. Of Jesus Christ it is also written, using the very same words, that He is the Lord and Savior, before Whose judgment seat all will appear and give worship:
“That at the Name of Jesus every knee may bow, of those in Heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue may confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father” (Philippians 2:10-11 EMTV).
If one wants another witness that Christ is the Father, One and the Same, then one need not travel far, or twist Scriptures as Leckey, Barnes, and Adams do. We can simply take God at His Word:
“For to us a Child is born, to us a Son is given; and the government shall be on His shoulder; and His Name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace” (Isaiah 9:6 MKJV).
The Son is the Father, the mighty God. Only God is “unoriginated,” which the Scriptures also say of Christ, Who, in His office as Priest after the order of Melchisedec, is:
“…without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but having been made like the Son of God, remains a priest continually” (Hebrews 7:3 EMTV).

Lord and Savior or Role Model? He Cannot Be Both

I continue with Adams’ remarks in red:

Quote

“If Christ was absolutely God then how is He my pattern? how is his victory any encouragement to me?”

And:

Quote

“If Jesus Christ did not begin as low down as I am, then the fact that he made his way out of this horrible pit of corruption and death is no help to me…”

Adams’ notion is so antithetical to the truth the apostle Paul declares:
“No, but, O man, who are you who replies against God? Shall the thing formed say to Him Who formed it, Why have you made me this way? Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel to honor and another to dishonor?” (Romans 9:20-21 MKJV)
When has a creature in any reality ever transformed itself into the exactness of a pattern by its own will and power, particularly a pattern so much higher than itself? Where in Scripture is there any suggestion the Pattern is to be duplicated by the aspiring copy and not by the Pattern, Who is none other than the Creator of all?
“For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them” (Ephesians 2:8-10 MKJV).
I will ask you: How is Christ, God come in the flesh and winning the victory for us, not an encouragement? Is it because you still think you can do it yourself? For those looking for Him to come and help, it is the greatest of encouragements that He would come to meet us at the place of our need:
“Lord, all my desire is before You; my sorrow is not kept secret from You. My heart goes out in pain, my strength is wasting away; as for the light of my eyes, it is gone from me…In you, O Lord, is my hope: You will give me an answer, O Lord, my God…I will make clear my wrongdoing, with sorrow in my heart for my sin… Do not give me up, O Lord; O my God, be near to me. Come quickly to give me help, O Lord, my salvation” (Psalms 38:9,10,15,18,21,22 BBE).

“O God, You are my God; early will I make my search for You: my soul is dry for need of You, my flesh is wasted with desire for You, as a dry and burning land where no water is” (Psalms 63:1 BBE).
How could having a savior arrive not be an encouragement to one stranded on a desert island? Should those in a concentration camp reject the victors that liberate them? But many do not recognize their lack, or the Savior Who comes to rectify it. Quite the opposite; they
are full of themselves. It was these who rejected the Savior, their God, Who said to them:
“If you were blind, answered Jesus, you would have no sin; but as a matter of fact you boast that you see. So your sin remains!” (John 9:41 WNT)

It is never written or suggested in Scripture that Christ is our pattern Whom we should (or could) copy to attain godliness. There is no such instruction from the prophets and apostles or the Lord Himself. We are told to obey Him, but not to try to copy Him. There is a world of difference between the two. When you go to work you do not copy everything your boss does – you would get fired if you tried – but you do what is required by your job description and what your boss tells you to do. The same goes for being in an army, to which being a believer in Christ is compared (2 Timothy 2:3-4).

Jesus Christ is Lord, which is much greater and different than a role model. Those chosen by Him are led as sheep are led by a shepherd. In following Him, He transforms us (those called by Him), not because we imitate Him, but because He is Lord and knows what He is doing with us as He conforms us to His image in circumstances specially tailored to our needs. Our fate is entirely in His hands, not our own. Those following a role model are sitting in the driver’s seat, directing themselves. They have nothing to do with the Lord Jesus Christ. You can be certain that unless you hear His voice and follow Him, you are not one of His sheep.

Adams is saying that flesh and blood can inherit the Kingdom of God. In fact, he is claiming to already be there, by virtue of the “fact” (it is a lie) that he is on equal terms with Christ (in his mind, a mere man). This is what these men wish to hear, that Jesus came to encourage them in their works, God using Christ to demonstrate that unregenerate man is His equal, and up to the task. This is absolutely untrue and anti-Christ. If man in the flesh is equal to Christ then he is equal to God- a spirit and attitude that has brought untold suffering to mankind. That is why it is so important for you that you know it is a lie, and for you to know the truth, Jesus Christ, Almighty God and your Savior.

God declares that He is the Potter, and man is the clay. Does clay make itself into a replica of the one who forms it? Or does the One Who forms it make of it what He wills? That is the difference between true religion and false religion, real Christians and false ones. The real and true is made by God; the false is made by man and is not real. The former hears and recognizes the Sovereign Creator, and follows Him because he has been made His willing subject, while the latter does not hear Him, but rejects Him in order to be and to make of himself what he pleases, not knowing that God is making of him a vessel of dishonor.

When the Scriptures speak of following the example of the Lord, they are addressing those who have turned from their sins, who have the faith of Christ and hear His voice. They do not exhort men who have not turned from their sins to be like God by imitation. Only those turned to Him and baptized in His Spirit can be like Him, because Christ lives within, and they have His power to choose to walk by His Spirit and not after the flesh. That choice only exists for those who have been born again, who have come alive in Christ.

For example, Peter said to those having Christ’s faith that when they suffered persecution for walking in His righteousness, they should also follow His example by taking it patiently. Both the cause of persecution and suffering of it patiently are the work of the Spirit of Christ in a man, and are not something the man can initiate or perform in his natural carnal state. Jesus Christ is God working His salvation in man, making him in God’s image (Christ). Imitation Christianity is man working in place of God to satisfy the lusts of his flesh, whatever it is his heart is set on to have or to keep. It can be very deceitful because it comes packaged in what may appear as a beautiful and shiny veneer of man’s righteousness.

Paul told believers to follow him, even as he followed Christ. Here, too, he was specifically speaking to those in Christ who have the Nature of God as their inheritance and the obligation to walk in it. It was not a matter of having a power independent of Christ to become like Him, but of having the power and ability to follow Him because He was in them, and they were part of His Body. Paul’s words are not meant for those who have not received the Spirit of God, and who are not part of His Body.
“But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His” (Romans 8:9 EMTV).

We see people everywhere who have not received the Spirit of Christ, yet who assume, and are taught to assume, that they have all one could hope for in this life according to the Scriptures and the promises of God. Some,as Adams and Leckey, speak of Jesus Christ as the role model, though very few of these actually try to be like Him. Most speak of “accepting” Christ, after which they are “saved,” although they profess they will not have eternal life and be without sin until after they die. In this way they excuse themselves from taking up the cross and dying. They reject living righteously and without sin, here and now, in Christ. These are the present-day Pharisees who resist the coming of the Lord in the flesh through those who believe. Their understanding is in the natural realm, in which no person can know Christ or have the things of God. The flesh is at enmity with God, always.

Jesus said that no man knows Who the Son is except those to whom God reveals Him. Does that not tell you that Christ is not a natural man, but God Himself? Otherwise, being men, we could know Him as another man:
“For who knows the things of a man, except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so, no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God” (1 Corinthians 2:11 EMTV).
There are the things of man, and there are the things of God. Jesus Christ, as God in the flesh, bridges the gap between man and God. Because of Christ, there is no need to despair that there is not a way and present help for one to live in true godliness, and there is no excuse for living otherwise for those professing His Name. The Christ that many religious preach is a fictional one, made in the image of man, existing in their own minds and spirits as rendered in blasphemous pictures seen in churches and elsewhere. This “Christ” is entirely impotent to deliver the goods, but brings the wrath of God on those who worship it.

The Whole Have No Need of the Physician

Adams argues that if Jesus Christ was God Almighty:

Quote

“…it was impossible for him to sin and he knew it, therefore his trial was no trial at all, and his triumph no encouragement to fallen man, since the circumstances of the two are in no way similar; man is the almost helpless football of the evil forces around him…If Jesus Christ did not begin as low down as I am, then the fact that he made his way out of this horrible pit of corruption and death is no help to me….”

This is like arguing that a man on land, who has the equipment and know-how to save you as you are drowning in the ocean, is at an unfair advantage, and offers you no hope of
saving yourself out of your deadly predicament. Though he has been prepared, with special training and placement, and is able to save you, you reject him because you will eventually save yourself. This is not sound thinking; it is madness. Those who speak and act the way Adams does simply do not see themselves in a deadly predicament and in need of God the Savior. That is why they reject Him as such.

Men do need a Savior, and only the One Who is holy and separate from sinners can do the job. Those in sin and death need the One Who is not – Who has the keys of hell and death. Otherwise, how can He be called their Savior? And how can the Savior be anything less than Omnipotent to save men from sin and death?

If men have the power to raise themselves from the dead by emulating Jesus Christ, there is no need of a Savior and the Scriptures are in error in declaring there is. Those who preach Christ as role model are confounded by what is written in the Scriptures they claim to believe. The overall point made in the Bible is that you are in need of salvation, and are unable to save yourself. There is no such thing as pulling yourself up by your own bootstraps.

Leckey is saying he does not need to be pulled up, thank you anyway. He is already fine, equipped with his supremely inspiring role model, which happens to be just like him, another man who played the hero; now Kenneth can be the hero by bringing you the knowledge of the idol he has made, the knowledge of which will “save” you. This is what the Bible calls the work of men’s hands, which is condemned by God as something you must avoid altogether if you would see life. These are the false Christs Jesus warned against.
Here is a puzzle: How can a man claim to be so weak and powerless yet think to attain Heaven by his own efforts? God says to this man:
“For you said in your heart, I will go up to Heaven, I will make my seat higher than the stars of God; I will take my place on the mountain of the meeting-place of the gods, in the inmost parts of the north. I will go higher than the clouds; I will be like the Most High” (Isaiah 14:13-14 BBE).
If Leckey knew the grace of God and His power, he would not use being poor and in such a miserable condition as an excuse for his sinfulness. He would know that he could do all things by Christ Who strengthens those in whom He resides. He would not be taking the Lord’s Name in vain, which is what he does in his profession, but would have a positive confession with fruits that glorify God. It is not Christ posing as a role model that strengthens one, but His actual Presence. When He is with you, His blood cleanses you from all sin and His Spirit is a very present Help in time of trouble. This reality is but a fairy tale to the one who does the work himself.

The one following a role model is doing the work, with results commensurate with his ability; whereas the one worshiping Christ, Who lives within, has results commensurate with His power and ability. We (those in Christ) are not helpless footballs amongst evil forces. Far from it:
“The weapons we use in our fight are not made by humans. Rather, they are powerful weapons from God. With them we destroy people’s defenses, that is, their arguments and all their intellectual arrogance that oppose the knowledge of God. We take every thought captive so that it is obedient to Christ” (2 Corinthians 10:4-5 GW).
I did not come to Jesus Christ because I could save myself, but because I could not. Neither did I know this on my own, but God had to set me aside and reveal my condition to me. Without revelation, none of us knows anything about what we truly are. We are in the dark and see nothing. We all think we are so strong and capable of choosing right and doing good, because we have not been in the Light, where we could see our Lord and Standard, and, in comparison, our utter corruption. When we see Him, Jesus Christ, God manifest in the flesh, we abhor ourselves and repent in dust and ashes. We will not dare to think we could be like Him; indeed, we will fall down at His feet as dead men. (God has said that no man can see Him and live, and His every word is true.) After this great change come freedom, power and life – in Him – all in due time.

Paul the apostle said that he was the chief of sinners, because he had persecuted the Lord Jesus and killed His saints. Paul was turned when the Lord Jesus Christ met him on the road to Damascus, and he was knocked off his donkey and blinded. He called Jesus “Lord” at that same time, though he did not know His Name. Paul did not see Christ by physical sight or by his natural senses, and certainly did not view Him as his role model. The gift of faith did not come by imitation, so Paul did not proceed in this manner. He did not say,
“Lord, I now see that you are a human being after which I can model myself, and this inspires me so!” On the contrary, he taught men:

“Therefore we know no one after the flesh from now on. Even though we have known Messiah after the flesh, yet now we know Him so no more. Therefore if anyone is in Messiah, he is a new creation. The old things have passed away. Behold, all things have become new” (2 Corinthians 5:16-17 HNV).
After Paul confessed Jesus as Lord, the Lord commanded a man named Ananias to lay hands on him in order for his sight to be restored and to receive God’s Spirit. Ananias did not talk about following Jesus as a role model. You can make what you like of a role model, picking and choosing and doing as you will with it, because you are in charge; with the saints, however, Christ is there in Person, speaking and leading them as He wills! He was not remote or removed from Paul and Ananias, an image they reconstructed or conjured up, but was present, directing them and making happen what needed to happen. Only God can command like that, otherwise His Name and Title are meaningless lies. Adams and Leckey are preaching another Christ, not the One recorded in Scripture, Who is shown to be God and is no liar. In that they say their Christ is not the Almighty they speak truly. Their god is the lie, one of works (man’s doing), and not of grace (God’s doing).

Adams says:

Quote

“…what I want to know most, as a member of the fallen race is, not how near Christ comes to God, but how near he comes to man. I want to know, of course, if he can reach up to God, but I want to know still more if he can reach down to me; in short, I want to know if he was man, “a brother born for adversity,” a child born as well as a Son given….”

No one is arguing that Jesus Christ was not fully human. He was a flesh and blood man, like every other person that has entered the world. How does the fact that He is also God prevent Him from reaching you? Coming as a man is precisely how He serves as the Mediator of all men, being resurrected from the dead and positioned “at the right hand of God” to fulfill this commission to intercede on our behalf. He is fully aware of our condition, fully able to help us, and fully desirous to do so:
“Therefore having a great High Priest Who has passed through the Heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast the confession. For we do not have a High Priest Who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but having been tempted in all respects in quite the same way as we are, yet without sin. Therefore let us come boldly to the throne of grace, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need” (Hebrews 4:14-16 EMTV).….
Paul Cohen

“Jesus Christ, Almighty God” by Victor Hafichuk and Paul Cohen http://www.thepathoftruth.com/teachin….god.htm

[Baker]

to answer all of that is really to much….good luck, i will not……I know who Jesus is and who Almighty God is. It is not Jesus………Irene

[SimplyForgiven]

Jesus Christ reaches down, not to those alive to themselves and sin, but to those who have turned from their sins and have come by the cross to His throne of grace. God saves us who believe through Jesus Christ, Who knows our weaknesses but has overcome them and is seated on the throne of God. For now, those who do not believe, but choose to identify with the fallen Adam rather the risen One, must find out the hard way that there is no salvation to be found in the earthly man. We refute this teaching because we know Christ, God our Savior, Who has lifted us out of the realm of unbelief and sin to sit with Him on His throne in Heaven.

We learned Who Christ is just as did the blind man to whom Jesus gave sight. At first we did not know Who He was, but only that He opened our eyes to see God, and we believed on Him by the miracle of faith He performed in us. He told us the truth, and we believed and worshiped Him:
“Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and having found him, He said to him, ‘Do you believe in the Son of God?’ He answered and said, ‘And who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?’ And Jesus said to him, ‘You have both seen Him and it is He Who is speaking with you.’ Then he said, ‘Lord, I believe!’ And he worshipped Him” (John 9:35-38 EMTV).

Here is the testimony of another such witness who did not find Christ too remote from his suffering, and near enough in adversity, though Christ was God in the flesh:
“Two others, who were criminals, were led away to be executed with Him. When they came to the place called The Skull, they crucified Him. The criminals were also crucified, one on His right and the other on His left…. One of the criminals hanging there insulted Jesus by saying, ‘So you’re really the Messiah, are you? Well, save yourself and us!’ But the other criminal scolded him: “Don’t you fear God at all? Can’t you see that you’re condemned in the same way that He is? Our punishment is fair. We’re getting what we deserve. But this man hasn’t done anything wrong.” Then he said, ‘Jesus, remember me when You enter Your Kingdom.’ Jesus said to him, ‘I can guarantee this truth: Today you will be with Me in paradise’” (Luke 23:32-33, 39-43).

Leckey and Adams represent a third and the worst kind of thief. Rather than outright rail on the Lord, they say, “Look, the Son of God is being crucified, and so am I! Seeing He is sinful flesh, and I am the same, I can claim His inheritance, and since all power is given to Him, I will have the same.”
By putting their carnal, sinful selves in Christ’s place, in Heaven, they are essentially trying to bring Him down to their level, rather than dying to themselves and being raised to life by and in Him. Adams does not really want to know if Christ can reach down to him and save him; he only wants to know if he can attain to Christ’s position without paying the price. That is impossible:
“In the same way, none of you can be My disciples unless you give up everything” (Luke 14:33 GW).

The Weakness of God Stronger than Men

A.P. Adams continues:

Quote

“Now in order to be like his brethren in all things he began his earth-life lower down than Adam; the latter was created a son of God, an adult human being, with a sinless nature. Christ began his life a helpless babe, Son of fallen man as well as Son of God, with a sinful nature.”

If Adam had a sinless nature, how did he sin?
“Everyone who has been born of God does not commit sin, because His seed remains in him, and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God” (1 John 3:9 MKJV).

If Christ had a sinful nature, how did He not sin?
“For we do not have a High Priest Who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but having been tempted in all respects in quite the same way as we are, yet without sin” (Hebrews 4:15 EMTV).
Leckey and Adams have things backwards. They worship the first Adam while Christ, the Last Adam, is the One worthy of worship because He is God come in the flesh. Christ did not sin because God does not have a sinful nature. That is why those born of the Last Adam do not sin; they inherit His nature. No human being has ever overcome the first Adam’s nature. Only Christ, the sinless Son of God has, and does the same in those who believe. That is why it is written that if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is alive because of righteousness (Romans 8:10). You cannot overcome sin without God in you, which is Christ.

So, on the one hand, we have the Lord Jesus Christ, Who cannot sin because He does not have a sinful nature; on the other hand, we have these two men, along with so many others, who, living in the sinful nature of the first Adam, think to have found a way to remain in it without having to take responsibility for the consequences of doing so. They have taken on the favorable status of Christ before God as if it is their natural inheritance, without paying the price of admission – their lives. They come up another way. The consequences of sin and living in the fallen man must and will continue to accrue to them, until they are turned from being their own gods. ………………………………..

Paul Cohen

“Jesus Christ, Almighty God” by Victor Hafichuk and Paul Cohen http://www.thepathoftruth.com/teachin….god.htm

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (Baker @ Dec. 08 2010,03:49)

to answer all of that is really to much….good luck, i will not……I know who Jesus is and who Almighty God is.  It is not Jesus………Irene

YA… I figured…..
You dont have to answer all of it.
ITs all Divided into several different points.
The point is to READ it

For you to say that without reading the article is a bit…. ignorant……..

[Baker]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Dec. 08 2010,09:53)

Quote (Baker @ Dec. 08 2010,03:49) to answer all of that is really to much….good luck, i will not……I know who Jesus is and who Almighty God is.  It is not Jesus………Irene YA… I figured….. You dont have to answer all of it. ITs all Divided into several different points. The point is to READ it For you to say that without reading the article is a bit…. ignorant……..

So what makes you think i did not read some of it.  but stopped because it is to long and not organized for me to read it….. double space would help…….Irene

[Baker]

Also I don't care what any men will say…..Irene

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (Baker @ Dec. 08 2010,04:02)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Dec. 08 2010,09:53) Quote (Baker @ Dec. 08 2010,03:49) to answer all of that is really to much….good luck, i will not……I know who Jesus is and who Almighty God is.  It is not Jesus………Irene YA… I figured….. You dont have to answer all of it. ITs all Divided into several different points. The point is to READ it For you to say that without reading the article is a bit…. ignorant…….. So what makes you think i did not read some of it.  but stopped because it is to long and not organized for me to read it….. double space would help…….Irene

I thought it would make it Longer,
The LINK as i said before is RIGHT there, for you to go to their website directly, for they formatted it alot better than i did.

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (Baker @ Dec. 08 2010,04:03)

Also I don't care what any men will say…..Irene

So you only listen to Women?
Or To God?

or to what Exactly? becuase its ok to listen, and consider, but we have “spiritual ears” to discern.

You shouldnt care about what the carnal man will say.
but are they carnal?

am i carnal?
are you carnal?

he who has ears, let him hear

[Baker]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Dec. 08 2010,10:05)

Quote (Baker @ Dec. 08 2010,04:03) Also I don't care what any men will say…..Irene So you only listen to Women? Or To God? or to what Exactly? becuase its ok to listen, and consider, but we have “spiritual ears” to discern. You shouldnt care about what the carnal man will say. but are they carnal? am i carnal? are you carnal? he who has ears, let him hear

You are grasping for straws. be for real. The article is written not by a Woman, but men….are we carnal???.Irene

[terraricca]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Dec. 08 2010,16:53)

Quote (Baker @ Dec. 08 2010,03:49) to answer all of that is really to much….good luck, i will not……I know who Jesus is and who Almighty God is.  It is not Jesus………Irene YA… I figured….. You dont have to answer all of it. ITs all Divided into several different points. The point is to READ it For you to say that without reading the article is a bit…. ignorant……..

SF

ok ,i read just about all of it ,and i find out that there is nothing to learn from what you say or post;

scriptures are well written to make the true Christians have there faith in God strengthened and so focus on the price,not the mind of men.

it looks you have gone to men for your info on God??

Pierre

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (Baker @ Dec. 08 2010,04:10)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Dec. 08 2010,10:05) Quote (Baker @ Dec. 08 2010,04:03) Also I don't care what any men will say…..Irene So you only listen to Women? Or To God? or to what Exactly? becuase its ok to listen, and consider, but we have “spiritual ears” to discern. You shouldnt care about what the carnal man will say. but are they carnal? am i carnal? are you carnal? he who has ears, let him hear You are grasping for straws.  be for real.  The article is written not by a Woman, but men….are we carnal???.Irene

It was more sarcasm irene…

And what makes someone carnal?
what makes somone spiritual?

there is a difference

you assunme all men are carnal, isnt that against the scritpures?

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 08 2010,04:29)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Dec. 08 2010,16:53) Quote (Baker @ Dec. 08 2010,03:49) to answer all of that is really to much….good luck, i will not……I know who Jesus is and who Almighty God is.  It is not Jesus………Irene YA… I figured….. You dont have to answer all of it. ITs all Divided into several different points. The point is to READ it For you to say that without reading the article is a bit…. ignorant…….. SF ok ,i read just about all of it ,and i find out that there is nothing to learn from what you say or post; scriptures are well written to make the true Christians have there faith in God strengthened and so focus on the price,not the mind of men. it looks you have gone to men for your info on God?? Pierre

Oh Wow terrarica,

actually im not affiliated with them.
Mike wanted scriptures about God and what not,
and i believe they make a good case.

If i were to provide a article talking abotu how Jesus is God, isnt that the same INFO….?

what makes me laugh is the fact is that you havent refuted anything..

Is this all?

[Ed J]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Dec. 08 2010,10:49)

what makes me laugh is the fact is that you havent refuted anything..

Hi SF,

You(SF) present ‘a false truth’ logic here! Let me explain
for you to grasp the ‘error’ that you present as truth…

Jesus did not refute the accusations of guilt at his trial (before his crucifixion),
now according to the logic you are presenting that makes him guilty; No?
Can you not see the faulty logic you present as truth?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 08 2010,06:17)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Dec. 08 2010,10:49) what makes me laugh is the fact is that you havent refuted anything.. Hi SF, You(SF) present ‘a false truth’ logic here! Let me explain for you to grasp the ‘error’ that you present as truth… Jesus did not refute the accusations of guilt at his trial (before his crucifixion), now according to the logic you are presenting that makes him guilty; No? Can you not see the faulty logic you present as truth? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Actually the faulty logic is to make a judmental cliam without any supportive evidence.

Every time Jesus made a cliam, his works and ethics proved him to be in the Right,
by the fact that he did Miracles, meant he came from God.

Here is the Faulty logic, is to make a judemental, preconceived, stubborn, comment, without any proof.

In other words its a debate fallacy.

Jesus didnt have to answer back, his works were enough to support all his claims.

Terrarica/Pierre says made a comment that im looking for info from men, that i rely on men, and also said there is nothing to learn from the article that i posted.

Where is the supporting evidence for those cliams thats he has made?

you cant judge, nor make cliams without evidence,

arnt you guilty of the same?
arnt you trying to prove God with “numbers”?

[Ed J]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Dec. 08 2010,13:07)

Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 08 2010,06:17) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Dec. 08 2010,10:49) what makes me laugh is the fact is that you havent refuted anything.. Hi SF, You(SF) present ‘a false truth’ logic here! Let me explain for you to grasp the ‘error’ that you present as truth… Jesus did not refute the accusations of guilt at his trial (before his crucifixion), now according to the logic you are presenting that makes him guilty; No? Can you not see the faulty logic you present as truth? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Actually the faulty logic is to make a judmental cliam without any supportive evidence. Every time Jesus made a cliam, his works and ethics proved him to be in the Right, by the fact that he did Miracles, meant he came from God. Here is the Faulty logic, is to make a judemental, preconceived, stubborn, comment, without any proof. In other words its a debate fallacy. Jesus didnt have to answer back, his works were enough to support all his claims. Terrarica/Pierre says made a comment that im looking for info from men, that i rely on men, and also said there is nothing to learn from the article that i posted. Where is the supporting evidence for those cliams thats he has made? you cant judge, nor make cliams without evidence, arnt you guilty of the same? arnt you trying to prove God with “numbers”?

Hi SF,

I never said whether the information was correct or no.

I'm glad you were able to bring this “Full Circle”!
You also dismiss the evidence that I produce,
without any evidence of it being faulty; no?
So you clearly want to be right on both
sides of the same issue; correct, No?

Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
117=יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 08 2010,07:23)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Dec. 08 2010,13:07) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 08 2010,06:17) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Dec. 08 2010,10:49) what makes me laugh is the fact is that you havent refuted anything.. Hi SF, You(SF) present ‘a false truth’ logic here! Let me explain for you to grasp the ‘error’ that you present as truth… Jesus did not refute the accusations of guilt at his trial (before his crucifixion), now according to the logic you are presenting that makes him guilty; No? Can you not see the faulty logic you present as truth? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Actually the faulty logic is to make a judmental cliam without any supportive evidence. Every time Jesus made a cliam, his works and ethics proved him to be in the Right, by the fact that he did Miracles, meant he came from God. Here is the Faulty logic, is to make a judemental, preconceived, stubborn, comment, without any proof. In other words its a debate fallacy. Jesus didnt have to answer back, his works were enough to support all his claims. Terrarica/Pierre says made a comment that im looking for info from men, that i rely on men, and also said there is nothing to learn from the article that i posted. Where is the supporting evidence for those cliams thats he has made? you cant judge, nor make cliams without evidence, arnt you guilty of the same? arnt you trying to prove God with “numbers”? Hi SF, I never said whether the information was correct or no. I'm glad you were able to bring this “Full Circle”! You also dismiss the evidence that I produce, without any evidence of it being faulty; no? So you clearly want to be right on both sides of the same issue; correct, No? Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17) 117=יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Ed J,
I have to admit, sometimes you just jump into things, and i have no idea what on earth you are talking about.

What Evidence did I dismiss?
What do i wnat to be right about?

I didnt write this article, I simply asked for a honest response, not ad hominens nor rediculous comments about how this is wrong, without any proof of “WHY” they cliam its wrong.

but for real, for real,
what are you talking about?

[shimmer]

Hi SF.

Can you do a brief summary of what they believe ? I think this is what my Mother believes too. She say's we have a body, mind and spirit and that God does too. So she say's Jesus is the body of God. God is the mind and then there's the Holy Spirit, Just like we have three parts to us, a Trinity of some type. Something like that anyway.

Is this what they believe ?

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 08 2010,11:24)

Hi SF. Can you do a brief summary of what they believe ? I think this is what my Mother believes too. She say's we have a body, mind and spirit and that God does too. So she say's Jesus is the body of God. God is the mind and then there's the Holy Spirit, Just like we have three parts to us, a Trinity of some type. Something like that anyway. Is this what they believe ?

Isnt it better to just read the Article?
its very clear what they believe on there.

and what i Highlighted in Blue, are things that i thought everyone should take a closer look at.

[terraricca]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Dec. 08 2010,17:49)

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 08 2010,04:29) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Dec. 08 2010,16:53) Quote (Baker @ Dec. 08 2010,03:49) to answer all of that is really to much….good luck, i will not……I know who Jesus is and who Almighty God is.  It is not Jesus………Irene YA… I figured….. You dont have to answer all of it. ITs all Divided into several different points. The point is to READ it For you to say that without reading the article is a bit…. ignorant…….. SF ok ,i read just about all of it ,and i find out that there is nothing to learn from what you say or post; scriptures are well written to make the true Christians have there faith in God strengthened and so focus on the price,not the mind of men. it looks you have gone to men for your info on God?? Pierre Oh Wow terrarica, actually im not affiliated with them. Mike wanted scriptures about God and what not, and i believe they make a good case. If i were to provide a article talking abotu how Jesus is God, isnt that the same INFO….? what makes me laugh is the fact is that you havent refuted anything.. Is this all?

SF

if you can not bring forward scriptures that says that Christ is God why you think we would listen to a men views ,?

so far you have not being useful to me in anything you have quoted.

you like to argue most of the time.is that what your christian views are and your understanding of Gods word???

Pierre

[Ed J]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Dec. 08 2010,15:30)

Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 08 2010,07:23) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Dec. 08 2010,13:07) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 08 2010,06:17) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Dec. 08 2010,10:49) what makes me laugh is the fact is that you havent refuted anything.. Hi SF, You(SF) present ‘a false truth’ logic here! Let me explain for you to grasp the ‘error’ that you present as truth… Jesus did not refute the accusations of guilt at his trial (before his crucifixion), now according to the logic you are presenting that makes him guilty; No? Can you not see the faulty logic you present as truth? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Actually the faulty logic is to make a judmental cliam without any supportive evidence. Every time Jesus made a cliam, his works and ethics proved him to be in the Right, by the fact that he did Miracles, meant he came from God. Here is the Faulty logic, is to make a judemental, preconceived, stubborn, comment, without any proof. In other words its a debate fallacy. Jesus didnt have to answer back, his works were enough to support all his claims. Terrarica/Pierre says made a comment that im looking for info from men, that i rely on men, and also said there is nothing to learn from the article that i posted. Where is the supporting evidence for those cliams thats he has made? you cant judge, nor make cliams without evidence, arnt you guilty of the same? arnt you trying to prove God with “numbers”? Hi SF, I never said whether the information was correct or no. I'm glad you were able to bring this “Full Circle”! You also dismiss the evidence that I produce, without any evidence of it being faulty; no? So you clearly want to be right on both sides of the same issue; correct, No? Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17) 117=יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Ed J, I have to admit, sometimes you just jump into things, and i have no idea what on earth you are talking about. What Evidence did I dismiss? What do i wnat to be right about? I didnt write this article, I simply asked for a honest response, not ad hominens nor rediculous comments about how this is wrong, without any proof of “WHY” they cliam its wrong. but for real, for real, what are you talking about?

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Aug. 02 2010,19:05)

I have effectivly proven that actually almost no one wants to follow a direct positive format that actually ends nonsense debates,  no one actually wants to have a place to be cornered, nor proven wrong.

Hi SF,

Now that you are surrounded by “A circle of Truth”,
I will explain the conundrum that you find yourself in.

            ‘a yes/no’
(your buddies present ‘YES/NO’s too!)
You want both sides of the same issue…
You assert that information un-refuted is “Truth”. (Yes)
I presented information Here that “REMAINS” un-refuted. (No)

Do you not see the dichotomy of what you call “Truth” is nothing but a ‘false truth’!
In the case of Paul and Victor you declare their information presented as ‘truth’,
yet ‘YOU’ (SF) refuse this standard in the case of “Bible Truth” I present!

Witnessing to a worldwide audience in behalf of YHVH!
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)

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