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Quote (942767 @ Feb. 16 2008,16:35) Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 16 2008,15:49) Here's the scenario: God made the animals, God made Adam and Eve. One of God's animals (as far as Eve knew) said the fruit was fine. Eve did not know evil, so it was easy for her to believe in the words spoken by a creature that God created. Then, Adam shares and God punishes them for believing one of God's creatures. There is some seriously faulty logic in this.
No KJ:God told them the consequences of eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, and so, they ate and suffered the consequence.
How did they know the consequences if they had never experienced death? If you tell a 2 year old they will die, do they know what death is? Since there was no death before Adam and Eve, then how could they understand?Quote (942767 @ Feb. 16 2008,16:51) Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 17 2008,09:15) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 16 2008,16:05) Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 17 2008,08:37) Is God the bible Nick? You seem to think so. God is spirit, I did not know He was written on paper. If so, your view of God is that He certainly corrupt as there asre many corrupt passages in the bible.
Hi KJ,
Are you saying that what you quote here you do so only to show errors?Or are you conflicting your ideas with the plan of God?
How can anyone be certain it was in God's plan to only be God of one people and then later a different set of people? Seems to be a God who is indeed a respecter of persons.
Hi KJ:God through His people (Abraham's seed) calls mankind into a relationship with Him.
Why would a God who made all only choose one set of people? Why do others make this same claim? Who then is right?
Quote Quote Gen 21:12
And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called.The Nation of Israel are those who were striving to obey God in the OT under the Law, and those who are reconciled to God through gospel. The gospel is to be preached to every creature, and so, God is calling people who desire to be in a relationship with Him through the promised child the seed of Isaac. The blood of Jesus washed away all of the sins of those who were striving to obey God under the law and the sins of all of those who have come to Him with a repentant heart through Jesus in the NT.
To truly believe that a God who created the universe only chose one tribe of people is a selfish thought.Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 17 2008,10:40) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 16 2008,16:51) Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 17 2008,09:15) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 16 2008,16:05) Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 17 2008,08:37) Is God the bible Nick? You seem to think so. God is spirit, I did not know He was written on paper. If so, your view of God is that He certainly corrupt as there asre many corrupt passages in the bible.
Hi KJ,
Are you saying that what you quote here you do so only to show errors?Or are you conflicting your ideas with the plan of God?
How can anyone be certain it was in God's plan to only be God of one people and then later a different set of people? Seems to be a God who is indeed a respecter of persons.
Hi KJ:God through His people (Abraham's seed) calls mankind into a relationship with Him.
Why would a God who made all only choose one set of people? Why do others make this same claim? Who then is right?
Quote Quote Gen 21:12
And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called.The Nation of Israel are those who were striving to obey God in the OT under the Law, and those who are reconciled to God through gospel. The gospel is to be preached to every creature, and so, God is calling people who desire to be in a relationship with Him through the promised child the seed of Isaac. The blood of Jesus washed away all of the sins of those who were striving to obey God under the law and the sins of all of those who have come to Him with a repentant heart through Jesus in the NT.
To truly believe that a God who created the universe only chose one tribe of people is a selfish thought.
Hi KJ;There is only one God, and so why would he speak something to one people and something else to another set of people. Either we are the people of God or we are not.
Jesus said:
Quote John 14:4
And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
14:5
Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way *, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.Every other religion teaches good works which is fine, but salvation from the consequence of sin through Our Lord Jesus is something that God has done for humanity not something that mankind has earned by good works.
Again, if there is only one God, why would He teach one set of people one thing and others another. Either His Word is His Word or it is not.
God Bless
Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 17 2008,10:37) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 16 2008,16:35) Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 16 2008,15:49) Here's the scenario: God made the animals, God made Adam and Eve. One of God's animals (as far as Eve knew) said the fruit was fine. Eve did not know evil, so it was easy for her to believe in the words spoken by a creature that God created. Then, Adam shares and God punishes them for believing one of God's creatures. There is some seriously faulty logic in this.
No KJ:God told them the consequences of eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, and so, they ate and suffered the consequence.
How did they know the consequences if they had never experienced death? If you tell a 2 year old they will die, do they know what death is? Since there was no death before Adam and Eve, then how could they understand?
Hi Kj:Quote Gen. 2:16
And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
2:17
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.Whether or not they knew what it meant to die, I cannot be sure. The word “die” means to perish. But either way, they disobeyed what God told them not to do.
They more than likely did know what it meant to die because this is what the serpent said to Eve:
Quote Genesis 3
3:1
Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
3:2
And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3:3
But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
3:4
And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
3:5
For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.But also, after they ate they knew that they were naked and tried to hide from God because of their guilt, and so they knew that they had done wrong by disobeying Him.
Quote Gen 3:7
And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
3:8
And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.
3:9
And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
3:10
And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.
3:11
And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat ?God gave them an opportunity to repent.
I don't see an opportunity to repent. How would they know what repentance was? It was their first time. All God asked was what they did, and they told what they did.
When my kids disobey me, I don't send them out of the house! I don't impose pain and back-breaking work upon them.
For those who believe in the Trinity, I see a huge difference between the personality of the God of the OT and the so-called Trinity God of the NT.
Hi KJ:
Adam and Eve knew what God meant by the meaning of the word “die” which means to perish.
Also, you made a comment about the pigs into whom Jesus sent the evil spirits(I could not find the comment). Does not God own every thing in the universe?
Quote (942767 @ Feb. 16 2008,18:20) Hi KJ; There is only one God, and so why would he speak something to one people and something else to another set of people. Either we are the people of God or we are not.
You say that because you truly believe that only the bible is God's word. By doing this, you depend on what other humans wrote to base your beliefs. Why does this have any more validity than any other religious text?In the end, all religious texts are certain men (or women) writing about their view of God. God didn't write any of it.
Quote Jesus said: Quote John 14:4
And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
14:5
Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way *, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.Every other religion teaches good works which is fine, but salvation from the consequence of sin through Our Lord Jesus is something that God has done for humanity not something that mankind has earned by good works.
If this is true, and the only truth, why would God wait so many thousands of years to make a way? That sounds awfully cruel to the millions of humans who have preceded Jesus, and certainly those who were not of the Jewish heritage.Quote Again, if there is only one God, why would He teach one set of people one thing and others another. Either His Word is His Word or it is not. God Bless
You have your own answer if you look. It was not simply God teaching a certain way, but a certain people saying this. Almost every religion has this opinion of its beliefs.Quote (942767 @ Feb. 16 2008,18:58) Hi KJ: Adam and Eve knew what God meant by the meaning of the word “die” which means to perish.
Also, you made a comment about the pigs into whom Jesus sent the evil spirits(I could not find the comment). Does not God own every thing in the universe?
So if God tells you to go kill someone's livestock, will you do so because God owns it all?Quote (942767 @ Feb. 16 2008,18:58) Hi KJ: Adam and Eve knew what God meant by the meaning of the word “die” which means to perish.
Also, you made a comment about the pigs into whom Jesus sent the evil spirits(I could not find the comment). Does not God own every thing in the universe?
And how would they know what “perish” was if they personally never experienced it?Quote (Not3in1 @ Feb. 16 2008,18:54) When my kids disobey me, I don't send them out of the house! I don't impose pain and back-breaking work upon them. For those who believe in the Trinity, I see a huge difference between the personality of the God of the OT and the so-called Trinity God of the NT.
That's not due to a different God, but the views of God written by a certain people.Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 17 2008,11:58) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 16 2008,18:20) Hi KJ; There is only one God, and so why would he speak something to one people and something else to another set of people. Either we are the people of God or we are not.
You say that because you truly believe that only the bible is God's word. By doing this, you depend on what other humans wrote to base your beliefs. Why does this have any more validity than any other religious text?In the end, all religious texts are certain men (or women) writing about their view of God. God didn't write any of it.
Quote Jesus said: Quote John 14:4
And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
14:5
Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way *, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.Every other religion teaches good works which is fine, but salvation from the consequence of sin through Our Lord Jesus is something that God has done for humanity not something that mankind has earned by good works.
If this is true, and the only truth, why would God wait so many thousands of years to make a way? That sounds awfully cruel to the millions of humans who have preceded Jesus, and certainly those who were not of the Jewish heritage.Quote Again, if there is only one God, why would He teach one set of people one thing and others another. Either His Word is His Word or it is not. God Bless
You have your own answer if you look. It was not simply God teaching a certain way, but a certain people saying this. Almost every religion has this opinion of its beliefs.
Hi KJ:God confirms his Word, and there have been many whose lives have been changed through faith in His Word including mine in February 1980 when I received the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
Quote 2 Peter1:16
For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
1:17
For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
1:18
And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
1:19
We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
1:20
Knowing this first, that no * * prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
1:21
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.There have been man prophecies of the bible that have been fulfilled that testify that this is indeed the Word of God.
God has forseen all and has shown us things to come by His Word. As the above scripture indicates, God spoke through the prophets. It was not the prophets speaking their own words.Well, I have the Spirit of God dwelling within me that testifies that God's Word regarding His Son and His Christ, Jesus is true, and I have had many experiences also which leave no doubt that this is the truth. Through my Lord, Jesus, I have a personal relationship with God who answers my prayers when I pray in the name of Jesus.
Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 17 2008,12:00) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 16 2008,18:58) Hi KJ: Adam and Eve knew what God meant by the meaning of the word “die” which means to perish.
Also, you made a comment about the pigs into whom Jesus sent the evil spirits(I could not find the comment). Does not God own every thing in the universe?
And how would they know what “perish” was if they personally never experienced it?
KJ:Do you know what it means although you have never experienced it?
Quote (942767 @ Feb. 16 2008,19:11) Hi KJ: God confirms his Word, and there have been many whose lives have been changed through faith in His Word including mine in February 1980 when I received the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
If you look into almost any religion, many of its adherents can parrot this same statement. They too can say God (by whatever name they call Him) has changed their life. Can you take that away from them anymore than they can from you?Quote Quote 2 Peter1:16
For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
1:17
For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
1:18
And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
1:19
We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
1:20
Knowing this first, that no * * prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
1:21
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.There have been man prophecies of the bible that have been fulfilled that testify that this is indeed the Word of God.
You make this statement but then do not go on to provide the supposed fulfillments.Quote God has forseen all and has shown us things to come by His Word. As the above scripture indicates, God spoke through the prophets. It was not the prophets speaking their own words. Well, I have the Spirit of God dwelling within me that testifies that God's Word regarding His Son and His Christ, Jesus is true, and I have had many experiences also which leave no doubt that this is the truth. Through my Lord, Jesus, I have a personal relationship with God who answers my prayers when I pray in the name of Jesus.
What would you say to the Muslim who says the same thing of Mohammed and Allah? Or Joseph Smith? Or any other “prophet”? Could you supply them with proof that your personal experiences are any more real or valid than theirs?Quote (942767 @ Feb. 16 2008,19:18) Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 17 2008,12:00) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 16 2008,18:58) Hi KJ: Adam and Eve knew what God meant by the meaning of the word “die” which means to perish.
Also, you made a comment about the pigs into whom Jesus sent the evil spirits(I could not find the comment). Does not God own every thing in the universe?
And how would they know what “perish” was if they personally never experienced it?
KJ:Do you know what it means although you have never experienced it?
No but I've seen death. Show me where death was experienced by Adam and Eve so we can know they were truly aware what it meant.Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 17 2008,12:19) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 16 2008,19:11) Hi KJ: God confirms his Word, and there have been many whose lives have been changed through faith in His Word including mine in February 1980 when I received the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
If you look into almost any religion, many of its adherents can parrot this same statement. They too can say God (by whatever name they call Him) has changed their life. Can you take that away from them anymore than they can from you?Quote Quote 2 Peter1:16
For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
1:17
For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
1:18
And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
1:19
We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
1:20
Knowing this first, that no * * prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
1:21
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.There have been man prophecies of the bible that have been fulfilled that testify that this is indeed the Word of God.
You make this statement but then do not go on to provide the supposed fulfillments.Quote God has forseen all and has shown us things to come by His Word. As the above scripture indicates, God spoke through the prophets. It was not the prophets speaking their own words. Well, I have the Spirit of God dwelling within me that testifies that God's Word regarding His Son and His Christ, Jesus is true, and I have had many experiences also which leave no doubt that this is the truth. Through my Lord, Jesus, I have a personal relationship with God who answers my prayers when I pray in the name of Jesus.
What would you say to the Muslim who says the same thing of Mohammed and Allah? Or Joseph Smith? Or any other “prophet”? Could you supply them with proof that your personal experiences are any more real or valid than theirs?
Hi KJ:I don't have to prove anything to any body. God will confirm His Word if what I am teaching is the truth. People should see the love God manifest through my life if what I am teaching is the truth.
Quote (942767 @ Feb. 16 2008,19:25) Hi KJ: I don't have to prove anything to any body. God will confirm His Word if what I am teaching is the truth. People should see the love God manifest through my life if what I am teaching is the truth.
Exactly. But in the same vein, you should appreciate and respect those who have a different religion than you because to them, that is the truth. Truth in religious faith is perhaps the most subjective truth of all.Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 17 2008,12:21) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 16 2008,19:18) Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 17 2008,12:00) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 16 2008,18:58) Hi KJ: Adam and Eve knew what God meant by the meaning of the word “die” which means to perish.
Also, you made a comment about the pigs into whom Jesus sent the evil spirits(I could not find the comment). Does not God own every thing in the universe?
And how would they know what “perish” was if they personally never experienced it?
KJ:Do you know what it means although you have never experienced it?
No but I've seen death. Show me where death was experienced by Adam and Eve so we can know they were truly aware what it meant.
Hi KJ:The word “perish” means that they would cease to exist. Whether or not they had experienced it, that is pretty clear.
Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 17 2008,12:29) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 16 2008,19:25) Hi KJ: I don't have to prove anything to any body. God will confirm His Word if what I am teaching is the truth. People should see the love God manifest through my life if what I am teaching is the truth.
Exactly. But in the same vein, you should appreciate and respect those who have a different religion than you because to them, that is the truth. Truth in religious faith is perhaps the most subjective truth of all.
Hi KJ:I respect every one, but it is my commision from my Lord to go into all of the world and share the gospel with whomever will hear. I preach what I know to be the truth not just what I believe to be the truth.
If someone does not choose to hear or if they hear and choose not to believe, I respect their decision.
One can appreciate people without giving any heed to a different religion that does not stand to our own; example: Islam.
I would like to add that we should treat all people within our faith with equality…
Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
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