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Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 16 2008,15:49) Here's the scenario: God made the animals, God made Adam and Eve. One of God's animals (as far as Eve knew) said the fruit was fine. Eve did not know evil, so it was easy for her to believe in the words spoken by a creature that God created. Then, Adam shares and God punishes them for believing one of God's creatures. There is some seriously faulty logic in this.
Or non-comprehension KJ.She had 2 pieces of conflicting information. One from God and one from a created being. She made her choice.
Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 16 2008,16:17) Nick, You are right. Thinking people are seemingly unwelcome here.
Hi KJ,
Thoughtful people do not dare to judge God.Hi KJ,
You say
“There is some seriously faulty logic in this.”
Believe it or not
God is not ruled by logic.Quote (t8 @ Feb. 16 2008,09:06) Quote (Not3in1 @ Feb. 15 2008,20:08) Does the OT say the promised Messiah will be “without sin”? The NT says that Jesus was made just like his brothers in every way. Did they really mean he was made like his brothers in every way AND he was made not like us at all?
Adam wasn't made with sin. He was sinless.He was made with free will to sin or not.
Yeshua is the second Adam. The first Adam sinned and failed humanity because he sinned.
Now life is in Yeshua, not Adam.
All in Adam will die, all in Yeshua will live.
Sin leads to death and Yeshua represents the God of the living.
Thanks, t8.Adam wasn't made with sin. But the NT doesn't say Jesus was made like Adam in every way…..it says Jesus was made like his brother's in every way.
His brother's were born sinful.
Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 16 2008,15:59) (4) If God created all and said it was good, how can the not-so-good serpent have come about?
I guess that God must have given the serpent “free will”
as well as humans.
Tim
“Touch it and you will die!”
“You will not surely die.”
“you will live forever”
The first statement was from God. The other two were from
the serpent and Jesus respectively. Which ones more closely agree?Tim
Hi Tim4,
John 6:51
I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”John 6:58
This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your forefathers ate manna and died, but he who feeds on this bread will live forever.”1 John 2:17
The world and its desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives forever.Context, context, context.
God refused permission to Adam to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
Satan lied and opposed God saying that rebellion and eating of the fruit of that tree would not bring death to men.
They obeyed another god and their eyes were opened and they gained a knowledge of perfect wisdom without the ability to satisfy it.
Instead becoming scrupulous fools and liars to themselves and others they were incompetant and inadequate.
Christ brought forgiveness and the permission to partake of the fruit of the tree of life again.
That life is of the Spirit of God in him and in his eternal words.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 16 2008,00:29) Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 16 2008,16:17) Nick, You are right. Thinking people are seemingly unwelcome here.
Hi KJ,
Thoughtful people do not dare to judge God.
How is pointing out biblical issues judging God?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 16 2008,11:46) Hi Tim4,
John 6:51
I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”John 6:58
This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your forefathers ate manna and died, but he who feeds on this bread will live forever.”1 John 2:17
The world and its desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives forever.Context, context, context.
God refused permission to Adam to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
Satan lied and opposed God saying that rebellion and eating of the fruit of that tree would not bring death to men.
They obeyed another god and their eyes were opened and they gained a knowledge of perfect wisdom without the ability to satisfy it.
Instead becoming scrupulous fools and liars to themselves and others they were incompetant and inadequate.
Christ brought forgiveness and the permission to partake of the fruit of the tree of life again.
That life is of the Spirit of God in him and in his eternal words.
There is no connection with Satan and the serpent in the garden. If that had been the case, why did God choose to punish the serpent if was just a vessel that Satan used? Not the snake's fault.Is God the bible Nick? You seem to think so. God is spirit, I did not know He was written on paper. If so, your view of God is that He certainly corrupt as there asre many corrupt passages in the bible.
Also, since the serpent was just an animal, can it help being the “home” for Satan? Why did Jesus kill someone else's pigs when he cast out the demons? What right did he have in killing something that belonged to someone else?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 17 2008,04:46) Satan lied and opposed God saying that rebellion and eating of the fruit of that tree would not bring death to men.
Hi Nick,If eating the fruit is what brought death to men, what brought death to every other living thing on earth?
The trees die, the birds and butterflies die. Everything that is born must die. Did God punish all of his creation because of Adam?Tim
Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 17 2008,08:37) Is God the bible Nick? You seem to think so. God is spirit, I did not know He was written on paper. If so, your view of God is that He certainly corrupt as there asre many corrupt passages in the bible.
Hi KJ,
Are you saying that what you quote here you do so only to show errors?Or are you conflicting your ideas with the plan of God?
Hi tim4,
Perhaps because
17And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake;??
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 16 2008,16:05) Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 17 2008,08:37) Is God the bible Nick? You seem to think so. God is spirit, I did not know He was written on paper. If so, your view of God is that He certainly corrupt as there asre many corrupt passages in the bible.
Hi KJ,
Are you saying that what you quote here you do so only to show errors?Or are you conflicting your ideas with the plan of God?
How can anyone be certain it was in God's plan to only be God of one people and then later a different set of people? Seems to be a God who is indeed a respecter of persons.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 16 2008,16:08) Hi tim4,
Perhaps because
17And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake;??
Add that to the scenario: (1) God said “don't eat” (2) Adam and Eve did not know good and evil, so really had no concept of disobedience or obedience (3) one of God's creatures, who God called good implied that the fruit was OK to eat (4) God punished all of creation because Adam and Eve did something wrong even through they had no concept of right and wrong.Is that the same forgiving God we all know?
Quote (Not3in1 @ Feb. 16 2008,19:31) Quote (t8 @ Feb. 16 2008,09:06) Quote (Not3in1 @ Feb. 15 2008,20:08) Does the OT say the promised Messiah will be “without sin”? The NT says that Jesus was made just like his brothers in every way. Did they really mean he was made like his brothers in every way AND he was made not like us at all?
Adam wasn't made with sin. He was sinless.He was made with free will to sin or not.
Yeshua is the second Adam. The first Adam sinned and failed humanity because he sinned.
Now life is in Yeshua, not Adam.
All in Adam will die, all in Yeshua will live.
Sin leads to death and Yeshua represents the God of the living.
Thanks, t8.Adam wasn't made with sin. But the NT doesn't say Jesus was made like Adam in every way…..it says Jesus was made like his brother's in every way.
His brother's were born sinful.
Hi Not3:You you born sinful?
Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 16 2008,15:49) Here's the scenario: God made the animals, God made Adam and Eve. One of God's animals (as far as Eve knew) said the fruit was fine. Eve did not know evil, so it was easy for her to believe in the words spoken by a creature that God created. Then, Adam shares and God punishes them for believing one of God's creatures. There is some seriously faulty logic in this.
No KJ:God told them the consequences of eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, and so, they ate and suffered the consequence.
Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 17 2008,09:15) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 16 2008,16:05) Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 17 2008,08:37) Is God the bible Nick? You seem to think so. God is spirit, I did not know He was written on paper. If so, your view of God is that He certainly corrupt as there asre many corrupt passages in the bible.
Hi KJ,
Are you saying that what you quote here you do so only to show errors?Or are you conflicting your ideas with the plan of God?
How can anyone be certain it was in God's plan to only be God of one people and then later a different set of people? Seems to be a God who is indeed a respecter of persons.
Hi KJ:God through His people (Abraham's seed) calls mankind into a relationship with Him.
Quote Gen 21:12
And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called.The Nation of Israel are those who were striving to obey God in the OT under the Law, and those who are reconciled to God through gospel. The gospel is to be preached to every creature, and so, God is calling people who desire to be in a relationship with Him through the promised child the seed of Isaac. The blood of Jesus washed away all of the sins of those who were striving to obey God under the law and the sins of all of those who have come to Him with a repentant heart through Jesus in the NT.
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